Tri Nations 2008: Thread will contain spoilers

il gatto

Good win for Aus but brutal game. I think the IRB are misguided foisting the ELVs on people this year.
Irelands performances in the SH look alright in light of the Tri Nations so far and other NH teams getting a kicking.

pucan

Yawn, NH thinks SH is ****e and vice versa.
Shocking game? Brutal game? Don't worry about going overboard in your critisms.
While it was far from a vintage game, the were excellent passages of play & great defense by both sides.
Any anyone who didn't appreciate the passion and physicality of the SA NZ game should give up.

toomevara

pucan wrote: »

Any anyone who didn't appreciate the passion and physicality of the SA NZ game should give up.

Totally agree, in fact I'm sure I mentioned the commitment of both sides earlier on?..maybe not, anyhoo you're missing the whole point of my contribution to the thread, with respect.

It isnt about SH/NH todger-pulling, I'm all about The ELVs...they're ****e, NOT SH rugby or their obscenely talented/committed/passionate etc...ad nauseum players....think you might have had a quick peruse and gotten the wrong end of the stick...

il gatto

Yeah. When it comes to comps and tradition, I think the NH is better, but when it comes to all out criticism and hemisphere based chest beating, it's pointless, and anyway, with their players, they'll always win that argument.
ELV's on the other hand are a crime against rugby. They did nothing for the game. It was only the competiveness ond talent on the field that made it interesting.

pucan

toomevara wrote: »

Totally agree, in fact I'm sure I mentioned the commitment of both sides earlier on?..maybe not, anyhoo you're missing the whole point of my contribution to the thread, with respect.

It isnt about SH/NH todger-pulling, I'm all about The ELVs...they're ****e, NOT SH rugby or their obscenely talented/committed/passionate etc...ad nauseum players....think you might have had a quick peruse and gotten the wrong end of the stick...

My response was a scatter-gun response to the jump on the bandwagon "the quality of SH rugby is brutal since they adopted the ELVs" movement which is prevalent here. There were too many posts to individually comment on, I wasn't addressing any particular posts, certainly not your own since you seem to have actually watched quite a few games.
I am going to go out on a limb here, but i'd imagine that quite a number of the people posting on here have not seen anywhere near enough games played under these new rules to make any kind of qualified judgment on them.

pucan

il gatto wrote: »

ELV's on the other hand are a crime against rugby. They did nothing for the game.

Case in point, they are "a crime against rugby"?
All of bthem, there are no redeeming features in the ELVs?

il gatto

The ELVs were brought in en masse, and therefore are being judged as such. Overall, I think they're wrong and unnecessary. If they'd brought in seperate changes in the laws which could be assessed individually, some of the changes might be found to be of benefit. The mass overhaul approach was wrong imo. Maybe the 5m back from the scrum might be good, giving attackers more space? Maybe it just gives the defence more time to see what's in front of them. I really can't tell as I find ELVs games almost unrecognisable from what I've grown up with. The fundementals may be the same, but the whole eb and flow is different.
It's just my opinion, but I'd rather the ELVs just went away.:(

pucan

Thats fair enough, its not the critism of the ELVS i was responding to, hell i agree with some of it. It was the overboard "3-N matches have been rubbish and **** etc." that i was going at.

By the by, you can get $7 on the Aussie Lions to win by 13+ tomorrow

Worrytahs

Aussie to win by 6-10 pts are at 7-1 currently.
Not bad odds at all.

toomevara

Worrytahs wrote: »

Aussie to win by 6-10 pts are at 7-1 currently.
Not bad odds at all.

Hmmm, I don't know, i reckon the AB's will have the answer to the wallabies at the weekend...I reckon it'll be the Blacks by 7 - 10. Think playing the wallabies suits the AB's better...but if I'm wrong (has been known to happen) that's good value

Worrytahs

toomevara wrote: »

Hmmm, I don't know, i reckon the AB's will have the answer to the wallabies at the weekend...I reckon it'll be the Blacks by 7 - 10. Think playing the wallabies suits the AB's better...but if I'm wrong (has been known to happen) that's good value

The way I see it is that most first 'Sloes of the season tend to be 12-6 (or similar scorelines) affairs.
If there's one team in the world who are never phased by the All Blacks, its Aussie. If there's one team who can make the Kiwis think twice, its the Aussies.
Thats the beauty of the Bledisloe Cup. I just love it.

copacetic

todays game is giving me a possible rethink on the new rules, some firsthalf. not much structure, but who cares when you get a game like this?

toomevara

copacetic wrote: »

todays game is giving me a possible rethink on the new rules, some firsthalf. not much structure, but who cares when you get a game like this?

Hmmm..totally disagree..more of the same for me...players superb, amazing skill levels/fitness, but the game is a shambles..I love the aussie take on scrumming..don't take the hit, go to ground...accept the fee kick, and prosper...to all intents and purposes australia now has two superb rugby league teams....

