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Job losses in Architectural offices
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Chin up Smashey . Hope that there is a big door opening for you ....0
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Just a wee update here.
I am now dealing with the Revenue, VAT, PAYE/PRSI, suppliers, cash flow, 17 staff, wages, rates, solicitors (again) etc etc.
The planners are easy in comparison. :pac:0 -
Speech by Tánaiste to MacGill Summer School, 19 July 2009
In her speech, as reported in the Irish Times of 21 July, the Tánaiste warned a number of professions that the Government will not back down in its drive to increase competition and get better value as it tackles the economic crisis. Specifying “engineers, architects, the legal profession and others” she observed that there were sectors which had yet to feel “the chill winds of economic reality” and accused them of “economic conceit”. She also referred to Competition Authority reports on banking, utilities, and professional services such as engineers, architects, the legal profession, dentists and others.
The following is the text of a letter by the RIAI Director to the Irish Times on this extraordinary speech. The RIAI President will be making a more detailed response to the Minister. If Members would like to inform the Tánaiste of their own particular experiences of "the chill winds of economic reality", her department's email address is: info@entemp.ie (please copy the RIAI info@riai.ie in any correspondence).
Madam
The Tánaiste shows a worrying disconnect with reality when she referred to “architects” as being a sector which had yet to feel the “chill winds of economic reality”. As has been widely reported over 40% of architects have been made redundant. The RIAI has a significant number of members on Job Seekers Allowance or paying reduced charges because of financial hardship. Many architects in employment have experienced pay cuts and three day weeks. How chilly does it have to get to reach the Tánaiste’s attention?
For Public Sector projects the Tánaiste should be aware that architectural services are procured on a competitive basis in accordance with EU and Department of Finance procedures. She must also be aware that architects don’t have recommended, mandatory or minimum fee scales. On the Competition Authority Report, I would expect the Tánaiste or her Officials to have read the Report or at least the Executive Summary before making a public statement because the Report was very clear: “the Competition Authority has only a small number of concerns about how the architectural profession operates in Ireland. Unlike some other professions reviewed by the Competition Authority architects are not restricted by layers of unjustified or disproportionate restrictions or competition. Competition seems to be working well for consumers of architectural services and the economy as a whole”.
The Tánaiste might be better employed in examining the wide spread evasion by some Government Departments and State bodies generally of Prompt Payment Legislation and why her recent announcement of a fifteen days payment period by Government term was greeted by incredulity among architects.
If the Tánaiste’s address is indicative of the level of research and evidence based policy in her Department on matters of public record, as we face an unprecedented economic crisis, then it won’t just be architects who are made redundant but the entire Country.
Regards,
John Graby
Director
RIAI
8 Merrion Square
Dublin 20 -
We should e-mail this thread to her.0
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Wow the Tánaiste really has her finger on the pulse there. :rolleyes:
Really has no idea of the unemployment figures then. Good to see the country is in safe hands so0 -
http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp...2030&CatID=138
I sent out 9 e mails . 3 to my local TD's 6 to LA councillors .
Got 2 responses . ( 1 TD + 1 Councillor )
Both expressed sympathy and tried to state the case that FF were doing all in power to make things right . The councillor said he personally stopped listening to The Tanaiste long ago .
If more take my example maybe an influence can be exerted .
Some have written to the Press
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2009/0723/1224251144087.html0 -
Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,121 Mod ✭✭✭✭Join Date:Posts: 17886
SB - would you mind posting up a copy of the text of the email you sent. I actually have all the email addresses of my local FF & GP TDs and Cllrs saved but just have not had a chance to draft and email to bang off.
To busy trying to keep the work I have!0 -
Good response from John Graby, Director, RIAI.
I personally know of many Arch. Techs. who have dropped there fees considerably eventhough in my opinion their fees were competitive already.
Is the Tanaiste suggesting it's the Arhitects or Ireland's fault the country is in crisis. The legal profession ? ............ she might have a point there. :mad:0 -
I set up a website charting the current situation for architects in Ireland here a few weeks ago. The survey isn't quite as relevant for arch techs (as in the questions are more directed towards architects with the RIAI stuff), but I thought it might be of interest when I read this thread.
