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Avoidant personality disorder.
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30-06-2008 4:47pm#1Hi. I decided to post this thread primarily to raise awareness of a little known condition called Avoidant personality disorder. I myself have been diagnosed as an avoidant. Now, from my experience there is little to no awareness nor resources for people afflicted with this often crippling mental illness in Ireland. Therefore I just want to gauge the level of awareness of A.V.P.D. on this site and if possible try to answer some questions , if any, that you my have. Here is the wiki article and a list of symptoms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avoidant_personality_disorder
People with avoidant personality disorder are preoccupied with their own shortcomings and form relationships with others only if they believe they will not be rejected. Loss and rejection are so painful that these individuals will choose to be lonely rather than risk trying to connect with others.- Hypersensitivity to criticism or rejection
- Self-imposed social isolation
- Extreme shyness in social situations, though feels a strong desire for close relationships[6]
- Avoids interpersonal relationships
- Aversion to physical contact
- Feelings of inadequacy
- Severe low self-esteem
- Self loathing
- Mistrust of others
- Extreme shyness/timidity
- Emotional distancing related to intimacy
- Highly self-conscious
- Self-critical about their problems relating to others
- Problems in occupational functioning
- Lonely self-perception
- Feeling inferior to others
- Chronic substance abuse/dependence[7]
- Investment in fixed fantasies
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Comments
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I'd love some more info as I've long suspected I suffer from this. At what point does it become a 'disorder' though? My BF and family scoff at the idea it's some sort of disorder and say I'm just a bit shy and antisocial, but most of the points on that list apply to me.0
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I too would like more information or for awareness to be raised, as I have a family member who could possibly have it. There does not seem to be much awareness out there on it.
OP, if you don't mind answering, can you tell me a bit more about what options are out there for treatment?0 -
I think I might have that, I have never been to see a doctor or anything and just basically put it down to Social Anxiety, but the symptoms seem to fit me more, I can relate to every one infact0
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you guys should get yourselves to Recovery Self Help meetings. (check out
http://www.recovery-inc.com/) a weekly meeting directed at tackling nervous symptons. Its cheaper then doctors, weekly and it actually works.
it does require alot of effort, discomfort bearing and a will to change alot of old habits and beliefs, but it's worth every bit of it. you will find that most people there experienced the symptons mentioned prior to starting recovery.
You will also have to appreciate that change does not happen overnight, and is the result of effort, practice and time. i guess that what turns people off. However unfortuneatly there is no quick fix to these sort of symptons. Attending the meetings weekly reminds you to practice, because its practice that brings about the change, not knowledge. How many times have you read self help books and what they say makes sense but you just don't feel it? thats because you don't learn how to put it into practice. In recovery meetings you will. Meeting Locations are shown on the website. Go, keep going, put into practice what you learn and I guarantee you will not be dissappointed. It wiil change you life0 -
I'd love some more info as I've long suspected I suffer from this. At what point does it become a 'disorder' though? My BF and family scoff at the idea it's some sort of disorder and say I'm just a bit shy and antisocial, but most of the points on that list apply to me.
Sorry I hav'nt logged in so long folks. I've been a bit busy and my Avoidance has lessed somewhat recently. Well don't feel bad that others don't believe you at the end of the day these people are not professionals nor Avoidants so they have no intellectual right to make a diagnosis.
It becomes a disorder when you develope a "fixed fantasy". In the case of Avoidants its the fantasy of inferiority to others. Thats how C.B.T. can be helpful the therapist challenges the delusion of inferiority. Be careful though its not uncommon for Avoidants to transcend to Narcissists, especially if their Narcissistic Avoidants. The underly root of Avpd and NPD is severe low self esteem. The fixed fantasies, which the mind creates sub-consciously are just defence mechanisms against low self worth.0 -
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krankykitty wrote: »I too would like more information or for awareness to be raised, as I have a family member who could possibly have it. There does not seem to be much awareness out there on it.
OP, if you don't mind answering, can you tell me a bit more about what options are out there for treatment?
Your right. Its a newly recognised P.D. Add this to the fact that avoidants....well avoid pretty much everything its no surprise that their is so little written about it.0 -
you guys should get yourselves to Recovery Self Help meetings. (check out
http://www.recovery-inc.com/) a weekly meeting directed at tackling nervous symptons. Its cheaper then doctors, weekly and it actually works.
it does require alot of effort, discomfort bearing and a will to change alot of old habits and beliefs, but it's worth every bit of it. you will find that most people there experienced the symptons mentioned prior to starting recovery.
