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Italian motor industry - on the way back ?

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  • 03-07-2008 9:44am
    #1
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,863 ✭✭✭


    Just reading the review of the MiTo on autoexpress, and it got me thinking.

    In the light of peoples change to diesels ( which the Italians have mastered ) and the masses starting to favor smaller cars, with cars like the Alfa 159,Fiats 500 and Bravo and now the MiTo, is the Italian car industry on the way back?

    Are we once again to see the glory of brilliant engineering coupled with undoubted style ?

    PLEASE DON'T START ALFA BASHING - I AM TALKING ABOUT THE FUTURE !!


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    #2
    S.I.R
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭S.I.R


    Hopefully so, ifthey dont use bosche parts anymore then Great!

    i love the style but hoping they will also improve the mechanics... im not asking for a micale.... but even close to stanard eurpean models would be ideal...


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    #3
    alias no.9
    Registered Users Posts: 6,310 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    Fiats mulitair technology will be really interesting. It eliminates the camshaft altoghether and uses electrohydraulic valves that give fully variable valve opening and timing. Promises to do as much for petrol as common rail did for diesel. They're on a better financial footing these days, so there'll be no sharing of the licensing rights with bosch.


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    #4
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,863 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    alias no.9 wrote: »
    Fiats mulitair technology will be really interesting. It eliminates the camshaft altoghether and uses electrohydraulic valves that give fully variable valve opening and timing. Promises to do as much for petrol as common rail did for diesel. They're on a better financial footing these days, so there'll be no sharing of the licensing rights with bosch.

    F1 technology for the masses!


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    #5
    pburns
    Registered Users Posts: 2,423 ✭✭✭pburns


    I hope so...
    FIAT as a company has undergone a bit of a renaissance in recent years, at least in financial terms. I'm not sure the latest Punto, Bravo etc. are up with the class best though. Also, I drove a 159JTDm last week and was extremely disappointed. It just does not feel like 150bhp and that's down to weight I reckon.

    Not gone on the MiTo but it's the next gen cars I'm looking forward to. I read recently that the 149 will be a completely new platform (not the Bravo one as previously reported) and the 169 (and maybe the 159 replacement?) may be RWD...

    Lancia have been castigated for the new Delta but have you seen the Fulvia? It's yummy:cool:...


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    #6
    jimogr
    Registered Users Posts: 622 ✭✭✭jimogr


    There was an interesting article about the fiat group in the economist in April:

    http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11090197&CFID=11733913&CFTOKEN=19953124


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    #7
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,436 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    I hope so too
    alias no.9 wrote: »
    Promises to do as much for petrol as common rail did for diesel.

    An 80BHP petrol engine producing just 69g/km of CO2. Out next year. Very impressive indeed.
    pburns wrote: »
    the 169 (and maybe the 159 replacement?) may be RWD...

    Very interesting!

    My ads on adverts.ie

    https://www.adverts.ie/member/5856/ads



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    #8
    Teh Russ
    Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭Teh Russ


    Well, Fiat have hardly put a foot wrong lately... the 500, Panda, Punto and Bravo are all great cars (the 500 particularly). They have their faults, but I'd still rather have a Bravo or Punto over, for instance, a Megane or Clio, or a 308 or 207. I, for one, would like to see them get the success that seems to be due to them, and I'm really looking forward to the Alfa MiTo.


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    #9
    TripleAce
    Registered Users Posts: 1,454 ✭✭✭TripleAce


    ALFA AND FIAT RULES!!! :cool:


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    #10
    mthd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 115 ✭✭mthd


    The MiTo GTA will be out next summer with 230bhp :D (from a 1.8l turbo)


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    #11
    dloob
    Registered Users Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭dloob


    I've done my bit, I just got an ex-Demo Bravo T-Jet 150.
    It's quite the change from my 1.4 Leon, which was excellent too with its 7 years of loyal service, apart from one breakdown due to a failed regulator.

    The new Bravo is excellent, very will put together inside too.
    I'll admit I was cautious about it given FIATs rep and there have been a few fix it again tomorrow comments, but no complaints so far.

    It has only been a few days of course :D


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    #12
    E92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭E92


    Doesn't that ultra low emissions petrol have only 2 cylinders? If so it would want to do a lot more to make up for the complete lack of refinement 2 cylinders will no doubt bring. 3 cylinders aren't nice at all compared to even the coarsest 4 cylinder engine, so I'd say unless FIAT can defy the laws of physics then it will be horrible to drive.