Smashey - can I ask what industry you moved to?0 -
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I set up a website charting the current situation for architects in Ireland here a few weeks ago. The survey isn't quite as relevant for arch techs (as in the questions are more directed towards architects with the RIAI stuff), but I thought it might be of interest when I read this thread.
Smashey - can I ask what industry you moved to?0 -
http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp...2030&CatID=138
I sent out 9 e mails . 3 to my local TD's 6 to LA councillors .
Got 2 responses . ( 1 TD + 1 Councillor )
Both expressed sympathy and tried to state the case that FF were doing all in power to make things right . The councillor said he personally stopped listening to The Tanaiste long ago .
If more take my example maybe an influence can be exerted .
Some have written to the Press
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2009/0723/1224251144087.html
The first link seems broken unless the webmeister moved the list to frustrate b.ie0 -
30th Dáil - May 2008
Alphabetical list of Email addresses for TD’s of the 30th Dáil - May 2008
(Please see pages 5 and 6 for all addresses as a group.)
1. Mr. Bertie Ahern bertie.ahern@oireachtas.ie
2. Mr. Dermot Ahern minister@justice.ie
3. Mr. Michael Ahern michael.ahern@oireachtas.ie
4. Mr. Noel Ahern noel.ahern@oireachtas.ie
5. Mr. Bernard Allen bernard.allen@oireachtas.ie
6. Mr. Chris Andrews chris.andrews@oireachtas.ie
7. Mr. Barry Andrews barry.andrews@oireachtas.ie
8. Mr. Seán Ardagh sean@ardagh.org
9. Mr. Bobby Aylward bobby.aylward@oireachtas.ie
10. Mr. James Bannon james.bannon@oireachtas.ie
11. Mr. Sean Barrett sean.barrett@oireachtas.ie
12. Mr. Joe Behan joe.behan@oireachtas.ie
13. Mr. Niall Blaney niall.blaney@oireachtas.ie
14. Ms. Aíne Brady aine.brady@oireachtas.ie
15. Mr. Cyprian Brady cyprian.brady@oireachtas.ie
16. Mr. Johnny Brady johnny.brady@oireachtas.ie
17. Mr. Pat Breen pat.breen@oireachtas.ie
18. Mr. Tommy Broughan thomas.p.broughan@oireachtas.ie
19. Mr. John Browne john.browne@oireachtas.ie
20. Mr. Richard Bruton richard.bruton@oireachtas.ie
21. Mr. Ulick Burke ulick.burke@oireachtas.ie
22. Ms. Joan Burton joan.burton@oireachtas.ie
23. Ms. Catherine Byrne catherine.byrne@oireachtas.ie
24. Mr. Thomas Byrne thomas.byrne@oireachtas.ie
25. Mr. Dara Calleary dara.calleary@oireachtas.ie
26. Mr. Pat Carey minister.carey@taoiseach.gov.ie
27. Mr. Joe Carey joe.carey@oireachtas.ie
28. Ms. Deirdre Clune deirdre.clune@oireachtas.ie
29. Mr. Niall Collins niall.collins@oireachtas.ie
30. Ms. Margaret Conlon margaret.conlon@oireachtas.ie
31. Mr. Paul Connaughton paul.connaughton@oireachtas.ie
32. Mr. Sean Connick sean.connick@oireachtas.ie
33. Mr. Noel J Coonan noel.coonan@oireachtas.ie
34. Mr. Joe Costello joe.costello@oireachtas.ie
35. Ms. Mary Coughlan tanaiste@entemp.ie
36. Mr. Simon Coveney simon.coveney@oireachtas.ie
37. Mr. Brian Cowen taoiseach@taoiseach.gov.ie
38. Mr. Seymour Crawford seymour.crawford@oireachtas.ie
39. Mr. Michael Creed michael.creed@oireachtas.ie
40. Mr. John Cregan john.cregan@oireachtas.ie
41. Ms. Lucinda Creighton lucinda.creighton@oireachtas.ie
42. Mr. Ciaran Cuffe ciaran.cuffe@oireachtas.ie
43. Mr. Martin Cullen ministersoffice@dast.gov.ie
