Impounding trespassing Cattle

axer

Hi,

Does anyone know the situation with impounding cattle that are constantly straying onto adjacent land. The owners of the cattle are unknown since the farmer next to the land is dead and the farmer next to that is believed to be letting some animals roam. It is even possible that the cattle belong to an entirely different farmer altogether.

Do cattle pounds exist where the cattle can be brought to?

Thanks for any help/advice.

Horace

If you can get close enough to the cattle to read their ear tags numbers that is if they are tagged of course your local dept of agriculture will be able to trace the owner using the tag number

axer

Horace wrote: »

If you can get close enough to the cattle to read their ear tags numbers that is if they are tagged of course your local dept of agriculture will be able to trace the owner using the tag number

Unfortunately we cannot find out the owner of the cattle due to data protection plus will it make a difference if this farmer is purposely letting in the cattle (we live about 30/40 miles from the land and they know it too so are trying to take advantage). Does anyone know what options are available? The Gardai don't seem to have any interest helping.

Caoimhín

If you can get the tag numbers, bring them to the Guards and inform him that you intend to impound the livestock.

The Guard is obliged to find out the name of the owner form the DoA and then contact him and ask him to remove the cattle.

You are on very shaky legal ground when impounding livestock, so try that with the Guards first. I suppose it depends on which Guard you talk to, but i find them helpful, especially when you tell them that you are going to impound.

The ones with common sense will ring the owner to avoid a conflict later on.

Note; it would do no harm at all to get a sign saying "livestock will be impounded" and display it around the field. I think it is part of the legal procedure to notify the owner of the livestock of your intention to impound.

axer

caoibhin wrote: »

If you can get the tag numbers, bring them to the Guards and inform him that you intend to impound the livestock.

Does anyone know should there be animal pounds that the cattle can be brought to or must we foot the bill of moving the animals and keeping them? Can we force them to pay before bringing them back?

caoibhin wrote: »

The Guard is obliged to find out the name of the owner form the DoA and then contact him and ask him to remove the cattle.

You are on very shaky legal ground when impounding livestock, so try that with the Guards first. I suppose it depends on which Guard you talk to, but i find them helpful, especially when you tell them that you are going to impound.

The ones with common sense will ring the owner to avoid a conflict later on.

Note; it would do no harm at all to get a sign saying "livestock will be impounded" and display it around the field. I think it is part of the legal procedure to notify the owner of the livestock of your intention to impound.

I might stick up the signs alright and try the gardai again, thanks.

irish_bob

i wouldnt rely on too much help from the guards , guards do as little as they possibly can on most issues if they can avoid it , they will feed you the line , thats a civil matter
you can impound them but you must then contact that DVO , be firm with the dvo , they have an obligation to deal with this as stray cattle pose a threat as regards spreading disease , stree the point that you think they have a disease , be vague though , dont say they have a disease , being civil servants like the guards , they will try and pass the buck but keep at them

good luck

reilig

axer wrote: »

Hi,

Does anyone know the situation with impounding cattle that are constantly straying onto adjacent land. The owners of the cattle are unknown since the farmer next to the land is dead and the farmer next to that is believed to be letting some animals roam. It is even possible that the cattle belong to an entirely different farmer altogether.

Do cattle pounds exist where the cattle can be brought to?

Thanks for any help/advice.

I would have a different point of view to the people above. I saw the Department of Agriculture impound cattle on land beside ours. As far as I am aware, the owner of the land went to the DVO, told them that they were trespassing, ie, the cattle broke into their land. The owner of the land is obliged to have his land properly fenced and these fences will be inspected during REPS inspections and during Cross Farm Compliance Checks. Alongside this, a farmer should not be grazing cattle on any land that maps are not submitted to the Department for by him. As far as I am aware, the owner of the land contacted the DVO to report the strays, the DVO inspected them, send a warning letter to the owner. When they came back a second time to inspect the cattle were still there. He had clearly broken the above rules as set out by the Dep. of Ag. so they impounded them. The land owner did not impound them so therefore was not legally involved.

