why is there not mental health forum on this site

Wibbs

That's it in a nutshell.

Terry

tallaght01 wrote: »

We have to ask ourselves what exactly are we trying to offer those with a mental illness?

Let's look at that first, in a completely non narcissistic way, and then decide if we can realistically provide it.

I'd like to think it's something along the lines of letting others know they are not alone and that it is not something to be ashamed of.

This isn't the 1950's, where you end up in Arkham, or the middle ages, where you are burned at the stake.

We live in a slightly more enlightened society and a time when mental illness should be accepted.

Christ, it only took 25 years for A.I.D.S. to lost the majority of stigmas attached to it.

g'em

tallaght01 wrote: »

We have to ask ourselves what exactly are we trying to offer those with a mental illness

I spent a lot of time on a very supportive forum when I was at my worst and in all honesty it was my lifeline on a day to day basis. There was an amazing comfort knowing I could speak to other people who "got it" and who I didn't have to make excuses to for why I was feeling the way I was. It wasn't run by health professionals, just a couple of folk who wanted to set up a place to talk and it's since grown and become quite big. There's zero tolerance for muppetry which helped hugely.

Conversely (and I say this because the idea was mentioned earlier in the thread I think) when I went to sites that were for family members and friends of those with mental health issues I found them horrendous; they seemed to be more b!tch-fests about the sufferer than anything and it was awful.

I don't spend a lot of time in LTI so I can't comment about how it's run (although knowing - in the knowing on teh interweb sense - a few of the folk who frequent those parts I'm sure it's a great resource and very supportive) maybe a private forum for those who have long-term difficulties in dealing with the day to day battles of mental health would benefit from an area to just "be".

That's my 2c anyway

tbh

can I just suggest that you have a look in the threads in LTI, and see if you think they are sufficient or if something more is needed. I've too much respect for the posters in there for this to be just me trying to protect the forum - if there is a need to change, I'll be the first to support it, but I can't help feeling that maybe people are looking for a resource that's already there, just because LTI doesn't get a lot of traffic (which, I have to say, is actually a good thing)

no matter how I try to phrase that, it still sounds like me trying to defend LTI, I promise, it's not that at all.

g'em

ah no I know exactly what you mean. To be honest I stick my head in there on occasion. There are times that I've wanted to post myself but... I dunno, I guess there seems to be much more important stuff going in there!!

Even behind a username you're never really anonymous on the board and that would trouble me. From a completely personal point of view neither the LTI forum and the Biology Medical Forum were never quite where I wanted to post simply because I didn't actually have any questions or medication issues, I knew what was wrong but I just needed to share and hear someone say "I know how you feel, but it'll get better".

Maybe this is a really silly thing to say (it usually is where I'm concerned) but when someone who had never had mental health issues says "you'll be fine" I'd feel my blood start to boil within seconds. But when someone who's been there, seen the depths, swum through them and managed to make it to the other side in one piece says "you'll be fine" there's some weight behind it and it's amazingly reassuring.

I don't even know if what I'm saying makes any sense now, sorry I'm going a bit garbled

tbh

I'm glad you posted that, because a lot - a LOT - of people feel that way. So let me just add:

ah no I know exactly what you mean. To be honest I stick my head in there on occasion. There are times that I've wanted to post myself but... I dunno, I guess there seems to be much more important stuff going in there!!

A lot of people think that - I felt myself, diabetes is hardly cancer. But, importance is relative - we don't have a certain quota of space that we need to stay under, so we don't delete threads and we don't complain if people just want to vent, or even occasionally feel sorry for themselves. That's the point of the forum

Even behind a username you're never really anonymous on the board and that would trouble me. From a completely personal point of view neither the LTI forum and the Biology Medical Forum were never quite where I wanted to post simply because I didn't actually have any questions or medication issues, I knew what was wrong but I just needed to share and hear someone say "I know how you feel, but it'll get better".

There is anonymous posting in LTI if you need it, and you'll see that we don't worry too much about threads going off-topic. We allow far more "chat" than PI, although there are obvious limits. I've never banned anyone for chatting, and I personally never will, again within obvious limits.

Maybe this is a really silly thing to say (it usually is where I'm concerned) but when someone who had never had mental health issues says "you'll be fine" I'd feel my blood start to boil within seconds. But when someone who's been there, seen the depths, swum through them and managed to make it to the other side in one piece says "you'll be fine" there's some weight behind it and it's amazingly reassuring.

there are very few posters in LTI who don't have an LTI. Therefore, the majority of people who post in there can empathise with what you're going through, and a lot have been in the same situation.

Again, G'em, I'm not arguing the toss with you, just want to let you know that you and anyone else who wants to is very welcome to post in there..

Wibbs

tallaght01 wrote: »

We have to ask ourselves what exactly are we trying to offer those with a mental illness?

