Job losses in Architectural offices

gman2k

What's even more worrying is the lost experience, and the difficulty for unemployed techs and architects to keep up with changing regulations.
PS, my brother says there are jobs available in Bermuda....(for ATs and Archs)

Mellor

muffler wrote: »

Government & semi state contracts no doubt.

I doubt it, I imagine the 16% are small practices of 1-3 people who haven't let ant one go.

archtech

another blow for architecture in Ireland

http://two.archiseek.com/2010/murray-o-laoire-architects-goes-into-liquidation/

DOCARCH

Another sad day but I'd expect them to come back in another name or form minus lots of staff, dorectors and associates.

Poor Uncle Tom

The mushroom toppled....I have no doubt that they will come back as Docarch says but that's a lot of staff out of work.

sinnerboy

I wonder if our Tainaiste will acknowledge "the chill wind" now .

Slig

I'm not trying to rub it in peoples faces, just trying to bring abit of positive to the table. I have been so busy this is the first time in months I've even logged on never mind posted anything.

I dont know if its beginners luck, or just a fluke but since starting up on my own late last year things are starting to get busier for me, I have my website pretty much up and running and intend to start advertising in local papers soon but I have about 1-2 clients a month on everything from extensions to new builds to interior design.

I'm still working 2 other jobs and my wife is doing most of the drawing(another unemployed arch tech) but if things keep going or pick up then losing my job could have been one of the best things to happen me. I know I would never have opened my own practice without the realisation that architecture is my best strenght and it was the only way I could stay in the game.

muffler

Slig wrote: »

I'm not trying to rub it in peoples faces, just trying to bring abit of positive to the table. I have been so busy this is the first time in months I've even logged on never mind posted anything.

I dont know if its beginners luck, or just a fluke but since starting up on my own late last year things are starting to get busier for me, I have my website pretty much up and running and intend to start advertising in local papers soon but I have about 1-2 clients a month on everything from extensions to new builds to interior design.

I'm still working 2 other jobs and my wife is doing most of the drawing(another unemployed arch tech) but if things keep going or pick up then losing my job could have been one of the best things to happen me. I know I would never have opened my own practice without the realisation that architecture is my best strenght and it was the only way I could stay in the game.

Good man. Glad to hear that things are looking brighter.

And of course its always nice to hear something positive for a change

Mellor

That's good to heat Slig, I'd never begrudge anybody their success.
Although, you might want to change your location
What sort of start up costs were involved?

jozi

I actually started a job this week (along with another class mate) that I was offered, only finished college last week. It's only for 6 weeks but at least it's some cash I want expecting which is nice. Apparently they took on a few more as well.

Thats the good news. Spend most of the day yesterday drawing polylines around rooms :rolleyes: Some way to get the most out a fully qualified Technologist

archtech

good to hear positive news... long may it continue

smashey

jozi wrote: »

Spend most of the day yesterday drawing polylines around rooms :rolleyes: Some way to get the most out a fully qualified Technologist

Sorry jozi but I have to say this...


LOL

Poor Uncle Tom

I've noticed a few of the smaller builders start to move on their own sites as well. It's all good, and nice to hear Slig and jozi.

Mellor

BTW Jozi, what are the plans for the future of the course?
Has Cormac mentioned about the next few years and return students, or part-time study.
Depending on when I return and the state of the nation, I'd probably consider it.

DvB

Mellor wrote: »

BTW Jozi, what are the plans for the future of the course?
Has Cormac mentioned about the next few years and return students, or part-time study.
Depending on when I return and the state of the nation, I'd probably consider it.

I'd be interested in seeing how the course develops also & the possibility of going back PT or FT to get my degree.

Having qualified back in 95 i only have a Diploma & although i have 15 years experience that (not having the degree) may go against me in the future if any jobs come up in the public sector that i may be interested in for example, that & the fact i'd like to get as close to the top of my profession as possible would have me very interested in furthering my education in the field, though must admit part time would suit me lot better what with a family to support.

No6

DvB wrote: »

I'd be interested in seeing how the course develops also & the possibility of going back PT or FT to get my degree.

Having qualified back in 95 i only have a Diploma & although i have 15 years experience that (not having the degree) may go against me in the future if any jobs come up in the public sector that i may be interested in for example, that & the fact i'd like to get as close to the top of my profession as possible would have me very interested in furthering my education in the field, though must admit part time would suit me lot better what with a family to support.

Honours degrees are to my mind (as I havn't got one!!) a bit of a con, any employer worth their salt will hire someone with 15 years experience over a graduate honours degree or not any day unless they are actually looking for a graduate in the first place. What about recognition of prior learning, all the rage in the educational establishments, with 15+ years exp you should get a masters!!!:D

jozi

Work hasn't improved much over the past week. Still drawing occasional polylines :rolleyes: They don't really know what they want us to do but it's looking like ceiling plans for the next 3 weeks, once they decided on how they want them done

As for the course, there's RPL people starting this year (if that makes sense?) There's talk of a masters and parttime as well, but that talk has been around for a long time. I'd get onto Cormac he has it all figured out etc. I'm prob not the best to ask, I didn't enjoy the year very much this time around. Other interests/distractions that kept me busy or distracted.

