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Where are all the L plated cars?

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2

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    #32
    Martron
    Registered Users Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭Martron


    NiSmO wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.


    whether your test was in 2 minutes you are still an unacompannied provisional driver. the sooner people get used to the idea that a law is enforced the better.

    and how is the guard to know you are a careful driver? you managed to stop at the checkpoint without skidding out of control?!?!?
    its the law. pass your test and then you can drive <SNIP>!!


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    #33
    craichoe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭craichoe


    Alanstrainor wrote: »
    I'm baffled by your response to be honest. It makes no sense, your insurance company will cover a third party claim if you're involved in an accident, they will pay out. You contradict yourself numerous times, on the one hand you say in your example regarding the NCT, that you are "insured", and then you turn around and say that if you make a claim you wont be insured????
    So just to clarify, if a driver on a learner permit is driving unaccompanied, and they are involved in a collision, they are insured and the insurance company will pay out.

    Well if thats what you want to believe, already verified 8 months ago. Its not a contradiction.

    The law requires you to have an Insurance policy that covers Third Party Only as a minimum. However the insurance company paying out on a claim on that policy is subject to criteria laid out in the policy.

    If you were driving under the influence for example your insurance company will not cover you.

    If this is the case then i suggest the people driving on Driving Permits and Licenses call up their insurance company and get a letter from them stating this. Lets see how many people will get a letter from them stating that:

    They will cover them in the event of a collision even if they were unaccompanied while driving the vehicle.

    Somebody post that online and prove me wrong (of course remove your personal details from it)

    Guarantee not one person will get a letter.

    Having an Insurance policy and being able to claim on that insurance are two different things.


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    #34
    cpoh1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭cpoh1


    Alanstrainor wrote: »
    I'm baffled by your response to be honest. It makes no sense, your insurance company will cover a third party claim if you're involved in an accident, they will pay out. You contradict yourself numerous times, on the one hand you say in your example regarding the NCT, that you are "insured", and then you turn around and say that if you make a claim you wont be insured????
    So just to clarify, if a driver on a learner permit is driving unaccompanied, and they are involved in a collision, they are insured and the insurance company will pay out.

    It all depends on the wording of your insurance certificate. For example if it says that "the above is insured provided they have a current valid driving licence" then if you are driving without an accompanied driver your licence isint valid and the insurance company *might* not pay out since technically you are in breach of your terms of insurance. This rarely happens though, ive only heard of it twice.

    Quinn direct are the only ones who insist on the NCT certificate, nowhere is it mentioned on any of the other insurance companies T&C so its not an issue.


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    #35
    cpoh1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭cpoh1


    craichoe wrote: »
    If you were driving under the influence for example your insurance company will not cover you.

    Total Nonsense


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    #36
    Alanstrainor
    Registered Users Posts: 23,157 ✭✭✭✭Alanstrainor


    Looky what i have here...An Email from Quinn answering said question. It was posted over on Learning to Drive there last week.
    Dear Mr <SNIP>

    Thank you for your e-mail dated: 26th June 2008

    I would like to confirm that yes, you are covered. Going forward we will
    continue to review our policy and will take guidance from the Insurance
    Federation of Ireland. However you should note that the Gardai may still
    prosecute you if you are a provisional licence holder driving
    unaccompanied.

    If there are any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact us.

    Kind Regards
    Clare McCarroll
    Administration Department
    Quinn Direct Insurance
    Phone: 0845 850 0845 UK & NI
    1890 89 1890 ROI


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    #37
    craichoe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭craichoe


    Alanstrainor wrote: »
    Looky what i have here...An Email from Quinn answering said question. It was posted over on Learning to Drive there last week.

    Funny, I'm with Quinn too and they sent me an e-mail as well, i asked for it in writing after 3 requests and i'm still waiting 8 months later.

    *Edit* I have a full license btw :) .. its for another party on the car


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    #38
    Alanstrainor
    Registered Users Posts: 23,157 ✭✭✭✭Alanstrainor


    Just to note.
    I'm not advocating driving unaccompanied, i'm just clarifying the fact that you are insured.


