I see the bin charge rip-off escalates...

Khannie

Personally....I don't mind paying for waste collection on a per-bin basis (we don't buy a lot of non-recyclable packaging), but I don't like paying rent for a property that I own. Forcing me to pay a fixed charge when I may be out of the country (for example) feels a lot like paying ground rent to a landlord to me. Bothers me no end (polite version). :mad:

el_tiddlero

Alan Farrell wrote: »

Well, kerbside glass collection is a false economy as the glass can only be used as road fill/mix instead of being reused. As the glass is mixed and people can't separate it in one bin, it makes no sense.

The bring centres (Glass) and recycling centres in Fingal are paid for by the council and there is no comparative supplied by private operators. Lets be honest now, conspiracy theories aside, who is in the market to make money?

this is why i didn't want to bring glass collection into it.. i understand that kerbside glass collection is (relatively) pointless in terms of reusing the glass.. its also a whole other can of worms in relation to certain glass facilities that could have been used to handle this ourselves, rather than outsourcing it to another country etc etc.. lets just leave that one alone eh?

Alan Farrell wrote: »

In terms of making economic sense, sometimes these things are not about economics but rather the environment (sound like a green party member now!) If we landfill these materials when they can be reused, it just compounds the problem we have.

Economic sense is tantamount to something being environmentally friendly - for instance, while we may not be landfilling everything anymore, there are now at least 2 if not 3 times (an estimation, 1 truck each for green/brown/black collection) the amount of refuse trucks on the road, which cause their own environmental damage and obviously increase costs (what with the price of petrol etc..)... are we even breaking even in environmental terms with these systems??
obviously landfill is not the solution, but neither is this hodge-podge of recycling measures, which are designed to assuage guilt rather than to provide environmental benfit..
what we need is to embrace new technologies like this: http://www.michaelbehar.com/popsci/longo.html
and not build out of date facilities like ringsend (sorry, another worm can i know)

Alan Farrell wrote: »

The Oxigen contract was tendered, therefore the Department of Environment, Heritage and Local Government as well as the Department of Finance were involved. Its therefore a little unfair to simply blame the local authorities.

That contract is currently being renewed but as with the majority of contracts, the cheapest quote rather than the best provider is often chosen. That said, the final decision has not yet been made but I'm not holding out to be surprised!

As our local representatives, county councils HAVE to bat for us in these situations, i can understand that DOF and DOE have their own agenda, but people are elected to council to represent what we want.. People who work for the council in a professional (unelected) capacity should also try their best to represent us, they are (or should be imo) resident in our community too, so the issues that affect us most certainly affect them too.. obviously you're not always going to get everything you want, but it'd be nice to see evidence of county council reps differing in opinion with the central government line..

If the cheapest provider is chosen, rather than the best service, does that not mean that the county council is SAVING money - why then do they need to charge us more??

Alan Farrell

dingdong1234567 wrote: »

1)I will not have use for as i recycle and compost, and 2) i do not have the space for it.

You don't have to use it if you don't want to.

dingdong1234567 wrote: »

I also stated that no Councillor has ever consulted me as to whether or not i would be in favour or not to use/operate a brown bin.

Waste policy & charges are not a reserved function of Councillors. They are held by the County Manager, this has been the case since the 2001 Local Government Act or the "Fianna Fail Lets implement policy and not have to stand over it and we can blame Councillors" Act as I call it.

dingdong1234567 wrote: »

I basically told the council that if they didn't remove the bin i would invoice them for the hire of it! And that i would not be paying any few towards it as i have not given anybody, be it Fingal or otherwise, written constent to charge me for a brown bin. I was told that it would be collected within 2 weeks. That was about the start/middle of May i think. The bin was not collected.

The Environmental charge is not a payment for brown or green services, just refuse. I'm not saying I like it, I plainly don't but the charges were introduced because the council was not able to provide the service on a cost neutral basis. Again, to me that's a fault of central government underfunding.

dingdong1234567 wrote: »

As far as i am concerned, and have a knowledge, (all be it basic!) of local authorities. A hard line has to be maintained unless you want to be shafted into paying for bins. Next it will be a tax for going to work! This is a great country i have to say!!

We actually do pay to get to work, Road Tax. Parking charges, CIE parking charges (on the way shortly) Tax on fuels, VRT etc. I'm guessing that was not your point though.

Sure, in some cases you may need to dig the heels in to get a result from local government but we already pay for refuse, that's what the tag is for. Paying for what you throw away is a perfectly acceptable policy as far as I am concerned. That's why its so disappointing to have to pay €60 this year and and €110 every year after instead of just the €8 tag each time you put it out. Frankly I thought Fingal were quite progressive in that way until last Christmas.

We'll all just have to vote against the government at the next election won't we?

Alan Farrell

el_tiddlero wrote: »

glass collection. lets just leave that one alone eh?

