The road to South Africa - 2010 World Cup Campaign

ShoulderChip

Ireland are in qualifying group 8 for the world cup which pits us against the following teams;

Group 8
Italy
Bulgaria
Ireland Republic
Cyprus
Georgia
Montenegro

We are going in as third seeds behind Italy and Bulgaria.

Our fixture map is as follows;
September
Georgia Away
Montenegro Away

October
Cyprus Home

February
Georgia Home

March
Bulgaria Home

April
Italy Away

June
Bulgaria Away

September
Cyprus Away

October
Italy Home
montenegro Home

which the optimist among us would consider us favourited for our first 5 matches so a good start could do a lot for us in the competition

Helix

minimum acceptable points tally of 21 for me

any less and its another mess

pvt.joker

ShoulderChip wrote: »

which the optimist lunatics among us would consider us favourited for our first 5 matches so a good start could do a lot for us in the competition

fixed

Xavi6

Finish 4th behin Italy, Bulgaria and Montonegro. Ahead of Cyprus on goal difference though.

_blank_

Ireland won't qualify.

Players aren't good enough.

9 points from the first 5 games, ten maximum.

Two defeats to a re-surgent Italy under Lippi, and probable defeats away to both Bulgaria and Montenegro.

And I'm sure Cyprus are absolutely bricking it at the prospect of a visit from Ireland.

pvt.joker

There's 22 points there for the taking in my eyes, discounting getting anything from the italians.
A draw away to bulgaria and 3 points at home and we should be ok

Steve_o

Helix wrote: »

minimum acceptable points tally of 21 for me

any less and its another mess

+1

Ireland have the talent to finish 2nd once they dont f*ck it up again!!!

_blank_

Steve_o wrote: »

Ireland have the talent to finish 2nd

lol

SantryRed

Why do so many people see Cyprus as a bogey team for us?
Just because we had a fool in charge when we played them the last two times is why we didn't beat them. Can see us coming 2nd or 3rd. Italians to steamroll there way through the group.

Helix

pvt.joker wrote: »

There's 22 points there for the taking in my eyes, discounting getting anything from the italians.
A draw away to bulgaria and 3 points at home and we should be ok

id be confident enough that just beating them at home and getting 21 points would see us through

ShoulderChip

Bulgaria have berbatov and the petrov brothers, who else?

they have one player with energie cottibus in germany,
none in england, france, italy or spain.

We should consider ourselves better than them.

Xavi6

ShoulderChip wrote: »

Bulgaria have berbatov and the petrov brothers, who else?

they have one player with energie cottibus in germany,
none in england, france, italy or spain.

We should consider ourselves better than them.

Well if they don't play on Sky Sports then they must be shit, just like Russia :rolleyes:

ShoulderChip

Xavi6 wrote: »

Well if they don't play on Sky Sports then they must be shit, just like Russia :rolleyes:

very different situation to russia, also I didn't say that if they don't play on sky Sports then they must be shit
so the :rolleyes: was uncalled for.

Xavi6

ShoulderChip wrote: »

very different situation to russia, also I didn't say that if they don't play on sky Sports then they must be shit
so the :rolleyes: was uncalled for.

You mentioned four leagues as if they are the be all and end all of football. Does that mean Brazil are worse than Ireland if they bring over a home based squad for a game?

And how is it different to Russia? A team made up of relative 'unknowns' who can play some excellent football.

ShoulderChip

Xavi6 wrote: »

You mentioned four leagues as if they are the be all and end all of football. Does that mean Brazil are worse than Ireland if they bring over a home based squad for a game?

We shouldn't be scared of players who are playing in the belgian league.
The belgian league is a disgrace,
any bulgarian worth his sod goes and plays in a foreign league it has been that way for a long time.

xavi6 wrote:

And how is it different to Russia? A team made up of relative 'unknowns' who can play some excellent football.

I
n Russia in recent years there has been a tremendous amount of money invested in the league some by Abramovic and other oligarchs,
to the extent that a russian player now can earn huge wages while staying in russia
and also achieve success in Europe
as evident by Cska Moscow and Zenith St. Petersburgs success in the Uefa Cup

Xavi6

ShoulderChip wrote: »

We shouldn't be scared of players who are playing in the belgian league.
The belgian league is a disgrace,
any bulgarian worth his sod goes and plays in a foreign league it has been that way for a long time.

