New car sales a disaster!!!!!!!!!!!

Jonny303

cjt156 wrote: »

True.

I hope the decent, customer-focussed ones who actually know and care about the cars they sell can manage to see it through the rough times.

The rest of those spotty-faced, cheap-suited, widget-selling, unit-shifting, commision-chasing twonks can feck off down the dole office.

Totally agree with you. I think a lot of people have a chip in there shoulder regarding dealers, and just paint everyone with the same brush.

Stevie Dakota

Jonny303 wrote: »

Totally agree with you. I think a lot of people have a chip in there shoulder regarding dealers, and just paint everyone with the same brush.

+1

Most dealers I have dealt with have been good, and at worse, average, which is not bad considering how many people they have to charm versus how many actually buy. Then there are all the people who check out cars here and then buy them abroad, understandable if you want to get the best price, but must be a pain to have to deal with.

tw0nk

cjt156 wrote: »

The rest of those spotty-faced, cheap-suited, widget-selling, unit-shifting, commision-chasing twonks can feck off down the dole office.

What did I do!?

E92

I don't think they were a "disaster" somehow.

2,836 registrations were made yesterday.

See here for more.

kaizersoze

junkyard wrote: »

There's no big rush on for new cars with the new VRT system in place, any of the sales men I know in the different main dealers around the place have said it's an absolute disaster all round, nobody bought before it and nobody's buying now. If this keeps up most of us are out of a job in a few months.

Were these salesmen/dealers in general, under the impression that when they opened their doors at 9 am on the 1st of July there would be a queue of people waiting to buy cars? It really sounds like they did.

sk8board

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

Are Car sales as bad as everyone seems to be making out?
I done a qick check on cartell.ie and for 07 there was in and around 74500 new cars registered in Dublin. so far this year there are about 53000 cars registered. There is still half the year to go so cars sales will have a bit of time to catch up with last years.

generally, about 80-85% of car sales are in H1 of the year (and its gets higher every year). So catching up from 53 - 75 will require a very brisk July (and July alone, it'll return to normal from Aug-Dec). Unlikely to happen IMO.

Stevie Dakota

"SIMI are advising people to buy now"

The SIMI? No sh1t?

knifey_spoonie

Hanley wrote: »

Dealers are so quick to complain about the bad times in the last 6 or so months... Where's all the money that they basically had free reign to print for the last 8 years gone...?

I think alot of people got caught out and wasted money on fancy showrooms and things that they didn't really need.

The government aren't to blame for THAT.

You are the type of person who just starts me fuming, yes dealers have had a great 10 years, no dealers are complaining, they only have two choices either close up or shut up. SIMI isint out shouting from the rooftops ( not that they have the ability).

As for your statement that they could "print money" is a load of bull. Yes we have had made good in the last 10 years, but that was'nt without alot of spending, time and effort( I personally clock in about 60 hours a week). In recent years competeion is so strong (which i have no problem with) has resulted in a huge drop of in profits per unit in come cases a new car is sold for €16k with a gross profit of €150, and this if not a one off it is ongoing, so why dont ye all go off and rip your local tv shop who is making the same out of selling you a new Tv

I know that in general the profits for most garages are sitting around 1-1.5% not this figure of 10% shouted around on forums

You are very quick to give out about your dealers, maybe you have some usless dealers, but dont tar us all with one brush, in my case we have spent huge money not on a fancy building, but on improving the customers experience we have now achived a 94 % customer satisfaction, but that doesnt come cheap, and profits have reduced greatly but we are lucky we have about a 80% customer retention rate

tw0nk

Man I really dont like SIMI, worse than politicians

Jonny303

knife_fighter wrote: »

You are the type of person who just starts me fuming, yes dealers have had a great 10 years, no dealers are complaining, they only have two choices either close up or shut up. SIMI isint out shouting from the rooftops ( not that they have the ability).

As for your statement that they could "print money" is a load of bull. Yes we have had made good in the last 10 years, but that was'nt without alot of spending, time and effort( I personally clock in about 60 hours a week). In recent years competeion is so strong (which i have no problem with) has resulted in a huge drop of in profits per unit in come cases a new car is sold for €16k with a gross profit of €150, and this if not a one off it is ongoing, so why dont ye all go off and rip your local tv shop who is making the same out of selling you a new Tv

I know that in general the profits for most garages are sitting around 1-1.5% not this figure of 10% shouted around on forums

You are very quick to give out about your dealers, maybe you have some usless dealers, but dont tar us all with one brush, in my case we have spent huge money not on a fancy building, but on improving the customers experience we have now achived a 94 % customer satisfaction, but that doesnt come cheap, and profits have reduced greatly but we are lucky we have about a 80% customer retention rate

summed it up in 1! and the spending huge money on showrooms thing...i dont think people realise aswel in most cases, especailly with bigger franchises its either put up or shut up!