De Deraco

good try from elsom he will it in well with leinster..


the players are all shattered its like watching a J5 cup game.

toomevara

De Deraco wrote: »

good try from elsom he will it in well with leinster..


the players are all shattered its like watching a J5 cup game.

Good point, if he ELV's are to become the norm,I reckon they'll have to introduce an interchange system like we have in League.

jayteecork

Graham Henry will have to go now.

ManofMunster

toomevara wrote: »

Good point, if he ELV's are to become the norm,I reckon they'll have to introduce an interchange system like we have in League.

the kiwis did use an interchange system at scrumhalf!!

as for getting players 5m back from the scrum, getting them 0m back would be a start. that ref today could've (and should've) blown for offside on 20 or 30 occasions.

thought the game was enjoyable but giving freekicks when a player blatantly kills a try-scoring opportunity is a joke. carter played the ball on the ground to kill a good aussie attack. he should've been binned but instead it was just a free-kick and the aussie momentum was lost. ref was poor. let both sides away with too much.

Santa Claus

ManofMunster wrote: »

the kiwis did use an interchange system at scrumhalf!!

Exactly.
Had to laugh at the Jouberts reaction when the 4th official and the touchjudge brought this to his attention, he was just "so what". Clearly he needs to brush up on his blood replacements rules.
I'm sure the Kiwis will argue that Cowans blood injury was inside his knee and so even though you couldn't see the blood they were entitled to bring Ellis back on.

If the Aussies manage to do the unthinkable next week in Eden Park then Henry will surey be gone......I'll certainly be supporting them !

Xavi6

Superb performance from the Aussies. The amount of handling errors from the All Blacks shows the kind of pressure they were under when they got the ball (though admittedly some of those errors were absolute shockers).

I thought Barnes should great maturity with some of his kicks and Burgess really impressed me at the scrum half.

Really looking forward to next week's installment now!

EdgarAllenPoo

I think that may have ben the best game that I've seen played under the ELVS, there was still a lot of aimless kicking though. A very good performance by Australia and Berrick Barnes in particular.

JWAD

GDM wrote: »

I think that may have ben the best game that I've seen played under the ELVS, there was still a lot of aimless kicking though. A very good performance by Australia and Berrick Barnes in particular.

Crap kicking from hand by one side. Not two. Aussie did very well in this facet of today's game and in particular, Giteau.

anonymous_joe

What a cracker of a game.

One of the best matches I've seen lately. Superb performances from some of the Aussies.

toomevara

JWAD wrote: »

Crap kicking from hand by one side. Not two. Aussie did very well in this facet of today's game and in particular, Giteau.

Was superb, thought the Aussie intensity was on another plane to the All Blacks today (how often do we get to say that about any team?)...bugger all possession but never looked like loosing..The Blacks must be kicking themselves having let Deans go...Henry's head close to rolling...Deans seems to have brought alot of belief and steel to the wallabies..must be odds on for the 3n after that game....

jayteecork

Did Deans actually apply for the All-Blacks job after the last World Cup?

It's hard to believe they gave it to Henry again.

Stev_o

Its all about turnovers and NZ without a great 7 failed to win the battle on the floor.

EdgarAllenPoo

jayteecork wrote: »

Did Deans actually apply for the All-Blacks job after the last World Cup?

It's hard to believe they gave it to Henry again.

He didn't get the chance, NZRU never really thought about getting rid of Henry so Deans never got the chance to apply for the job.

JWAD

GDM wrote: »

He didn't get the chance, NZRU never really thought about getting rid of Henry so Deans never got the chance to apply for the job.

Of course he applied for the job :rolleyes:

He took the Wallabies job a week after Ted Henry was announced as All Blacks coach post-RWC one and a half months after the tourny.

toomevara

Debate about the shambolic situation at the breakdown in this years 3N hotting up...something's got to be done imo, its turning the game into a farce...

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/referees-throwing-game-into-chaos-says-dwyer-1442621.html

ManofMunster

it's not often i find myself shouting at a ref to whistle more often, but last saturday was a joke. the breakdown was a free for all. and the off-side law was discarded for most of the 80. quinlan would've loved it

toomevara

The AB's are putting pressure on the ref to well actually ref the scrum...could make a big difference if the letter of the law is actually applied...last weekends aussie refusal to engage or take the hit was a major factor in the AB's defeat!!

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/kiwis-count-on-ref-for-scrum-support-1444283.html

Stev_o

toomevara wrote: »

The AB's are putting pressure on the ref to well actually ref the scrum...could make a big difference if the letter of the law is actually applied...last weekends aussie refusal to engage or take the hit was a major factor in the AB's defeat!!