So no worries for you. My advice, go to the local DVO asap and put the pressure on. There's nothing I hate more than someone taking advantage. Anyone's cattle can break out, but when they fail to remobve them, that annoys me,

snowman707

have you discussed this with your solicitor ot legal adviser?

I know the Dept. take a very serious view of trespass esprcially if there is any disease risks involved. Might be worth calling in to the DVO & giving them the full details, the guardai may work with the dept. of this issue,

bbam

Wouldnt you be tempted to take the gates away leaving free access to the road :rolleyes:, (i wouldnt condone that of course)..

Even if the Guards do nothing you should go in amd make a complaint, it wil be registered in their "great big book".. may be useful in the future..

Oldtree

whatever you decide to do, be careful that you do not leave yourself open to litigation by some eejet being able to prove that you were negligent in some shape or form.

Perhaps suggest to the DOE that the animals look unhealthy to you, (swolen tongues, lame, hair falling out or the suchlike...............!) bound to get a response then. Or if they look under fed then get on to animal welfare, spca.

The owner is liable for any damage to your property.

The first thing I would do if I owned the land is walk the ditch to see where they are getting in.
I'd then fence it.
The second thing I would do is put a chain and padlock on the gate(s) into the field.

Incidently -you should make up a bill for the owner of the cattle and sue for damages at this stage if it's on-going.
I find it highly unusual that locals don't know who owns the cattle.

axer

Hi Guys, thanks for all the advice.

We put up signs saying that livestock trespassing on the land will be impounded and the next day the cattle were gone off the land so hopefully that is the end of it.

Deleted User wrote: »

The first thing I would do if I owned the land is walk the ditch to see where they are getting in.
I'd then fence it.
The second thing I would do is put a chain and padlock on the gate(s) into the field.

Yes, we did that and saw there was only one place they were coming in and that was through the entrance to the field. We had put up a gate before and made sure it was up well with steel wire. It was up so in such a way that it could not be opened. The next time we went to check the field the gate was gone - obviously the cattle didn't take it!

Deleted User wrote: »

Incidently -you should make up a bill for the owner of the cattle and sue for damages at this stage if it's on-going.
I find it highly unusual that locals don't know who owns the cattle.

We only know one of the locals who says who he thinks owns the cattle but is not 100% sure.

Oldtree wrote: »

whatever you decide to do, be careful that you do not leave yourself open to litigation by some eejet being able to prove that you were negligent in some shape or form.

Exactly, that is what I was afraid of.

Oldtree wrote: »

Perhaps suggest to the DOE that the animals look unhealthy to you, (swolen tongues, lame, hair falling out or the suchlike...............!) bound to get a response then. Or if they look under fed then get on to animal welfare, spca.

That will be the next step if the cattle end up in the field again.

Oldtree wrote: »

The owner is liable for any damage to your property.

Its just that it is a costly and slow process to have to go to court over.

bbam wrote: »

Wouldnt you be tempted to take the gates away leaving free access to the road :rolleyes:, (i wouldnt condone that of course)..

As tempting as that is, if the cattle ever broke loose and caused an accident it could come back on us so it can't be an option.

bbam wrote: »

Even if the Guards do nothing you should go in amd make a complaint, it wil be registered in their "great big book".. may be useful in the future..

A complaint was made but they didnt seem very interested plus we could not prove who owned the cattle since we are not allowed that information from the department of agriculture.

snowman707 wrote: »

have you discussed this with your solicitor ot legal adviser?

