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Access to appartment

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  • 30-06-2008 11:14pm
    #1
    qwertz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭


    What are the rules/laws regarding access to an appartment by the management company to perform building work?

    Our management company is getting a contractor to replace all the windows in our appartment building and they are behaving very arrogant. They are trying to force dates/times on us at very short notice with regards to performing the work.
    I was under the impression that it is up to the resident to decide when access will be provided, not the other way around. Of course an emergency like a broken pipe is a different matter but replacing (perfectly fine) windows is hardly an emergency.

    Thanks in advance!


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    #2
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    They have to arrange it with you at a time convenient to you. That's the law.


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    #3
    qwertz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭qwertz


    Thanks for the reply, dudara. That's what I thought as well.

    If they were to do any work without my approval (replacing the windows from the outside with one of these personel cranes (whatever the name of these things is) rather than from within the appartment) then I presume that that wouldn't be OK either.


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    #4
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    qwertz wrote: »
    If they were to do any work without my approval (replacing the windows from the outside with one of these personel cranes (whatever the name of these things is) rather than from within the appartment) then I presume that that wouldn't be OK either.

    I've no experience in this area, but I wouldn't think that they could do that. maybe someone else knows.


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    #5
    qwertz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭qwertz


    Thanks for your help, much appreciated!


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    #6
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,208 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    qwertz wrote: »
    What are the rules/laws regarding access to an appartment by the management company to perform building work?

    Our management company is getting a contractor to replace all the windows in our appartment building and they are behaving very arrogant. They are trying to force dates/times on us at very short notice with regards to performing the work.
    I was under the impression that it is up to the resident to decide when access will be provided, not the other way around. Of course an emergency like a broken pipe is a different matter but replacing (perfectly fine) windows is hardly an emergency.

    Thanks in advance!

    Check your lease mate, there should be a provision in it which will tell you under what circumstances you must allow the Management Co, or their appointed agents, into your property. It is standard to have a clause such as this in every lease and chances are it will say something along the lines that you must let them in at "a reasonable time" - what that means God knows! However, it is also standard in leases that you have no choice, you have to let them in.

    The Management Co are probablly still under the control of the developers and that's why they're pushing you as if perfectly fine windows are being replaced then there must have been some flaw thus necessitating the builders paying for it so they are trying to do it as cheaply as possible.

    However, if you guys are in control of the Management Co then chances are that the cost of this is being borne by the unit owners, of which you are one, thus maybe making the process more expensive... just something to keep in mind mate!

    Anyways, check your lease, it should definitely be stated within it.


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    #7
    qwertz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭qwertz


    Thanks for the reply, bobbysands81.

    No developers, the building is 20+ years old. Actually, my landlord has no problem with us telling them to take a hike and install the windows whenever it suits us.


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    #8
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,603 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    just because there are provisions in the lease the owner signed does not necessarily mean they are enforceable in court

    OP why not ring the mgmt company and just agree a time?


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    #9
    qwertz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭qwertz


    Did that yesterday but they are inflexible regarding dates/times. They are trying to dictade a date/time and told us it's our problem to deal with the inconvenience.


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    #10
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    It's building work. It has to be done during working hours to avoid disruption. They cannot do the work overnight or at weekends. In my view, you need to facilitate this.


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    #11
    qwertz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭qwertz


    So I get a call on Monday ordering me to be there on Tuesday for work that is not an emergency and could just as well be done a week/month later and I have to comply? Sounds rather strange to me.


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    #12
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    It sounds like a complex situation.

    The management company needs to get the work done. It has to be done during business hours. They also need to get it done as quickly as possible (to not incur extra costs) so they need to get it done rapidly. If every 2nd person isn't available, then the work could drag on and on for weeks.

    In many ways, it is up to your landlord to facilitate access for the management company. But, due to you living there, it is probably easier for the management company to deal with you.

    Either way, unfortunately, you do actually have little choice in the matter. It would really depend on the wording of the Lease Contract between your landlord and the management company.

    In the long run, it's probably in your interest to just let them do their job. You get new windows.


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    #13
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,603 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    Yeah i starting to agree with Paulw here. As you are tenants I can understand your lack of allegiance to the place! :p

    however 24 hours notice is appauling.