Just like no one should be afraid of someone who plays in the Scottish league or the Championship. Cyprus and Georgia are not shitting themselves about playing us and the rest probably see it is as 3 points at home.

ShoulderChip wrote: »

I
n Russia in recent years there has been a tremendous amount of money invested in the league some by Abramovic and other oligarchs,
to the extent that a russian player now can earn huge wages while staying in russia
and also achieve success in Europe
as evident by Cska Moscow and Zenith St. Petersburgs success in the Uefa Cup

But that doesn't have anything to do with the talent in the Bulgarian squad. My point is that the Russians are as unknown as the Bulgarians. The fact is that teams from the former USSR and eastern Europe are generally well coached and well organised. Bulgaria won't be any different, and neither will Montenegro.

estebancambias

I honestly cannot see Ireland losing away in the group(except for Italy but even then a 0-0 draw doesn't seem impossible. They are not as potent as peope think. They only beat the Faroe Islands(two late Pirlo goals I think) and conceded 3 to Belarus at home.

However I can see some quite frustrating home games.

ShoulderChip

Xavi6 wrote: »

But that doesn't have anything to do with the talent in the Bulgarian squad.

of course it does, talented bulgrian players play abroad.

My point is that the Russians are as unknown as the Bulgarians. T

I think a lot more people have seen Cska Moscow and Zenith St.Petersbourg play in recent years than players from the Bulgarian league.

Kildarered

Scotland got hammered in georgia a few months ago when they were playing well. Avram Grant may be manager of them by the time we play them aswell. Montenegro is also a very difficult match. We need min 4 points from 1st 2 games. Realistically see us getting 1 at most.

Xavi6

ShoulderChip wrote: »

of course it does, talented bulgrian players play abroad.

You're right there boss. So right in fact that in the Bulgarian squad of March this year, only 5 players out of 17 were home based so they must have some talent in there for 70% to have been picked up by foreign clubs.

ShoulderChip

Xavi6 wrote: »

You're right there boss. So right in fact that in the Bulgarian squad of March this year, only 5 players out of 17 were home based so they must have some talent in there for 70% to have been picked up by foreign clubs.

oh your changing tact,
and yes that is true,
right back to my first point i questioned the quality of the leagues that they are playing in however.

Xavi6

ShoulderChip wrote: »

oh your changing tact,
and yes that is true,
right back to my first point i questioned the quality of the leagues that they are playing in however.

I'm not changing tact. I've said I think Bulgaria are a good side and a solid unit. It makes no difference what league they play in as international football does not stick to the club status quo.

But for the record they've a few players in England, even more in Germany, one in Turkey, two in Russia, one in Romania, one in the Ukraine, etc etc.

SantryRed

They'll be like a lot of Eastern Europeans, very organised.

And then with having Berbatov up front along with Martin Petrov down the wing, we've enough to be scared about regardless of where the rest come from.

ShoulderChip

Xavi6 wrote: »

I'm not changing tact. I've said I think Bulgaria are a good side and a solid unit. It makes no difference what league they play in as international football does not stick to the club status quo.

But for the record they've a few players in England, even more in Germany, one in Turkey, two in Russia, one in Romania, one in the Ukraine, etc etc.

well if you ask me it seems that from your first post you wished to pick a fight with me, and I no longer wish to argue about trivialities.

I still believe that we should consider ourselves better than them,

maybe start a new thread if you want to continue this inane debate.

Mikeyt086

Xavi, Bulgaria are not like Russia.

Russia:
Rich league. VERY rich league.
Teams consistently competing in the groups of Champions League.
Guus Hiddink.
Qualfy for tournaments recently.

Bulgaria:
Big players leave the country.
The league is crap.
Best teams cant get through the UEFA prelims.
Who is their manager?
Kishishev used to be captain...

Mr.Nice Guy

I see the cynics are writing us off already. I predict we can earn 13 points from 15 out of our first five games.

Georgia Away - First competitive match for Trap. I see a win.

Montenegro Away - Likely to be a tricky tie. I see a draw.

Cyprus Home - I predict 3 points here.

Georgia Home - Same as above.

Bulgaria Home - The hardest game of the group up to this stage but with us being home I could see us getting all 3 points.

That would leave us with 13 points going into the last 5 games. So then I reckon...

Italy Away - A gutsy effort but a defeat.

Bulgaria Away - A gutsy effort and a draw.

Cyprus Away - A gutsy effort and a win!