Mellor: the course is open to graduates from your year (year ahead of me), my year and last years student were the 1st to be able to stream right into the 4th year.

Mellor

No6 wrote: »

Honours degrees are to my mind (as I havn't got one!!) a bit of a con, any employer worth their salt will hire someone with 15 years experience over a graduate honours degree or not any day unless they are actually looking for a graduate in the first place. What about recognition of prior learning, all the rage in the educational establishments, with 15+ years exp you should get a masters!!!:D

I understand your point, and agree to parts. For somebody with 15 yes, it's no aid when it comes to general employment.
But certain public contracts, lending institutions and burrrcrates in general don't think like this. Here it might be an issue for a guy working solo.

But it's much more relevant for ATs of my era. I graduated more recently, and first batch of honors degrees from DIT are my peers who returned to add-on. We are the ones who have found exp tough to gain, and any leg up is huge. Had I been in Ireland, I would of applied, 100% sure of that.

That said, I'm pretty sure, my decision to emmigrate for work will also stand to me. I one of a very smal lfew who have been working since graduating.

No6

Mellor wrote: »

I understand your point, and agree to parts. For somebody with 15 yes, it's no aid when it comes to general employment.
But certain public contracts, lending institutions and burrrcrates in general don't think like this. Here it might be an issue for a guy working solo.

But it's much more relevant for ATs of my era. I graduated more recently, and first batch of honors degrees from DIT are my peers who returned to add-on. We are the ones who have found exp tough to gain, and any leg up is huge. Had I been in Ireland, I would of applied, 100% sure of that.

That said, I'm pretty sure, my decision to emmigrate for work will also stand to me. I one of a very smal lfew who have been working since graduating.

If you are a relatively recent graduate and unemcumbered by wife & kids then the full time add on is an option, for the rest of us its a complete non starter even if we wanted too. I would do an honours degree and even a masters if the course suited, but for me it would have to be by distance learning. You can do architecture in the uk like this so I dont see the problem with architectural technology. I wouldn't go to bolton street either, I would go to waterford if they had a distance option after all they've had their honours degree for longer and are now CIAT accredited.
Or failing that I would like a complete career change as there's F all work for anybody and wouln't be for at least 5 years.

jozi

In relation to Waterford vs DIT's degree program, they are both very different from what I have heard. No offence meant to the Waterford guys but I think DIT has a much more developed course. It's been much longer in the making and cormac aimed to offer something better than waterford. Thats how it's been told to us at least.

One of they guys here in work is a Waterford degree program graduate and he was shocked to hear the hours we put in over the past 9 months. It is by no means a easy year, it's a continuation of the same level of work if not higher than the previous 3 years.

DIT has their end of year show up untill the end of this week, if your not far from Dublin I'd say go have a look and see what the standard is like.

No6

Unfortunately I am a long way from Dublin so i don't think i'll get to see it. It was the same in my day all the courses comparing themselves against each other, I do remember comparing the level of work we did as to DIT and being shocked at the difference, we were miles better (of course) in our own minds but in the end the true test of the quality of any course is the quality of its graduates and the oppertunities it give them, I know that DIT will never seek CIAT accreditation and will stick with RIAI accreditation only which I believe is extremely short sighted, and potentially mitagates against the courses graduates as they have no professional recognition in an international context. While CIAT are making huge inroads with recognition of its members across the world the RIAI are giving us a new title and trying to keep us under the thumb and I am afraid I believe the DIT course is working along the same lines. I would love to be proven wrong. If I was a student in any course (never mind DIT just in case you all thing I am DIT bashing!!) I would like to know that my course if recognised by all relevant profesional bodies both domestic and international and where this is not the case (most courses) I would be kicking up holy blue murder.

Best of luck with the results Jozi, I hope you get through ok!!.

This is straying widly off topic so perhaps a nice mod will seperate this from the Job lossed thread.

jozi

Your completely right, we from DIT, think we are better but thats all down to being a DIT graduate (we're still better though :P)

Agree about the quality of graduates is the only testament. I also feel it's what ever the student takes away from it, those working harder will get more from the course obviously. I'd love to see direct comparison between the 2 courses! I know from a class mate that when his brother was doing the degree in Waterford that he had little hrs, we had little lecture hrs but all the other stuff took up time.

I'm not to well informed on all the accreditation etc and the pro's and cons of each institute or what they aim to offer. I do feel Technologists are a very useful employee (dare I say more usefull than an architect depending on the stage a project is at?) with lots of abilities, at least thast what I like to think.