You will also have to appreciate that change does not happen overnight, and is the result of effort, practice and time. i guess that what turns people off. However unfortuneatly there is no quick fix to these sort of symptons. Attending the meetings weekly reminds you to practice, because its practice that brings about the change, not knowledge. How many times have you read self help books and what they say makes sense but you just don't feel it? thats because you don't learn how to put it into practice. In recovery meetings you will. Meeting Locations are shown on the website. Go, keep going, put into practice what you learn and I guarantee you will not be dissappointed. It wiil change you life
Thanks but I doubt if it will help avoidants. Personality disorders are not curable at present because its part of ones personality. We can transcend P.D.s i.e. Its not unheard of for an Avoidant to turn Narcissistic and Vice versa or for a Schizoid to turn Schizotypal but to be blunk were to damaged to be have a typical personality. However the intensity of Avpd can lessen and it has the best success rate from C.B.T. because Avoidants are the only group of P.D.s that actually want to change. So C.B.T. and self analysis can help big time. Anyway, if anyone has any questions feel free to p.m. or ask in this thread.0 -
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Im looking at whats posted and trying to to the differance betwen AVPD and perhaps Aspergers , ow self esteem , if Im right is not often a match with asperges, would it be a co-morbid condition in its own right .
Its a new one, Im googleing as we speak.
If I offend anyone with what I am saying aplogies in advance.I have no tact and am just stright out with it, sorry,
cathy0 -
Personality disorders are not illness's. They are desciptions of behaviour. This would previously be called being very shy, a normal but extreme variant of behaviour.
No offense but you could'nt possibly be more wrong. This is an example of the ignorance that people such as myself endure from society everyday. Personality disorders are forms of mental illness. They would'nt be in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) otherwise.
They are descriptions of behaviours but traits of Avoidance, Narcissism and Schizoidism are healthy but not when they become a personality disorder.
Personality disorders are ingrained defence mechanisms which while initially effective against trauma outlast their initial use but are ingrained into ones personality due to the intensity of the trauma. Yes Avoidance would be refered to previously as extreme shyness but that was before it was recognised as a personality disorder not an extreme form of shyness. I suggest you should do your homework before making comments as I am offended by what you said. I'm sure you did'nt mean to cause offense but the ignorance exhibited in your post, which typifies society would cause great offence and hurt to people with P.D.'s. I am a highly functioning Avoidant however I know of people who can barely leave their house,never worked or had a relationship(Thankfully I had all three). No offense to you personally, I'm sure your're a nice person, but I was hurt and irritated by what you said which was predicated by ignorance of the subject matter. You have no idea what a painful mental illness this is and how everyday is a struggle for us. I know people who have made serious attempts of suicide due to their respective P.D. and essentially comments such as your's trivialise this serious issue in the eyes of society.0 -
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Im looking at whats posted and trying to to the differance betwen AVPD and perhaps Aspergers , ow self esteem , if Im right is not often a match with asperges, would it be a co-morbid condition in its own right .
Its a new one, Im googleing as we speak.
If I offend anyone with what I am saying aplogies in advance.I have no tact and am just stright out with it, sorry,
cathy
Cathy you were'nt offensive at all. Indeed I know someone with Aspergers who intially thought he may have been Avoidant.0 -
When it comes to Asperger's Syndrome, I believe that AvPD should be regarded as a symptom (just as depression, anxiety, and OCD are also regarded as symptoms when it comes to Asperger's). However, for those who don't have Asperger's, then AvPD can be quite crippling.
Fionnanc, your post had little to offer the thread as a whole, and I suggest you don't bother coming back.
Take care,
Kevin0 -
When it comes to Asperger's Syndrome, I believe that AvPD should be regarded as a symptom (just as depression, anxiety, and OCD are also regarded as symptoms when it comes to Asperger's). However, for those who don't have Asperger's, then AvPD can be quite crippling.
Fionnanc, your post had little to offer the thread as a whole, and I suggest you don't bother coming back.
Take care,
Kevin
Indeed Kevster, I can't comment much on Aspergers Syndrome as I am fairly ignorant of the subject matter. I know its not uncommon for people with a P.D. to have a co-morbid disorder/symptoms, or traits of a another P.D. or mental illness.Many people with AvPD have dismythia, and traits of another P.D. i.e. Schizoidism, Narcissism and Obsessive compulsive disorder.0 -
When you say its caused by a trama...then can it be taekn that its not something your born eith as opposed to Asperers , which you are.
