No "L" Plates

mondeo · 01-07-2008 3:45pm

DarkJager wrote: »

And the reason I'm not legally "allowed" to use it, <SNIP>. So, putting aside my "legality" to drive a car, why should I bring massive extra expense on myself, when I've already paid the 38 quid and haven't yet recieved the service I've purchased???

You dont have to have added expense on yourself, get a friend or a relative on a tempory basis to take over your finace payments on your car and allow them to drive it/insure it until you can drive it yourself... Meanwhile buy a cheap 50cc scooter, any crappy scooter as long as it runs and that will sort your problems out for the said period. Thats exactly what I would do....And it would not bother me at all. I had a scooter before, easy as a push bike to ride and you never know you might even like it.

NullZer0 · 01-07-2008 4:04pm

+69

JP Liz · 01-07-2008 4:46pm

Provisional licence holders face lone travel fine

Second provisional licence holders caught on the roads without a qualified driver now face being hit with a fine of at least €1,000.

Previously, first, third and subsequent provisional licence holders had to be accompanied at all times but it did not apply to those with a second learners permit.

The loophole closed at midnight and the Road Safety Authority (RSA) said it expects gardaí to enforce the new law which affects some 92,000 drivers.

Many learners claim they will flout the new rule complaining it is unfair in the face of still lengthy waiting times for driving tests and poor public transport.

All learners will now have to be accompanied by a qualified driver who has held a licence for at least two years.

A garda spokesman said the law would be enforced “appropriately and proportionately”.

The impending crackdown has led to scores of learners applying for their test and the average waiting time has now been cut to 7.7 weeks, the spokesman said.

lie

Wishbone Ash · 01-07-2008 5:09pm

JP Liz wrote: »

lie

Why bother providing the information then?

Snakeblood · 01-07-2008 5:39pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Why bother providing the information then?

If I wanted people to believe there were no problems and everything was going fine, I'd tell people that there were no problems and everything was going fine. I'd probably cherrypick statistics to make me look better.

I'm not sayingthat's what they're doing, but it's certainly a good reason to provide a statistic.

Wishbone Ash · 01-07-2008 5:41pm

Snakeblood wrote: »

If I wanted people to believe there were no problems and everything was going fine, I'd tell people that there were no problems and everything was going fine. I'd probably cherrypick statistics to make me look better.

I'm not sayingthat's what they're doing, but it's certainly a good reason to provide a statistic.

I meant why did JP Liz bother providing the information if he/she thinks it's a lie!

invincibleirish · 01-07-2008 6:27pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I meant why did JP Liz bother providing the information if he/she thinks it's a lie!

Because it is a lie, across the media the past few days all that is being heard is the RSA telling us all that the test centre have been cut to an average of 7 Weeks and even lower in some areas(only 5 weeks in Birr, shame i live 150 miles away:rolleyes:), so its oh so easy to apply and do the test.

My centre in Cork is officially 10 weeks, however i applied in early April for my test and am getting it at the end of July, thats nearly 4 months, above 7 weeks, above 10 weeks so the <SNIP>

I applied for a test well before todays deadline yet still face 3 weeks driving under threat of fine. Thank god im not the only one ignoring that threat.

Mr. Presentable · 01-07-2008 6:45pm

invincibleirish wrote: »

I applied for a test well before todays deadline yet still face 3 weeks driving under threat of fine. Thank god im not the only one ignoring that threat.

Yeah, but the deadline was for having passed the test. If you are completely honest you left it until the last minute - hardly the RSA's fault.

Wishbone Ash · 01-07-2008 6:50pm

invincibleirish wrote: »

Because it is a lie, across the media the past few days all that is being heard is the RSA telling us all that the test centre have been cut to an average of 7 Weeks and even lower in some areas(only 5 weeks in Birr, shame i live 150 miles away:rolleyes:), so its oh so easy to apply and do the test.

My centre in Cork is officially 10 weeks, however i applied in early April for my test and am getting it at the end of July, thats nearly 4 months, above 7 weeks, above 10 weeks so the <SNIP>

I applied for a test well before todays deadline yet still face 3 weeks driving under threat of fine. Thank god im not the only one ignoring that threat.

As has been said ad nauseum, the figures given are averages.

When did you obtain your Provisional Licence/Learner Permit?

Yakult · 01-07-2008 7:00pm

I cant sit my test for another 3 months but Im book it this month because of the waiting times!

bigpinkelephant · 01-07-2008 7:01pm

DarkJager wrote: »

2nd provisional, failed 1st test and re-applied in early April...still no test date recieved. The world doesn't owe me a living at all, but I'll be damned if I'm going to let the slackness of the RSA impact me financially. Its stressful having to bend their new rules like this already, but I have no other option until I get my test date.

It seems like it is actually your lack of driving skills that leaving you with "no other option" rather than the RSA...

Alanstrainor · 01-07-2008 7:29pm

bigpinkelephant wrote: »

It seems like it is actually your lack of driving skills that leaving you with "no other option" rather than the RSA...