Italy Home - A fantastic effort and a draw.

Montenegro Home - A nervy effort but a narrow win.

So then we end up with 21 points and a play-off place. 21 points is likely to be enough to avoid us being the worst second-placed team of the groups.

We'll end up in a play-off against Sweden or Poland and we'll beat them to go through. Happy days.

shane86

estebancambias wrote: »

I honestly cannot see Ireland losing away in the group(except for Italy but even then a 0-0 draw doesn't seem impossible. They are not as potent as peope think. They only beat the Faroe Islands(two late Pirlo goals I think) and conceded 3 to Belarus at home.

However I can see some quite frustrating home games.

Belarus was a friendly?

I agree though, people are more afraid of who Italy are then what they currently are. Are there really a group of vastly superior young Italian players who were left at home this summer but are going to fire up this winter? Because if not bring on the has beens. Arguably the worst team of the tournament, got out of their group thanks to a saved penalty and a very lucky deflected strike against a French squad that even Ireland could have taken at least 2-0. Im more worried about Georgia away than Italy away. Even Georgia at home might prove the bogey team.

Mikeyt086

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Bulgaria:
Big players leave the country.
The league is crap.
Best teams cant get through the UEFA prelims.
Who is their manager?
Kishishev used to be captain...

Sounds eeriely familiar...

Helix

kishishev was never our captain

Tom65

How good are Montenegro? The only reason (IIRC) they were in the bottom seeds was because they're a new country. I think it could be a tough away tie. Then again, all away ties for Ireland are tough.

gixerfixer

We will finish 4th behind Italy 1st Bulgaria 2nd and georgia 3rd.

eirebhoy

Richard Dunne's availability will easily be the most important factor imo. Without him we're screwed, with him we've at least as good a team as Bulgaria.

Jivin Turkey

Why are people rating Montenegro so highly? They've a couple of Italian based forwards and young attacking midfielders with some potential but that's about it. Montenegro are hardly going to be that well prepared as such an infant association. They are probably not the worst of the bottom seeds but I'd hardly expect them to challenge for qualification.

Bulgaria are a similar scenario with a couple of decent attackers but no solid foundation behind. Certainly no great shakes. Their qualification record is hardly amazing, not even much better than ours (since 1990). They've taken an old coach back in an act of desperation and all he did was take them to a Euro champs to see them go out losing every game.

Italy again have taken an old coach back, and while Lippi won the world cup I just don't think it's ever a good idea to try and reel back the years. With Lippi back at the helm I would imagine a lot of the old guard will be retained who otherwise may have retired. Great, the less younger hungrier Italians there the better.

I'm not saying we are certain to qualify, sure even finishing second could see us go straight out. But the huge negativity is unbelievable. Our group is certainly easier than last time, and now we have a top European coach. And while he not have us playing total football, he'll have us grinding results out which we haven't done in years.

I can see us taking points of Italy, winning more away games than usual (mostly 1-0) and reaching the play-offs, after that it all depends on who we draw.

estebancambias

eirebhoy wrote: »

Richard Dunne's availability will easily be the most important factor imo. Without him we're screwed, with him we've at least as good a team as Bulgaria.

Lost hope in McShane?:(

In my FM game he joined Juventus in 2012, fufilling your prediction of reaching his peak.

Xavi6

ShoulderChip wrote: »

well if you ask me it seems that from your first post you wished to pick a fight with me, and I no longer wish to argue about trivialities.

I still believe that we should consider ourselves better than them,

maybe start a new thread if you want to continue this inane debate.

How is it an 'inane debate'? I disagree with your assessment of the Bulgarians as you seem to discredit them based on the league in which they play. That to me is a naive attitude and one that could come back and bite you, and others, in the arse if we get hammered in Sofia. Ireland simply should not be put on a pedistal above such countries. Sorry if you feel like I was having a go at you, I was merely hoping to engage in a healthy debate about the difference between Ireland and Bulgaria, of which to me there is very little.

leninbenjamin

I really don't know. if we do have a chance it will take an awful lot of over achievement from some average players, but then again maybe McShane, McGeady and co. can start to fill on their promise next season. I'd bet on the usual scenario though; early over achievement in the big away games giving hope to the masses only for the team to stumble on the low hurdles... there's just something wrong with the mentality that has been there for the past 6 years basically that i can't see a new manager overcoming in a couple of months. I hope i'm wrong, but personally I feel without an injection of new blood we'll fail to achieve anything.

eirebhoy

estebancambias wrote: »

Lost hope in McShane?:(

Since he fell in Mexico? I'd seriously worry if we had to play McShane-O'Shea/O'Brien. McShane can be superb if he has Dunne beside him for the campaign.

zAbbo

Ahh cmon now, no more of this McShane is class with X beside him. How's he going to do on a 1on1 then?

