Raw -Spoilers- 30/6/08

Double C · 03-07-2008 2:08pm

rovert wrote: »

Pardon?

Dont all heels have this "gimmick."

Yeah but MVP says it. You've seen Punk in ROH right? I'd like to see him eventually break out the "gimmick" he was doing in late 2003 during his feud with Raven.

JP Liz · 03-07-2008 2:27pm

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Who'd be the face and who'd be the heel? If Jeff was the face, it wuld only work if they approached his drug use the way they did with Eddie G in his feud with Angle.

I think Jeff would have to be the face and he is way over more than Punk.

I would love to see a feud between CM Punk and Jeff Hardy hopefully it might happen later down the line

rossie1977 · 03-07-2008 2:47pm

rovert wrote: »

it did look like **** tho

in comparison to lesnars fireman carry on akebono in japan it looked great

performing the gts, any gts on a huge guy like jbl requires skill he could easily have kevin nashed it lol

i would love to see him attempt one on mark henry though

Handsome Bob · 03-07-2008 2:49pm

JP Liz wrote: »

I think Jeff would have to be the face and he is way over more than Punk.

I would love to see a feud between CM Punk and Jeff Hardy hopefully it might happen later down the line

Oh I agree, i'm just saying the feud would only work if they approached Jeff Hardy's drug use as they did with Eddie G in his feud with Angle. It's not going to work if Jeff comes out and says "Hey Punk, you're lame for being straightedge and thinking you're better than me, drug use is cool!"

rovert · 03-07-2008 3:01pm

Double C wrote: »

Yeah but MVP says it.

???

Handsome Bob · 03-07-2008 3:07pm

rovert wrote: »

???

He's saying that one of MVP's lines or "catchphrases" is "......because I am better than you."

rovert · 03-07-2008 4:04pm

LZ5by5 wrote: »

He's saying that one of MVP's lines or "catchphrases" is "......because I am better than you."

No he said

Double C wrote: »

Punk vs HBK with Punk as a heel, preferably with the Better than You gimmick (damn you MVP for ripping that off!).

Handsome Bob · 03-07-2008 4:09pm

Double C is saying, if there was a Punk heel turn, he would like to see him feud with HBK using the 'heel straightedge' persona of being better than everyoe else. Double C is of the opinion however that MVP has ripped off this persona (his opinion, not mine).

rovert · 03-07-2008 4:12pm

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Double C is saying, if there was a Punk heel turn, he would like to see him feud with HBK using the 'heel straightedge' persona of being better than everyoe else. Double C is of the opinion however that MVP has ripped off this persona (his opinion, not mine).

Direct quotes please since your are acting as his spokesperson.

Fozzy · 03-07-2008 4:22pm

It's obvious what Double C means. He wants Punk to use his old gimmick that he had in ROH where his catchphrase was "I'm better than you". And since MVP says that now, Punk can't really

I don't think that a heel Punk would work now. First of all, he's much smaller than all the faces apart from HBK. Second, I can't see him using the straightedge gimmick as a heel. It worked on the indys as most of the crowd drank, often during the shows. There's a lot more kids in the WWE audience who won't get the gimmick

There's also the problem with using the straight edge gimmick at all. If he's to play it up it suggests that what makes him different from all the other wrestlers is that he doesn't use drugs. I think WWE are more sensitive about issues like that now more than ever and they'd never have Punk using an anti-drug gimmick to get heat

rossie1977 · 03-07-2008 4:37pm

not buying that punk is too small to headline as he is bigger than jericho, kofi and mysterio on raw as well as michaels

he is also as big as kennedy, both hardys and much bigger than all the cruiserweights.

rovert · 03-07-2008 4:40pm

Fozzy wrote: »

It's obvious what Double C means. He wants Punk to use his old gimmick that he had in ROH where his catchphrase was "I'm better than you". And since MVP says that now, Punk can't really

He wasnt talking about about catchphrases he was talking about gimmicks. I want HIM to reply to clear it up hence why I asked him the question.

Double C · 03-07-2008 4:41pm

Jesus Christ.

