Pilot Training in Waterford

NKJCPM

Is the place in Waterford (pilottraining.ie) any good? It seems that with them you can attain a frozen ATPL in 12 months. Is this true? Should I have a Uni degree before going to study here? Is physics for leaving cert essential? Finally can someone speciify in detail the career path to getting to airline pilot?

Thanks people, sorry for all the q's

wittymoniker

don't know much about waterford but an ATPL(F) anywhere in 12 months is a big ask. i'm sure it's a grand place but no school can make a promise like that. be careful of any school asking for cash up front, the memory of ECA in cork is a bitter one. also, they seem pretty keen on getting you into a shirt and eppalettes before you throw your leg over a plane.
no need for a degree, physics is handy but not essential.
you seem to know the route to take already: fly, solo, exams, fly, PPL, fly, exams, commercial, IR, multi, job.
however much you think it'll cost, add 50% and however long you think it'll take, add 50%... at least.

NKJCPM

wittymoniker wrote: »

don't know much about waterford but an ATPL(F) anywhere in 12 months is a big ask. i'm sure it's a grand place but no school can make a promise like that. be careful of any school asking for cash up front, the memory of ECA in cork is a bitter one. also, they seem pretty keen on getting you into a shirt and eppalettes before you throw your leg over a plane.
no need for a degree, physics is handy but not essential.
you seem to know the route to take already: fly, solo, exams, fly, PPL, fly, exams, commercial, IR, multi, job.
however much you think it'll cost, add 50% and however long you think it'll take, add 50%... at least.

Thanks a mil, where could i work as a commercial pilot?

wittymoniker

job market changes like the weather. by the time you finish training the picture will be very different so i'd suggest you start flying because you enjoy it, not with the goal of an airline job in mind, you may end up instructing, doing aerial photography, para ops for a while to build time.
until recently you could pay ryanair to give you a job but they are grounding a couple of dozen a/c so they may not be hiring for long.
aer arann charge new joiners, city jet is free but bonded and aer lingus do what they like. there are of course jobs overseas, mid and far east if you're willing to leave home and as a wouldbe pilot, i guess you are!

chickenhawk

They say a lot of things in waterford. 12 months is not possable. It is taking most people 16 months or so. Having said that I don't think it is any faster anywhere else. It's not a bad place and is getting better every year.

You don't need a degree. Although from what i've seen the people that do the best on the course and job wise are over 23. It would be harder to find a job if you are 19-20. But not impossable.

cp251

PTC have been getting some bad reviews of late. They are perhaps no better or worse than other flight schools in Ireland. However they are expensive for what they offer. If you have the money they look for. I would recommend other places in the UK or Spain or the USA.

There are cheaper places with exactly the same standards all over the place. As for their 98% of graduates getting a job claim. I would be wary of that.

You don't need a degree to be a pilot. Frankly you don't even need a Leaving cert. However it helps to have both. In any case most pilots are well educated. A degree is a good idea in case the flying career doesn't work out. Mostly you need money. Between 60 and 100k. That's the main criterion these days. Do some research, do not believe the hype flying schools tell you. I suggest you go to PPRuNe.org and look up the wannabees section.

Read this thread before you post there:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/131649-archive-reference-threads-posting-guidelines-read-before-you-post-question.html

Be prepared to be disillusioned. But if you really want to fly it won't put you off.

Flying is not the career it once was but it still has it's attractions.

damo

Just be careful with pprune, its got loads of great info, but at the same time it is full of unbelievably negative people. Pinch of salt may be necessary.

If you want some more info on ptc pm me, ive been through from 0-frozen atpl, so know all about the pros and cons of the place!

NKJCPM

Also, is this the only place in Ireland where you can study to Frozen ATPL level?

Thanks

chickenhawk

No it's not the only place but it would be the biggest. I don't know enough about the rest to say more.

If I was doing it again, for the amount ptc are asking now, I would go to Oxford.

NKJCPM

Oxford appear to charge £63,000 just for ATPL training?

cp251

That is for their integrated course. Oxford, rightly or wrongly are considered among the best flight schools in the world. Aer Lingus have been known to simply hire graduates straight from OAA.

PTC offer modular. As the name implies an integrated course combines all the elements of flight training in one continuous course usually taknig a year and a few months. Modular is done in stages. PPL, then hour building until you have the requisite hours, then a CPL module, then a Multi Engine/Instrument rating module.

Which is better? Neither, the integrated course is more expensive usually and is favoured by the likes of Aer Lingus and BA. But the result is the same except that the integrated trainee usually spends more money.

The main advantage of the modular is that you don't have to raise all the money at once. It can be done over several years. Integrated courses need money up front.

