Robbie to Liverpool ? WHY BOTHER ANYMORE???

therecklessone

anonymous_joe wrote: »

West Ham? Don't they spend staggering wages?

Can't really comment about Pompey or Spurs wages bills, don't know much about them though.

West Ham currently don't have a pot to p1ss in and are hawking their higher earners around the PL on free transfers trying to reduce their wages bill. The Icelandic consortium behind the club poured significant personal money into the club, they are now taking a beating on the financial markets and West Ham do not have the revenue streams to cover that expenditure.

Pompey are also running at a significant loss, this year's TV money will help mask that but unless they experience a long cup run coupled with a top 6 challenge this year they will be in trouble. Fratton Park is simply too small, and building a new ground will cost serious £££.

Spurs are financially very tight, good ratio of wages to income, good shirt and sponsorship deals and likely to make a small fortune from UEFA Cup TV deals as we have done the last two seasons.

Mr Alan

therecklessone wrote: »

good shirt and sponsorship deals.

better than Liverpool.

another example of how we've been mismanaged and the top 4 dont have it all their way!!;)

therecklessone

Mr Alan wrote: »

In fairness Recklessone, footballers are always attracted to bigger more successful clubs,always have been, always will be. thats nothing to do with the money involved or Sky or anything like that.

Al, I'm in partial agreement. The CL in particular has prompted a mass exodus to the top sides, so much so that some players are happy going to clubs to be 3rd or 4th choice rather than 1st choice at another club.

The other sides simply have to adjust to that reality, I have a long time ago. Some choose to offer stupid money and mortgage their future to try and step up (Leeds, Newcastle under Sheppard, West Ham lately) but I'm always wary of a player who'll sacrifice a shot at success (or a chance to challenge oneself in a more competitive league/Euro competition) for more money.

Nekkid's point seems to be that if only the chasing pack spent more wisely they'd be better off, that's also true to an extent bu not in the way he describes. Everton are now a top 6 side IMO because Moyes has spent wisely on the likes of Yakubu and Lescott (while retaining Cahill and more importantly Arteta), Villa will push for top 6 next year because they have spent on Young etc. Blackburn with Mark Hughes and a few more £ might have done the same.

Last summer was a failure in the transfer market for us, no question, but not because the players we bought were rubbish but because we paid over the odds, and didn't address key areas of concern (GK, CB and DMC). If our outlay last year was £20m instead of £40m nobody would bat an eyelid.

therecklessone

Mr Alan wrote: »

better than Liverpool.

another example of how we've been mismanaged and the top 4 dont have it all their way!!;)

Worth pointing out Al that many deride the concept that football is a business, it is a simple fact of the modern game that careful husbandry of the finances is essential to sustained progress on the field.

Mr Alan

therecklessone wrote: »

it is a simple fact of the modern game that careful husbandry of the finances is essential to sustained progress on the field.

Liverpool fans know this all too well mate

shane86

MuPpItJoCkEy wrote: »

I do agree but he hasn't always been bad for Ireland considering he's our top scorer and does have the ability to continue scoring goals considering he does it at club level and with a team that's not top 4.

The difference is that I believe Ireland now have a good experienced manager who knows what he is doing unlike our last manager so I am hoping that he can bring out the best in Keane once again.

He is top scorer but in truth he hasnt scored a decisive goal when we were still in with a shout of progression in donkeys years. IIRC the last away goal he scored that helped us advance anywhere was in the 2002 WC! Since then he has a hatrick against San Marino at home, an away goal in Wales when we were already out and a few away friendly goals.

Isnt the top end of Liverpool getting a bit crowded? Babel, Gerrard, Kuyt, Torres, now possibly Keane and Barry. None of these players would be happy not to play every game.

Dont be at yourself

Absolutely, careful husbandry of finances (I love it) is essential. However, Arsenal and Liverpool's transfer, if not wage, budgets are very much in step with teams down the table. The difference is that, for the same money, the big four seem to get more bang for their book. This is partly due to a bigger reputation and wage budget, but the impact of a scouting network, transfer policy and willingness to take a risk also play their part.