Yeah, Punks old phrase was "Straight Edge means I'm better than you". In the 3 years since he last used that phrase MVP has started saying that he's better than you, therefore it wouldn't work if Punk started saynig it again as it would seem to the majority of people that Punk was ripping off MVP's line, when really the opposite is (kind of) true.

Sorry if I was vague in my original post :rolleyes:

Danger_Dave · 03-07-2008 4:42pm

rovert wrote: »

I want HIM to reply to clear it up hence why I asked him the question.

Well you dont always get what you want .

Fozzy · 03-07-2008 4:46pm

rossie1977 wrote: »

not buying that punk is too small to headline as he is bigger than jericho, kofi and mysterio on raw as well as michaels

he is also as big as kennedy, both hardys and much bigger than all the cruiserweights.

I didn't say that he was too small to headline. I said that he's too small to be a heel when the faces that he'd be facing would all be much bigger than him, apart from Michaels. I don't think that it would work

rovert · 03-07-2008 5:03pm

Danger_Dave wrote: »

Well you dont always get what you want .

But if you try sometime you find you get what you need

Handsome Bob · 03-07-2008 5:14pm

rovert wrote: »

But if you try sometime you find you get what you need

Ah the Rolling Stones, what a band but I don't really care for that song.....:p

rossie1977 · 03-07-2008 5:24pm

Fozzy wrote: »

I didn't say that he was too small to headline. I said that he's too small to be a heel when the faces that he'd be facing would all be much bigger than him, apart from Michaels. I don't think that it would work

i didn't realise you were talking about turning him heel but even then what about a sneaky heel with a giant bodyguard who helps him win matches. 6'11 350lb mike jarvi has been biding his time in fcw for the best part of a year now

EdK · 03-07-2008 5:57pm

They are kind of already doing that gimmick though really

rovert · 03-07-2008 6:09pm

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Ah the Rolling Stones

No, Bret Hart

rovert · 03-07-2008 6:11pm

Double C wrote: »

Jesus Christ.

Yeah, Punks old phrase was "Straight Edge means I'm better than you". In the 3 years since he last used that phrase MVP has started saying that he's better than you, therefore it wouldn't work if Punk started saynig it again as it would seem to the majority of people that Punk was ripping off MVP's line, when really the opposite is (kind of) true.

Sorry if I was vague in my original post :rolleyes:

So are you saying CM Punk came up with that line?

rovert · 03-07-2008 6:19pm

Ratings breakdown for Raw:

9:00 -- 3.22
9:15 -- 3.62
9:30 -- 3.51
9:45 -- 3.36
10:00 -- 3.79
10:15 -- 3.48
10:30 -- 3.46
10:45 -- 3.43
Overrun -- 4.12

Seems young Phillip created quite the buzz.

Double C · 03-07-2008 6:25pm

rovert wrote: »

So are you saying CM Punk came up with that line?

The Straight Edge means I'm better than you line?

Yeah probably.

rovert · 03-07-2008 6:31pm

Double C wrote: »

The Straight Edge means I'm better than you line?

Yeah probably.

Some fan you are then

Remember you wrote:

Double C wrote: »

Punk vs HBK with Punk as a heel, preferably with the Better than You gimmick (damn you MVP for ripping that off!).

Fozzy · 03-07-2008 6:39pm

rovert wrote: »

Some fan you are then

Remember you wrote:

What's your point? That he used the wrong word?

Double C · 03-07-2008 6:45pm

rovert wrote: »

Some fan you are then

Some pain in the arse you are!

I really dont see you point. You are making a mountain out of a molehille here. My point remains the same, I'd like to see Punk as a heel against Michaels with Punk using the straight edge "gimmick". A large part of the straight edge gimmick was that he would say that he's "better than you" because he was drug free. This would work especially well against the born again christian HBK. But I dont think he can get away with saying "better than you" because MVP has been saying it recently. Understand??

rovert · 03-07-2008 7:16pm

Double C wrote: »

Some pain in the arse you are!