The problem with PTC is that it's costed like an integrated course without being an integrated course. You can do exactly the same training at other schools for much less money. That may not seem like an issue but when you consider that many airlines now expect you to fund specific type training when they hire you. That money could be better spent on that.

NKJCPM

What about this course though?

http://pilottraining.ie/courses/airline_pilot_training.php

Physics is a requirement in Oxford and also I dont have the financial requirements to get there. Do any pilots who qualify from PTC get jobs after their first interview? It says there is guaranteed interviews with major airlines?

NKJCPM

Or is this good?

http://www.basair.com.au/

I have family in Australia and it appears to be far cheaper than any other course.

My mum just found this as well, it looks brilliant and is basically exactly what I want...

http://pilottraining.ie/flybe_programme_introduction.php

That seems brilliant. It is exactly what I want.

Thanks for any input...

NKJCPM

chickenhawk

NKJCPM wrote: »

What about this course though?

http://pilottraining.ie/courses/airline_pilot_training.php

Physics is a requirement in Oxford and also I dont have the financial requirements to get there. Do any pilots who qualify from PTC get jobs after their first interview? It says there is guaranteed interviews with major airlines?

PTC now do an intergrated classroom based course if I am not mistaken. I'm not sure if it is only for flybe cadets.

PTC graduates do get hired. Ryanair, flybe, aer arann etc.

NKJCPM wrote: »

Or is this good?

My mum just found this as well, it looks brilliant and is basically exactly what I want...

http://pilottraining.ie/flybe_programme_introduction.php

That seems brilliant. It is exactly what I want.

Thanks for any input...

NKJCPM

The Flybe programme I don't know much about. But I know it costs more. You have to have high grades to keep in it. And you still have to pass an interview with Flybe before you can fly with them. Also the Q400 is a turbo prop. Some pilots prefer to have jet time but it really doesn't matter two much after you get your first job. Also make sure you know if you have to stay with Flybe for a certain amount of years before moving on.

My advice would be to call PTC and talk to them. (beware they are trying to sell you a product and are good. Don't take everything at face value.)

Then get your class one medical. Without that you ain't going anywhere.

cp251

Don't bother with Basair, They offer Australian licences. You'd have to convert to JAA on your return. On the other hand these guys offer full JAA courses either integrated or modular under the auspices of the CAA.

http://www.waaviationcollege.com.au/

As for the FlyBe course, remember this is for the benefit of the airline and the school, not you. Remember too that there is NO guaranteed job at the end. This applies to all schools offering mentored courses.

Chickhawk said:

Some pilots prefer to have jet time but it really doesn't matter two much after you get your first job.

There are far too many new young pilots who are entranced with the idea of going straight onto jets just after training. So they sit at home barely flying waiting for the big airline job to knock on their door. Believe me, eventually most would be glad if someone paid them to fly a ratty Cessna 150 for expenses. Particuarly with the current economic downturn.

At the moment many airlines want at least a minimum of 500 hours before even considering you. Either that or 25K to type rate you.

Do plenty of research before you pick a flying school. With modular, you can pick and choose places to train and save a fortune. If you have 100k to spend it is much better to spend 50 or 60k on training and use the rest to build hours or get an Instructor rating or use it pay Ryanair the ransom, sorry fee for your type rating.

Bear in mind the favourite joke about newly graduated pilots. 'What do you say to a recently graduated CPL/Multi/IR (Frozen ATPL)?
Can I have a Big Mac and fries please?

NKJCPM

Is there a certain age I should be to do this course or should I do it straight out of secondary school?Also, how do people finance the training, do any banks give loans?

ImDave

NKJCPM wrote: »

Is there a certain age I should be to do this course or should I do it straight out of secondary school?Also, how do people finance the training, do any banks give loans?

AIB offer a loan package in conjunction with PTC. The college will provide you with details of how to apply etc. There is no certain age, probably required to be over 18 however. You can do it straight out of school no problem, however I would always advise that if you have the option to go to college to do that first. Remember, even after doing a four year degree, you will be only 22 when starting pilot training, and could be in the job market for 24. Thats still quite young!

cp251

Be wary of deals through schools. It may not be the cheapest option. There are various ways of raising the money. If your parents have too much money and are not yet sick of paying for your every whim. Then you can do what you like. Possibly they can borrow the money for you or guarantor the loan or release some equity on the house to pay for it. (That's risky though). Most banks will loan the money as long as they are sure someone will pay it back. So don't tie yourself to any one bank.

However you really don't need to raise all the money at once unless you are doing an integrated course or one like PTC where you need the money up front. What most people do is to pay as you go on the modular system. Spreading the load over a few years is far less painful than one big loan.