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/kiwis-count-on-ref-for-scrum-support-1444283.html

Yet they stayed quiet about the breakdown when a certain Mccaw returns for them:rolleyes:

Stev_o

Pretty convincing win for New Zealand today with the best ref iv seen yet since the ELV's were introduced but that said the game was awful would really put anyone off watching rugby with the amount of kicking. Feels like we'v gone back the 80's now with the aimless kicking =(

toomevara

Know its not the tri-nations, but anyone got any gen on tomorrow's SA/Argentina clash?...Are the Boks fielding a full strength outfit,(i.e. taking it seriously) anyone seen an Argentinian team sheet.?Is it under ELV's or will it be proper rugby? Usualiy a really physical enjoyable encounter, could be a good one...

Stev_o

toomevara wrote: »

Know its not the tri-nations, but anyone got any gen on tomorrow's SA/Argentina clash?...Are the Boks fielding a full strength outfit,(i.e. taking it seriously) anyone seen an Argentinian team sheet.?Is it under ELV's or will it be proper rugby? Usualiy a really physical enjoyable encounter, could be a good one...

http://www.skysports.com/rugbyunion/match_preview/0,20244,11069_3038489,00.html

Funny thing is that BBC nor RTE have said anything about the match typical :rolleyes:

Puma's lacking in the backs department but thats a extremely good pack they have selected

toomevara

Stev_o wrote: »

http://www.skysports.com/rugbyunion/match_preview/0,20244,11069_3038489,00.html


Puma's lacking in the backs department but thats a extremely good pack they have selected

Bloody hell, two gargantuan packs, reckon the old tectonic plates gonna get a battering when they scrum down..I'll watch it just to see those front rows going at each other...would agree though, pumas look threadbare outside the halves...

ManofMunster

toomevara wrote: »

Bloody hell, two gargantuan packs, reckon the old tectonic plates gonna get a battering when they scrum down..I'll watch it just to see those front rows going at each other...would agree though, pumas look threadbare outside the halves...

yeah don't fancy the argies but 23 points looks a big spread. would've thought it'd be closer?

toomevara

ManofMunster wrote: »

yeah don't fancy the argies but 23 points looks a big spread. would've thought it'd be closer?

Seems it, would've thought more like 10 - 15.

toomevara

Anyone know why the Bok loose-head Tendai Mtawarira is getting the bird from the home crowd every time he touches the ball? is he regarded as a quota player?

really enjoyable game thus far, Argies giving them a real run for their money...

Inquitus

Was it SA +23 at the bookies before kickoff?

Argies really putting it up to them, much the better side so far

toomevara

Inquitus wrote: »

Was it SA +23 at the bookies before kickoff?

Argies really putting it up to them, much the better side so far

between 20 and 25, on the strength of the first 30 fanciful, but the last 10, the Pumas have lost the plot...

Inquitus

toomevara wrote: »

between 20 and 25, on the strength of the first 30 fanciful, but the last 10, the Pumas have lost the plot...

Aye, the wheels have come off

copacetic

they really don't seem to be able to cope with offloading game from sth africa

toomevara

Backline terribly frail defensively, some real schoolboy errors...dog legs all over the shop...really very little outside Dr. Phil...need the likes of Corleto and Hernandez, and a scrummie to match Pichot would be nice! Gonna be a real long final 20 for the Argies...they've not seen the ball for the last half hour....

Cant believe how easily the Boks are cleaning them out in the scrum...

Stev_o

toomevara wrote: »

Anyone know why the Bok loose-head Tendai Mtawarira is getting the bird from the home crowd every time he touches the ball? is he regarded as a quota player?

really enjoyable game thus far, Argies giving them a real run for their money...

He's not getting boo'ed they are all chanting "Beast"

bleg

argentina completely humiliated. just goes to show they really were one hit wonders in the last world cup.

Stev_o

bleg wrote: »

argentina completely humiliated. just goes to show they really were one hit wonders in the last world cup.

How? These players havent played together since the RWC and that backline has never been seen before so i fail to see your point? SA have also come from 3 3N tests while Argentina has come from two tests with Scotland a two months ago with a completely different squad

toomevara

bleg wrote: »

argentina completely humiliated. just goes to show they really were one hit wonders in the last world cup.

Nah, way wide of the mark...look at it objectively, a scratch puma squad, meeting literally in the car park prior to the game with key players missing, all out of season, meeting the world champions, in form, half way through the tri-nations....no shame in the result...the fact that they were competitive for a half a minor miracle....

[Jackass]

Well I don't know. They shouldn't be playing test rugby if that's the case. I only managed to catch 10 minutes of the game but caught 3 SA tries. (Damn it! Forgot about it then had to go out! looked like a great game from a show boat perspective!)

How did CJ Van D L play anyone?

mikeruurds

[QUOTE='[Jackass]How did CJ Van D L play anyone?[/QUOTE]

He had another great game and managed a few of his usual storming runs. The Argie defence was pretty poor though.

JWAD

[Jackass] wrote: »

Well I don't know. They shouldn't be playing test rugby if that's the case

That Argentinian squad have barely been together and the majority are not even back playing yet. The Bokke have played warm-up tests and some hotly contested Tri Nations tests.