Is their no threatment....not a cure but threatment.Maybe something for the anxiety and CBT to help with the social side.Is it easier to for people with AvPD to communicate via the internet etc.Maybe those recovery ,meetings should be held in a chat room type thing.Its very interesting , as it puts a different light on why some people as shy to the extreem.
Thanks for posting about it, its one way of highlighting the condition.
Cathy0 -
When you say its caused by a trama...then can it be taekn that its not something your born eith as opposed to Asperers , which you are.
Is their no threatment....not a cure but threatment.Maybe something for the anxiety and CBT to help with the social side.Is it easier to for people with AvPD to communicate via the internet etc.Maybe those recovery ,meetings should be held in a chat room type thing.Its very interesting , as it puts a different light on why some people as shy to the extreem.
Thanks for posting about it, its one way of highlighting the condition.
Cathy
Hi,
Yes while Aspergers Syndrome is a neurological condition personality disorders are psychological conditions. There is a school of thought that some people may be gentically predisposed to developing P.D.'s easier than some.i.e. People with sensitive temperments from birth are more at risk of developing Avoidant or Narcissistic Personality disorder, both of which are precipatated by severe esteem issues, however it seems that nurture rather than nature is a more salient issue for those effected with P.D.'s.
Yes there is treatment for all P.D.'s. and that fact that,in genreral, Avoidants are the onlt categoray of P.D.'s that actually realise they have a P.D. and want to change.(Most Schizoids know they have a P.D. but don't want to change) So logically Avoidants respond best to therapy however the main issue for the therapist gaining the trust of the Avoidant.
In general the psychiatric community believes it is highly unlikely for a diagnosed P.D. to make a full recovery although this may change.(I'm actually reading a book presently which pertains to this.) Avoidants respond well to C.B.T., where the therapist challenges the fixed fantasies of the Avoidant that he/she is worthless and unloveable ect. Expositional therapy also helps,i.e exposing ones self to the fears of rejection and ridcule with the goal being that the said fears are groundless. It is easier for Avoidants to communicate via the medium of the internet,certainly. I'll send you a p.m. in regards to that.
Thanks for your're appreciation of this thread Cathy.0 -
Shinji Ikari wrote: »Hi. I decided to post this thread primarily to raise awareness of a little known condition called Avoidant personality disorder. I myself have been diagnosed as an avoidant. Now, from my experience there is little to no awareness nor resources for people afflicted with this often crippling mental illness in Ireland.
Is this actually classed as an illness ?
In Dublin, what are the options for PD sufferers ? Can your GP refer you to a psychologist for CBT ?
I've asked my GP about CBT and he hadn't a clue what I was talking about.
Is passive/aggressive behaviour a type of PD ?0 -
alan dunne 27 wrote: »Is this actually classed as an illness ?
In Dublin, what are the options for PD sufferers ? Can your GP refer you to a psychologist for CBT ?
I've asked my GP about CBT and he hadn't a clue what I was talking about.
Is passive/aggressive behaviour a type of PD ?
Technically, Personality Disorders are classified as Mental disorders. If you feel you may have a P.D. ask your G.P. to refer you to a Psychiatrist. If you are diagnosed the Psychiatrist will adminster the appropiate thearapy. As for Passive Aggressive; it was once classified as a P.D. but that is no longer the case....Although personally I think this may change. At one stage Alcoholism was classified as a P.D.0 -
What does "mental disorder" mean ? Is it a case of trying to control it with therapy as opposed to medication? There isn't much access to properly qualified therapists via the GP route from my experience. And it seems that Ireland has a whole seems to have a flaw in it's treatment of people looking for therapy. I've known many people who's experience with psychiatrists has been sole treatment with tablets and they've not been too enthusiastic about refering them for therapy.
I've quite a few friends in the UK who've gone to their GP for depression , well depresion would be the blanket general term. Anyway, their GP has offered therapy from the get go. Perhaps I'm just pessimistic but Ireland appears to have a system where doctors are happy to prescribe pills over therapies. I've heard that psychiatrists seem to diagnose PDisorders whilst treating other mental illnesses, mainly depression. However , looking at some of the symptoms, it seems that it can be an easy way out for psychiatrists to say "well ,you're not responding to treatment, you may have a personality disorder".