Careful now. Try to keep comments about people who have failed tests to yourself.

Cheeky_gal · 01-07-2008 7:36pm

iRock wrote: »

How dya like those apples?

It's..."how dja like THEM apples?"

Ughh !!!

NullZer0 · 01-07-2008 7:53pm

Thats actually exactly what it said... but I came back with an edit!

Lol

bigpinkelephant · 01-07-2008 8:11pm

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Careful now. Try to keep comments about people who have failed tests to yourself.

There are countless posts on this forum from people who have failed their tests and will blame EVERYONE but themselves.

"It's all a Revenue scam"

"It's the instructor's fault"

"It's the RSA's fault"

At the end of the day people should not be taking jobs if they cannot legally get to them.

dr.bollocko · 01-07-2008 8:13pm

That's kinda unhelpful really. At least think of the actual problem for people who were able to drive unaccompanied who now can't.
Its a good step towards better road safety, but for the interim group who are left in no man's land, its a total balls.

Wishbone Ash · 01-07-2008 8:26pm

dr.bollocko wrote: »

for the interim group who are left in no man's land, its a total balls.

They had 8 months notice (after about 20 years of discussions) about changing the 2nd Provisional Rule.

When Minister Demsey made the announcements last November there was mayhem on this Forum. At one stage there were 43 threads on the subject at one time (many having been moved from Motors, Commuting and Transport, After Hours, Regional Forums etc.) I spent hours and hours moderating them (I was on my own then).

It was common knowledge that the Regulations for the 2nd Provisional Licence holders would come in today and the general advice given then was that these people should apply for a test as soon as possible. (They should have done it long before that anyway). We now find, in true Irish style, that many of these learners left it to the last couple of months to apply and, now that the reality has set in, they convieniently blame everyone else but themselves.

If the Minister had granted a further dispensation for six months, I can guarantee you that we would be having the same discussions in January.

Alanstrainor · 01-07-2008 8:26pm

bigpinkelephant wrote: »

There are countless posts on this forum from people who have failed their tests and will blame EVERYONE but themselves.

"It's all a Revenue scam"

"It's the instructor's fault"

"It's the RSA's fault"

At the end of the day people should not be taking jobs if they cannot legally get to them.

That is besides the point.
From the charter.

No degrading comments to posters who have failed a test

adrian522 · 01-07-2008 8:35pm

I'm a learner and broadly in favour with loophole in the law being closed.
I think the government should in time go further and ensure that learners can only drive with a qualified instructor.

My problem with a lot of the discussion on here is that there are far too many people having a go at learner because they feel all learners are terrible drivers.

This is the learning to drive fourum, everone on here is either learning to drive and looking for good advice or a good driver willing to dispense good advice.

There have been far too many disparaging comments aimed at people who come on here looking for advice etc and are put down with comments that are completly unhelpful.

If you don't have anything constructive to add then please keep it to yourself...

dr.bollocko · 01-07-2008 8:36pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

They had 8 months notice (after about 20 years of discussions) about changing the 2nd Provisional Rule.

When Minister Demsey made the announcements last November there was mayhem on this Forum. At one stage there were 43 threads on the subject at one time (many having been moved from Motors, Commuting and Transport, After Hours, Regional Forums etc.) I spent hours and hours moderating them (I was on my own then).

It was common knowledge that the Regulations for the 2nd Provisional Licence holders would come in today and the general advice given then was that these people should apply for a test as soon as possible. (They should have done it long before that anyway). We now find, in true Irish style, that many of these learners left it to the last couple of months to apply and, now that the reality has set in, they convieniently blame everyone else but themselves.

If the Minister had granted a further dispensation for six months, I can guarantee you that we would be having the same discussions in January.

I can understand that.
But for everyone who left it to the last minute, there is another person who only got a car recently and are now left with a bit of a catch 22. Its hard to afford 35 quid a lesson to learn to drive, but without a lot of lessons, how are you going to get the road time to be a confident, aware and good driver? (And why are you driving alone if you arent is the obvious counterpoint and why we need this law enforced)
I am all for the reforms. But I think more could be done to accommodate getting learners off of the road by getting them licences.
I dunno.
maybe a dispensation who have proven responsibilities in the car (other dependants, a great distance to travel to work etc.) so long as a test is applied for, and as I said, on a company level, some car-pooling, a driver's ed program, or the possibility of subsidised lessons for learners stuck in the middle because of the new laws, which, by the way, I agree with.
I take your point though.

Snakeblood · 01-07-2008 8:44pm

dr.bollocko wrote: »

I can understand that.
But for everyone who left it to the last minute, there is another person who only got a car recently and are now left with a bit of a catch 22. Its hard to afford 35 quid a lesson to learn to drive, but without a lot of lessons, how are you going to get the road time to be a confident, aware and good driver? (And why are you driving alone if you arent is the obvious counterpoint and why we need this law enforced)
I am all for the reforms. But I think more could be done to accommodate getting learners off of the road by getting them licences.
I dunno.
maybe a dispensation who have proven responsibilities in the car (other dependants, a great distance to travel to work etc.) so long as a test is applied for, and as I said, on a company level, some car-pooling, a driver's ed program, or the possibility of subsidised lessons for learners stuck in the middle because of the new laws, which, by the way, I agree with.
I take your point though.

