I see the bin charge rip-off escalates...

blastman

Got a letter through the door today from Fingal looking for 60 Euro for the green and brown bins, to be paid by the end of August. That soundbite they sent around earlier about no-one being asked to pay 110 Euro before 2009 sounds more like doublespeak than ever. Concerned about the environment, my a$$!!

The Hill Billy

I haven't received anything as yet, but my understanding is that they aren't asking for €110 until next year, but want each household to pay for the remaining 6 months of this year (hence the €60 charge). Is that correct?

Moonbeam

I got it last week,apparently we only have to pay for 2 months this year;)

Rumour has it bins are going up to 10 euro per collection too.

I noticed some people have panda bins so had a look -

http://www.panda.ie/household/fingal_waste_management_prices.aspx

greatgoal

tags remaining at 8euro until the end of 2009,according to councils help line.

PWEI

I had a rep from the council call to my house last week.I wasn't there at the time but he told my wife that our bin wouldn't be collected unless we pay the €60.Now I have no problem paying but didn't the council say they wouldn't be charging people until all brown bins were rolled out.Because to date there is still no brown bins in my estate.

greatgoal

no reps have been calling anywhere from the council,the rep your good wife was talking to was a rep from panda,they told my pensioner mother the same and that the council will be ceasing their refuse collections in the near future anyway and she would be better off taking the panda bins at the rate they were giving now as their prices will rise significantly in the future,talk about taking advantage of an oap,its a disgrace.

Rashers72

Can you claim tax relief of the Fingal Co Co annual charge, as well as the bin tags?

meditraitor

Rashers72 wrote: »

Can you claim tax relief of the Fingal Co Co annual charge, as well as the bin tags?

I believe as far as the tax man is concerned they are one and the same.

Check this out
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/environment/waste-management-and-recycling/tax_relief_on_domestic_service_charges/?searchterm=tax%20waste

tiredmam

Well i changed to Panda since April and i STILL got this in the door. FingalCoCo still didnt pick up their bins from here either.
Panda collect every week, not 3 weeks out of 4.

Neil_Sedaka

tiredmam wrote: »

Well i changed to Panda since April and i STILL got this in the door. FingalCoCo still didnt pick up their bins from here either.
Panda collect every week, not 3 weeks out of 4.

Yeah, I got the letter too and have been with Panda for a couple of months now.

I rang Panda weeks ago and THEY took away my council bins for me

tiredmam

Neil_Sedaka wrote: »

Yeah, I got the letter too and have been with Panda for a couple of months now.

I rang Panda weeks ago and THEY took away my council bins for me

Really??? and what did they do with them? Before i ring FingalCoCo would be good to know.
I dont have a driveway so im sick looking at them at my front door. Plus people seem to think they are a public bin so throw their rubbish in it. It says the bins have to be empty before they collect.

SMK

I was waiting a couple of months for Fingal to take my bins away. Then I rang Panda as they had promised they would organise their removal. Anyway, apparently Panda are responsible for taking away Fingal's bins. Give them a call and they should be out in a day or two.

tiredmam

Grand, sorted Panda will collect them next week sometime. Such an eyesore they were.

Neil_Sedaka

SMK wrote: »

I was waiting a couple of months for Fingal to take my bins away. Then I rang Panda as they had promised they would organise their removal. Anyway, apparently Panda are responsible for taking away Fingal's bins. Give them a call and they should be out in a day or two.

+1

blastman

Anyone hear John Daly (Fingal Co engineer) and Clare Daly on the Last Word about this last night. Yer man Daly started the interview by shooting himself in the foot (admitting it was about raising revenue) and then sounded like he was reading from a script that he didn't believe at all for the rest of the interview.

sirpsycho

Previous shows here:
http://www.radioireland.ie/lastword/lastword.html

Do you know what time that interview was on at?

blastman

Between 6.15 and 6.30, I think.

Alan Farrell

PWEI wrote: »

Because to date there is still no brown bins in my estate.

No charge unless you get all three bin types.