44. Mr. John Curran john.curran@oireachtas.ie
45. Mr. Michael W. D'Arcy michael.darcy@oireachtas.ie
46. Mr. John Deasy john.deasy@oireachtas.ie
47. Mr. Jimmy Deenihan jdeenihan@eircom.net
48. Mr. Noel Dempsey minister@transport.ie
49. Mr. Jimmy Devins jimmy.devins@oireachtas.ie
50. Mr. Timmy Dooley timmy.dooley@oireachtas.ie
51. Mr. Andrew Doyle andrew.doyle@oireachtas.ie
52. Mr. Bernard Durkan bernard.durkan@oireachtas.ie
53. Mr. Damien English damien.english@oireachtas.ie
54. Ms. Olwyn Enright olwyn.enright@oireachtas.ie
55. Mr. Frank Fahey frank.fahey@oireachtas.ie
56. Mr. Frank Feighan frank.feighan@oireachtas.ie
57. Mr. Martin Ferris martin.ferris@oireachtas.ie
58. Mr. Michael Finneran michael.finneran@oireachtas.ie
59. Mr. Michael Fitzpatrick michael.fitzpatrick@oireachtas.ie
60. Mr. Charles Flanagan charles.flanagan@oireachtas.ie
61. Mr. Terence Flanagan terence.flanagan@oireachtas.ie
62. Mr. Sean Fleming sean.fleming@oireachtas.ie
63. Ms. Beverley Flynn beverley.flynn@oireachtas.ie
64. Mr. Pat (The Cope) Gallagher patthecope.gallagher@oireachtas.ie
65. Mr. Eamon Gilmore eamon.gilmore@oireachtas.ie
66. Mr. Paul Nicholas Gogarty paul.gogarty@oireachtas.ie
67. Mr. John Gormley minister@environ.ie
68. Mr. Noel Grealish noel.grealish@oireachtas.ie
69. Ms. Mary Hanafin minister@welfare.ie
70. Ms. Mary Harney minister's_office@health.irlgov.ie
71. Mr. Sean Haughey sean_haughey@education.gov.ie
72. Mr. Brian Hayes brian.hayes@oireachtas.ie
73. Mr. Tom Hayes tom.hayes@oireachtas.ie
74. Mr. Jackie Healy-Rae Jackie.Healy.Rae@oireachtas.ie
75. Mr. Michael D. Higgins michael.higgins@oireachtas.ie
76. Ms. Máire Hoctor maire.hoctor@oireachtas.ie
77. Mr. Phil Hogan philip.hogan@oireachtas.ie
78. Mr. Brendan Howlin brendan.howlin@oireachtas.ie
79. Mr. Paul Kehoe paul.kehoe@oireachtas.ie
80. Mr. Billy Kelleher billykelleher@eircom.net
81. Mr. Peter Kelly peter.kelly@oireachtas.ie
82. Mr. Brendan Kenneally bwk@eircom.net
83. Mr. Michael Kennedy michael.kennedy@oireachtas.ie
84. Mr. Enda Kenny enda.kenny@oireachtas.ie
85. Mr. Tony Killeen tony.killeen@oireachtas.ie
86. Mr. Séamus Kirk seamus.kirk@oireachtas.ie
87. Mr. Michael P. Kitt michael.kitt@oireachtas.ie
88. Mr. Tom Kitt tom.kitt@oireachtas.ie
89. Mr. Brian Joseph Lenihan minister@finance.gov.ie
90. Mr. Conor Lenihan conor.lenihan@oireachtas.ie
91. Mr. Michael Lowry michael.lowry@oireachtas.ie
92. Ms. Kathleen Lynch kathleen.lynch@oireachtas.ie
93. Mr. Ciarán Lynch ciaran.lynch@oireachtas.ie
94. Dr. Martin Mansergh martin.mansergh@oireachtas.ie
95. Mr. Micheál Martin minister@dfa.ie
96. Mr. Pádraic McCormack padraic.mccormack@oireachtas.ie
97. Dr. James McDaid jim.mcdaid@oireachtas.ie
98. Mr. Thomas McEllistrim tom.mcellistrim@oireachtas.ie
99. Mr. Shane McEntee shane.mcentee@oireachtas.ie
100. Mr. Dinny McGinley dinny.mcginley@oireachtas.ie
101. Mr. Mattie McGrath mattie.mcgrath@oireachtas.ie
102. Mr. Michael McGrath michael.mcgrath@oireachtas.ie
103. Mr. Finian McGrath finian.mcgrath@oireachtas.ie
104. Mr. John McGuinness john.mcguinness@oireachtas.ie
105. Mr. Joe McHugh joe.mchugh@oireachtas.ie
106. Ms. Liz McManus liz.mcmanus@oireachtas.ie
107. Ms. Olivia Mitchell olivia.mitchell@oireachtas.ie
108. Mr. John Anthony Moloney john.moloney@oireachtas.ie
109. Mr. Arthur Morgan arthur.morgan@oireachtas.ie