He suggested making sure everything is fenced off but the problem is that the farmer took away the gate that was put up and anything else that was blocking the cattle.

snowman707 wrote: »

I know the Dept. take a very serious view of trespass esprcially if there is any disease risks involved. Might be worth calling in to the DVO & giving them the full details, the guardai may work with the dept. of this issue,

Yes, that is a great idea that we will use if the cattle end up in there again.

reilig wrote: »

I would have a different point of view to the people above. I saw the Department of Agriculture impound cattle on land beside ours. As far as I am aware, the owner of the land went to the DVO, told them that they were trespassing, ie, the cattle broke into their land. The owner of the land is obliged to have his land properly fenced and these fences will be inspected during REPS inspections and during Cross Farm Compliance Checks. Alongside this, a farmer should not be grazing cattle on any land that maps are not submitted to the Department for by him. As far as I am aware, the owner of the land contacted the DVO to report the strays, the DVO inspected them, send a warning letter to the owner. When they came back a second time to inspect the cattle were still there. He had clearly broken the above rules as set out by the Dep. of Ag. so they impounded them. The land owner did not impound them so therefore was not legally involved.

So no worries for you. My advice, go to the local DVO asap and put the pressure on. There's nothing I hate more than someone taking advantage. Anyone's cattle can break out, but when they fail to remobve them, that annoys me,

Yes, the DVO will definitely be the next step if they end up in there again.

irish_bob wrote: »

i wouldnt rely on too much help from the guards , guards do as little as they possibly can on most issues if they can avoid it , they will feed you the line , thats a civil matter
you can impound them but you must then contact that DVO , be firm with the dvo , they have an obligation to deal with this as stray cattle pose a threat as regards spreading disease , stree the point that you think they have a disease , be vague though , dont say they have a disease , being civil servants like the guards , they will try and pass the buck but keep at them

good luck

The problem we had mostly was trying to locate the place where they could be impounded. I think if it comes to it again we will just let the DVO deal with it.

irish_bob

axer wrote: »

Hi Guys, thanks for all the advice.

We put up signs saying that livestock trespassing on the land will be impounded and the next day the cattle were gone off the land so hopefully that is the end of it.

Yes, we did that and saw there was only one place they were coming in and that was through the entrance to the field. We had put up a gate before and made sure it was up well with steel wire. It was up so in such a way that it could not be opened. The next time we went to check the field the gate was gone - obviously the cattle didn't take it!

We only know one of the locals who says who he thinks owns the cattle but is not 100% sure.

Exactly, that is what I was afraid of.

That will be the next step if the cattle end up in the field again.


Its just that it is a costly and slow process to have to go to court over.

As tempting as that is, if the cattle ever broke loose and caused an accident it could come back on us so it can't be an option.

A complaint was made but they didnt seem very interested plus we could not prove who owned the cattle since we are not allowed that information from the department of agriculture.

He suggested making sure everything is fenced off but the problem is that the farmer took away the gate that was put up and anything else that was blocking the cattle.

Yes, that is a great idea that we will use if the cattle end up in there again.

Yes, the DVO will definitely be the next step if they end up in there again.


The problem we had mostly was trying to locate the place where they could be impounded. I think if it comes to it again we will just let the DVO deal with it.

you stated in the above post that the gate you placed in the gap where the cattle were breaking onto your property was gone
so bachially your gate was stolen
the gardai have to pay attention to that

axer

irish_bob wrote: »

you stated in the above post that the gate you placed in the gap where the cattle were breaking onto your property was gone
so bachially your gate was stolen
the gardai have to pay attention to that

It wasn't exactly a new gate. It was one of those old rusted types of gates which I doubt they are going to care about so we aren't going to bother following that yet (and I doubt the gardai are going to care either).

The farmer who let the cattle "stray" onto the land actually fed the animals on the land because there is one area that is well worn and their is a bit of black plastic left behind. Hopefully they were just chancing their arm and once they saw it was noticed and that action was being taken they are stopping.

Again, thanks guys for the advice.

Bitten & Hisses

axer wrote: »

He suggested making sure everything is fenced off but the problem is that the farmer took away the gate that was put up and anything else that was blocking the cattle.

