Why do Ameriacn cars have big engines ?

E92

Ford's Mustang has a 4.0 V6 that manages 210 bhp, and probably does no more than 25 mpg. Audi's latest 2.0 TFSI has 1 bhp more, and averages 43.5 mpg in the A4. If you want V6 thrills then Audi's latest 3.0 TFSI will give at least 290 and up to 333 bhp, but averages 30 mpg. How is the American way better here?

The reason American cars have such big engines is because they're ignorant.

I like big engines as much as the next, and I fuppin hate the way people go for 1.6 BMWs or 1.4 Focus probably more than anyone else here, but what's the point of having a 4.0 V6 with less power than a turbo 2.0 4 banger?

Still though, I wish we could fart around in V6s and especially V8s like they can. American V8s make a most spectacular sound. The one good thing America has done for the Automotive industry:D! I'm also impressed at the way they've been able to effectively ban diesel from cars.

What we need are more cylinders, not more cubic inches:D!

Max_Damage

One vehicle in particular that has an amazingly large engine is the Ford Econoline van (basically an American version of the Ford Transit). You can get one of those vans with a 6.8L Triton V10 engine, which gives out up to 310bhp! :eek: That's more power than a Ferrari 348!

astraboy

Max_Damage wrote: »

One vehicle in particular that has an amazingly large engine is the Ford Econoline van (basically an American version of the Ford Transit). You can get one of those vans with a 6.8L Triton V10 engine, which gives out up to 310bhp! :eek: That's more power than a Ferrari 348!

Drove a large 14 seater one several times on road trips during the last 2 summers, surprizingly cheap to rent when you have 10 people! I had the 5.4L version with the engine from the F150, it can move very swiftly with a full load of people and gear on the highway, the engine has LOADS of low down grunt and just keeps going.

@E92, I too hate the Irish 1.6L specials on forecourts! On a side note I used to "fart around" in a 3.1L v6 chevy lumina on my internship om the US a couple of years ago. Fairly fast, huge car by Irish standards, but handled like a barge. I loved iit!

Max_Damage

American cars kick ass! I just like their 'political incorrectness'!

Ah-Watch

chickenhawk wrote: »

I'm delighted that you live in a place with such great public transport.

I lived in Florida for most of last year and public transport doesn't exist there. Everyone has a huge car which was grand last year cause petrol was cheap. Different story now.

As for one off housing. In towns around me there is no public transport so why should I build a house there? I would have to own a car anyways. So I prefer to build a big house out off the way and use a small car for work and travel.

i actually noticed that in florida that public transport was almost non existant!

unkel

peasant wrote: »

Personally, I prefer cubic meters (of usable space)

Usable space? This isn't a forum about caravans, dude. Oh wait, we have some subforums for that

Personally, I prefer poke. Good old V8 petrol poke. The like that comes with rumble. Even when just starting the engine

Teh Russ

The other reason American cars have big engines is that most Americans never learn to drive cars with a manual gearbox, and automatic transmissions and small engines don't mix very well, effectively making a small car even more underpowered...

Also, a manual transmission doesn't go too well with the American car culture - you need that extra hand free for talking on the mobile, drinking coffee, smoking a fag, putting on makeup, eating McDonalds and all that other stuff they do while behind the wheel.

Stephen

California banned the use of mobiles while driving recently, and I think they are the first of the US states to do that. The amount of bitching about it is epic.

Teh Russ

Stephen wrote: »

California banned the use of mobiles while driving recently, and I think they are the first of the US states to do that. The amount of bitching about it is epic.

It's been banned here in New Jersey since last year... it wasn't a popular decision, but it looks like everyone's gone handsfree now - you see a lot more people with silly Bluetooth headsets than you used to.

Eoin

E92 wrote: »

I like big engines as much as the next, and I fuppin hate the way people go for 1.6 BMWs or 1.4 Focus probably more than anyone else here

Why? Some people (rightly) just couldn't care less about the performance. It means zero to them for dropping the kids to school, or for doing the shopping.

SouperComputer

Part of it is psychology, part of it is nessesity. On the way to work, im generally travlling anything form 65-85MPH with the flow of traffic (irrespective of posted limit, thats how the traffic is flowing.). I would have to ring the ****x out of a typical (ie non FI) 1.6, 1.8 or even 2.0 to get onto the freeway somewhat safely and be able to manouvre around as needed.. Ive driven some smaller (read 2.0) cars here, and the experience on the freeway in the city is, well, less than fun.