110. Mr. Michael Moynihan michael.moynihan.td@oireachtas.ie
111. Mr. Michael Mulcahy michael.mulcahy@oireachtas.ie
112. Mr. Denis Naughten denis.naughten@oireachtas.ie
113. Mr. Dan Neville daniel.neville@oireachtas.ie
114. Mr. M. J. Nolan mj.nolan@oireachtas.ie
115. Mr. Michael Noonan michael.noonan@oireachtas.ie
116. Mr. Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin ocaolain@oireachtas.ie
117. Mr. Éamon Ó Cuív aire@pobail.ie
118. Mr. Seán Ó Fearghaíl sean.ofearghail@oireachtas.ie
119. Mr. Aengus Ó Snodaigh aengus.osnodaigh@oireachtas.ie
120. Mr. Darragh O'Brien darragh.obrien@oireachtas.ie
121. Mr. Charlie O'Connor charlie.oconnor@oireachtas.ie
122. Mr. Willie O'Dea minister@defence.irlgov.ie
123. Mr. Kieran O'Donnell kieran.odonnell@oireachtas.ie
124. Mr. John O'Donoghue john.odonoghue@oireachtas.ie
125. Mr. Fergus O'Dowd fergus.odowd@oireachtas.ie
126. Mr. Noel O'Flynn noel.oflynn@oireachtas.ie
127. Dr. Rory O'Hanlon rory.ohanlon@oireachtas.ie
128. Mr. Batt O'Keeffe minister_okeeffe@education.gov.ie
129. Mr. Jim O'Keeffe jim.okeeffe@oireachtas.ie
130. Mr. Edward O'Keeffe ned.okeeffe@oireachtas.ie
131. Mr. John O'Mahony john.omahony@oireachtas.ie
132. Ms. Mary O'Rourke mary.orourke@Oireachtas.ie
133. Mr. Brian O'Shea boshea@eircom.net
134. Mr. Christy O'Sullivan christy.osullivan@oireachtas.ie
135. Ms. Jan O'Sullivan jan.osullivan@oireachtas.ie
136. Mr. Willie Penrose willie.penrose@oireachtas.ie
137. Mr. John Perry john.perry@oireachtas.ie
138. Mr. Seán Power sean.power@oireachtas.ie
139. Mr. Peter Power peter.power@oireachtas.ie
140. Mr. Ruairí Quinn ruairi.quinn@oireachtas.ie
141. Mr. Pat Rabbitte pat.rabbitte@oireachtas.ie
142. Dr. James Reilly james.reilly@oireachtas.ie
143. Mr. Michael Ring michael.ring@oireachtas.ie
144. Mr. Dick Roche dick.roche@oireachtas.ie
145. Mr. Eamon Ryan minister.ryan@dcmnr.gov.ie
146. Mr. Trevor Sargent trevor.sargent@oireachtas.ie
147. Mr. Eamon Scanlon eamon.scanlon@oireachtas.ie
148. Mr. Alan Shatter alan.shatter@oireachtas.ie
149. Mr. Tom Sheahan tom.sheahan@oireachtas.ie
150. Mr. P. J. Sheehan pj.sheehan@oireachtas.ie
151. Mr. Sean Sherlock sean.sherlock@oireachtas.ie
152. Ms. Róisín Shortall roisin.shortall@oireachtas.ie
153. Mr. Brendan Smith minister@agriculture.gov.ie
154. Mr. Emmet Stagg emmet.stagg@oireachtas.ie
155. Mr. David Stanton david.stanton@oireachtas.ie
156. Mr. Billy Godfrey Timmins billy.timmins@oireachtas.ie
157. Mr. Noel Treacy noel.treacy@oireachtas.ie
158. Ms. Joanna Tuffy joanna.tuffy@oireachtas.ie
159. Dr. Mary Upton mary.upton@oireachtas.ie
160. Mr. Leo Varadkar leo.varadkar@oireachtas.ie
161. Mr. Jack Wall jack.wall@oireachtas.ie
162. Ms. Mary Wallace mary_wallace@health.irlgov.ie
163. Ms. Mary Alexandra White marya.white@oireachtas.ie
164. Dr. Michael J. Woods michael.woods@oireachtas.ie0 -
sydthebeat wrote: »6 months + of work ahead of me and no sign of it slowing down coming in.....
but we're a small office and are very mallable...
Hopefully you meant "malleable" as in flexible, sydthebeat.
No surprises finding you have some work on, or that you're here.
ONQ
Sorry about bumping up a relatively old comment - itchy send finger, only saw the date after I'd read a bit.0 -
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Speech by Tánaiste to MacGill Summer School, 19 July 2009