I realise that if a player is given a choice between Arsenal/Liverpool and Spurs/Villa, they'll choose the former 9 times out of 10. However, signings like Berbatov, Young, Arteta, Cahill, McCarthy, Santa Cruz and hopefully Modric and Dos Santos show that a combination of a good scouting network, a willingness to take a risk and swift action in the transfer market can attract top talent to these clubs.

There is a financial gulf, but it's not a big one, and it's certainly possible to overcome.

And to return to the overall point: Everton showed in 2005 that a top four finish is achievable. Were it not for Spurs having pre-game food poisoning, we may not even be having this conversation now - that is how fine the line is. Had Spurs not sacked Jol mid-season, and spent 16 million on Bent, they may have been challenging again this year.

therecklessone

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Absolutely, careful husbandry of finances (I love it) is essential. However, Arsenal and Liverpool's transfer, if not wage, budgets are very much in step with teams down the table. The difference is that, for the same money, the big four seem to get more bang for their book. This is partly due to a bigger reputation and wage budget, but the impact of a scouting network, transfer policy and willingness to take a risk also play their part.

The chasing pack start from a much lower base than the top 4 sides, and can either spend as little as Arsenal (and settle for League 2 starlets and the best the Polish league has to offer) or spend more than both sides in an effort to raise the overall standard of their sides.

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Had Spurs not sacked Jol mid-season, and spent 16 million on Bent, they may have been challenging again this year.

For the Championship perhaps.

estebancambias

shane86 wrote: »

He is top scorer but in truth he hasnt scored a decisive goal when we were still in with a shout of progression in donkeys years. IIRC the last away goal he scored that helped us advance anywhere was in the 2002 WC! Since then he has a hatrick against San Marino at home, an away goal in Wales when we were already out and a few away friendly goals.

Isnt the top end of Liverpool getting a bit crowded? Babel, Gerrard, Kuyt, Torres, now possibly Keane and Barry. None of these players would be happy not to play every game.

No...No wait, he hasn't got the 'same calibre' of players playing with him, so how could he play well for Ireland.:rolleyes:

Even though he has had a Chelsea left winger playing with him, a really promising young midfielder playing with him, and indeed a former team mate of his.

But really I think he has played well for Ireland in big games....for example against Spain in 2002, and Iran in 2002 as well. He grabbed three goals in that world cup which was a good return.

therecklessone

ITK news on Spurs sites suggest ManYoo have made a take it or leave it bid for Berbatov. The bid is not known, but we're told it's less than the valuation Spurs have put on the Bulgarian's head (and I believe the up front sum is considered too low)

Time to play hardball methinks.

anonymous_joe

Do Spurs need to sell?

I'd like to see Berbatov at United, but I wonder do Spurs have a replacement lined up, or is this a case of just wanting extra cash?

Mitch Connor

therecklessone wrote: »

ITK news on Spurs sites suggest ManYoo have made a take it or leave it bid for Berbatov. The bid is not known, but we're told it's less than the valuation Spurs have put on the Bulgarian's head (and I believe the up front sum is considered too low)

Time to play hardball methinks.

the bid I have seen reported is 18million with 10million in clauses. Which from a United point of view would be a fantastic deal; but I can certainly understand why Spurs would tell United to go jump. United need to buy, Spurs don't ned to sell - its all up to Spurs.

therecklessone

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Do Spurs need to sell?

I'd like to see Berbatov at United, but I wonder do Spurs have a replacement lined up, or is this a case of just wanting extra cash?

We're supposed to be interested in a umber of players, I'm certain the club have a list of potential replacements.

That's not the point though, as Tauren said United's rumoured offer is a great deal for United. Spurs need to extract maximum value if he leaves, the sides we'll be trying to sign players off will add a few £m on to their asking prices knowing we have cash in the bank from a Berbatov transfer, and it will be very hard to get another striker of his ability even for £18m.

Dont be at yourself

Berbatov seems to be United's number 1, and only, target for the summer, so I can see Spurs playing hardball. They don't need to sell, so this could drag out.