RedorDead

knife_fighter wrote: »

You are the type of person who just starts me fuming, yes dealers have had a great 10 years, no dealers are complaining, they only have two choices either close up or shut up. SIMI isint out shouting from the rooftops ( not that they have the ability).

As for your statement that they could "print money" is a load of bull. Yes we have had made good in the last 10 years, but that was'nt without alot of spending, time and effort( I personally clock in about 60 hours a week). In recent years competeion is so strong (which i have no problem with) has resulted in a huge drop of in profits per unit in come cases a new car is sold for €16k with a gross profit of €150, and this if not a one off it is ongoing, so why dont ye all go off and rip your local tv shop who is making the same out of selling you a new Tv

I know that in general the profits for most garages are sitting around 1-1.5% not this figure of 10% shouted around on forums

You are very quick to give out about your dealers, maybe you have some usless dealers, but dont tar us all with one brush, in my case we have spent huge money not on a fancy building, but on improving the customers experience we have now achived a 94 % customer satisfaction, but that doesnt come cheap, and profits have reduced greatly but we are lucky we have about a 80% customer retention rate

+ 1

And for a lot of these dealers if they didnt invest the millions of euro in their new building they get cancelled by the manufacturer. Youre damned if you do and damned if you dont!

Hanley

RedorDead wrote: »

+ 1

And for a lot of these dealers if they didnt invest the millions of euro in their new building they get cancelled by the manufacturer. Youre damned if you do and damned if you dont!

Wait... then why is everyone whinging about it being the governments fault...??

Seriously, my points come from talking to a few dealers involved in the trade. The majority of them seem to have high hundreds of thousands/millions tied up in stock that's not selling.

I honestly can't believe that everyone expected the good times to go on forever... I know alot of people who dropped out of school to go into the building trade cos there was a boom on, i said then it couldn't last, we'd reach a saturation point and they'd be up sh!t creek without a paddle. The same thing seems to be happening to the motor trade now...

cashmni1

Anan1 wrote: »

Open your eyes, there has never been a better time to buy a car! And don't most new diesels have DPFs?

How many cars have you bought reciently? Personally, I have lost €6000 in a year due to the deprecation of my car. (nothing I can do about that)
Great time to buy, yes, but many people are feeling the pinch and are not willing to spend money on changing the car. Hence millions wiped off the second hand market.
Bit of a catch 22 really.

is_that_so

One of the dealers in that Drivetime link I posted suggested that 2nd hand cars will readjust according to the new price regime fairly quickly.

Anan1

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

+1

Most dealers I have dealt with have been good, and at worse, average, which is not bad considering how many people they have to charm versus how many actually buy. Then there are all the people who check out cars here and then buy them abroad, understandable if you want to get the best price, but must be a pain to have to deal with.

I'm afraid I can't agree with this. When I was a car salesman, I knew all the features, specifications, available options and prices of all the new cars I sold. Most of the car salespeople i've encountered since haven't even mastered this basic information.

Anan1

cashmni1 wrote: »

How many cars have you bought reciently? Personally, I have lost €6000 in a year due to the deprecation of my car. (nothing I can do about that)

Three in the past year.

cashmni1 wrote: »

Great time to buy, yes, but many people are feeling the pinch and are not willing to spend money on changing the car. Hence millions wiped off the second hand market.
Bit of a catch 22 really.

Isn't this a good thing for drivers? (Excluding the few who intend on selling their cars and retiring from driving)

Hanley

Anan1 wrote: »

I'm afraid I can't agree with this. When I was a car salesman, I knew all the features, specifications, available options and prices of all the new cars I sold. Most of the car salespeople i've encountered since haven't even mastered this basic information.

I'm gonna be a cheeky bugger again and ask is this because the cars had pretty much been selling themselves?

Not trying to be insulting to the genuinely good guys out there, but the impression the above statement gives me is that guys got into it because there was quick money to be made for fast talker with no other skills really required.

knifey_spoonie

The problems some dealers are having is linked to the gov. partly, but its more so caused by the ignorence of dealers woth regards to the new vrt rules.

What they should have done is choped prices by the relevant amount in feb-march not right now, but the problem with doing this was that therefor the customers cost to change would be huge, and nobody would buy, so there up fcuked if they do or dont.