In her speech, as reported in the Irish Times of 21 July, the Tánaiste warned a number of professions that the Government will not back down in its drive to increase competition and get better value as it tackles the economic crisis. Specifying “engineers, architects, the legal profession and others” she observed that there were sectors which had yet to feel “the chill winds of economic reality” and accused them of “economic conceit”. She also referred to Competition Authority reports on banking, utilities, and professional services such as engineers, architects, the legal profession, dentists and others.
However, What is wrong with healthy competition? In essence, the RIAI is a cartel which recommends fee structures to its members, that's Architects and not Technicians because they are not supported in the endeavour. I would suggest that there should be more competition with all the professions and the restrictions to practice should be eased to professionally competent others!!0 -
pseudo-tech wrote: »However, What is wrong with healthy competition? In essence, the RIAI is a cartel which recommends fee structures to its members, that's Architects and not Technicians because they are not supported in the endeavour. I would suggest that there should be more competition with all the professions and the restrictions to practice should be eased to professionally competent others!!
There will always be people who want to service their own cars, but its when they start designing and building their own cars that the problems start.
For example we have a thriving, unregulated, self-build market in Ireland.
Some of the questions asked by self-builders when things start to go wrong are frightening.
The barest foresignt and common sense seem to have abandoned them.
We have direct labour loans from banks which actually require that a main contract SHOULDN'T be retained and asks an Engineer to certify the work, as opposed to the design of the work, compromising their P.I.
Not using professionals and competent, experienced contractors to deliver a building is just asking for trouble, and yet here are the banks again, promoting this as if its going to save you money.
If you're lucking perhaps, but in general I doubt it and certainly averaged out over the long term I hope to get a lot of post facto inspection work out of Direct Labout Loan funded developments.
Recommending fee structures sets a reasonable income level which helpds support continuous professional development, a requriement for most professionals in order to stay "on form".
Charging a fair price for a professional, competent service supports this.
Permitting unqualified persons to provide design or build services will tend to cause problems, period, and not just by undermining professional offices by hoovering up all their bread and butter work.
I see huge problems for any competent, qualified person getting undercut by these geniuses, the relatively recent David Grant Fiasco being a case in point.
Unuqualified successes and direct labour trades people carry no overall liability where they are directly employed and the employer assumes the responsibilities of both Architect and Developer, leaving him surrounded by the dust trails of fast-disappearing men of straw when trouble rears it head.