    Still, it is interesting to note that both FIAT and PSA, both makers of critically acclaimed diesels, have chosen good old fashioned petrol for their lowest emission models, since PSA have a 1.0 petrol coming that manages less than 100 g/km for CO2 and develops between 70 and 100 bhp.

    Direct injection and forced induction petrols offer all the torque of a diesel, with the superior power, noise and refinement of a petrol and aren't a whole pile worse on CO2 either.

    Could we be seeing the beginning of a petrol revolution, where petrols offer the economy and torque of diesel, but all the (many) advantages of petrol thrown in for good measure? I really hope so:)!

    If FIAT could sort out their dealers, and improve the quality and reliability then there is no reason why Italian cars can't start to make a comeback.


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    #13
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    alias no.9 wrote: »
    Fiats mulitair technology will be really interesting.
    Googling for this I can only find a few things about small 900cc two cylinder engines for city cars?
    E92 wrote:
    If so it would want to do a lot more to make up for the complete lack of refinement 2 cylinders will no doubt bring.
    -If- they can get it to sound like a Harley then all will be forgiven:)


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    #14
    il gatto
    Registered Users Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭il gatto


    They have it sussed in Italy. Small town cars and people carriers (FIAT), sporty saloons and hatches (ALFA) and the sweetest super cars on the planet (FERRARI, LAMBORGHINI, MASERATI). Add to that touring and cruising bikes (MOTO-GUZZI) and sports bikes (MV AGUSTA, APRILLIA, DUCATI, BIMOTA). I put the marques in capitals because when you look at it it's some line up.


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    #15
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    They are targeting the emerging markets like Brazil. One of the lads over there said there are a huge amount of Fiats on Brazilian roads.


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    #16
    Zube
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,502 ✭✭✭Zube


    E92 wrote: »
    Doesn't that ultra low emissions petrol have only 2 cylinders? If so it would want to do a lot more to make up for the complete lack of refinement 2 cylinders will no doubt bring.

    What have you got against Harleys?


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    #17
    alias no.9
    Registered Users Posts: 6,310 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    E92 wrote: »
    Doesn't that ultra low emissions petrol have only 2 cylinders? If so it would want to do a lot more to make up for the complete lack of refinement 2 cylinders will no doubt bring. 3 cylinders aren't nice at all compared to even the coarsest 4 cylinder engine, so I'd say unless FIAT can defy the laws of physics then it will be horrible to drive.

    They use balance shafts to improve refinement, that combined with complete control of the continuously variable valve timing and opening are supposed to make it a world apart from two bangers of old.
    E92 wrote: »
    Still, it is interesting to note that both FIAT and PSA, both makers of critically acclaimed diesels, have chosen good old fashioned petrol for their lowest emission models, since PSA have a 1.0 petrol coming that manages less than 100 g/km for CO2 and develops between 70 and 100 bhp.

    Direct injection and forced induction petrols offer all the torque of a diesel, with the superior power, noise and refinement of a petrol and aren't a whole pile worse on CO2 either.

    Could we be seeing the beginning of a petrol revolution, where petrols offer the economy and torque of diesel, but all the (many) advantages of petrol thrown in for good measure? I really hope so:)!

    This will be a petrol revolution, as big, if not bigger than common rail was for diesel.
    JHMEG wrote: »
    Googling for this I can only find a few things about small 900cc two cylinder engines for city cars?

    There's a 1.4 four cylinder version set to debut in the Alfa MiTo. This will make it into most of the Fiat and Lancia range too. Bigger versions are also in the pipeline.
    I read somewhere that the the two cylinder design is modular with the intention of scaling it by adding extra cylinders of the exact same bore/stroke and valve gear giving massive cost savings so expect to see the 1.4 4 cylinder replaced with a similar capacity 3 cylinder, a 1.8 4 cylinder and 2.3 5 cylinder.
    This could be even be scaled into V6's for Alfa and Lancia, and V8's for Ferrari and Maserati


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    #18
    E92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭E92


    JHMEG wrote: »
    -If- they can get it to sound like a Harley then all will be forgiven:)
    Agreed 100% there.
    alias no.9 wrote: »
    This will be a petrol revolution, as big, if not bigger than common rail was for diesel.

    I can't wait. Diesel is getting dearer, petrols are making big progress on torque and economy, the emissions legislation will make diesels dearer still, so I would say that petrol has already started increasing its betterness than diesel by quite some margin, but anything that restores the old superiority of petrol is to be welcomed:)!


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