Theres a huge stigma here against the 4 cylinder engine. its gotta be 6 or more. Like someone else said, the somthing VR6 here is a student's car, its a beater you get for a while. Same with a Celica, it widely regarded as a POS.

Its hilarious though, 30MPG is a selling point! Things are changing, people are dropping ther silly bricks on wheels (Lookup Chevrolet Suburban) for something more "economical". Conversely this is bad for the environment. Typically a car has doe 80% of the damage that it ever will before it even leaves the showroom. Think about the metal mining, refining, moulding, manufacturing, R&D and the transport of the car and its starts to make sense.

Let be honest, people arent doing this to save the environment, they are doing it to save money. Should be interesting to see what happens here if pump prices hit $8/Gal.

Fro the most part, I think its been the "buy american" attitude from american makers in their marketing that has caused consumers to get a bad deal and development to slow. The Camry and Tundra are the best things to ever happen to the american motor industry IMO, at least from a consumer's side.

Then theres the fact that a lot of the cars arent made in america anyway The the Dodge Charger, big, aggressive american car, sold and bought as such. Made in Canada. Hilarious!

Then you get the people that think Dodge are great and Chevy suck and vice versa.....they always give me a chuckle. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Max_Damage

SouperComputer wrote: »

Then theres the fact that a lot of the cars arent made in america anyway The the Dodge Charger, big, aggressive american car, sold and bought as such. Made in Canada

This is true for alot of stereotypical oversized Yank tanks, such as the Crown Vic (made in Canada) and the Pontiac GTO (the last generation anyway, which was based on the Holden Monaro, was built in Australia FFS!)

SouperComputer

Max_Damage wrote: »

This is true for alot of stereotypical oversized Yank tanks, such as the Crown Vic (made in Canada) and the Pontiac GTO (the last generation anyway, which was based on the Holden Monaro, was built in Australia FFS!)

I think the funniest is the rebadged "captive imports": Geo Metro (Suzuki Swift) Geo Prism (Toyota Corolla), Dodge Stealth (Mitsubishi 3000GT), Dodge Sprinter (Merc Sprinter Van). But a lot of people wont touch "them foreign cars" LOL.

Max_Damage

The best has to be the Opel/Vauxhall Omega, which was branded as a Cadillac Catera!

Teh Russ

Max_Damage wrote: »

The best has to be the Opel/Vauxhall Omega, which was branded as a Cadillac Catera!

The current Vectra and Astra are sold over here by Saturn (another GM division) - the Astra's still the Astra, but the Vectra's been given a new boot and rear lights, and is sold as the Aura.

Consider this... over in Europe, the Vectra was always considered to be average at best, when compared to the likes of the Mondeo... and yet, the Aura and its sister car, the Chevy Malibu (both based on the Vectra) are getting best-in-class reviews over here.

sesswhat

Teh Russ wrote: »

Consider this... over in Europe, the Vectra was always considered to be average at best, when compared to the likes of the Mondeo... and yet, the Aura and its sister car, the Chevy Malibu (both based on the Vectra) are getting best-in-class reviews over here.

But then what is it being compared with?

Max_Damage

Compared to all the Japanese and European imports I reckon.

The Ford Mondeo was sold over in America as the Ford Contour I think. It failed miserably. I think the Ford Focus was the only European car to be a 'hit' in America, although I think the build quality of the Ameircan-spec. model isn't up to par with the European ones.

I think this thread has gone off in a bit of a tangent!

Teh Russ

sesswhat wrote: »

But then what is it being compared with?

Its biggest competitors in the mass-market "midsize" segment are the Toyota Camry, the Mazda6 and the Ford Fusion (a Mondeo-sized car, nothing to do with the jacked-up Fiesta sold in Europe as the Fusion). I'd say the Camry's the best car out of that group, but, if you pay a bit more, you're into 3-series/VW Passat/Audi A4 territory, not to mention the more premium US-made midsizers, like the Cadillac CTS (which is actually a very, very good car).

Ford did sell the Mk1 and Mk2 Mondeo in the US as the Contour (and Mercury Mystique) - it generally got good reviews over here (especially the sporty SVT version), but sales suffered because, despite being a smaller car than Ford's fullsize Taurus, it cost about the same, and Americans historically always go for size over sophistication.

The Focus did do well (and continues to), but, like I said in a previous post, they didn't update it along with the rest of the world, and the current US Focus is simply a facelifted version of the original model. They've also ditched both the hatchback and estate bodystyles, leaving only an ugly saloon and an even uglier coupe. Observe:

cancan

Max_Damage wrote: »

This is true for alot of stereotypical oversized Yank tanks, such as the Crown Vic (made in Canada) and the Pontiac GTO (the last generation anyway, which was based on the Holden Monaro, was built in Australia FFS!)

