No "L" Plates

Alanstrainor

Right lads, I'll have to bring out the banning stick for people swearing on this forum, i have said it numerous times in the last couple of days and yet it continues. It's not called for or needed on this forum. I understand people are getting hot under the collar about a lot of these topics, just try and keep things civil.

Wishbone Ash

ExoduS 18.11 wrote: »

The fact that someone could have passed there test three days ago , and suddenly is a competent driver is bull****.

The driver has demonstrated their competency during the test. It doesn't necessarily make them a competent driver afterwards but isn't it a better indicator than someone who hasn't demonstrated their potential in a test.

Your analogy would suggest that 3rd level instututions shouldn't accept Leaving certificate results as it only indicates the pupil's ability on the day they sat their examinations.

ExoduS 18.11 wrote:

]The reason i think this is because in that very law, it states that a competent driver to accompany a learner is one who has two years experience. A contradiction in itself.

The regulations stipulate that the accompanying driver must hold a full licence in the category in question and must have held that licence for at least 2 years. I don't think the word 'competent' is used at all.

ExoduS 18.11 wrote:

This new "he drives, she dies" campaign makes me sick also.

That's good. It shows it's working.

ExoduS 18.11

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The driver has demonstrated their competency during the test. It doesn't necessarily make them a competent driver afterwards but isn't it a better indicator than someone who hasn't demonstrated their potential in a test.

Give me a test tommorrow and i will show you how competent i am. O wait you cant, i have to wait weeks, (I'm on 4 atm and still no sign). I work long hours at night, my mother/father will not be sitting in the car park of my place of work waiting for me so i can safely drive home. I live in a rural town by the way.

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Your analogy would suggest that 3rd level instututions shouldn't accept Leaving certificate results as it only indicates the pupil's ability on the day they sat their examinations.

Hmm well unlike driving, i dont practise chemistry, art, irish, High level mathematics or physics in everyday situations. Although I'm sure if you've been to college you know that assessment does occur down the line, unlike the driving system which is a once off and away you go.

The regulations stipulate that the accompanying driver must hold a full licence in the category in question and must have held that licence for at least 2 years. I don't think the word 'competent' is used at all.

Why does he/she have to have it for 2 years then? Im sure there is a reason for the 2 year wait? In my opinion its because the RSA believe that a safe driver is one that has 2 years experience after passing there test.

That's good. It shows it's working.

Weak enough arguement there i must say, its meant to people feel sick and be put into a huge generalisation? mission accomplished
I propose a new slogan actually. "Anyone who is a bad driver, regardless of gender, age or experience on the road crashes his/her car, there is a chance the passenger regardless of gender or age might die." has a nice ring to it doesnt it.

Mod -> Apologies for the previous post from me

Alanstrainor

ExoduS 18.11 wrote: »

Give me a test tomorrow and i will show you how competent i am. O wait you cant, i have to wait weeks, (I'm on 4 atm and still no sign). I work long hours at night, my mother/father will not be sitting in the car park of my place of work waiting for me so i can safely drive home. I live in a rural town by the way.

Your circumstances are unfortunate but what do you expect to happen? An amnesty to people living rurally? The RSA have achieved a huge feat in reducing the waiting times to what they are, considering the situation a couple of years ago. I know people are disputing this but i have had family members apply and receive a test in 5 weeks in Dublin, Churchtown to be precise. So there is truth behind these Average figures.

ExoduS 18.11 wrote: »

Hmm well unlike driving, i dont practise chemistry, art, irish, High level mathematics or physics in everyday situations. Although I'm sure if you've been to college you know that assessment does occur down the line, unlike the driving system which is a once off and away you go.

I'm not too sure what your point is, both school/driving come down to a test, which you have to pass to get your qualification/license. It was a fair response to a flawed analogy.

ExoduS 18.11 wrote: »

Why does he/she have to have it for 2 years then? Im sure there is a reason for the 2 year wait? In my opinion its because the RSA believe that a safe driver is one that has 2 years experience after passing there test.

It's been said before, but i'll say it again, passing your test is only the beginning of your learning. All you have done is shown that you are competent at driving under very limited circumstances, not that you are a good driver. The 2 years gives the fully licensed driver time to progress with his/her driving.

ExoduS 18.11 wrote: »

Mod -> Apologies for the previous post from me

No worries,

ExoduS 18.11

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Your circumstances are unfortunate but what do you expect to happen? An amnesty to people living rurally? The RSA have achieved a huge feat in reducing the waiting times to what they are, considering the situation a couple of years ago. I know people are disputing this but i have had family members apply and receive a test in 5 weeks in Dublin, Churchtown to be precise. So there is truth behind these Average figures.