What needs to be don is take the hard-nosed view that this year is only to brake even and thats it, stock must be writen down.

This would have to be done with a change of vrt, but the fact its coming in in the middle of the year turns it into a money losing shambles

Anan1

Hanley wrote: »

I'm gonna be a cheeky bugger again and ask is this because the cars had pretty much been selling themselves?

Not trying to be insulting to the genuinely good guys out there, but the impression the above statement gives me is that guys got into it because there was quick money to be made for fast talker with no other skills really required.

Definitely. Like any other group, dealerships have been doing as little work as they can get away with. The bottom line is they do it because people still accept it.

sk8board

is_that_so wrote: »

One of the dealers in that Drivetime link I posted suggested that 2nd hand cars will readjust according to the new price regime fairly quickly.

did a quick check on carzone earier for some of the poster-bot cars of the July prices (bmw's, 2.0L diesels etc), and not one single car was priced down to their readjusted retail price. All were still much more expensive, with the '07 models still being more expensive than the new July '08 prices.

it doesn't tempt me to buy 2nd hand if the price is wrong/misleading. How else can garages shift the 2nd hand cars without dropping the prices and perhaps even making a loss on them. The longer they leave it the more they'll depreciate naturally anyway. the garages knew this was coming more than anyone, I assume they priced all Jan-April trade-ins very low accordingly.

Beta Ray Bill

We will see the effect the new (joke of a) system has in the next few months

A lot of people are saying how great it is that the C220 diesel is down to 30 something grand, that still very expensive for what is essentially 120PS car

You could get a mid-top end petrol Mondeo for that as opposed to a base model diesel. I know they aren't as exclusive as the Mercs, but soon every tom dick and harry is going to be driving a boring German diesel cause they think they are making a saving... in reality you're not the price has just gone down and it will stay down indefinitely... simple. And on top of that the price of diesel is rising... a lot

(I still cant figure out why as its cheaper to make than petrol... its a dirty fuel)

I'm dying to see how this pans out. a mate of my VRT'd an RX7 there on Monday... he said the queue was out the door! he had to wait 4 hours. and on that. I wonder how the likes of Japcars, Per4mance car, Northside Automotive etc are going to do?

I recon these people will go out of business. which inst good

pburns

Hanley wrote: »

Wait... then why is everyone whinging about it being the governments fault...??

Seriously, my points come from talking to a few dealers involved in the trade. The majority of them seem to have high hundreds of thousands/millions tied up in stock that's not selling.

I honestly can't believe that everyone expected the good times to go on forever... I know alot of people who dropped out of school to go into the building trade cos there was a boom on, i said then it couldn't last, we'd reach a saturation point and they'd be up sh!t creek without a paddle. The same thing seems to be happening to the motor trade now...

+1

To an extent anyway...

The FFers were in cahoots with the builders to drive on property prices (and by implication tax revenue). It was a very short-sighted policy.

However people need to take responsibility for their own actions instead of blaming the government, the builders, the motor trade etc. No-one put a gun to your head and made you take out a 100% mortgage and a 30 grand loan on a new BMW. Too many gob****es living on easy credit...

E92

Premium badge saloons cost more to buy but retain their value so much better too. Therefore going for a high spec Mondeo over a bog spec C-class is actually dearer.

I'll have my bog spec premium badge saloon thank you very much that being the case. Mondeos, Avensis etc only make sense when they're cheaper than a BMW/Merc etc, not when they costing the same to buy, no matter how good the spec is. When 3 series and A4s and C-classes were selling for mid 40s new they were too expensive, now that they are mid to late 30s they are "gonna be everywhere". You can't have it both ways, though given the way some posters hate all German engineered cars it is hardly surprising that we see such hypocrisy is it?

Btw, a C200 CDI has 136 bhp, not 120 bhp as stated earlier.

EternalSunshine

junkyard wrote: »

There's no big rush on for new cars with the new VRT system in place, any of the sales men I know in the different main dealers around the place have said it's an absolute disaster all round, nobody bought before it and nobody's buying now. If this keeps up most of us are out of a job in a few months. It amazes me how this government has ruined so many businesses one after the other, they simply haven't a clue how to run anything, farming, taxies, fishing, health, education and now the motor industry, what next!!!

Were you full of praise for the government when cars were selling themselves or do you just like to moan and complain when things are not going your way.

EternalSunshine

pburns wrote: »

+1

To an extent anyway...

The FFers were in cahoots with the builders to drive on property prices (and by implication tax revenue). It was a very short-sighted policy.