When I said that's it in a nutshell, I should have left out the non narcissistic way bit. My bad. Of course that's a problem if taken to the level of smugness. In any case no one helps someone else completely objectively or in a way that doesn't give them pleasure to do so. It's part and parcel of being a social animal. It only becomes narcissistic in extremis. That goes for professionals and non professionals alike. I can think of one counselor I used to know as a mate, who was very narcissistic and smug about helping people. You get all kinds everywhere.

It goes for fellow sufferers too. Sufferers give and recieve help as it gives them comfort to do so. An outlet for that would be good. I just think with the traffic around here on an open forum that could go pear shaped. That's my issue. The LTI forum has had some great threads on the subject and little muppetry from what I saw. That's down to the bloody good modding and I suspect less traffic.

I agree with tallaght01 when he asks what are we trying to offer. I'd say that there is some need that may be well served by a seperate forum. Offer that, but minimise the pitfalls.

know I said it earlier, but could you not have an invite only forum. Someone wants to join, PM a mod of said forum and give a bit of background and in you go. It would likely stop or hinder the cases that are more acute and may prove very worthwhile to those who just want a safe place, free of muppets, to just share their experiences. That I could see working.

I'd love to see it as a public forum where people could be educated on this. It's sorely needed. So it's sad that you would have to go private for something that's just another illness. One of many that afflicts us. If this was a request for an allergy forum, it would be a non event.

tbh

all the mods of LTI appreciate all the nice comments, but really it's down to the posters - I can't remember ever having to step in to mod a thread..

nesf

tallaght01 wrote: »

We have to ask ourselves what exactly are we trying to offer those with a mental illness?

What happens on LTI except being easier to find would be a good thing I think. Just having a place to talk about mental illness and get serious replies is good. The discussion doesn't have to be extremely complicated or anything, even basic discussion of what it feels like to be stuck in a psychotic or depressive state can be enlightening. I like LTI but I don't think that I would realise to go there if I wasn't so familiar with the site.

Mental illness is not something that most people find easy to talk about, giving them an outlet is a good thing I think.

Edit: Some form of redirect to LTI might do the job perhaps? Just making LTI easier to find for people wanting to talk about mental illness might be a good thing?

TequilaMockingBird

If I may add a point.

All this talk of private forums, anon posting, locking threads etc is just fuelling the fire of discrimination towards mental health sufferers. This is not helping bring this illness out into society and is encouraging that "shame" which we have to battle, as well as the illness itself.

Mental Illness may up the ante for propensity to commit suicide, but I'm sure some cancer sufferers would be higher on the scale as well, along with many, many other illnesses.

It needs to be accepted as an illness. Just that. Not hidden away. Fair enough if regular users want to use anon posting, it can be good to talk without your "friends" here knowing your personal feelings. I used it myself with brilliant results, but for a different type of problem.

Let someone who has a Long Term Illness use the relevant Forum, and the same with Personal Issues. If someone posts that they are suicidal in either forum, they need to be gently directed to The Samaritans. It is not anyones job here to save lives. Perhaps a standard reply to the poster would be an idea. Something along the lines of we are concerned for your safety etc, but we are not qualified to help you, and you may receive advice that will cause you more harm. Please call this number right now, where you will get help immediately.

Suicide and Mental Health are grouped together too often, and the fact that we hide this illness so much exaserbates this problem. If someone has cancer they are not programmed to hide it away, hide their meds, not talk about it or pretend all is well and carry on through life hiding it.

I suffer depression, and will always have it, its a pain in the ar*e, but I get fed up of feeling ashamed of it and I'm a 37 year old female. If I was a 22 year old bloke, programmed through life and society to be hard, and tough and a "man", this would be a disaster. Where on earth would I feel I could turn? As with any other illness, bring it out into the open.

Sorry if this doesn't make any sense, its just my opinion on the whole thing anyway.

Sully

The suggestions of it being limited to certain people are not as a way to discriminate but to avoid trolls and trouble makers who might just tip a person over the edge.

As a Mental Health forum is a lot more sensitive to the Personal Issues forum, extra care needs to be taken to avoid such problems. Limiting access to request only is one suggested method which might cut out those who are not serious about the forum and leave people behind who are willing to discuss it sensibly.

At the moment, I dont think its wise we allow public support. At least, not without the proper resources in place. For the moment, some level of discussion should be permitted but we need to ask ourselves, what can we discuss it? How can we discuss mental helth illnesses without giving support? Does Long Term Ilness forum not cover this already?

I do agree that mental health is left as something not to discuss in general (not on Boards, but in life in general) as is sucide. I fully support any suggestions to stop this. However, we need to be careful and consider each proposal carefully.