In your opinion, do you think you have recieved adequate attention given to your disorder/illness ? Or does being diagnosed with a PD seem to lessen the seriousness of the issue and thus lead to a psychiatrist sort of, brushing you off as it were and perhaps telling you to try and deal with it yourself ?
What is the medical community's view on personality disorders ? Is there much attention given to them ?0 -
alan dunne 27 wrote: »What does "mental disorder" mean ? Is it a case of trying to control it with therapy as opposed to medication? There isn't much access to properly qualified therapists via the GP route from my experience. And it seems that Ireland has a whole seems to have a flaw in it's treatment of people looking for therapy. I've known many people who's experience with psychiatrists has been sole treatment with tablets and they've not been too enthusiastic about refering them for therapy.
I've quite a few friends in the UK who've gone to their GP for depression , well depresion would be the blanket general term. Anyway, their GP has offered therapy from the get go. Perhaps I'm just pessimistic but Ireland appears to have a system where doctors are happy to prescribe pills over therapies. I've heard that psychiatrists seem to diagnose PDisorders whilst treating other mental illnesses, mainly depression. However , looking at some of the symptoms, it seems that it can be an easy way out for psychiatrists to say "well ,you're not responding to treatment, you may have a personality disorder".
In your opinion, do you think you have recieved adequate attention given to your disorder/illness ? Or does being diagnosed with a PD seem to lessen the seriousness of the issue and thus lead to a psychiatrist sort of, brushing you off as it were and perhaps telling you to try and deal with it yourself ?
What is the medical community's view on personality disorders ? Is there much attention given to them ?
I have no idea what the actual difference between a mental illness and a mental disorder.lol! As far as I am concerned they are pretty much the same thing. The medical communitys current view is that people with PD's cannot be fully cured. The intensity of the traits may lessen alot with the correct treatment and luck however. This opinion may of course change.
As for AvPD; Alot depends how bad your AVPD is. Mine is relatively mild. Another thing to consider is are you an introvert by nature or has your AvPD made you introverted? I'm fairly extroverted by nature so thats something in my favour.
The Psychiatrist will most likely proscribe C.B.T and some medication for social anxiety. I did'nt take any medication as I have very little social anxiety, although most Avoidants tend to have fairly strong social anxiety.
To be honest I put in alot of the work myself.I tend to introspect and psycho-analyse myself as I've studied psychology and read alot about it. However C.B.T. is very helpful. I agree that some Doctors seem to think Anti-depressants is the philosophers stone in regards to mental illness. I was mis-diagnosed with depression myself and I don't have depression. I have dysmithia, a less severe form of depression which is typically co-morbid with AVPD.0 -
I wasn't aware this was a disorder by itself. Isn't avoidance just a symptom of social axiety disorder? And if not, what are the main differences between the two?0
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I wasn't aware this was a disorder by itself. Isn't avoidance just a symptom of social axiety disorder? And if not, what are the main differences between the two?
No not at all. I mean a social phobe may avoid people due to social anxiety but to the degree of an Avoidant. A personality disorder is a maladaptive defence mechanism which has outworn its initial use but is still ingrained in ones personality. Also social phobes don't , in general, have the severe self esteem issues and self loathing as Avoidants. Another difference is that Social Phobes only monitor themselves in social interactions while Avoidants monitor both themselves and others. Although virtually all Avoidants have higher levels of social phobia than average many Avoidants are often high functioning and manifest less social phobia than an actual social phone how ever self loathing,mistrust,ideas of reference and other quirks which are pretty much exclusive to AvPD are still there regardless of whether the Avoidant has low levels of social phobia. Another thing is that Avoidants are hyper-sensitive people,which is probably one of the main problems. We tend to "feel" emotions more intensly than average people. Hence the avoidance of situations which are likely to produce negative evaluation. Finally its far easier to treat a social phobe than an Avoidant. The general consensus of the psychiatric community is the complete recovery of any P.D. is impossible although it can lessen.0 -
nirelandguy wrote: »I think I might have that, I have never been to see a doctor or anything and just basically put it down to Social Anxiety, but the symptoms seem to fit me more, I can relate to every one infact
That would be the same for me ! i think i will be seeking help soon but then again i might avoid going to see someone about it like i normally do ......0 -
For me the element of social phobia was the easiest to overcome. However its the major self esteem issues that seem to be constant.0
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