It doesn't really matter how good the players are individually, we need to start playing like a team, and that begins with the defense - which has been a shambles for a good few years now.

Unfortunately we've been lacking a central midfielder who can at least pass the ball and dictate the tempo for a long time as well.

I predict we'll be involved in another embarrassing scrap with countires I can't spell.

eirebhoy

zAbbo wrote: »

Ahh cmon now, no more of this McShane is class with X beside him. How's he going to do on a 1on1 then?

Every defense has to hold a line. Usually one player will lead that line and the other 3 defenders will follow it. Dunne is the only Irish centre half who has proven that he can do this at the highest level. A few years ago he wouldn't have had a hope but he's learnt the game. The same way McShane will I'm sure. Some players like Bobo Balde and Phil Babb go through their whole careers without picking up much tactical knowledge. They can be superb beside a top organiser and brutal without.

Most centre halves need some kind of apprentice before they can play at the highest level without an experienced partner. Just like most young midfield players won't be given that all important deep lying role until they've gained a few years experience.

estebancambias

zAbbo wrote: »

Ahh cmon now, no more of this McShane is class with X beside him. How's he going to do on a 1on1 then?

It doesn't really matter how good the players are individually, we need to start playing like a team, and that begins with the defense - which has been a shambles for a good few years now.

Unfortunately we've been lacking a central midfielder who can at least pass the ball and dictate the tempo for a long time as well.

I predict we'll be involved in another embarrassing scrap with countires I can't spell.

Well we have Owen Garvan, but at this time he's only a promising Championship player. He needs to make a move to the EPL within a year.

Het-Field

I think we have a half decent team. However, we are in a tough group, and I believe it is impossible to predict how the games could pan out. Its a bollocks that we must play so many eastern european teams. I can see the vast majority of the games being very boring, with the Italian games being faily turgid affairs.

We are not in the same league as the Spanish, Germans, Dutch, Russians, or Turks. I would wager that we are also behind many other teams who were in Austria and Switzerland while Robbie Keane was in Mauritius and the rest were in Marbella,Greece and Thailand. However, I think Trappatoni has placed a shape on the team, and his initial games have shown encouraging signs.

One of the crucial aspects of the next 3 months is a chance to get the likes of Stephan Ireland, Andy O Brien, and Steve Finnan back into the fold. Especially the first and last. O Brien is more to give us another option to Paul McShane.

If they get them back, the team I would like to see on the pitch (injury pending)


Team 1

---

Given

---

Finnan

---

Dunne

---

OShea

---

Kilbane

Ireland

---

S.Reid

---

A.Reid

---

Duff

---

Keane

---

Doyle

---

Team 2

---

Keily

---

J.OBrien

---

Bruce

---

A.OBrien

---

Kelly

McGeady

---

Miller

---

Carsley

---

Hunt

---

Long

---

Murphy

---

The rest should be selected from
Paddy Kenny, Paul McShane, Darren Gibson, Clinton Morrison, Jonathn Douglas, Stephan McPhail, Kevin Foley, Andy Keogh, Wes Houlihan, Liam Larwence and Glen Whelan.

However, I would hope that, the admittedly injury prone, first 11 of my chocie will be the starters

SantryRed

Don't know how you could leave McGeady out of the first team.

leninbenjamin

SantryRed wrote: »

Don't know how you could leave McGeady out of the first team.

because whenever he's wearing an Ireland shirt he looks like a headless chicken. I reckon he needs more experience at club level before we can rely on him. the high tactical element of international soccer seems to be a bit beyond him yet. then again it seems to be a bit beyond a lot of our players...

JerryHandbag

Relax lads, we qualify for things every 8 years......1994-2002-2010
As long as Trappatoni doesn't keel over, and the FAI re-appoint Stan, then we've got some hope

estebancambias

leninbenjamin wrote: »

because whenever he's wearing an Ireland shirt he looks like a headless chicken. I reckon he needs more experience at club level before we can rely on him. the high tactical element of international soccer seems to be a bit beyond him yet. then again it seems to be a bit beyond a lot of our players...