Certain problems may occur in permitting qualified persons to work here who may be unfamilar with the Irish Building Regulations.
[Its all very well to ask for mobility of labour to occur, but in France they don't even use decimal points in the same way we do.]
Higher standards in building tend to apply in many anglophone or commonwealth or ex-commonwealth countries and Ireland is no exception, together with Australia, New Zealand, America Britain and Canada.
Differences in the way tenders and contracts are configures and administrated, in the way design work and buildings are insured all need to be understood as part of professional practice.
Wiki the word Architect and you'll see there is little equivalance between these english-speaking countries.
Sure, you can say this is anti-competitive, but professionals will argue that its apples and apples you should be comparing, not apples and oranges.
The minimum required for persons entering this country from abroad to work as an architect for example, is a recognised qualification and two years working here to "learn the trade".
Many will use this time to make client contacts and develop their language skills, which will further improve their ability to deliver a competent service.
Is that a bad thing or a good thing?
FWIW
ONQ.0 -
Thanks for a useful list.
The thing is, do we really need them all?
ONQ.
Not really . Find your local TD's here and if you have anything to say to them you have the e mail address .
http://www.oireachtas.ie/members-hist/default.asp?housetype=0&HouseNum=30&disp=const0 -
pseudo-tech wrote: »the RIAI is a cartel which recommends fee structures to its members,
not since 1999 when competition law outlawed fee scales
why did you not fully quote me in particular
“the Competition Authority has only a small number of concerns about how the architectural profession operates in Ireland. Unlike some other professions reviewed by the Competition Authority architects are not restricted by layers of unjustified or disproportionate restrictions or competition. Competition seems to be working well for consumers of architectural services and the economy as a whole”.0 -
SB - would you mind posting up a copy of the text of the email you sent. I actually have all the email addresses of my local FF & GP TDs and Cllrs saved but just have not had a chance to draft and email to bang off.
Ideas ? - how about
Explain how the recession is effecting you . How many people did you work with last year . How many now . How is your salary compared to what it was. How long do you expect your job to last ( if you still have one ) .
How do you fell about being described as someone who is "yet to feel the chill wind wind of economic reality " . Not by some troll on the internet but by the 2nd in command of this economy . Do you have faith in the govt. as result ? How well they have their finger on the pulse . Do you think our politicians deserve to be paid vastly more then UK , US and most other European politicians - how have they distinguished themselves to credit that ? Who is really guilty of “economic conceit” - and what chill wind do you wish upon them ?
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not since 1999 when competition law outlawed fee scales
why did you not fully quote me in particular
“the Competition Authority has only a small number of concerns about how the architectural profession operates in Ireland. Unlike some other professions reviewed by the Competition Authority architects are not restricted by layers of unjustified or disproportionate restrictions or competition. Competition seems to be working well for consumers of architectural services and the economy as a whole”.
My apologies. It was not my intention to misquote you. i was just trying to keep the post brief. My point was relating to restrictions on experienced Architectural Technicians practicing and this is reinforced by them not been recognised by the RIAI or being labelled unqualified Architects. They can become Technician members of the RIAI but do not have a fair voting right.
Technicians in the UK are recognised as professionally competent to prepare planning applications, tender drawings, supervise and sign off on projects. Why not here in Ireland???? We certainly have restrictive practice here??? Why??0 -
Lads, this thread is about job losses in Architect's offices, not about the RIAI and representation.
Please stick to the topic.0 -
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pseudo-tech wrote: »Smashey, can that also include Architectural Technician/ Technologist run offices in which there are many.0
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<snip>
"Unlike some other professions reviewed by the Competition Authority architects are not restricted by layers of unjustified or disproportionate restrictions or competition.”
<snip>
Just a small point, and perhaps I'm totally misreading this, but should that not have read;
"Unlike some other professions reviewed by the Competition Authority architects are not restricted by layers of unjustified or disproportionate restrictions on competition." [my underline]0 -
pseudo-tech wrote: »However, What is wrong with healthy competition? In essence, the RIAI is a cartel which recommends fee structures to its members, that's Architects and not Technicians because they are not supported in the endeavour. I would suggest that there should be more competition with all the professions and the restrictions to practice should be eased to professionally competent others!!