You can do from school but like DAV I would advise thinking seriously about college. That's what I would suggest for my son if he wanted to be a pilot. It is surprising how often the pilot thing doesn't work out, so many find themselves with massive debts and no back up plan. If I lost my pilot job. I would end up in a low paid, low status job simply because I have no qualifications and precious little experience in any other career. That's quite a scary thought when you have mortgage and children.

If you are really keen on courses tied to airlines, look at Sigmar aviation. They do a course linked to Cityjet. Again it's ludicrously expensive for what you get but they offer the possibility of a job with Cityjet. But as ever you can do all the training yourself much more cheaply and still get Cityjet or Aer Arann, Ryanair, Aer Lingus, FlyBe, EasyJet........etc

The main thing is don't be in any hurry to decide. Take your time to research the options. That's the advice I would give to anyone considering a career in flying.

And definitely look at PPRuNe, read the appropriate threads. Ignore the gloomy stuff as advised. But there is loads of useful hints and tips there.

Also have a look at flyinginireland.com. Not as good but some people there have been through much the same process as you.

Here's the link to FlyBe's sponsorship program webpage. Note they have six 'partners'. Of the six three offer an integrated course OAA, Cabair and FTE. The others modular. A price comparison would be interesting.

http://www.flybe.com/vacancies/pilots_sponsorship.htm

NKJCPM

Well I would like to be a pilot for a foreign airline, air qatar, american airlines, klm something like that but I want to train here, what would be the best way to go about doing that?

And also, if I want to change airline halfway through my career, I go back to the bottom of the career ladder right? Being a first officer wouldn't bother me at all though to be honest

wittymoniker

get some qualifications under your belt first, then start thinking about wheather or not you'll accept an FO's job!
market forces at the time will dictate if or where you get hired but at the moment middle and far eastern airlines are the only ones with positions on offer.
ring around or visit a few schools and decide for yourself where you like and most important, enjoy it.

cp251

what would be the best way to go about doing that?

Ah the optimism of youth! You certainly won't get American Airlines because (a) you are not American and (b) they just got rid of a load of pilots. In general too, US airlines often look for four year college degrees and you usually have to spend time flying for a regional airline where current salaries about $16,000 to $20,000 a year, No, I haven't left out a zero.

You have a long way to go before even thinking about stuff like that.

NKJCPM

Yea but you know what i mean, any decent international foreign airline unless aer lingus are accepting

I know someone who lives in Dubai and flys for Air Qatar and he doesnt have a college degree...

yaeger

Hey listen first things first !
You wanna fly, so what do you know about the job??? anything ? if not get researching the net and read books.
If you wanna train in ireland for the commercial license it can only be PTC waterford / NFC weston / atlantic cork, there are loads of places in UK and rest of europe and the states, Especially in the UK there are more choices and in my experience better quality schools to choose from.
If you wanna fly airliners you need a Class one medical, Go pay the mater hospistal few hundred euro for that, and then for the flight training get yourself the thicker end of 100K. How...well go earn it or get a loan but id advise against that for a million and one reasons.
Every airline and every aircraft type will have different pay scales etc etc so if and when your qualified the hardest part is to get that first job....airline or otherwise and for a reality check you will be joining a que of HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of job hunters who have been flooding the market for years out for the same jobs and i kid you not so you take what you get really. Its a long long road for some with some lucky people get employed within hours of qualifying and some taken decades to move up through the ranks and a LARGE majority never making it,,,To chase this its a life changing decision and will effect your life for years to come so sit and think hard about it, dream it but understand it also or you will be burnt. I wish you all the best as it can be the best and worst time of your life believe me, but every 747 captain had to have their first 1hr intro in a cessna 150 so whats stopping you.

Get researching the training, you should soon know the full course of training required to get to the employable stage.

Regards y

Feelgood

I went to an open day for the Waterford pilot training college, really seems excellent and they can customize the course for your requirements. i.e. if you only want to train for 3 days a week they can do that. College is pretty class. Instructors are all ex Aer Finglas / BA, etc so you would get top notch training.

Now for the tricky part.....

The 12 month pilot training course in Waterford - while it does more or less guarantee you a job on completion costs €85000!!!!!

I have a mate in Daytona Beach at the moment doing exactly the same 12 month course for around $50000. Though you still have to do a JAR conversion course if you wish to fly in Europe after that. Think thats in or around €10 - 15k.

You are at the right age to start looking at it though. Even if you have to get finance to do the course, think of it this way you will only be 24 or 25 when you pay that finance off and at that stage you will have racked up enough hours to get a captains job...