Well if i lived near churchtown in dublin maybe i might be luckier and have my test done now but i dont. Its putting alot of people under pressure, especially in rural areas, due to the lack of transport infrastructure put in place in these areas. Its a law which has been put in place without full investigation of everyone who has a provisional licence. What about a single mother going to work on a provisional? It isnt just young people which are affected. And in my opinion, if the majority were old drivers who had provisional licences, such a law would not be passed.
Im not going to give the RSA any credit for something that has only been done because pressure was put on them.

I'm not too sure what your point is, both school/driving come down to a test, which you have to pass to get your qualification/license. It was a fair response to a flawed analogy.

I was responding to a statement made in the post. How is it flawed? If you go to a third level institute you are tested throughout your stay and are not allowed procede through years without a certain level of knowledge about your course. If i passed my driving test today, does that mean i am a safe driver for ever more? A poster in the first few pages, said that testing every ten years was a terrible idea because you pick up habits through experience which could fail you. The reason these could fail you is because they are dangerous habits?

It's been said before, but i'll say it again, passing your test is only the beginning of your learning. All you have done is shown that you are competent at driving under very limited circumstances, not that you are a good driver. The 2 years gives the fully licensed driver time to progress with his/her driving.

Ok , two years gives you time to progress with your driving. Agreed. Why should a person who passes the test and has no little experience be given the stamp of approval ?

xIsabelx

I am so incredibly bummed about what happened to me during my driving test the other day (June 30th, in fact!)

I posted it here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=56440479#post56440479


I had to reapply for my test again yesterday so unfortunately, my bad luck has put me on a setback now for another 4-5 weeks. I was out an about Greystones with my L plates up on the car yesterday and all on my own. Didn't see one garda car anywhere.

But that's not to say I'll get away with it. It's a pain in the ass for me, just because there is no other possible way for me to get to work, I need to drive. The buses just don't tie in with my hours.



The worst thing about this law is, that it put everyone under huge pressure to try and get their test, so people applied quickly. People who might not have been ready yet. So, because they weren't ready, they failed. Back to square one. It's just such a **** buzz

DjDangerousDave

xIsabelx wrote: »

I am so incredibly bummed about what happened to me during my driving test the other day (June 30th, in fact!)

I posted it here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=56440479#post56440479


I had to reapply for my test again yesterday so unfortunately, my bad luck has put me on a setback now for another 4-5 weeks. I was out an about Greystones with my L plates up on the car yesterday and all on my own. Didn't see one garda car anywhere.

But that's not to say I'll get away with it. It's a pain in the ass for me, just because there is no other possible way for me to get to work, I need to drive. The buses just don't tie in with my hours.



The worst thing about this law is, that it put everyone under huge pressure to try and get their test, so people applied quickly. People who might not have been ready yet. So, because they weren't ready, they failed. Back to square one. It's just such a **** buzz

That really is hard luck, but hopefully you will pass the next time. Do try to have someone with you from now on as much as you can though.

Off topic: Do you drive a nissan micra? Cos the same thing happened to my break lights once.

xIsabelx

DjDangerousDave wrote: »

That really is hard luck, but hopefully you will pass the next time. Do try to have someone with you from now on as much as you can though.

Off topic: Do you drive a nissan micra? Cos the same thing happened to my break lights once.

Yeah, I don't have €1,000 in my pocket at the moment

Nope, I drive a Citroen ZX. My dad rang up the Mechanic about it and he said that the exact same thing happened to his son on the day of his test. (except it was in a different type of car) He thinks it wasn't the bulbs, but the actual switch is gone.

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

It's quite a simple procedure and it doesn't freak everyone out. Some of us had to do it with a 45ft trailer.


It can also be practised over and over again unlike unexpected parts of the test.

Exactly. When I tried reversing around the corner the first few times, I was awful at it. I thought I'd never get the hang of it. But it really is just down to practice, now I'm deadly at it. :cool:

lad12

I have read a lot of the posts and I hate to see all these people who have a full license posting comments to Learner Drivers saying they shouldn’t be breaking the Law when nearly everyone in this country who has a full license drove around on their own on a provisional license for years before doing their Test...Bunch of Hypocrites!!

Yakult

^well they are saying it for L drivers own good. No one wants to see 1000euro been thrown away.

I just dont like the way a few will go "Oh I hope you get caught because you deserve it". Thats immature. (yes just like law breaking). swearing they were godly figures in our community.