Looks to me like the guy might be looking to the longer term and has adverse possession of your land in mind. (Squatters Rights) Believe me, if they're thick enough to remove a fence, they're thick enough to try and take over the land altogether. Get the ground properly fenced (none of your rusty gates lark) and keep them out. Secondly, as posted by numerous others, the Department are your first port of call when cattle are straying. This guy is getting payments from them and the threat of penalties ought to make him sit up and take notice.

axer

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

Looks to me like the guy might be looking to the longer term and has adverse possession of your land in mind. (Squatters Rights) Believe me, if they're thick enough to remove a fence, they're thick enough to try and take over the land altogether. Get the ground properly fenced (none of your rusty gates lark) and keep them out. Secondly, as posted by numerous others, the Department are your first port of call when cattle are straying. This guy is getting payments from them and the threat of penalties ought to make him sit up and take notice.

Thats a good point. It seems the cattle are entering through the land of a farmer that died (not sure how long dead) - he could already be eyeing up for adverse possession on that land. The only thing we can do now is to see if they come back in. There is someone keeping an eye on the land down there so we should know quickly enough if the cattle go back in. If that happens we will have to put a good fence up in the parts where they are coming through and contact the DVO.

Oldtree

It sounds like an adverse posession ploy now to me too. If you can get a local farmer to rent the land, along with a signed agreement, he may act as a guardian for you. The adverse posession can be claimed after a period of 12 years, but must be in the owners knowledge. and that would bring about an end to any claim for a 12 year period.

The fact that no one will tell you who owns the cattle is very strange.

You need to have possession for 12 years for to make a claim for adverse possession-so I wouldn't be overly worried unless this has been going on for 10 years or more!
Google it.
It is essential that you fence and gate the lands properly and eject the cattle back to the place they entered from.
The fencing is necessary and will cost you a couple of grand depending on the size of the property.

As regards,the fencing or gates being removed-thats criminal damage and theft and adequate reason as the owner or the representatives of the owner to get the gardaí involved.

sorella

We got the Gardai to impound rams a few years back. Someone was dumping them at our gate with their legs tied together, or throwing them over the fence.

Had no idea it was so difficult:)

They told me once that it is the manpower and expense of doing it that makes them hesitate.

If the cattle are untagged the Dept of Ag will come straight out... We had that also..... we insisted, simply. We were very new in Ireland then.

Saying they will be impounded is the most effective way as the owners have to pay to reclaim them and do it within a set time.

There is also a law in Ireland that says that if the cattle are deliberatley on your land for I think it is 14 days, then they become yours. As long as you have informed the owners that they are "straying" or made genuine efforts to do so . Which you have

I doubt these farmers would try to take you to court. They are totally in the wrong.

MDFM

sorella wrote: »

We got the Gardai to impound rams a few years back. Someone was dumping them at our gate with their legs tied together, or throwing them over the fence.

Had no idea it was so difficult:)

They told me once that it is the manpower and expense of doing it that makes them hesitate.

If the cattle are untagged the Dept of Ag will come straight out... We had that also..... we insisted, simply. We were very new in Ireland then.

Saying they will be impounded is the most effective way as the owners have to pay to reclaim them and do it within a set time.

There is also a law in Ireland that says that if the cattle are deliberatley on your land for I think it is 14 days, then they become yours. As long as you have informed the owners that they are "straying" or made genuine efforts to do so . Which you have

I doubt these farmers would try to take you to court. They are totally in the wrong.

Really, there is such a law???? How do they become yours and can you claim the cards from the owner of the animal then or how does it work? I'm farming all my life and have often encountered problems such as straying animals, but thats the 1st time i've ever heard of that law.

sorella

We were told this and then googled it.

Have a look at this; scroll down to the appropriate trespass section:)

http://www.ispca.ie/content/legal4.html

sorella

still searching for the other part; we were told this by a govt official and by a vet.