Is this a troll:mad:
The work is not there so competition, healthy or otherwise is not the issue right now. Survival is the issue
Look at the costs of doing business here: rates, elec,heat,water, refuse collection, PI,PL,PRSI,levies and then the working capital required to fund contracts and you will get an idea why there are vast numbers unemployed in this sector.0 -
pseudo-tech wrote: »<snip>
Technicians in the UK are recognised as professionally competent to prepare planning applications, tender drawings, supervise and sign off on projects. Why not here in Ireland???? We certainly have restrictive practice here??? Why??
Are you suggesting ALL technicians are that competent?
I've worked with some that are and some that aren't.
I think that the abilities overlap more with the years as technicians become more competent in design and architects become more technically competent.
I don't think this is a matter resting solely with architects or architectural technicians BTW.
Fuzzing at the edges of qualifications isn't confined to archs/arc-techs.
There are interior architects vying with interior designers.
Chartered surveyors are now getting involved in macro-planning, stepping on the toes of urban planners and planning consultants.
Most technicians I have worked with were certainly better organized and more disciplined in their time management on projects than newly qualified architects.
Their technical competence meant that any design work they did wasn't restricted by fear of not detailing it properly.
Technicians who wanted to take on more design responsibility in the office or on a project or perhaps wanted to become architects tended in my experience to be limited in their progress or studies by; -- their level of innate design ability [as are architectural students],
- their professional focus on detailing which, if you will, leaves some of them missing the forest for the trees and
- their age and relative maturity, which can get in the way of accepting design critiques [just as can an architectural student's arrogance]
- their sometime unwillingness to investigate alternatives for the sake of it, if they arrive at one design that works okay relatively early in a project.
I've had the privilege of working with two technicians who did the RIAI architects course as well as a slew of technicians from the Longford Terrace course.
The top 10% from Longford Terrace were accepted into Bolton Street DIT and a significant number of them [75%? Uncertain, but certainly all bar one that I knew] passed out as qualified architects.
But technical and design competence are only two aspects of an architect's performance envelope.
Judgement calls are where its at.
Judgements made in the presence of unknowns.
Being an Architect carries the weight of responsibility.
I don't mean the laughable level of "responsibility" that company directors carry or that shouldered so easily by our elected representatives.
Architects can be sued, sued even after they've died, and their successors in title can bear the loss of them being successfully sued unto their estate.
The law is an ass, and its the architect who's the target, not the architectural technician - when did you ever hear of an architectural technician getting sued?
"The flat roof was flat and well constructed, but the kid playing ball on it fell off and broke his back" - sue the technician who detailed the roof?
No, sue the architect who designed it!
Its yet another dark side of architecture, one they don't dwell on too much. We skim over two years of law covering the basics.
Do you want to enter that arena?
Architects live there every day.
You're welcome to join in.
Get the qualification.
No going back.
ONQ.0 -
Is this a troll:mad:
The work is not there so competition, healthy or otherwise is not the issue right now. Survival is the issue
Look at the costs of doing business here: rates, elec,heat,water, refuse collection, PI,PL,PRSI,levies and then the working capital required to fund contracts and you will get an idea why there are vast numbers unemployed in this sector.
The cost of doing business has little to do with it.
Outside this island, its a disincentive to come here.
Inside, its all relative and so the costs don't really count.
What matters is the lack of demand across the board for buildings.
Its the lack fo demand that has resulted in the numbers of unemployed.
ONQ0 -
Its the lack fo demand that has resulted in the numbers of unemployed.
So - what do you put the Tanaistes remarks down to ?
Just a small point, and perhaps I'm totally misreading this, but should that not have read;
Its the lack of demand that has resulted in the numbers of unemployed
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ONQ, I'd just like to remind you that this forum is for Architectural Technicians/Technologists so to come in here and post about the level of competency will be met with some pretty strong rebuttals.0
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