Unfortunly I will be breaking it tomoro, seen as the only full liecenced driver I can get is driving over a year, not 2 years. But I have tax/insurence/nct and L plates up so IF I get caught fingers crossed they wont be harsh on me.

mumhaabu

Zamboni wrote: »

I work with 5 girls, all of whom are on provisionals and have no intention of stopping driving. All the L plates are gone and I've heard every excuse under the sun from them.

The government are <SNIP>.
I have a right to drive.
They didn't give enough notice.
I am a great driver and I failed because the tester was a <SNIP>.
I won't pay the fine.

Oh man that was one of the best laughs I had in ages :pac:

The government are <SNIP>.
The Government are terrible, yes I agree, however we voted them in and we have to abide by the law otherwise society would collapse.

I have a right to drive.
Nobody has a right to drive, driving is a privilege, which can be taken away at anytime if you do not adhere to the associated rules.

I am a great driver and I failed because the tester was a <SNIP>.
Usually those who consider themselves "great drivers" are actually the worst. Driving is a life long experience and everyone should be learning from the small little snags we encounter everyday and be more proactive towards our driving. Testers have a stressful enough job without blaming them for it, but then again it is "always some else's fault" are these women teenagers Zamboni? Because that was a pretty immature comment out of them, (which I have heard before).

I won't pay the fine
Hi ho, hi ho, tis off to Jail you go

Zamboni wrote: »

Get over it people. Plenty of time to get your act together.

QFT!

I can't believe this thread, oh tis shocking! off the roadzz like omg! People had like 8 months. I think the real failing here was that Dempsey hadn't a bit of neck and implement the legislation straight away. Most of the drivers that are moaning had sufficient time to take lessons and apply for a driving test and get one before July 1st, regardless of waiting times, and in fairness alot did and passed.

I have no pity and hope plenty are caught, the system is very fair as it is a fixed penalty even though it is €1000 for driving alone and €1000 for no "L" plates, otherwise you could face a criminal record. I'd make it €1,500 if I was in charge, (nice little side earner in these recession ridden times). And if you are caught take it on the chin like a man and chalk it down to experience.

Driver safety is paramount, and the fact is alot of "L" plate drivers are unsafe. I regularly make a stop (If I can get a parking space outside the newsagents) at a busy junction and I counted 52 commuters last week in the space of 20mins with "L"'s the majority of these were in their late teens or early twenties in the ubiquitous Micras, Toyotas etc. I counted 11 today and recognised at least ten or 15 without the famous red and white L.

As a person who worked hard to buy a car and earn the respect of society not a mind what I pay in taxes it sickened me to see such disrespect for other road users and it seems that unless this is enforced (which I hope it is with an Iron fist) that it will be the same old Irish "chance it" "shur till be grand" mentality.

This new legislation needs enforcement and what is needed is to equip every Irish police car with ANPR (Automatic Number Plate Recognition) which sees a computer scan your number plate and flag it if it has outstanding tax, no insurance, NCT or if the registered keeper or insured named drivers is on a Provisional Learners Permit.

I also am in favour of restricting drivers who pass to "R" plates as they do in Australia, which wouldn't be long putting the clamps on some of the Boy Racers who think they a have a right to go mental once they get the pink paper. One false move during a period of two years and you should be made resit the driving and theory test. This mentality is very prevalent in Donegal and Border Counties where grey imports, like Subarus and Hondas have led many a young person to their grave.

sonicthebadger*

crapmanjoe wrote: »

I know they can impound the car if there is no tax on it but dont see how they can impound it cause your mate has no L plates, the car i assume was road worthy and had up2date tax/insurance/nct

Hell even when you get pulled over for drink driving they have no right to impound your car or even keep you locked in the cell (unless ur so drunk your a danger to yourself) so to do it for no L- Plates is absolute rubbish

They can't really leave the car on the side of the road though. It has to go somewhere. I think you have to go to court to lose your license for drink driving so you can drive till your court date. Thus getting the car home while you still have a license.

donhughberto wrote: »

I applied for 3 tests so i might get them all around the same time. I would be happy to do them back to back if i failed one . I don't know if anybody else has booked more than one at a time?

I asked them if it was worth doing that, they told me your second application doesn't enter the system until you've done your first test so it doesn't speed things up.

Noopti wrote: »

Mainly because almost everyone would fail (due to the test being so anal about small habitual things that people just pick up when they are are driving longer).

Not true. The test is very easy... if you can drive. I passed 7 years ago for the car and recently sat the motorbike test and got a clean sheet. The small things make people better drivers.