Now this is a fair point.

I don't buy that we don't have the players, of course we don't have the players to win the world cup, but we are every bit as capable player for player as teams like Romania.

However a fair few of our players don't have the mentality to adapt to the different kettle of fish that is International Football.

smackbunnybaby

i'm looking forward to the quality RTE coverage.

Bill: So what do we know about the Bulgarians/Montenegroans(sp?)/Georgians?

Giles: To be honest we know very little about them

Dunphy: The Bulgarians are a class act Bill

Bill: But surely the Bulgarians players have a poor domestic league Eamon?

Dunphy: Rubbish Bill

etc etc.

i reckon it is an impossible group to call. i think there will be very few goals in any game and i think ireland will pick up valuable points against Italy and Bulgaria but will then throw away the advantage against the likes of Georgia....who we know nothing about

delija_sever029

I feel i am eligible to comment this group while all your oponents are from east or close to Serbia so i know them well i supose.First of all i have to say Ireland and Serbia are so similar.If i go on transfermarkt and see that serbian team is 8th most expensive team in Europe i ask my self whats wrong with us than.You all know how good players we have and they all playing in great european clubs,but when they get together,instead of being in european top as i supose everyone expect when they see value of our players and those names,they blew up and they play like bunch of school boys.I must say Ireland is same.You have some really good names but its same as with our team,no team spirit.if someone could change that dammit both of these teams would be european top class.Personally i think Ireland have very good team and its annoying i know they play so bad so i understand you negative reactions coz its same in Serbia,we watch our players playing in top european clubs and when they play in national team they embarassing us and losing against Azerbeijan,Kazakhstan and Armenia....So i know the feeling.I hope Trap is the guy who can maybe change that in your team,its just about team spirit.And about your group.ireland is definitly 2nd best team in that group.
Italy,we all know them,they seems to be in small crisis judging by Euro but with them man never knows,i think Ireland cant lose it at home and with a bit luck they can get draw in Italy
Bulgaria,well they were good till few years ago and now they are some average team who is closer to suck than to be good team,their new players arent good as generation before them,this could be even 6 points for Ireland or least 4
Georgia,teams like this are worst for us,yes we can play 2 times draw with Portugal and to lose from some ex soviet team who plays on field that is modified lawn,i supose all the thing about it is motivation,i am scared more for games like these than games against France,Italy or something,its all about motivation,and about quality of Georgia...no comment,6 points for ireland,everything else would be bad
Cyprus,i dont know this team very well,they are average team but they can make problems to every team and i noticed that so far,it seems man with them never knows,maybe they play some weird style or something
Montenegro,our ex brothers,got independent and now have problems to make national team coz they dont have players,lately they are getting serbian,croatian and albanian players to play for them,so with them man can never go,maybe they will bring some stars till qualifications begin so they can be number 1 in the group:D
So far,all the players they have i know coz they played in Serbia,almost 100% of them,some of them still playing here.There are some good names and quality players,but not so huge quality they would be some good team who can be candidate to go on WC.Thats fastest i could remember so far,maybe i will add something i forgot but my conclusion is that if Ireland plays as they can and know they can be least 2nd in this group without problems,i am not sure Serbia can do same coz our group is very tough but Ireland has a really good chance for it

estebancambias

wow you dug this one up.;)

Great post, and I agree. Its good to see your views because you know a lot of these eastern european nations due to their close proximity with Serbia.

I think we were all fearing Montengro but you say they are a poor team, so that is good.

Roll on South Africa.:D

delija_sever029

No no,i am not saying Montenegro is bad team,i know their players as good as all our players coz their players playing or played in our league and some of them are serbians acctually.Their team have a lot of talented players,some class players also,they are far to be team that suck but they are far to be team to be scared of,i wasnt watching them a lot but i heard some results and i wasnt impressed so much,they will be average team for sure and they will play bad away games i supose,i think Ireland can get 4 points without problem

estebancambias

Oh right, yeah well four points would be good. We can't afford to lose in Montengro if we have any hopes of going through.

delija_sever029

Well nothing is impossible,today anyone know playing football good,even those sucking teams from east europe can win and they showed it,i still cant imagine Montenegro win against Ireland,maybe i am understimating them but maybe if i see some matches of them soon i would have more reliable opinion about them,so far,talented and team with solid quality but i dont see them as some huge threat