Rashers72 wrote: »

Can you claim tax relief of the Fingal Co Co annual charge, as well as the bin tags?

Effectively, yes.

Has anyone caught onto the fact that the private operators charge by weight aswell as a reduced standing charge etc?

Critic 69

Think i will be moving to Panda myself, and have been advising all my neighbours to do the same. But since the council say they will not clooect after 31 Aug, I will be waiting untill then to change:P

Alan Farrell

Critic 69 wrote: »

Think i will be moving to Panda myself, and have been advising all my neighbours to do the same. But since the council say they will not clooect after 31 Aug, I will be waiting untill then to change:P

I suppose that is one way of saving a few pennies!

In all fairness, having looked at the comparisons in terms of price, I am not at all surprised that only 1% of Fingal has changed over to a private operator. The stories about misinformation (such as in this thread), Council bins being removed (which they have no authority to do) and one case in Waterside, Swords where it was reported to me that virtually an entire estate was cleared of council bins and replaced with a private firm without the householders permission.

Anyway, aren't we lucky to have choice....

DubArk

Mark my words this is the first step to Council Tax…………….
Bins then roads, lighting, water, Garda etc...

They bled us all dry with stamp duty and now their gravy train is over it’s an introduction to Council Tax.

I knew when they were handing out their bloody so called free Green and Brown bins charging for them would be their next step. :rolleyes:

If they fired a third of the idiots that work in Fingal Council and ran it
properly to start with, then they would'nt waste half the monies raised by our taxes.

el_tiddlero

Does anyone else think its outrageous that they expect us to pay them for providing them with raw materials??
Seriously, in any other industry could this happen?
I'm fine with bin-tags on my black bin, with that i'm paying for my rubbish to go to landfill - fair enough.
With green bins, any material in them can be recycled, and therefore sold - so we're essentially providing them with raw materials right?
The same goes for brown bins. if you recall the leaflet sent out when you got your brown bin it stated that the material within them would be composted and sold on..
So, Fingal is making a profit from at least 2/3 of everyone's waste, no? And then they wish to profit from us supplying them with the materials that make that profit for them??

The Hill Billy

el_tiddlero wrote: »

Does anyone else think its outrageous that they expect us to pay them for providing them with raw materials??
Seriously, in any other industry could this happen?
I'm fine with bin-tags on my black bin, with that i'm paying for my rubbish to go to landfill - fair enough.
With green bins, any material in them can be recycled, and therefore sold - so we're essentially providing them with raw materials right?
The same goes for brown bins. if you recall the leaflet sent out when you got your brown bin it stated that the material within them would be composted and sold on..
So, Fingal is making a profit from at least 2/3 of everyone's waste, no? And then they wish to profit from us supplying them with the materials that make that profit for them??

If nobody took away those so-called "raw materials" - you'd be left with nothing but a big pile of rubbish. It is of no value to the average person & I for one am OK with paying for a service to remove it from my home.

el_tiddlero

Hill Billy wrote: »

If nobody took away those so-called "raw materials" - you'd be left with nothing but a big pile of rubbish. It is of no value to the average person & I for one am OK with paying for a service to remove it from my home.

I'd understand that attitude if you were paying a private company to remove it, but this is a county council, and therefore a public, non-profit organisation.
My point is that with the money they can make from selling on these de facto raw materials they should easily be able to afford to run the collection services at no extra cost to the taxpayer.
What we in effect get with the current system amounts to double taxation in my book..

Alan Farrell

DubArk wrote: »

Mark my words this is the first step to Council Tax…………….
Bins then roads, lighting, water, Garda etc...

They bled us all dry with stamp duty and now their gravy train is over it’s an introduction to Council Tax.

If they fired a third of the idiots that work in Fingal Council and ran it
properly to start with, then they would'nt waste half the monies raised by our taxes.

In fairness, the 1977 General Election set in motion the current situation with regard to "stealth taxes". Then, FF promised to abolish council taxes and when about ruining the economy shortly thereafter. Bin charges, water charges etc were always on the way. Let me give you an example. Fingal grew by 22% from 2002 to 2006. The local government fund which is supplied by the government through taxation only increased by circa 9% in that time. Now also bear in mind that Fingal is the fastest growing area in Europe. I think you get the picture.

