Is Eamon Ryan's NGN plan any good? Or REALISTIC?

Fran666

Will this happen?
€435m pumped into a nationwide fibre-optic network, with state-owned fibre technology being utilised and broadband made universal by 2010?

Despite all the posturing back and forth I am still unclear as to why the state tells me they can't enable broadband in my area yet a private company tells me they can??

I also heard a story about a guy who was told by Eircom his area couldn't get broadband and when he then threatened to leave Eircom they suddenly told him the exchange had been enabled?!

watty

See http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=60

Some (much?) of that €435m is spent already. It's not all for NGN either.

Fran666

But realistically, what's the next step? Do you believe this will/can happen?

Cabaal

If he means "Broadband" via the likes of 02, Three or Vodafone mobile Broadband covering near 100% of population by 2012 then yes I'd imagine.

However this isn't broadband as its no good for VoIP and the likes of on-line gaming and is generally not actually considered Broadband in other countrys.

100% ADSL availability by pop by 2012 through-out Ireland...not a chance in hell, BT in the UK have a far better rollout then Eircom and their doing it since 2000 and their still only at about 97%-98% of population...its worth noting that speeds of 512K is still counted as Broadband over ADSL in the UK.

So basically the Gov saying 100% pop will have Broadband coverage with speeds equal to the rest of Europe by 2012 is alot of crap and sadly will not happen.

zonEEE

I wish he would get his finger out and update my ****ing exchange ...... so i can get broadband

BigglesMcGee

Or make Eircom delivery quality lines to ALL of their customers. Im on an enabled exchange and cant get BB on it at all. And i only live 6Km from the exchange.

AlmightyCushion

BigglesMcGee wrote: »

Or make Eircom delivery quality lines to ALL of their customers. Im on an enabled exchange and cant get BB on it at all. And i only live 6Km from the exchange.

That's the problem right there. Adsl can only be gotten at most 5KMs from the exchange. So the problem has nothing to do with your line but more to do with the limitations with adsl technology.

lucernarian

Living 6km is not the same as having a line 6km long. And there's other factors besides that weaken a broadband signal as it travels. You could be one of the 5-6% of lines on a pairgain.

Kick up a fuss with eircom, i.e. make a complaint and demand that action be taken about it. Ask them to check if any changes can be made to the line, and don't tell them that your line is 6 km long.

Do any of your neighbour's lines pass for broadband?



AlmightyCushion, that's not accurate. My line, which is 6.5 km long and 78dB attenuation gets an amber pass for broadband. My neighbour further up the road gets a steady 1024/128 on her modem. Though lines over 6.5 km use repeaters I think.

Sponge Bob

Fran666 wrote: »

Will this happen?
€435m pumped into a nationwide fibre-optic network, with state-owned fibre technology being utilised and broadband made universal by 2010?

As the man with the beard sez.

Ho! Ho! Ho !

Eamonn Ryan is not Santa, more like the tooth fairy .

BigglesMcGee

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Living 6km is not the same as having a line 6km long. And there's other factors besides that weaken a broadband signal as it travels. You could be one of the 5-6% of lines on a pairgain.

Kick up a fuss with eircom, i.e. make a complaint and demand that action be taken about it. Ask them to check if any changes can be made to the line, and don't tell them that your line is 6 km long.

Do any of your neighbour's lines pass for broadband?



AlmightyCushion, that's not accurate. My line, which is 6.5 km long and 78dB attenuation gets an amber pass for broadband. My neighbour further up the road gets a steady 1024/128 on her modem. Though lines over 6.5 km use repeaters I think.

Everyone around here gets an amber pass. Then you phone Eircom and they send you out the modem and when you dont get a BB signal you ring their helpdesk. They fiddle about and then arrange for an engineer to come out. He fiddles around and tells you you cant get BB.
Then you send the modem back.

Exact same story for 6 neighbours here who tried to get BB on their phone lines. We can get Ice Broadband but that just makes people suicidal.

lucernarian

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Eamonn Ryan is not Santa, more like the tooth fairy .

More like the toothless fairy in fact.

BigglesMcGee

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

That's the problem right there. Adsl can only be gotten at most 5KMs from the exchange. So the problem has nothing to do with your line but more to do with the limitations with adsl technology.

How does 98% of the population of the UK get it? Can they reach further. Is there a possibility of putting in small exchanges in a box every 3 Kms or something like that.

Sponge Bob

BigglesMcGee wrote: »

Is there a possibility of putting in small exchanges in a box every 3 Kms or something like that.

There is indeed, the DSL boxes can be as small as a biscuit tin and pole mounted.

Lest you had not noticed.

1. eircom do not care, they never did. Otherwise we would not have pairgains all over unlike the UK where they removed them. Most were installed in the SECOND HALF 1990s and designed to cream money from dial up customers at speeds betwen 12k and 19k .

2. they installed the pairgains when they had money, now they are €4bn in debt and care even less about anything bar servicing it .

3. Their debt servicing bill has risen by 1.5% since 2006 , whatever they paid over annually then has gone up by €600m a year and there goes the investment budget lads .

4. However !!!!! They are rolling out a Tetra network because the taxpayer is coughing €250m minimum for it and the NBS is only another schlurp out of the trough as eircom sees it and they can locate more on the masts . They also have a 3g network to roll out next year lest anyone had not noticed .