However people need to take responsibility for their own actions instead of blaming the government, the builders, the motor trade etc. No-one put a gun to your head and made you take out a 100% mortgage and a 30 grand loan on a new BMW. Too many gob****es living on easy credit...

Do really people believe this stuff that the 'government was in cahoots with the builders'.......

Its called greed and its no ones fault except that of general materialism.

cashmni1

Anan1 wrote: »

Three in the past year.

Isn't this a good thing for drivers? (Excluding the few who intend on selling their cars and retiring from driving)

Well, ok then, you (I think) are an exception to what I was saying. You bought 3 cars in the last year. Well wear, for all 3 cars.
Anyway, if you had something to trade against your 3 cars, you would find that the garages would give you very little for the car you wanted to trade in. So, that is where you would feel the pinch.
If you did not have a car to trade, you are in luck. It's bonanza time in Ireland and you get a great deal on one of our lovely second hand cars, please take one for a test drive!!
Anyway, I'm just a little miffed because I cannot sell my car at the mo. It doesn't look too good in the future either.
As for the dealers, yes they had it good. No, they don't have a bright future, But I think its like any other buisness. You get good ones and bad ones. Just like everything elce. I do feel for the good ones. They have all that money tied up in stock, and now through circumstances out of their control, they are looking at bankruptcy. Nobody wants people ending up like that. Its bad for all of us.

cashmni1

pburns wrote: »

+1

To an extent anyway...

The FFers were in cahoots with the builders to drive on property prices (and by implication tax revenue). It was a very short-sighted policy.

However people need to take responsibility for their own actions instead of blaming the government, the builders, the motor trade etc. No-one put a gun to your head and made you take out a 100% mortgage and a 30 grand loan on a new BMW. Too many gob****es living on easy credit...

Easy credit is it??
How and where do I get this "easy credit" now?

I think you are a bit harsh on people who took out a 100% mortgages. Some people had no other option and it suited their means.
Banks have a lot to be accountable for also you know. Its not just the "Gob****es".

Anan1

cashmni1 wrote: »

Anyway, I'm just a little miffed because I cannot sell my car at the mo. It doesn't look too good in the future either.

Do you mean sell and not replace? If so, then you're right - it's not a good situation for you. If you're trading up, though, then the loss on your trade-in will be more than compensated for by the lower price of your new(er) car. As an aside, trading in a car as opposed to selling privately is quite an expensive convenience.

cashmni1

Anan1 wrote: »

Do you mean sell and not replace? If so, then you're right - it's not a good situation for you. If you're trading up, though, then the loss on your trade-in will be more than compensated for by the lower price of your new(er) car. As an aside, trading in a car as opposed to selling privately is quite an expensive convenience.

Agreed Anan1, sorry, yes I am trying to sell privately (Mortgage). But I will replace next year. I have already bought a small car van for a cheap run about.
Buyers market alright.

Beta Ray Bill

E92 wrote: »

Premium badge saloons cost more to buy but retain their value so much better too. Therefore going for a high spec Mondeo over a bog spec C-class is actually dearer.

I'll have my bog spec premium badge saloon thank you very much that being the case. Mondeos, Avensis etc only make sense when they're cheaper than a BMW/Merc etc, not when they costing the same to buy, no matter how good the spec is. When 3 series and A4s and C-classes were selling for mid 40s new they were too expensive, now that they are mid to late 30s they are "gonna be everywhere". You can't have it both ways, though given the way some posters hate all German engineered cars it is hardly surprising that we see such hypocrisy is it?

Btw, a C200 CDI has 136 bhp, not 120 bhp as stated earlier.

Apologies for the bhp mistake

However I still think anyone who would buy a CDI200 at €39,900 is nuts!

You are paying for a badge like, and as a second hand buyer I would be more interested in getting a good car than a good name (now im not saying that mercs arent good cars) but its like everything with a "Name" you will pay extra for that little badge on the Front and Back of the car.

As far as accessories go whats standard on the C200 CDI?

I wouldn't imagine much and buy the time you add on things like cruise control sunroof etc etc you'd be up to the elegance price range.

I just think they are very over priced for the type of car they are.
even with 136bhp they are a big heavy car, my dad went to test one a few months back and he said it wouldn't pull the knickers off brazer! (although the same can be said for the Zetec Focus he bought as its only a 1.4)

Theres not point in saying that you're paying for German build quality as all main stream market new cars of that class have excellent build quality and reliability. I could never justify spending that much money on a car like that.