I'm not sure I understand what your comment on the council staff relates to, they are tax payers just like the rest of us and I don't think its fair to tar them all with the same brush. In my experience, the vast majority are capable, consummate professionals.

el_tiddlero wrote: »

Does anyone else think its outrageous that they expect us to pay them for providing them with raw materials??
Seriously, in any other industry could this happen?
I'm fine with bin-tags on my black bin, with that i'm paying for my rubbish to go to landfill - fair enough.
With green bins, any material in them can be recycled, and therefore sold - so we're essentially providing them with raw materials right?
The same goes for brown bins. if you recall the leaflet sent out when you got your brown bin it stated that the material within them would be composted and sold on..
So, Fingal is making a profit from at least 2/3 of everyone's waste, no? And then they wish to profit from us supplying them with the materials that make that profit for them??

Fingal lost €7 million collected waste, recycling and providing bottle banks etc last year. Brown bin material is not sold on, its used as topping for landfill (I believe).

The only people making a profit over the last number of years for providing waste services was Oxigen, who bill the four Dublin Councils dearly for providing a service which would be far most cost effective to provide in house (by the council's that is).

The council are a not for profit organisation, but "competition" and Government policy means that they must provide services on a "Cost Neutral" basis.

el_tiddlero wrote: »

I'd understand that attitude if you were paying a private company to remove it, but this is a county council, and therefore a public, non-profit organisation.
My point is that with the money they can make from selling on these de facto raw materials they should easily be able to afford to run the collection services at no extra cost to the taxpayer.
What we in effect get with the current system amounts to double taxation in my book..

I blame the government for that, but then again, I would.

Critic 69

Alan Farrell wrote: »

I blame the government for that, but then again, I would.

While I was reading I was thinking this guy has to work for the government. You should have went on Matt Cooper the other day to debate this, or was that you?

el_tiddlero

Alan Farrell wrote: »

Fingal lost €7 million collected waste, recycling and providing bottle banks etc last year. Brown bin material is not sold on, its used as topping for landfill (I believe).

got a source on those??
I'm reluctant to include bottle banks in these discussions as there is no council provided kerbside collection for them, and i'm working on the basis that fingal are introducing the new charges to cover the cost of collecting the materials from us..

brown bin material, according to the literature i received when we got the brown bin, is supposed to be sold on.. if it's being used as landfill topping then maybe they're selling it to the landfill owners..

i have heard it said before that the only material that it makes economic sense to recycle is metal (cans, tins etc..)
recycling paper, plastic, glass etc, costs more to do than if they were to be made from scratch.. (i've not got a source on this, i believe i heard it in a documentary on waste a few years back so i'm open to correction on it..)

Your comment on Oxigen being the only ones making a profit is interesting, as it shows that there is money to be made in the waste recovery/recycling industry.. Effectively, and i'm extrapolating from that comment, it seems that the taxpayer is being charged extra because the county councils negotiated poor deals with Oxigen.. Perhaps they should renegotiate rather than lazily passing the cost onto the people who they are supposed to serve (and yes, i know they are serving themselves too, hence my surprise that they didn't do a better job in this case)

Alan Farrell

Critic 69 wrote: »

While I was reading I was thinking this guy has to work for the government. You should have went on Matt Cooper the other day to debate this, or was that you?

I certainly do not, I work for the opposition! But my comments are truthful.

I don't listen to Matt, rarely anyway. More of a newstalk man myself.

Type .ie after my name and all will be revealed!

Alan Farrell

el_tiddlero wrote: »

got a source on those??
I'm reluctant to include bottle banks in these discussions as there is no council provided kerbside collection for them, and i'm working on the basis that fingal are introducing the new charges to cover the cost of collecting the materials from us..

brown bin material, according to the literature i received when we got the brown bin, is supposed to be sold on.. if it's being used as landfill topping then maybe they're selling it to the landfill owners..

i have heard it said before that the only material that it makes economic sense to recycle is metal (cans, tins etc..)
recycling paper, plastic, glass etc, costs more to do than if they were to be made from scratch.. (i've not got a source on this, i believe i heard it in a documentary on waste a few years back so i'm open to correction on it..)