Santa Cruz and Espanyol's Luis Garcia are both heavily linked with Spurs - could they have a whole new strike-force next year?

Selling Keane and Berbatov could bring in over 50 million sterling in today's market. They could get another 10 or so for Bent to the likes of Sunderland. That would go a long, long way for Ramos to build his own squad.

mayordenis

agreed for the likes of 60m you would probably still have upwards of 30 to play around with if they got both santa cruz and garcia,
be good for them to have a nice warchest going into january aswell,
saying that I would rather pool got Santa Cruz (not because of one good season) but he's the only striker out there who's good looking enough to partner Torres. He might actually be better looking

PHB

The problem Spurs have is that ultimately, United can take or leave Berbatov. They wanted to try shift him abroad but there was not a huge amount of interest it seems. Berbatov wants to leave, and he wants to go to United. Ultimately, I can't see Ramos wanting to keep Berbatov around. Then again, maybe he'll stick to his guns.

The thing is though, there are certainly other areas of the pitch that need more focus. Keane and Bent is a pretty decent strike force. Spurs playing hardball with Berbatov means they can't do their own business, which is probably what Utd are hoping for.

GuanYin

You don't win things by letting your best players leave or selling them to the teams above you. Reinvesting the money will help, but all players are so inflated these days that I'm unsure if Spurs could get better players for the money they'll get, unless it is *very* silly.

They haven't invested well. They didn't need Bent, he was a poor, poor buy for them and I'd have Defoe in my team instead. The money they got for Defoe vs. what they spent on Bent is just bad business.

It isn't about the money they spend, it is how they spend it.

It would be just stupid to say something like : " Really to break into the top 4, they're going to have to outspend teams like Arsenal"

Mr Alan

back OT, the best, bar none, source for Liverpool information is a poster on YNWA.tv called ElishaScott, he is a friend of Steven Gerrards (supposedly, i obviously cant vouch for this), he has actually appeared in the "year in the life of Steven Gerrard" on Sky not long ago as far as i know....

in the last few days he has said;

after the news of Utds berba bid broke and fans were worried it meant Keane wouldnt be leaving;

elisha scott wrote:

Dont panic, I think the Keane thing is close to being finalised.

and then today to follow up..............

elisha scott wrote:

Keane will be signed by the weekend.

followed by

elisha scott wrote:

Should i have stated that it is reliant on nobody from either party, having a massive change of heart? I hope people realise if it doesn't happen, its not my fault.

now i dont know this bloke, so it could be ****e, but Liverpool fans take him very seriously, and he is rarely/never wrong.

Dont be at yourself

The problem Spurs have is that ultimately, United can take or leave Berbatov. They wanted to try shift him abroad but there was not a huge amount of interest it seems. Berbatov wants to leave, and he wants to go to United. Ultimately, I can't see Ramos wanting to keep Berbatov around. Then again, maybe he'll stick to his guns.

In a way, it's similar to the Barry situation betwwen Villa and Liverpool. The difference is, Man Utd are perhaps more likely (and able) to cough up an extra couple of million, whereas Rafa is reportedly working on a shoestring, and has also proved to be almost unmovable when it comes to his valuations. I can't see Fergie giving up on Berbatov for the sake of a few million extra - especially as he's been after him for a long time now.

The thing is though, there are certainly other areas of the pitch that need more focus. Keane and Bent is a pretty decent strike force. Spurs playing hardball with Berbatov means they can't do their own business, which is probably what Utd are hoping for.

Absolutely. Currently, Spurs's strongest position is undoubtedly up front. You have to wonder about their transfer budget though - they've brought in Modric and Dos Santos already, Gomes is waiting in his work permit, and I read that they've spent 100 million over the previous 3 transfer windows. Despite this, there are still positions that need to be addressed - particularly in central defence and midfield. If the money's not there, I can see Ramos cashing in on a striker, or two, bringing in cheaper replacements and spending the surplus on some Spanish imports for defense and midfield!

therecklessone

GuanYin wrote: »

They haven't invested well. They didn't need Bent, he was a poor, poor buy for them and I'd have Defoe in my team instead. The money they got for Defoe vs. what they spent on Bent is just bad business.