I really dont see you point. You are making a mountain out of a molehille here. My point remains the same, I'd like to see Punk as a heel against Michaels with Punk using the straight edge "gimmick". A large part of the straight edge gimmick was that he would say that he's "better than you" because he was drug free. This would work especially well against the born again christian HBK. But I dont think he can get away with saying "better than you" because MVP has been saying it recently. Understand??

You said MVP ripped off CM Punk and you hold yourself as a career expert of him with an understanding of straight edge. But you dont know where that line came from which does underpin of all it. :eek:

Double C · 03-07-2008 8:51pm

All I know about the straight edge lifestyle is what I hear from Punk. And Ian McKaye from Fugazi. I know it stems fro the hardcore scene in Washington but thats about it. No drink, no drugs, no promiscous sex, no lying no back stabbing etc. Doesn't sound like the best of craic to be fair. Please enlighten me on where the phrase came from. And dont google it.

rovert · 03-07-2008 9:01pm

Double C wrote: »

All I know about the straight edge lifestyle is what I hear from Punk. And Ian McKaye from Fugazi. I know it stems fro the hardcore scene in Washington but thats about it. No drink, no drugs, no promiscous sex, no lying no back stabbing etc. Doesn't sound like the best of craic to be fair. Please enlighten me on where the phrase came from. And dont google it.

Well your response took long enough to where Im sceptical that you didnt google your reply not to mention you are the one who brought google up.

Fozzy · 03-07-2008 9:05pm

rovert, what is your point? Do you really think that Double C spent over an hour and a half on Google to come up with that reply? Nobody has any idea what you're on about

Double C · 03-07-2008 9:12pm

rovert wrote: »

Well your response took long enough to where Im sceptical that you didnt google your reply not to mention you are the one who brought google up.

Ha, no I was just playing 5 a side for the last hour and a half, not sitting by a computer like some people. Im still waiting to hear the true origin of the phrase.

rovert · 03-07-2008 9:14pm

Fozzy wrote: »

rovert, what is your point? Do you really think that Double C spent over an hour and a half on Google to come up with that reply?

I didnt say he did.

Fozzy wrote: »

Nobody has any idea what you're on about

if your not now, then you never were

rovert · 03-07-2008 9:20pm

Double C wrote: »

Ha, no I was just playing 5 a side for the last hour and a half, not sitting by a computer like some people..

I did 15km on my excercise bike

Double C wrote: »

Im still waiting to hear the true origin of the phrase.

Given what you posted you probably should already. Punk's catchphrase is derived from a Minor Threat song. MVP didnt rip of Punk's catchphrase, so dont throw around accusations like than. I know this but Im not a fan of him.

Punk is not original in anyway.

Double C · 03-07-2008 9:39pm

But the straight edge thing is original in the world of pro wrestling, which is what we are here to talk about. Well done for knowing the answer though, I must root out the Minor Threat cds and listem to them again.

I would bet though that MVP heard Punk using that phrase and decided to use it himself. But thats MVP ripping off McKaye and not Punk. Got ya.

rovert · 03-07-2008 9:49pm

Double C wrote: »

I would bet though that MVP heard Punk using that phrase and decided to use it himself. But thats MVP ripping off McKaye and not Punk. Got ya.

Who says it was MVP who heard/ripped off Punk?

Proof?

Double C · 03-07-2008 9:51pm

Well I was talking to MVP the other day...

I didn't say it was true, I saqid I would bet he heard him say it in a promo. He did appear in ROH back when Punk was cutting his teeth with that gimmick.

rovert · 03-07-2008 9:59pm

Double C wrote: »

Well I was talking to MVP the other day...

I didn't say it was true, I saqid I would bet he heard him say it in a promo. He did appear in ROH back when Punk was cutting his teeth with that gimmick.

Well you did say this and which brings me back to my original reply:

Double C wrote: »

Punk vs HBK with Punk as a heel, preferably with the Better than You gimmick (damn you MVP for ripping that off!)

rovert wrote: »

Pardon?

Dont all heels have this "gimmick."

Which is a fair question considering we are talking about Wrestling.

Double C · 03-07-2008 10:06pm

So we go right back to the start do we? I've replied to this already. I'm not going to go quoting myself, its on the previous page.

kelator · 04-07-2008 1:48am

rovert wrote: »

Who says it was MVP who heard/ripped off Punk?