Your comment on Oxigen being the only ones making a profit is interesting, as it shows that there is money to be made in the waste recovery/recycling industry.. Effectively, and i'm extrapolating from that comment, it seems that the taxpayer is being charged extra because the county councils negotiated poor deals with Oxigen.. Perhaps they should renegotiate rather than lazily passing the cost onto the people who they are supposed to serve (and yes, i know they are serving themselves too, hence my surprise that they didn't do a better job in this case)

The source of that information is the 2008 Fingal County Council Budget which was released in December 08/January 09. Its available at fingalcoco.ie

Well, kerbside glass collection is a false economy as the glass can only be used as road fill/mix instead of being reused. As the glass is mixed and people can't separate it in one bin, it makes no sense.

The bring centres (Glass) and recycling centres in Fingal are paid for by the council and there is no comparative supplied by private operators. Lets be honest now, conspiracy theories aside, who is in the market to make money?

In terms of making economic sense, sometimes these things are not about economics but rather the environment (sound like a green party member now!) If we landfill these materials when they can be reused, it just compounds the problem we have.

The Oxigen contract was tendered, therefore the Department of Environment, Heritage and Local Government as well as the Department of Finance were involved. Its therefore a little unfair to simply blame the local authorities.

That contract is currently being renewed but as with the majority of contracts, the cheapest quote rather than the best provider is often chosen. That said, the final decision has not yet been made but I'm not holding out to be surprised!

dingdong1234567

I rang Fingal COCO and stated that i had not given them written consent to delivery me a brown bin that 1)I will not have use for as i recycle and compost, and 2) i do not have the space for it. They where very receptive. I also stated that no Councillor has ever consulted me as to whether or not i would be in favour or not to use/operate a brown bin.

I basically told the council that if they didn't remove the bin i would invoice them for the hire of it! And that i would not be paying any few towards it as i have not given anybody, be it Fingal or otherwise, written constent to charge me for a brown bin. I was told that it would be collected within 2 weeks. That was about the start/middle of May i think. The bin was not collected.

Subsequently when i was on holiday my neighbour told me that Fingal COCO had enquired about collecting the bin when i was away. That was about Mid June.

As far as i am concerned, and have a knowledge, (all be it basic!) of local authorities. A hard line has to be maintained unless you want to be shafted into paying for bins. Next it will be a tax for going to work! This is a great country i have to say!!

DubArk

Alan Farrell wrote: »

In fairness, the 1977 General Election set in motion the current situation with regard to "stealth taxes". Then, FF promised to abolish council taxes and when about ruining the economy shortly thereafter. Bin charges, water charges etc were always on the way. Let me give you an example. Fingal grew by 22% from 2002 to 2006. The local government fund which is supplied by the government through taxation only increased by circa 9% in that time. Now also bear in mind that Fingal is the fastest growing area in Europe. I think you get the picture.

I'm not sure I understand what your comment on the council staff relates to, they are tax payers just like the rest of us and I don't think its fair to tar them all with the same brush. In my experience, the vast majority are capable, consummate professionals.

I do get the picture.
You have made some very good points and I was not aware of the percentages the Government was contributing to the council. I stand corrected.:)

On the staffing issues I have dealt with Fingal Council on numerous occasions and Professional is NOT one of the words I would attribute to them.

From the moment you call them by phone, the receptionist can answer in various ways, but each time I would have to say; “Am I through to Fingal?”

I’m put through from Billy to Jack and from one department to another. There curt rude and in most cases unhelpful. Jobs for life there!!!
Many times they say they will call back but rarely do and anything they put in writing is so obscure, you’d need a translator to decipher what they were saying. IMO they are far from professional and if were working in the private sector, would be wanting.

I’m fully aware they’re tax payers, as I am too! What’s your point?