Don't forget those American BMW's everyone drives in europe, South African VW's, Porsches from Finland....

Even airbus/vw are opening in america, cos europe has priced itself out of the market place for workers....

The Ford GT is prob the only sporty ford they have built properly in the last 15 years.
FWD Focus RS.... Common lads, make it 4wd....

Max_Damage

The Ford GT is prob the only sporty ford they have built properly in the last 15 years.
FWD Focus RS.... Common lads, make it 4wd....

We need another old skool RWD car, like the Ford Sierra (or Merkur as they were called in America).

E92

Ford are going back to selling the same car worldwide, starting with the Fiesta. Future US Fords will be the same as ours at the lower end of the scale anyway. The Mondeo didn't sell well in the US because it was too small. The Mk3 and Mk4 Mondeo of course are much bigger cars, yet Ford never sold them over there.

GM announced ages ago that future Saturns would be identical to Opel/Vauxhall here.

Toyota isn't the world's most profitable car maker for nothing, and not for nothing do they sell the Corolla and the Yaris worldwide. The cost savings of a worldwide model are just too great to ignore these days, what with ever increasing safety and environmental pressures these days.

galwaytt

E92 wrote: »

Toyota isn't the world's most profitable car maker for nothing,

actually, that mantle belongs to Porsche. Any co that can buy the entire VW group - from cash - must be doing something right......

alastair

SouperComputer wrote: »

Part of it is psychology, part of it is nessesity. On the way to work, im generally travlling anything form 65-85MPH with the flow of traffic (irrespective of posted limit, thats how the traffic is flowing.). I would have to ring the ****x out of a typical (ie non FI) 1.6, 1.8 or even 2.0 to get onto the freeway somewhat safely and be able to manouvre around as needed.. Ive driven some smaller (read 2.0) cars here, and the experience on the freeway in the city is, well, less than fun.

Not my experience. Southern California is freeway central, and perfectly manageable in a 1.6 - particularly if it's a manual. The numbers of sluggish old Beetles, Karmann Ghias, Mark 1 Golfs/Rabbits, let alone 1 litre Geo Metros/Swifts on the freeway tells it's own story - they've been plugging away like this for their entire lives.

il gatto

alastair wrote: »

Not my experience. Southern California is freeway central, and perfectly manageable in a 1.6 - particularly if it's a manual. The numbers of sluggish old Beetles, Karmann Ghias, Mark 1 Golfs/Rabbits, let alone 1 litre Geo Metros/Swifts on the freeway tells it's own story - they've been plugging away like this for their entire lives.

I would wonder about that too. Struggling to keep the pace with 85mph traffic in a 2.0lt? I have a 1.8lt Alfa 156 with 144bhp. It has a tested top spedd of 136mph. It's quick but no rocketship. I have never struggled to cruise at 80-85 and accellerate sharpish from 60-85 in top gear.

il gatto

By the way, if our cars and fuel cost the same as the U.S. I'd have a new Mustang Shelby (in blue).

Teh Russ

E92 wrote: »

Ford are going back to selling the same car worldwide, starting with the Fiesta. Future US Fords will be the same as ours at the lower end of the scale anyway. The Mondeo didn't sell well in the US because it was too small. The Mk3 and Mk4 Mondeo of course are much bigger cars, yet Ford never sold them over there.

I think the issue was that the Mondeo/Contour was only a little bigger than the US version of the Escort, but cost more or less the same as the bigger Taurus thanks to being imported from Europe.

The Mercury version did a bit better - I certainly see more of those out and about than the Ford version, and since Mercury is one of Ford's "premium" brands, they could get away with the higher price.

All I know is that Ford in the US need to pull their finger out - all their other international divisions are profitable, yet they're losing money hand over fist in the US. It's great that they'll be standardising their range across the world - the US needs the new Focus and Fiesta, and Ford in Australia has some great bigger V6/V8 RWD cars that the US could import to replace the likes of the Crown Vic.

SouperComputer

alastair wrote: »

Not my experience. Southern California is freeway central, and perfectly manageable in a 1.6 - particularly if it's a manual. The numbers of sluggish old Beetles, Karmann Ghias, Mark 1 Golfs/Rabbits, let alone 1 litre Geo Metros/Swifts on the freeway tells it's own story - they've been plugging away like this for their entire lives.