Proof?

Double C, as rovert as already prooved in nearly every thread he has ever posted in, personal opinion does not count for anything, you need hard facts / quatifiable statistics. Therefore I suggest getting a brain scan done while watching any wrestling so that you can get pictures of your brain as you react too different scenarios, then post them here as factual evidence of your opinion.

rovert · 04-07-2008 7:03am

kelator wrote: »

Double C, as rovert as already prooved in nearly every thread he has ever posted in, personal opinion does not count for anything, you need hard facts / quatifiable statistics. Therefore I suggest getting a brain scan done while watching any wrestling so that you can get pictures of your brain as you react too different scenarios, then post them here as factual evidence of your opinion.

Erm, dude this isnt opinion:

Double C wrote: »

Punk vs HBK with Punk as a heel, preferably with the Better than You gimmick (damn you MVP for ripping that off!).

No you didnt

Double C · 04-07-2008 8:32am

Yes I did.

rovert · 04-07-2008 8:37am

Double C wrote: »

Yes I did.

Not to this:

rovert wrote: »

Dont all heels have this "gimmick."

Double C · 04-07-2008 8:52am

I did. I said yes.

rovert · 04-07-2008 9:27am

Double C wrote: »

I did. I said yes.

Where?

Double C · 04-07-2008 10:52am

Post #102.

You asked dont all heels have a better than you gimick. They do to an extent, but not where they say it all the time. "I'm better than you" is a phrase that MVP uses on a regular basis. I might start using it too.

ShawnRaven · 04-07-2008 11:08am

Well "gimmick" from this forum says it too (in his sig), although he claims that because he's from Cork, which is questionable at best.

Hey, does that make him a heel too?

VR!

rovert · 04-07-2008 11:15am

Double C wrote: »

Post #102.

You asked dont all heels have a better than you gimick. They do to an extent, but not where they say it all the time. "I'm better than you" is a phrase that MVP uses on a regular basis. I might start using it too.

How does this answer my question of "Dont all heels have this "gimmick" ?

Double C wrote: »

Yeah but MVP says it. You've seen Punk in ROH right? I'd like to see him eventually break out the "gimmick" he was doing in late 2003 during his feud with Raven.

Spud83 · 04-07-2008 11:20am

Jeez. I would say nearly every wrestler playing either a heel or face has said I am better than you.

However MVP's persistent use of it has turned it into a catchphrase. A catchphrase which is now associated with him within the WWE.

If Punk came out and started saying "I am better than you" persistently or started using it as a catchphrase it would look like he ripping of MVP.

There is a difference between saying "I am better than you" (as Edge has done over the last few weeks with Batista) in a segment, and using it as a catchphrase (as MVP has done since his feud with Matt Hardy).

rovert · 04-07-2008 11:26am

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Jeez. I would say nearly every wrestler playing either a heel or face has said I am better than you.

However MVP's persistent use of it has turned it into a catchphrase. A catchphrase which is now associated with him within the WWE.

If Punk came out and started saying "I am better than you" persistently or started using it as a catchphrase it would look like he ripping of MVP.

There is a difference between saying "I am better than you" (as Edge has done over the last few weeks with Batista) in a segment, and using it as a catchphrase (as MVP has done since his feud with Matt Hardy).

Thats what I was getting at and it is one of the reasons why I questioned Double C about what he said in the first place.

Double C · 04-07-2008 1:25pm

TBH I didn't know Edge had been saying it, I rarely if ever see Smackdown. the few times I have seen it MVP has been using the phrase.

Is a simple yes/no answer to your question not good enough? You asked the question and I said yes. I then elaborated and eluded to the fact that while the majority of heels will have a superiority complex of some sort where they think thay are better than everyone else, it's not common for them to say that phrase. Its typical for heels (and faces for that matter) to believe they are better than everyone else, its another matter saying the phrase. A phrase which was introduced to wrestling (as far as I am concerned) by CM Punk but has been used (ripped off) on a regular basis by MVP (and Edge apparently).

Raw -Spoilers- 30/6/08

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