Sure.

el_tiddlero wrote: »

Economic sense is tantamount to something being environmentally friendly - for instance, while we may not be landfilling everything anymore, there are now at least 2 if not 3 times (an estimation, 1 truck each for green/brown/black collection) the amount of refuse trucks on the road, which cause their own environmental damage and obviously increase costs (what with the price of petrol etc..)... are we even breaking even in environmental terms with these systems??
obviously landfill is not the solution, but neither is this hodge-podge of recycling measures, which are designed to assuage guilt rather than to provide environmental benfit..
what we need is to embrace new technologies like this: http://www.michaelbehar.com/popsci/longo.html
and not build out of date facilities like ringsend (sorry, another worm can i know)

Waste to Energy; sure I like the concept but personally I can't control Government Policy. Its just another form of incineration though, albeit a very technically advanced method.

el_tiddlero wrote: »

As our local representatives, county councils HAVE to bat for us in these situations, i can understand that DOF and DOE have their own agenda, but people are elected to council to represent what we want.. People who work for the council in a professional (unelected) capacity should also try their best to represent us, they are (or should be imo) resident in our community too, so the issues that affect us most certainly affect them too.. obviously you're not always going to get everything you want, but it'd be nice to see evidence of county council reps differing in opinion with the central government line..

If the cheapest provider is chosen, rather than the best service, does that not mean that the county council is SAVING money - why then do they need to charge us more??

(Actually I was referring to the best environmentally sound provider)

Ok, I agree with everything you have said there but local reps don't have a say on tendering, we've had tribunals about that you know.

You can't expect a low grade civil servant to contradict his boss or his bosses boss. They'd get moved a Siberian local authority! That would be like a telesales person telling a customer that the Sales Director's product is actually bad! They'd be unemployed the next day.

I know where you are coming from but the key component of local authority service is money or more precisely the lack of it. We all wish it were not the case.

If central government gave Fingal an extra €7m (or 4% of the total budget given to them in 2008) we won't have to pay a standing charge. (figures from recollection)

dingdong1234567

Alan Farrell wrote: »

I'm guessing that was not your point though.
QUOTE]...........bang on there!

Some good points, but i would prefer to pay my €8 for every time i get the bin lifted rather than be TOLD i have to pay €110 every year for a bin that i don't need or want.

Anyways, i'm just imputing my experience of it all. I'm not here to tell everybody 'this is what i've done i'm great'....crap! I'm just saying that people shouldn't take this and say nothing.

jeremyquinn

Fingal will use the greening scam to pick your pocket any chance they get.

A pack of scum.

Moonbeam

Some good points, but i would prefer to pay my €8 for every time i get the bin lifted rather than be TOLD i have to pay €110 every year for a bin that i don't need or want.

Instead we get to pay both

greatgoal

Moonbeam wrote: »

Instead we get to pay both

no we dont,theres alternative service providers now,or do we stick with the devil we know?

MercMad

The thing I find irksome is the statement a few years back that "You only pay for what you use", then "green bins will be provide free", then "brown bins will be provided free".

Since day 1 the cost of the tags have risen, and whilst they provide the bins free they wont empty them now until we pay €110/annum.

I'm sorry, but what started out, for me, as a cost issue, has now become one of principal, I dont like being duped !

So for that reason alone FCC can take a jump !

I'm still curious though, as to whether or not Panda have the right to take the Fingal bins, and what they do with them ? Anyobody know ?

What if FCC arrive after a month, spotting that I havent paid up, and ask for them back ?

greatgoal

you should hang on to them because if panda do what they did in drogheda when their price freeze ends,youll be going back to the council.

BroomBurner

We got our brown bin last week, first collection this friday, no mention whatsoever yet of having to pay for it... I'm just anticipating their letter, whenever the lazy morons in FCC decide to get around to it. Although they're looking for money, you would think they would have sent us a letter explaining this new service and the cost (or even include a note as to the cost within the info envelope with the bins), but no! God, no!

greatgoal

but sure the longer it takes them to send it out the less youre going to have to pay.

markyedison

The thing I find irksome is the statement a few years back that "You only pay for what you use", then "green bins will be provide free", then "brown bins will be provided free".

Since day 1 the cost of the tags have risen, and whilst they provide the bins free they wont empty them now until we pay €110/annum.

I'm sorry, but what started out, for me, as a cost issue, has now become one of principal, I dont like being duped !

Damn straight, I never believed for a second that the introduction of the bin tax years back was environmentally motivated. Sadly, my suspicions have been confirmed year on year and this flat charge feels like a kick in the teeth with a poll tax bill on the end of the boot.

Also, i've noticed that since (foolishly) paying the new tax, our bin service has deteriorated, with bin trucks 'breaking down' every other week.

They have charged us more than ever and cut back on the service.

The Bastards

dan_d

We bought a second-hand house , and have "inherited" 3 bins (obviously!).I want to get rid of the brown bin.I don't use it, it smells and attracts legions of flies, and we've got a composter aswell anyway(which was also in the garden when we bought the house).How do I go about doing this?I've heard the CC are a bit difficult about this kind of thing, though I can't see why they should be since I've paid for it for the rest of the year and to be honest, it's my choice.Plus if I don't use it, I don't want to pay for it.

Buck Mulligan

Question for Cllr Farrell : How many bins could be collected if councillors did not attend conferences and junkets in Europe, the US & Australia ? (see council minutes). The Fingal area is a shambles. Lack of schools, traffic jams, poor public transport, no proper planning etc - all presided over by the huge and costly staff in Swords & Blanchardstown, all in shiny new offices. Bin charges are only the beginning -water is next. Why do we need thousands of staff in multiple local authorities to preside over a small country with a small population ? Nothing will change in the next election. Gombeen men in power, Fine Gael whinging with not an original idea between the lot of them !