The two aren't really related, Defoe wouldn't sign a new contract because he couldn't displace Keane and Berbatov and knew his chances of playing would be limited. Considering the length of his remaining contract I think we did a great bit of business with Defoe going.

If Rafa Benitez continued to play one striker up top but signed Defoe, he'd still be sitting on the bench with Torres being favoured. Defoe has done well at Pompey precisely because he is top dog there.

Bent's transfer was Charlton doing exactly what we should be doing with Berbatov, extracting maximum £££ from the buying club. Charlton were helped by the fact that evene if Spurs refused to match the £16.5m price tag they could have settled for £10m+ and still paid a few post-PL bills plus got a few players in for the Championship.

Where we are at a disadvantage is that we have to replace a very good player when other sides will want to inflate their asking prices to try and get some of United's cash off us...

therecklessone

PHB wrote: »

The problem Spurs have is that ultimately, United can take or leave Berbatov. They wanted to try shift him abroad but there was not a huge amount of interest it seems. Berbatov wants to leave, and he wants to go to United. Ultimately, I can't see Ramos wanting to keep Berbatov around. Then again, maybe he'll stick to his guns.

The problem is if we let him go for too little, who will be next? The top PL sides will continue to see us as a selling club (which to an extent we are) but will be convinced that we can be pressured down on asking price because of the PLC need to balance the books/turn in a profit.

Bale, Hutton and Modric will all be in the sights of other sides.

If we let him go to a European side for less than MU bid it won't have quite the same effect IMO, as it will be clear we attach a premium to a player moving to a competitor. And there is interest PHB, just not at the asking price (I'm told £25m from a European side would seal the deal)

The fee will help us strengthen other areas, but if Berbatov stays I can see Keane going, and it would be much easier to replace him (and for less)

I aslo think we'll recoup £10m or so from the sale of other squad players, Robinson, Boateng, Gardner, Chimbonda etc.

estebancambias

As a Spurs fan said, Berbatov has a price, Keane is priceless.

This is from someone who attends every game. His point that its easier to replace Berbatov. Sure they won't have the same technical ability, but much more work rate which will improve the team.

Personally I believe Keane in his early days could have been a really really really top striker...Torres level. I don't think he fufilled it, but he's still brilliant.

Perfect partner for Torres, much better than Villa IMO. I think Keane is smarter than Villa.

therecklessone

estebancambias wrote: »

As a Spurs fan said, Berbatov has a price, Keane is priceless.

This is from someone who attends every game. His point that its easier to replace Berbatov. Sure they won't have the same technical ability, but much more work rate which will improve the team.

Odd, Keane can't head a ball and I can't remember the last time he put a tackle in...maybe it's all the arm flapping that has your source confused...:D

Ekels

estebancambias wrote: »

As a Spurs fan said, Berbatov has a price, Keane is priceless.

This is from someone who attends every game. His point that its easier to replace Berbatov. Sure they won't have the same technical ability, but much more work rate which will improve the team.

Personally I believe Keane in his early days could have been a really really really top striker...Torres level. I don't think he fufilled it, but he's still brilliant.

Perfect partner for Torres, much better than Villa IMO. I think Keane is smarter than Villa.

I've actually read a post by a massive Yid fan on another forum who had a similar opinion.
I agree that Keane and Torres would be a very brilliant strike partnership.

If you look at it from United's point of view, they could easily turn around and offer 25million for a Robinho or Huntelaar or even less for Roque Santa Cruz. Their hands aren't tied. However, I think it's been made clear by Berba in the past (although, interestingly, on this occasion, he hasn't done a Garreth Barry) that he would like to leave Spurs, should a CL side make a reasonable offer.

Having seen those 4 goals against Wigan (?), it's quite clear what a gifted finisher Berba is. I've know doubt he'll link up brilliantly with Rooney, Tevez and Ronaldo.