I agree with this wholeheartedly, the new enforcement is long overdue, but it's causing me personally a monumental pain in the hole, and long term, the govt. should look at training drivers in schools, like the US, and improving the infrastructure so that those who don't have cars available can use buses, trains or whatnot.

Stark · 01-07-2008 8:53pm

dr.bollocko wrote:

Its hard to afford 35 quid a lesson to learn to drive, but without a lot of lessons, how are you going to get the road time to be a confident, aware and good driver? (And why are you driving alone if you arent is the obvious counterpoint and why we need this law enforced)

It's also hard to afford tax, insurance, car, petrol etc. People need to live with the fact that driving is an expensive activity.

adrian522 wrote:

My problem with a lot of the discussion on here is that there are far too many people having a go at learner because they feel all learners are terrible drivers.

It isn't about "having a go at a learner". It's about not pandering to those people who did nothing to help themselves in regards to getting a license/finding alternative arrangements and now expect the whole of Ireland to bend over to suit them.

dr.bollocko wrote:

or the possibility of subsidised lessons for learners stuck in the middle because of the new laws, which, by the way, I agree with.

Since when should the taxpayer have to subsidise someone to drive? All these people who have responsibilities have had plenty of time to get their act together and do a driving test. Some people have been driving on provisionals for decades.

dr.bollocko · 01-07-2008 9:07pm

Nah man not the tax payer. Like for example if companys started running programs to subsidise lessons for those learning to drive if they need to do so for work. When I was working in Oz I heard of a few companies doing this. Particularly in support, where people would need to go from site to site from time to time to fix and maintain things.
**** that. My taxes aint paying to help someone to learn to drive except in the context of a secondary school program.

dr.bollocko · 01-07-2008 9:13pm

Im just saying I can see all points of view on this one. I have more than once thought "****in' learners!" when I saw some appalling driving from an unaccompanied learner. I have also been on the other side and been that awful driver (though not unaccompanied)
I think the laws are a good thing. I think more should be done. I think we should be tested on snow driving, motorway driving, made get at least 20 lessons from a certified pro and complete a tougher written exam. That would be nice to see in the long run but I know that for a few learner drivers that are competent and applying for a test it must be a shocker to have the freedom that comes with a car taken away all of a sudden.
Its no matter though. All that will be ironed out within 6 months. This is a transition and by nature, problematic for all parties.

Hagar · 01-07-2008 9:21pm

Learner drivers driving unaccompanied have not been acceptable in any other developed country. It's about time Ireland stepped up to the mark and did the right thing. We were a laughing stock because of it and we accepted it. We even allowed the Insurance companies to use it as leverage to justify scandalous rates for the last 20 years. Let's grow up and face the fact that learners are inexperienced and shouldn't be out alone. Let's then let's demand proper insurance rates from those corporate chancers.

dr.bollocko · 01-07-2008 9:32pm

I would love to see insurers insuring the driver, rather than the car.
I mean it shouldnt be ridiculously expensive for me to have a 2.0litre car if I want to, even if it is modified, or a performance car. they drive great, sound lovely, and not everyone driving them is a 17 year old high on coke with a deathwish.

Yakult · 01-07-2008 9:53pm

Stark wrote: »

It isn't about "having a go at a learner". It's about not pandering to those people who did nothing to help themselves in regards to getting a license/finding alternative arrangements and now expect the whole of Ireland to bend over to suit them.

What about people who got learner permits in March/april/May etc.?
Suppose they are at fault too ya? :rolleyes:

Snakeblood · 01-07-2008 10:03pm

Stark wrote: »

It isn't about "having a go at a learner". It's about not pandering to those people who did nothing to help themselves in regards to getting a license/finding alternative arrangements and now expect the whole of Ireland to bend over to suit them.

You could always not say anything to them, seeing as they are in a learn to drive forum talking about learning to drive, and you aren't actually telling them anything even remotely constructive by criticising them. Do you think people will suddenly realise the error of their ways if you keep giving them <SNIP>?

Stark · 01-07-2008 10:08pm

R H C P wrote:

What about people who got learner permits in March/april/May etc.?
Suppose they are at fault too ya? :rolleyes:

They're still learning to drive so they shouldn't be driving unaccompanied. If they are getting lessons/driving accompanied, then all the best to them and they can post looking for all the advice they want.

studiorat · 01-07-2008 10:08pm

I'm allowed ride a motorbike that'll do 120mph not that I would ever. I've gone for my car test twice and both times been unable to sit it 1st time because the Insurance Disc sent to me the day before had the reg number from my old car on it. The second time was due to illness. I've been waiting 3 months at this stage for a third test still no sign of a test date.

I've had a car for nearly 3 years now, no problems ever. I've 10 years experience on the open road and now I can't drive my car unaccompanied. WTF?

No "L" Plates

Comments