I haven't driven in SC so I can't comment on driving there really. Sure I could get around in a 1.0L, but I would have a stream of muppets in brick-shaped SUV's sitting my a$$ while the little 40/50BHP car gradually, painfully gets up to speed. Some of the entry ramps are pretty short here too. Even with the 1.8T beetle I have to give it a fair bit of welly if I want to merge "properly".

Im not saying the cars wont get up to speed ( A lot of 1.0L's will crack triple digits eventually) , its the time it takes to get there thats the issue.

Teh Russ

SouperComputer wrote: »

I haven't driven in SC so I can't comment on driving there really. Sure I could get around in a 1.0L, but I would have a stream of muppets in brick-shaped SUV's sitting my your a$$ while the little 40BHP car gradually, painfully gets up to speed. Some of the entry ramps are pretty short here too.

Im not saying the cars wont get up to speed ( A lot of 1.0L's will crack triple digits eventually) , its the time it takes to get there thats the issue.

Did you see that Geo Metros are currently selling for up to $8k on Ebay? Not long ago people were lucky to get $500 for them. Despite their 1-litre feebleness, people are buying them in droves thanks to the gas prices!

SouperComputer

Teh Russ wrote: »

Did you see that Geo Metros are currently selling for up to $8k on Ebay? Not long ago people were lucky to get $500 for them. Despite their 1-litre feebleness, people are buying them in droves thanks to the gas prices!

Hadnt TBH. Who thinks they will save even 2K over the life of the cars is nuts IMO, even with the way prices are going But it doesnt surprise me. TDi's were commanding quite a premium for a while. one wonders what will happen when gas\petrol is actually expensive here and we have somthing to complain about haha.

Teh Russ

SouperComputer wrote: »

Hadnt TBH. Who thinks they will save even 2K over the life of the cars is nuts IMO, even with the way prices are going But it doesnt surprise me. TDi's were commanding quite a premium for a while. one wonders what will happen when gas\petrol is actually expensive here and we have somthing to complain about haha.

TDIs are losing their popularity now that diesel is nearly a dollar more than gas per gallon... it gets worse during winter too, as many people here run their central heating and hot water off diesel fuel and demand goes right up.

I'm a diesel fan, but I do think that hybrids will be the way forward out here, certainly in the shorter term.

I am definitely seeing a lot more old 4-cylinder cars out on the roads lately though - seems a lot of old Dodge Shadows, Chevy Cavaliers and Corollas seem to have been pulled out of mothballs and put back on the road. This is a good thing though - better to use them than have them just sitting there going rusty in someone's back yard.

SouperComputer

I am definitely seeing a lot more old 4-cylinder cars out on the roads lately though - seems a lot of old Dodge Shadows, Chevy Cavaliers and Corollas seem to have been pulled out of mothballs and put back on the road. This is a good thing though - better to use them than have them just sitting there going rusty in someone's back yard.

Yea its good alright. In a lot of cases, better for the environment than buying a new Prius or whatever unless its burning oil like a beat or whatnot.

Diesel was never that popular over here, sure, its more expensive per unit, but you also use less units per mile. The high sulphur content meant it never really cought on.

As for Hybrid, meh. Ive yet to see somthing thats actually effecive to the point where its worth putting into production. Prius is a fashion accessory as far as im concerned, it does very little good for the environment overall.

Max_Damage

Americans could try cycling to work instead of driving.... or is that too much of an alien concept to them!?

SouperComputer

Max_Damage wrote: »

Americans could try cycling to work instead of driving.... or is that too much of an alien concept to them!?

Indeed, as could people in many countries don't you think? Personally, Im not going to cycle 30 miles a day, especially when its -30 degrees outside.

chickenhawk

Max_Damage wrote: »

Americans could try cycling to work instead of driving.... or is that too much of an alien concept to them!?

I was walking to the shop once in florida and a cop pulled his car over (and I sh1t you not, he had a bag doughnuts and mcdonalds in the passenger seat). He asked me where I was walking to and why. No one walks there.

Max_Damage

SouperComputer wrote: »

Im not going to cycle 30 miles a day, especially when its -30 degrees outside.

It'll make a man out of you! :P

SouperComputer

chickenhawk wrote: »

I was walking to the shop once in florida and a cop pulled his car over (and I sh1t you not, he had a bag doughnuts and mcdonalds in the passenger seat). He asked me where I was walking to and why. No one walks there.

That should be someone's signature, its classic! It is annoying though, even if yoiu are at the shopping "mall" theres no "walkways" to go from one buling to another, so you end up walking across field and crud for the sake of a 300ft walk.

Max Damage wrote:

It'll make a man out of you!

Or make me whimper like a little girl when I slip on ice and lay on the ground freezing like an ice pop