Noopti wrote: »

And what exactly would these lessons teach the driver who say, has been driving for 20 years?
Instructor: "That is your clutch, and this is how you change gears"
Driver: "I know, I have been driving for 20 years"
Instructor: "When you enter a roundabout, be sure to indicate appropriately"

If that's all you think driving is you either don't drive or should not be driving.

Alanstrainor wrote: »

The test covers the basics of driving, such as basic manoeuvring and general driving, how else would you expect to modify the test to be more like every day driving?

As mentioned before, in agreement with this point. The test is easy, and there's more to driving safely than being able to pass it.

DRice wrote: »

they could remove the stupid reverse around the corner thing, that freaks everyone out

and get away from the ridiculous exaggerated checking of mirrors every 15 seconds that I actually think is quite dangerous and freaks me out even more.

1.Parking?

2.Finding out that the emergency services are coming up behind you at speed? You need to be fully aware of everything going on around you at all times.

lad12 wrote: »

I have read a lot of the posts and I hate to see all these people who have a full license posting comments to Learner Drivers saying they shouldn’t be breaking the Law when nearly everyone in this country who has a full license drove around on their own on a provisional license for years before doing their Test...Bunch of Hypocrites!!

When I was learning to drive the law was not enforced for first prov and not in for second prov. So yes I'm a hypocrite... and so are you for not obeying the laws that'll come in in 7 years time.

Or perhaps not.

ardmacha

ts a law which has been put in place without full investigation of everyone who has a provisional licence.

Of course, laws should proceed after full investigation of all citizens, and an individual law should be drawn up for each person. Personally I am hoping to be allowed drive at 52.4kmh in urban areas, and I think my sister should be allowed do 54.6kmh.

"Oh I hope you get caught because you deserve it"

Yes, you will deserve it. But the roads will also be safer.

Thats immature. (yes just like law breaking). swearing they were godly figures in our community.

What, exactly, is the point of laws if anti-social elements can just ignore them? What, exactly, is immature about expecting people to obey laws enacted for the public good by a democratic government?

wil

lad12 wrote: »

I have read a lot of the posts and I hate to see all these people who have a full license posting comments to Learner Drivers saying they shouldn’t be breaking the Law when nearly everyone in this country who has a full license drove around on their own on a provisional license for years before doing their Test...Bunch of Hypocrites!!

There is so much nonsense in this thread that it seems a shame to pick out any particular post, but wahay, after sticking a pin in my screen, why not this.
First off, I never even owned a car before passing my test, let alone drive unaccompanied. And it took me very little time to learn, and I had very little money for lessons, but it was a wise investment.

To address the rest of the gripes.

It's mostly about attitude. I am quite delighted if there is a seachange in attitude, the previous one being so appallingly blase and lax that it lead us to this ultimate scenario.

It is not unlike the smoking ban. Smokers eventually thought they were the law and so decided where the rest of us got the chance to breathe their once enjoyed smoke for the second time. It took an outright and sudden ban to make people realise that we dont have to accept something that is essentially wrong just because it suits some people.
And now, very few would like to go back, even smokers.

Driving unrestricted without a licence is essentially wrong. The fact that people have been doing so is exploiting a situation that shouldnt exist.
But it was the easy and often lazy option.

To continue the education analogy, it's a bit like going to university or even becoming a doctor without ever even doing your Junior Cert let alone Leaving Cert. You may be a genius, but don't you need qualifications to get in to these.
It could be said that regarding driving it is even more important. Not passing your Junior cert is unlikely to be a factor in your sudden death or traumatic injury, or worse, your effect on other lives that you dont even know.

Driving is a skill you are likely to use for most of the rest of your life unlike integration, the modh choinnealach or medieval history.
Yet it is treated here as an automatic right, qualification is just an afterthought, something you might get around to.

Well the eventually is coming to pass, and not remotely suddenly as some so farcically put it. How gradual do they want? 20 years would still have some pi$sing and moaning.

Wake up. As attitudes change and more people realise the rules are intended for everyones good, then slowly a more responsible attitude will trickle down and the roads will become safer for everyone.
I might even rediscover the joys of motoring.

Yakult

ardmacha wrote: »

Yes, you will deserve it. But the roads will also be safer.

encoraging words of wisdom there. Tell me something that hasnt been said and said over and over again. and I love hearing that statistic. Please point me to the source of your statistic where I see "These drivers killed were L drivers" in black and white, and not "19yo Male". Unless I keep mis-reading these reports.

Not all L drivers are bad drivers, infact a majority are better. Dont take risks, obey speed limits, no dangerous over taking etc. You'll be happy to know its people who are on their full liecence's driving behind a L driver who seem to be in a hurry to get no where and will take risks to get past that car.