    If it was me and i owned the place, i would probably accommodate them.


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    #14
    qwertz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭qwertz


    Thanks for all your replies.

    Just to clarify, we are in here for nearly a decade now (the location, excellent landlord/lady and a very decend rent). I do perform repairs myself as far as I can and the place is in very good order.

    I loathe people/companies who get paid to make my life easier and come across like they are the emperor of China. If you are nice to me then I will be nice to you.


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    #15
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,299 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    See if you can get a day off next month, and then tell them that your free that day. Shows you're trying to accomdate them.


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    #16
    mdebets
    Registered Users Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭mdebets


    Paulw wrote: »
    Either way, unfortunately, you do actually have little choice in the matter. It would really depend on the wording of the Lease Contract between your landlord and the management company.

    Wouldn't it rather depend on the Lease Contract between the OP and his landlord.
    The OP doesn't has a contract with the management company but with his landlord, so a Lease Contract between the landlord and the management company would not affect him (only if specifics from this contract are written in the OP's lease contract).


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    #17
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    mdebets wrote: »
    Wouldn't it rather depend on the Lease Contract between the OP and his landlord.
    The OP doesn't has a contract with the management company but with his landlord, so a Lease Contract between the landlord and the management company would not affect him (only if specifics from this contract are written in the OP's lease contract).

    AFAIK, the Lease Contract between unit owner and Management Company would trump that of the lease contract between tenant and landlord when it comes to the building (such as this work). Access to the premises for maintenance (replacing windows) by the management company would be well within their remit, since it is most likely stipulated in the Lease Contract that access must be granted.

    I'm no solicitor, but that would be my understanding.

    The lease contract between landlord and tenant should include all applicable clauses from the Lease Contract between unit owner and Management Company, which would include development rules (satellite dishes, hanging washing, pets) and access rights, etc.


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    #18
    How Strange
    Registered Users Posts: 6,339 ✭✭✭How Strange


    Paulw is right, there is usually (and it would be highly unusual for there not to be) a clause in the lease which stipulates that the owner of the unit must make themselves available for remedial works and if the unit is rented out then the onus for access falls on the occupants.

    If the managing agents/management company are contacting you regarding access to replace windows then it means there is a common defect in all the windows throughout the development and they need to be replaced. It is much more cost efficient to have this done all at once. The builders holidays start in two weeks so all no work will take place for those two weeks, there will be a go slow from next week and for a week or two after they return. That brings you up to September and then the managing agents and management company have to organise to have this work rescheduled with hoists, cherry pickers etc have to be rented, materials ordered.

    Realistically this could bring you into October and then the weather will be turning, shorter days etc. Bad weather means water ingress due to deficient windows meaning damp and other associated problems and it could be next Spring before they get the opportunity to do this work again.

    So the bigger picture is that while the managing agents might not be the most efficient or friendly about organising this you digging your heels in for the sake of it is helping no-one particularly you as the occupant of the unit. Your landlady should also know better considering it is enhancing her property to have this work done and she is most probably paying for it through management fees so delaying it will only incur further costs.

    I was previously a managing agent, and I worked on large scale remedial projects so I know how difficult it is to co-ordinate and while your MA gave very little notice I would say you should consider this a good thing that they want to change the windows and not necessarily see it as a 'us against the evil managing agent and management company' issue. I still work in the services industry so I know how difficult it is to organise remedial works. You can't please everyone and yes it might put you out a little to take time off to give them access but in the long run it's worth it.

    There are loads of posts here about MA's and MC's who can't be bothered their ar5e doing anything and here you have an example of something being done and people are still giving out about them.


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    #19
    beeno67
    Registered Users Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭beeno67


    the_syco wrote: »
    See if you can get a day off next month, and then tell them that your free that day. Shows you're trying to accomdate them.
    This is basically the landlords problem not yours. If you are expected to take time off work to let these people in to fix the landlords property, then the landlord should compensate you.


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    #20
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    There is an awful lot of law about the obligations of various sorts of subtenants. All in all, I'd be surprised if the subtenant doesn't have to cooperate with the landlord's agent. If you really want to fight about it, I would see a solicitor and get detailed advice. Otherwise you could end up facing a big bill at the end.

    At the end of the day, it seems to me that the dispute is not about a very big issue.


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