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    #39
    Zube
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,502 ✭✭✭Zube


    craichoe wrote: »
    If you were driving under the influence for example your insurance company will not cover you.

    This is, of course, nonsense, but there is a related issue. If you are driving drunk, your insurance will cover 3rd party claims, but they will not defend you in court. No matter what sort of accident happens, no matter whose fault it is, if you are tested and fail, no insurance company lawyer is going to stand up and argue your case, you lose, the whole claim goes on your policy, and good luck getting insurance after you've served your ban.

    I would similarly be very doubtful that insurance companies will defend unlicensed drivers in court: no license, no L-plate, any accident of any description is going on your record.

    You can, of course, tell your insurance company to go to hell and pay a lawyer yourself, but then you really aren't covered. The insurance will not pay if you ignore their legal advice and try to defend a case on your own.


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    #40
    cpoh1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭cpoh1


    Alanstrainor wrote: »
    Just to note.
    I'm not advocating driving unaccompanied, i'm just clarifying the fact that you are insured.

    Alanstrainor 1 Craichoe 0

    Interestingly anything said to you verbally over the phone or by email/writing is bound by law. If they tell you on the phone or email you thats good enough.


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    #41
    craichoe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭craichoe


    Zube wrote: »
    This is, of course, nonsense, but there is a related issue. If you are driving drunk, your insurance will cover 3rd party claims, but they will not defend you in court. No matter what sort of accident happens, no matter whose fault it is, if you are tested and fail, no insurance company lawyer is going to stand up and argue your case, you lose, the whole claim goes on your policy, and good luck getting insurance after you've served your ban.

    I would similarly be very doubtful that insurance companies will defend unlicensed drivers in court: no license, no L-plate, any accident of any description is going on your record.

    You can, of course, tell your insurance company to go to hell and pay a lawyer yourself, but then you really aren't covered. The insurance will not pay if you ignore their legal advice and try to defend a case on your own.

    Thats exactly it.


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    #42
    Jip
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,418 ✭✭✭Jip


    What's it ? Yet again you're contradicting yourself.


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    #43
    Alanstrainor
    Registered Users Posts: 23,157 ✭✭✭✭Alanstrainor


    Jip wrote: »
    What's it ? Yet again you're contradicting yourself.

    Thought the same myself, zube started off by calling what he was saying nonsense and he comes back and agrees????


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    #44
    Steve
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭Steve


    Zube's correct, the insurance company is obliged by law to cover any 3rd party claim made against a policy (and this is normally the substantial part of any claim).

    Anything else such as 1st party injury or loss / legal fees etc. can be witheld.


    craichoe, can I have one of those little blue pills you took earlier? :D:D:D


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    #45
    craichoe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭craichoe


    SteveC wrote: »
    Zube's correct, the insurance company is obliged by law to cover any 3rd party claim made against a policy (and this is normally the substantial part of any claim).

    Anything else such as 1st party injury or loss / legal fees etc. can be witheld.


    craichoe, can I have one of those little blue pills you took earlier? :D:D:D

    My point being thats exactly it, legal fees can run into the thousands. So on top of potentially writing off your car, your also stuck with whatever the legal fees, court costs, mediation costs etc are too.

    Hence not covered i.e. YOU are not covered.


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    #46
    hellboy99
    Registered Users Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭hellboy99


    craichoe wrote: »
    Technically "Insured in the Eyes of the State'

    Uninsured in the event of a claim.

    +1

    although it can vary with various insurance companies.

    From what I was told a few months back with the upcoming of the new inforced rules, if you are involved in an accident were you not at fault but have no L-Plates, no qualified driver, nct etc... then you may not be able to claim off the other persons insurance as they can class you as uninsured. I may be wrong but that's what I was told and it does make sense.


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    #47
    Jip
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,418 ✭✭✭Jip


    Indeed, you're wrong. For the last time before I'm off to enjoy my weekend, I'm sure others will remain here, you're insured as long as you've disclosed all facts to the insurer, if you have an accident when you're alone and you're a provisional driver, you're insured, if you have an accident and have no NCT, you're insured, if you have an accident and drive into someone while pissed, you're insured. Now the only thing that may differ is the level of cover, but you're still insured.