Marcus.Aurelius

tallaght01 wrote: »

We have to ask ourselves what exactly are we trying to offer those with a mental illness?

Like minded company?

But seriously, it would be a serious drain on anyone who would elect to moderate it. There would be some extremely difficult issues to deal with, I can only see it happen as a child of Personal Issues and the Medical Fora.

And then, its up to the regular posters of each to give their opinions as regards feasability, as I assume they would like to help out (If nobody will help out, its a bit pointless, even though private is the way to go!). Personally, I think it could be good, but not easy if it gets a lot of use or even worse, media attention!

tbh

ok, maybe it's just me, so I'm going to put this as bluntly as I can.

what is it that people want that's not already available in LTI?

nesf

sueme wrote: »

This is not helping bring this illness out into society and is encouraging that "shame" which we have to battle, as well as the illness itself.

That is unfortunately the reality though and any effort to encourage mental health discussion needs to take account of it. Keeping trolls out or encouraging a more serious tone by having it in Sci are small things but they're more protective rather than restrictive in motive I feel.

tbh wrote: »

what is it that people want that's not already available in LTI?

More visibility of the discussion going on in LTI. LTI as a name doesn't automatically imply mental illness for me, neither does disability either though mental illness is commonly classifies as both in some situations. This may or may not be something worth changing though, it may draw more trouble on LTI than it may be worth.

Sully

tbh wrote: »

ok, maybe it's just me, so I'm going to put this as bluntly as I can.

what is it that people want that's not already available in LTI?

I think the idea is for illnesess as big as this, that it should be able to have its own forum instead of a summary forum.

Victor

orestes wrote: »

I thought boards is a mental health forum?

I just kinda take it for granted that everyone on here is mentally unstable in one way or another and relating to each other on here is our way of dealing with it.

Thunderdome for the anger management cases, Cuckoos nest for those with chronic dementia, Feedback for the people strangely obsessed with pictures of cats, and After Hours for the downright incurably bloody mental

A difference exists between those who are functioning and non-functioning.

Looby_Loo

Forgive my ignorance as I am pretty new to Boards but how big a danger are trolls to a possible mental health forum?

On the other message board I mentioned before there are active threads on depression, anxiety, recovery, experiences of various psychotropic medications and OCD. Because its an area of the site that stays relatively quiet it doesnt get troll hits- they are reserved for the high traffic areas.
I might think that it would be similar here.

Making a differentiation between an information/ support forum for people with mental health problems and one for the physically disabled just adds to the stigma attached to psychiatry.

I know that its human nature to look differently on what we dont understand. Even as a mental health professional, I have been looked down on by people who have studied for the same amount of time as I but who have a slightly different qualifications. We are regarded as the "poor cousins" in the medical setting. And if I have experienced stigma, I can only imagine how people who use our service may feel. Indeed I spoke just last week to a lady who has been in hospital for a long stay. She is improving now, but told me that she is nearly afraid of being discharged from hospital just because people will know that she has been in a psychiatric ward and will look down on her for it.

It is for that reason that I feel a forum would be a good idea. Mental health problems can happen anyone from childhood to old age, no one is immune. So surely the more resources available to those affected, the better. It is a cliche but so often "a problem shared is a problem halved" and having somewhere non judgemental/ anonymous may be an important first step to finding the courage to gettng real help.

Apologies for the disjointed post. I was writing as ideas came to me

GuanYin

OK. tbh and I (along with tallaght01) have been discussing the current make up of the Sci cat in terms of medicine and health. In particular, we're looking at defining the forums more clearly where possible and including additional forums to separate support discussion from information resource.

When we conclude our discussions, we'll make changes and hopefully there will be a satisfactory resolution for everyone.

However, as I said before, as far as I'm concerned there will be no Mental Health Forum in Sci and it appears the admins support this.

Sully

GuanYin wrote: »

However, as I said before, as far as I'm concerned there will be no Mental Health Forum in Sci and it appears the admins support this.

Is that not an admins decision, rather then a CMods? I think whats been said as No, so far anyway, is such a forum in relation to support (as you and others have said, which I agree with) - but whats being talked about since that is a forum for general discussion away from LTI (Which I think could be a useful alternative).

DeVore

Any user can review and suggest changes, its happened a few times in the past. A CMod or otherwise and I'll be happy to review the suggestions. Ultimately the decision lies with the admins but we are always prepared to be guided.

We would not be likely to support a mental health forum but I would consider it a great addition if we had a stickied list of places to seek help (I think we already do in PI, no?)

btw, trolls would be an immediate and persistent problem imho. Some people are just dicks.

DeV.

Marcus.Aurelius

DeVore wrote: »

btw, trolls would be an immediate and persistent problem imho. Some people are just dicks.

If that's an issue, perhaps a trial run of the forum could be run for a month or so, if it gets plagued by spammers or isn't used at all, at least we would have tried.

