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Comics Comics on Alex Ross

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  • 03-07-2008 4:51pm
    #1
    magwea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 173 ✭✭


    Somebody mentioned that they'd like to see some more Alex Toth style criticism in comics, meet Frank Santoro on Alex Ross' photo referenced art http://comicscomicsmag.blogspot.com/2008/07/craft-in-comics-part-175.html. Hilarity ensues.

    Some juicy quotes for those who don't want to read it all.
    "His original sketches for his pages—which I've seen in person—are lively drawings that capture the energy and action of the figures. I remember thinking then, "Why doesn't he just work those up into full drawings?" Instead, he'll literally dress models up in a costume and take pictures of them dressed as Galactus or Batman. But that's not Galactus, that's some guy standing on a washer and dryer in a basement. How do I know? Cuz Ross and guys like P. Craig Russell love to publish those photos for some reason."
    "I'm not responding to comments on this one. On this subject, I have patience only to be dogmatic."
    "I just saw in an old issue of "alter ego" that alex used kathy ireland as the model for mary marvel. i cant remember the other models or characters, but i remember being amused."
    "I look forward to the days when he sinks to the explicit sexual excess that taints the later days of Wally Wood in the same way that I look forward to the first Jonas Brothers sex scandal."

    The best till last, on the Alex Ross pull-out in the new Kirby biography\artbook "An aside: everyone always says how much they love Kirby, and yet they piss all over his grave any chance they get. The Ross centerfold was a great example of that -- like having Leroy Neiman re-paint Guernica in a Picasso book. It's a combination of hubris, Oedipal art-murder, and just bad painting. I mean, it's worse than the last Kirby coffee table book, which had Kevin Eastman (!) inking Kirby pencils for the cover."

    Discuss.


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    #2
    Patrick Brown
    Registered Users Posts: 96 ✭✭Patrick Brown


    I read this as well, and while I'm not a particular fan of Alex Ross's work, and have some sympathy with the blogger in liking the "drawingness" of drawing, I disagree with his criticisms of Ross for using photo-reference. He seems to think that creating art is a kind of stunt-performance, and using photo reference is cheating. Rubbish. Drawing is about observation. If that observation is done via photos, fine. What matters is the work you produce.

    I also disagree with the idolatry of Kirby. Kirby was a talented artist, but he produced very little truly great work because his efforts were spread too thinly. His main achievement was in creating a lot of characters whose adventures would continue without him, and an art book featuring his characters drawn by others seems to be entirely in keeping with that.


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    #3
    magwea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 173 ✭✭magwea


    Leave the specific merits of Kirby aside for this thread might be a good idea for the mo.
    Patrick Brown wrote: »
    I disagree with his criticisms of Ross for using photo-reference. He seems to think that creating art is a kind of stunt-performance, and using photo reference is cheating.

    There is definitely heavy criticism for what Santaro sees as quasi hack cosplay, and the reliance of bad amateur photography. On the other hand i don't think he is against using photo ref if incorparated into the drawing well, nameing guys like BWS and Buscema as examples of artists that are good at it. There is no mention of cheating.
    Patrick Brown wrote: »
    Rubbish. Drawing is about observation. If that observation is done via photos, fine. What matters is the work you produce.

    Again, i don't think Santoro would diagree with you there either. Santoro actually repeatedly says that Ross has plenty of talent as an artist.

    The way i read it the major issue he has with Alex Ross' style is that the focus is mostly upon rendering indiviual figures while neglecting storytelling and the cartoon simplification and deseign which say Kirby was famous for.


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    #4
    ztoical
    Registered Users Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭ztoical


    Patrick Brown wrote: »
    I disagree with his criticisms of Ross for using photo-reference. He seems to think that creating art is a kind of stunt-performance, and using photo reference is cheating. Rubbish. Drawing is about observation. If that observation is done via photos, fine. What matters is the work you produce.

    +1 Alot of people seem to get confused between tracing and photo reference - plenty of artists hire models to come in and sit for them. If Ross was taking photos and then simple tracing over the photos then yeah I'd prob have an issue with his work but he's using photo reference - reference being the important word there. MoCCA had a gallery show of Ross' work a few years back and I have to say seeing the originals is so different to seeing the printed versions - you can see all the pencil marks and corrections he made and the energy behind his marks and its very obvious while the poses are heavily referenced they ain't traced.


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    #5
    magwea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 173 ✭✭magwea


    Some of my favorite tracers Arthur Ranson, Hal Foster and Leonard Starr.

    Lets hope Dave Sim's Glamourpuss injects some life back into the style.


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    #6
    Patrick Brown
    Registered Users Posts: 96 ✭✭Patrick Brown


    Arthur Ranson's a very good example. His work is all very heavily photo-referenced, but if you think of, for instance, the scene in Button Man where Harry kills Ringo, the way he's composed and sequenced the images is superb comics storytelling.


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    #7
    magwea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 173 ✭✭magwea


    Ranson is a great comic storyteller alright, a great sense of design. I'm a huge fan of his Mirrorworld in 2000AD. As you said, his work is photo referenced but he doesn't just reference he literally traces images using a grant projector.

    More here http://www.2000adreview.co.uk/features/interviews/2004/ranson/ranson3.shtml


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    #8
    Fysh
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,045 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    Can't have a conversation about photoreferencing/tracing artists without mentioning Greg "Captain Pornface" Land! I feel that his blatant use of pornography as reference material for faces and occasional poses have contributed greatly to showing Marvel's Ultimate line for what it really is...

    Anyway, on the subject of Ross I understood the criticism to be not about the notion of photo-reference but about the particular photographs Ross uses. A lot of the poses in the final pieces end up looking very static, and there are a good few cases of characters looking more middle-aged than they should.


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    #9
    magwea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 173 ✭✭magwea


    Fysh wrote: »
    Can't have a conversation about photoreferencing/tracing artists without mentioning Greg "Captain Pornface" Land! I feel that his blatant use of pornography as reference material for faces and occasional poses have contributed greatly to showing Marvel's Ultimate line for what it really is...

    Or the state of Marvel and DC's comics in general. Alex Ross is saintly compared to Greg Land.


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