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    #48
    Alanstrainor
    Registered Users Posts: 23,157 ✭✭✭✭Alanstrainor


    craichoe wrote: »
    Hence not covered i.e. YOU are not covered.

    Did you somehow not read the rest of this thread? Yes your costs might run into the thousands as your insurer may bring to court to reclaim any costs they've incurred, but you are insured!

    EDIT:Misinterpreted your last post. Apologies..., perhaps you should make your post a bit clearer...


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    #49
    Zube
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,502 ✭✭✭Zube


    hellboy99 wrote: »
    From what I was told a few months back with the upcoming of the new inforced rules, if you are involved in an accident were you not at fault but have no L-Plates, no qualified driver, nct etc... then you may not be able to claim off the other persons insurance as they can class you as uninsured.

    Once again: it's not because you are uninsured. Insurance means your crowd will pay people who have claims against you: you are insured and they will pay 3rd parties.

    The issue is that you are not legal on the road, so your insurance company will not be keen to try and defend claims against you in court. This is not as bad as being uninsured and liable for a million bucks in damages, but it's pretty bad if your are in an accident through no fault of your own. If the other party gets a sniff of your L-plate status and pursues a claim, your insurance will just pay up, and screw up your insurance record.


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    #50
    Steve
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭Steve


    Anyone want to join me walking around in a small circle for a while?

    might make more progress than this thread...:D


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    #51
    Steve
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭Steve


    craichoe wrote: »
    My point being thats exactly it, legal fees can run into the thousands. So on top of potentially writing off your car, your also stuck with whatever the legal fees, court costs, mediation costs etc are too.

    Hence not covered i.e. YOU are not covered.

    We're on the same page so.
    Good.:)


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    #52
    CamperMan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭CamperMan


    where have all the learner drivers gone?, since Monday, I have seen very little "L" plates on cars, can it really be that all those learners have stopped driving?.... I don't think so, 2 learner drivers that I know simply removed their "L" plates and continue to drive around breaking the law, I wonder how many other learner drivers have removed their "L" plates :mad:


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    #53
    Mollywolly
    Registered Users Posts: 566 ✭✭✭Mollywolly


    Good question! A few people I know have said that they have no alternative but to take off the L plates because they need their car for work. I do sympathise with them, but they've had time to apply for the test and just not bothered - I suppose because they think they'll get away with it. I'm just glad I'm not in their shoes. Passed my test many moons ago and don't know what I'd do in their place. Not good though.....


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    #54
    AugustusMaximus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,044 ✭✭✭AugustusMaximus


    I have no sympathy for those who

    1. Didn't bother to apply for a test
    2. Those who didn't pass the test. If you fail the test then its deemed you're not qualified to drive on your own.


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    #55
    Firewalkwithme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,066 ✭✭✭Firewalkwithme


    Most of the L plates vanished months back when this legislation was first announced. It's not just since Monday.


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    #56
    Alanstrainor
    Registered Users Posts: 23,157 ✭✭✭✭Alanstrainor


    Here we go again!!:pac::pac::rolleyes:
    BAM


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    #57
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    threads merged


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    #58
    Blut
    Closed Accounts Posts: 388 ✭✭Blut


    Ack, I kind of meant the thread to be simply a discussion of the implementation of the laws - how exactly the gardai are handling it etc. There've been enough pointless 'ITS A GOOD THING' vs 'ITS A BAD THING' threads on it really. Oh well.


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    #59
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    Simply a discussion, you say?

    Good Sir, this IS the motors forum :D:D:D


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    #60
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,712 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    NiSmO wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    1/. No it wasn't personal at all. I'd say the same to anyone in those circumstances.

    2/. I'm not jealous at all :D

    3/. An appointment to do a test (which you may fail?) and taking care mean nothing. You are deliberately breaking the law.


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    #61
    spooky donkey
    Registered Users Posts: 5,042 ✭✭✭spooky donkey


    Now that this law is enforced. Does a provisional driver driving with a fully linenced driver have to be with a fully licenced driver who has their full licence over 2 years.

    I got my full licence 3 months ago. My brother is on a provisional, can he drive with me in the car with him?


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