Might stop the issue re-arising every few months.

Terry

sueme wrote: »

I suffer depression, and will always have it, its a pain in the ar*e, but I get fed up of feeling ashamed of it and I'm a 37 year old female. If I was a 22 year old bloke, programmed through life and society to be hard, and tough and a "man", this would be a disaster. Where on earth would I feel I could turn? As with any other illness, bring it out into the open.

I was at a funeral yesterday.
A cousin of mine, who was in his early 50's committed suicide last Saturday.
The one person he felt he could turn to died a couple of months back.

He was of the old school of thought, that men don't get depressed.

I spoke with his brother and the brother was adamant that his cause of death not be covered up and he felt that it is something that shouldn't be hidden.
His thinking was that if it was spoken about more openly, his brother may still be alive.

On that note, perhaps a name change and a more easily findable placing for the LTI forum would be apt.

GuanYin

Dev. We (the med mods) are discussing how the current forums could be better streamed. I recently recieved a pm from cult telling us we (cmods) should not be afraid to suggest on issues pertaining to the cats we mod and we were trusted with the running of them. It was in light of this mail i said i would not see a MH forum. Sorry if I misread cult.

Sully

GuanYin wrote: »

Dev. We (the med mods) are discussing how the current forums could be better streamed. I recently recieved a pm from cult telling us we (cmods) should not be afraid to suggest on issues pertaining to the cats we mod and we were trusted with the running of them. It was in light of this mail i said i would not see a MH forum. Sorry if I misread cult.

I think your misreading (maybe) what I meant by my question to DeV... I was just curious as I was of the understanding the final decision lies with the admins (not Cmods) and either mods/cmods/smods give their opinions to aid in the decision making. But, the end decision would be up to the admins.

I assume (obviously I haven't seen the PM) that's what CuLT meant (based on your post above). But, maybe not - wouldn't that have always been the case anyway?

Anywhome, lets swing this back on topic... Agree with what's been suggested by Terry. I think LTI is a bit to broad, and either we need a section to discuss MH or change thing a bit in LTI.

DeVore

I'm confused, I was trying to say that I'm very supportive of cMods suggesting changes and indeed I widen that to all interested users in fact. We've had plenty of times before when users have suggested better taxonomies and we've adopted all, part, none of their suggestions!

I'm actually quite happy you would take the time out to give us your (med mods) collective thoughts.

DeV.

tbh

Sully wrote: »

... Agree with what's been suggested by Terry. I think LTI is a bit to broad, and either we need a section to discuss MH or change thing a bit in LTI.

ok, change things how?

edit:
hang on, isn't terry saying lti should stay the way it is (except for a rename?) I'm getting lost.

nesf

tbh wrote: »

hang on, isn't terry saying lti should stay the way it is (except for a rename?) I'm getting lost.

Pretty much, and possibly a movement to being a forum in Sci rather than a sub-forum of Bio/Med I think.

Terry

nesf wrote: »

Pretty much, and possibly a movement to being a forum in Sci rather than a sub-forum of Bio/Med I think.

Yep, that's what I meant.

A name like "long term health issues" or something more descriptive and move it to the main science catergory.
Also a description which details how it covers all long term illnesses including cancer, mental health, psoriasis and pretty much anything that people suffer from for long periods of time.

My opinion is that it really shouldn't be a sub forum.
Are not one in three affected by cancer at some point in their lives?
More visibility may bring more visitors and may help more people, which is what it's all about really.

Off the top of my head, I can think of three mods who have recently posted about these types of issues in the mod forum.
I'm sure there are plenty more users who would have similar ailments, but are not aware of the LTI forum and the support it provides.

aislingm137

u have forums here about politics and religion for God sake, the two main thing that cause wars! and u have forums about mustard, that is a big joke!,that is too stupid to laugh about it even! you have forums about anything but you dont want to have a support forum for people that have mental health problems. its so irish to hide it all away and not be honest with urself and others and not tell it like it is.

Wibbs

I agree. Mental health is a big problem in this country. The stigma attached to it is stupidly bad. In an ideal world this would be all out in the open and treated like any other illness, which it should be.

The simple problem is that if I go on the mustard forum and write "you know you should try columbian fire mustard" and someone does and gets a dose of the trots that's approaching funny.

If I or anyone else gives the wrong advice or says the wrong thing to a vulnerable person, regardless of good intentions, that could be very very serious indeed.

Every day there are people lost to us that are attending professionals, who are fully trained and have the background to the person and have a range of therapies to choose from.

If fully qualified people sometimes lose the battle with people they're trying to help, how much more dangerous is it with unqualified strangers on the internet?

Yes this site has been lucky so far, but luck could too easily be stretched if we're not very careful.