I got through it surprisingly well with a upper merrit (2-1), I felt the whole year that I didn't put much effort into it but thats a different story again and even more off topic.

No6

Congrats Jozi well done.

beyondpassive

Well done Jozi.

I'd argue the point with No.6 that honours degrees arn't important to employers. I've noticed that teams are being put together to compete for e tender jobs where team members have to have both a high degree of experience in the particular sector.

Oddly enough you are scored on your least qualified/experienced team members who invariably tend to be the technician, who scores very highly on experience but dismally on qualifications.

The nature of architectural consulting is changing, its a Europe wide thing. Gone are the huge companies with 300 employees, instead, companies draft in freelancers to add their specialised experience and qualification. Lean teams with high levels of specific experience.

i hit the glass the glass ceiling with a whallop mid celtic tiger as a technician, so needed to upskill or retool. I've just finished an honours degree in Planning and Environmental management in DIT and managed to sneak out with a first class honour. Apart from the time and money investment, it was relatively easy. I had undervalued my skills as a technician, which when transferred to another disipline, gave me a huge headstart. That said there are less opportunities for planners than technicians, but doing an honours degree or masters lets you take a specific subject and become an expert in that, culminating in an academic subject. I'm not advocating going back to full time college for 4 years as i did. I would recommend doing say the AEES MSc Arch in CAT in Wales, they are even considering setting up an Irish based course. Nevertheless there is always a gang of Irish people car pooling on the ferry to go to the part time masters for 5 days at the end of each month. Might even sign up myself next march intake.
http://gradschool.cat.org.uk/graduateschool/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=53&Itemid=216


If nothing else, having an hons degree puts me on a similar level of esteem with my architect colleagues.

I really don't see DIT running a part time Arch Tech Masters in the next 5 years. DIT have been cutting masters programmes and besides don't have the required level of qualified supervisors in the department despite currently advertising for a post doc for the Architecture department. I wouldn't put any hope on such a course. Its fairly obvious that the construction industry will have no role for most architectural technicians in the short, medium and long term. There is however a skills shortage in the sustainability sector in the meduim term and technicians have the perfect skills base and work ethic to start gaining new skills in this area.

DvB

Well getting this thread back on topic so to speak, the firm i work for closes its doors as of wednesday so from then i'll merely be another unemployed Architectural technologist. I have never been out of work since starting from college over 15 years ago so not sure whats facing me TBH, i'm assuming that theres no chance of picking up work with another firm (based on what i've been told by others let go in the last 18 months) but suppose i'll fire out the CV anyway, it'll probably be a therapy of sorts. At the moment i simply dont know what else to do & with a family to support its definitely worrying times, still i'll keep my fingers crossed that theres some life in our industry soon & i'll pick something up as its not a time i'd like to be away from it for too long what with all the changes taking place in the industry at the moment in terms of regs & designs etc.

rayjdav

DvB,
Sorry to hear your predicament. I too am out, for over a year now. Tis hard and like you, first time in over 15yrs also. Daddy Daycare!! At least wife working so some financial comfort.
I have sent CV out to anyone and their dog over this time and, not what you want to hear, not a sausage out there. As one agency said, too experienced in this field and not enough to work on production line in a factory:( Sure we can remember the good times.....
What used to be "nixers" is now work, what little I can get:mad:
Have resorted to going back to my old "dayjob" and trying to start covers band now to make money:o. If any SE based AT's in same situation and wanna beat the recession, and can play something, feel free to Pm.
We can call it "the band that boards built" :D:D
Best of luck to you and all in same situation

beyondpassive

Sorry toget lightly off topic, but i thought this may interet some of you:

CITA and DIT are runnung a parttime and fulltime master of science in construction Infomatics. Application closing date is 30th July. I'd imagine level 7 may qualify but cant be certain. Seems like a good future proof masters for technologists.

In fairness as a process, technical detailing was never streamlined, there is huge potential to develope systems to reduce the labour intensity. Many sectors have increased productivity and profitability by the use of IT, Architecture hasn't really been up to speed. Even the CAD and specwriter tools, have a lot of catching up to do.

jozi

I haven't been on here for awhile. Had a good 9 month stink in a well known Architectural practise, untill today when I got let go Their hopeful they can take me back in a few weeks when jobs pickup again and there's work/money to take back the staff they let go.

Not sure what to do now (apart from work on the car) college isnt an option, 4th year took it out of me and I didnt enjoy it.

Has the Irish building trade pickup over the last 9 months or where is it at?

Supertech

Not a huge amount jozi. There's bits and pieces of work out there but there's so many people scrapping for them that it's difficult to get the work in the first place. All we can do is keep plugging away. Hopefully things will find an even keel eventually. It's good that there's a possibility of you being taken back on anyway. Best of luck with it.