NKJCPM

Thanks feelgood you really made me feel good haha

Yea, Ive been researching it a lot for the past year or two, and its been my dream since i was 5 or 6, my mam looked into it quite a lot as well, it's really what I want to do and obviously you start at the bottom at a regional airline work your way up then apply for the international, I dont mind, its just what ill love to do and i suppose the money will be an incentive for me:)

Can someone tell me though, is flying really physics orientated or is it more about concentration, multitasking etc?

Feelgood

NKJCPM wrote: »

Thanks feelgood you really made me feel good haha

Yea, Ive been researching it a lot for the past year or two, and its been my dream since i was 5 or 6, my mam looked into it quite a lot as well, it's really what I want to do and obviously you start at the bottom at a regional airline work your way up then apply for the international, I dont mind, its just what ill love to do and i suppose the money will be an incentive for me:)

Can someone tell me though, is flying really physics orientated or is it more about concentration, multitasking etc?

Listen dude, you know what the best thing to do is??.

Go out to PC world tomorrow, get yourself a logitech wingman joystick and a copy of Microsoft Flight Simulator 2004 / or Flight Simulator X. It will actually give you a good idea of whats involved in flying...

I have another mate who used to be with Ryanair though is now in Dubai flying with Emirates. Emirates pay for his house, car and for his kids to go to school!. So even though its a lot of money to start out with it can be a very rewarding career.

If I was you I would think about a private pilots license first before taking the plunge and going for a commercial license. Aim for your PPL first and then decide if its a career you want to take. The PPL will only cost you around 5-8k, heck if you were working in McDonalds at the weekends or something you could afford it.

Put it this way, the physics you speak off are like the basics of flying. Its like saying you cant complete a maths calculation without knowing the basics of addition, subtraction etc. Thats what the physics are, the basics. Yes you need to know them and they will be part of your daily job as a pilot but they aren't what the job entails. A pilots job is about safely operating, controlling and navigating the airplane. Like I drive a car through various weather conditions, I have to know the basic physics of how the car operates and moves through these weather conditions but I don't need to know how exactly the car is made up. I don't need to understand how its engine is built etc. Its kindof the same thing with flying...

Have a look at instruction manuals on MS flight sim, they cover the basics of flying. My mate that flys for Emirates learned the basics on MS flight Sim!!.

What I will say is that if it is your dream, then follow it NOW. Your at the perfect age to start something like this. Yes its a lot of money though, your going to be in debt for the rest of your life no matter what career path you choose....

EDIT: Also I see you are from Meath, there are two flying clubs that teach the private pilots license in your area. (Both have ex Aer Lingus pilots too).

http://www.trimflyingclub.com/

http://www.ultraflight.ie/ (Abbeyschrule is close enough to Athboy)

NKJCPM

Haha, im already brilliant at flightsim, i need a new joystick though, I love that program, probably my favourite computer application

I think I might just do an integrated course though at the PTC...

Would an airline hire an 18 year old?

Feelgood

NKJCPM wrote: »

Haha, im already brilliant at flightsim, i need a new joystick though, I love that program, probably my favourite computer application

I think I might just do an integrated course though at the PTC...

Would an airline hire an 18 year old?

What age are you now exactly, have you completed your leaving yet??

NKJCPM

No I'm only 15, just done my junior

Feelgood

NKJCPM wrote: »

No I'm only 15, just done my junior

Perfect you have another 3-6 years to save up for it then!!!

Right then, I would do both Physics and Engineering for your leaving cert
if you are sure that being a pilot is what you want to do. Both subjects also
overlap in a lot of ways and they are very interesting. They will also give you a good grounding for what you will meet in aeronautics.

You don't need a degree to become a pilot, but what I would suggest to definitely go to college when you complete your leaving. Firstly because you don't want to miss out on college life, its an experience. Chicks and booze is a definite must for any 18 year old. The second reason is that, if for some reason your pilot career doesn't work out you have something to fall back on.

Put it this way if you went to college and did say an engineering diploma or degree you could go work as maybe a plane mechanic or technician if piloting didn't work out.

You have loads of time, most people train to be pilots in their late 20's or early 30's!. So take your time, save some money and get yourself a third level education first and then aim towards your goal.

Until then, keeping flying Flight Sim. Ask you parents if they would consider funding some of the privates pilots license for you if you did really good in your leaving and while your at college you could get your privates pilots license out of the way, so that when you leave college you have a good grounding for the commercial pilots license.....

See I have the next 6 years of your life mapped out for you...:D
Study hard kid and the rewards will come.

NKJCPM

Haha thanks, I don't think I'll be doing Engineering or Physics.

I'm inelligble for engineering and I'm just no good at Physics, well im ok but not an a or b in the leaving cert

People have told me that the physics is not a massive part though and if I have the interest in flying, then it will come to me fine...

Yea I think I'll go to college but I may just do that FlyBE cadetship?