Im not arguing the roads will be safer, because its a statistic thats extreamly debatable, many many more sides to stories and has been done many a times. I just thought I would tell you that before you get into your mind thats its all L drivers. and I bet you the roads will be as unsafe as they always were with or without L drivers.

ardmacha wrote: »

What, exactly, is the point of laws if anti-social elements can just ignore them? What, exactly, is immature about expecting people to obey laws enacted for the public good by a democratic government?

I didnt say it was immature for people to obey the law, I just love the way some peoples attitudes on here are. :rolleyes: C
an you tell me when you were on a provisional liecence that you always had a full liecenced driver with you? Correct me if Im wrong, thats always been the law, the government has just tolerated it for many years.

sonicthebadger*

R_H_C_P wrote: »

encoraging words of wisdom there. Tell me something that hasnt been said and said over and over again. and I love hearing that statistic. Please point me to the source of your statistic where I see "These drivers killed were L drivers" in black and white, and not "19yo Male". Unless I keep mis-reading these reports.

Link to stats to support "19yo Male" comment?

dr.bollocko

I think its time for thread closure before we get a rift here on the Learning to drive forum.
All questions about it have been answered, as regards the laws etc. We have a pretty clear viewpoint of the argument of those who feel hard done by and those who appreciate the new laws, it seems its just going around in circles now creating animosity.

Stark

sonicthebadger wrote:

I asked them if it was worth doing that, they told me your second application doesn't enter the system until you've done your first test so it doesn't speed things up.

I think they were lying to you

donhughberto

Stark wrote: »

I think they were lying to you

+1

I have one with a date in early August, seven weeks after last test fail, happy with that. I have 2 more i made a week or so after but got confirmation letters but no date. I know a guy who got two in one week, hence me trying my luck.

I don't mind failing and paying €38 euros again but i can't accept waiting another 7-10 weeks min for another test.

sonicthebadger*

Stark wrote: »

I think they were lying to you

She told me they had gullible taken out of the dictionary too! Imagine, just taking a word out of the dictionary like that.

You could be right :pac:

--amadeus--

With all due respect applying for multiple tests is not the best thing in the world to be doing.

There was a link posted on here somewhere that said that (IIRC) 1 in 5 test subjects were no shows. I'm willing to bet that a lot of those were people who applied for multiple tests, passed one and didn't bother cancelling the others. And having the same person in line at multiple test centres means that they cannot hand out dates / slots to genuine cases - here are so many "virtual" people in the queue that there's reduced room for the real ones.

Applying for more than one test screws up the system, you're making the bad situation that you are trying to avoid by applying more than once worse.

donhughberto

--amadeus-- wrote: »

With all due respect applying for multiple tests is not the best thing in the world to be doing.

There was a link posted on here somewhere that said that (IIRC) 1 in 5 test subjects were no shows. I'm willing to bet that a lot of those were people who applied for multiple tests, passed one and didn't bother cancelling the others. And having the same person in line at multiple test centres means that they cannot hand out dates / slots to genuine cases - here are so many "virtual" people in the queue that there's reduced room for the real ones.

Applying for more than one test screws up the system, you're making the bad situation that you are trying to avoid by applying more than once worse.

I think its called looking out for self interests but you are right off course

gaeilgegrinds

Neighbour is Galway was fined lastnight over no L-plates & being unaccomplanied. Has to go into station today. Never thought they'd do it but they did.

DarkJager

gaeilgegrinds wrote: »

Neighbour is Galway was fined lastnight over no L-plates & being unaccomplanied. Has to go into station today. Never thought they'd do it but they did.

What did he expect driving around with no L plates? Thats probably why he got slapped with the fine.

dr.bollocko

So was it the minimum 100 euro fine?
Hard luck to the guy.

NullZer0

I'm sorry but are you reading this thread at all?

NullZer0

dr.bollocko wrote: »

So was it the minimum 100 euro fine?
Hard luck to the guy.

Im sorry but are you reading this thread at all? :mad:

dr.bollocko

**** meant 1000 euro. its 1000 euro right?
Ok so i left out a zero.
Sue me.

dr.bollocko

iRock wrote: »

Im sorry but are you reading this thread at all? :mad:

Well? A sulky little double response to a poster forgetting a zero dont you think? Have you been reading this thread? I have contributed for a good number of pages. Go take out your frustration by prank calling the RSA or something.

DarkJager

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Well? A sulky little double response to a poster forgetting a zero dont you think? Have you been reading this thread? I have contributed for a good number of pages. Go take out your frustration by prank calling the RSA or something.

If he can get through to them!