BigglesMcGee

Sponge Bob wrote: »

There is indeed, the DSL boxes can be as small as a biscuit tin and pole mounted.

Lest you had not noticed.

1. eircom do not care, they never did. Otherwise we would not have pairgains all over unlike the UK where they removed them. Most were installed in the SECOND HALF 1990s and designed to cream money from dial up customers at speeds betwen 12k and 19k .

2. they installed the pairgains when they had money, now they are €4bn in debt and care even less about anything bar servicing it .

3. Their debt servicing bill has risen by 1.5% since 2006 , whatever they paid over annually then has gone up by €600m a year and there goes the investment budget lads .

Perhaps the toothless fairy could make it mandatory that Eircom install these. Even finance them ?

Sponge Bob

BigglesMcGee wrote: »

Perhaps the toothless fairy could make it mandatory that Eircom install these. Even finance them ?

The Toothless Fairy is not allowed to hand out subsidies willy nilly unless , of course, they are for that "wood pellet scam" he subsidises willy nilly .

lucernarian

BigglesMcGee wrote: »

Everyone around here gets an amber pass. Then you phone Eircom and they send you out the modem and when you dont get a BB signal you ring their helpdesk. They fiddle about and then arrange for an engineer to come out. He fiddles around and tells you you cant get BB.
Then you send the modem back.

Exact same story for 6 neighbours here who tried to get BB on their phone lines. We can get Ice Broadband but that just makes people suicidal.

That's the first time I've seen a line which is given a "may be suitable" and the isn't actually a pairgain installed where the order failed. You were very unlucky.

Did he give you a specific reason, or just say that "the line was too poor/long"? Do you know what he did with the line?


I've a feeling that a roadside cabinet is needed for those repeater things, as the attenuation on my neighbour's modem is suspiciously similar to a distance of 4.5 km, which is the distance to the cabinet on the outskirts of Drogheda.

I don't know enough about them other than that they must be in use if a line with actual line attenuation of 80dB gets a modem attenuation of 54dB. Eircom couldn't extend the distance limit to nearly 100 dB attenuation unless there was something else afoot.

BigglesMcGee

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

That's the first time I've seen a line which is given a "may be suitable" and the isn't actually a pairgain installed where the order failed. You were very unlucky.

Did he give you a specific reason, or just say that "the line was too poor/long"? Do you know what he did with the line?


I've a feeling that a roadside cabinet is needed for those repeater things, as the attenuation on my neighbour's modem is suspiciously similar to a distance of 4.5 km, which is the distance to the cabinet on the outskirts of Drogheda.

I don't know enough about them other than that they must be in use if a line with actual line attenuation of 80dB gets a modem attenuation of 54dB. Eircom couldn't extend the distance limit to nearly 100 dB attenuation unless there was something else afoot.

Same story with everyone i know in the area who tried to get BB from eircom. The engineer just told me he couldnt do anything to make the line suitable

lucernarian

Sounds rather lazy of him. You could try to complain to eircom, tell them what happened and mention that this unhelpful linesman gave the same answer to your neighbours without so much as an explanation.

And mention the need for broadband at home and that while ICE aren't as reliable, they will be contacted for an install in the coming days. Something polite but firm to grab their attention anyway.

It beats me why some of these men, who might just have a civil service test to their name, are called "engineers".

watty

The eircom licence was transfered to Meteor this week. (On Comreg site). Makes Meteor more valuable to sell.

DSL
Also with dense multipair (or kinked, stretched etc) as you add more DSL customers, the crosstalk increases and the further out lines will fail and the closer ones go slower.

In Ireland "barely technicians" or simple installers are wrongly called "Engineers".

Mind you a recently arrived Ukrainian, Pole, Romanian Installer might be an engineer that worked in his home town in a real Engineer job for much less money. Of course when they discover how much food, Rent, Electric, phone line rental here is they quickly want real engineering jobs.

lucernarian

Watty's right.

It could happen that the line would pass under attenuation limits but the line will get too much interference from other DSL signals and so the modem won't connect. 6km should get some sort of connection though... Unfortunate.

nohopengn

Just wondering has anyone actually responded to the NGN consultation???
end of September is the deadline......

hellboy99

Why won't the ESB open up their lines ?

everdead.ie

hellboy99 wrote: »

Why won't the ESB open up their lines ?

i think they are the lines we're built for the government so i assume they are government property and will be included.

lmimmfn

nohopengn wrote: »

Just wondering has anyone actually responded to the NGN consultation???
end of September is the deadline......

theres a follow up meeting in october apparently

paulm17781

hellboy99 wrote: »

Why won't the ESB open up their lines ?

I assume you mean the ESB fibre network?

Some of the MANs are connected and UPC and Smart (among others) use the ESB fibre.

bk

hellboy99 wrote: »

Why won't the ESB open up their lines ?

The ESB happily sell their capacity to anyone who wants it.

UPC and Smart already use the ESB network.

Sponge Bob

Eamonn Ryan will pay no attention to anything you say if you reply to the consultation . He will go around talking his usual low grade of crap anyway.

MrVestek

bk wrote: »

The ESB happily sell their capacity to anyone who wants it.

UPC and Smart already use the ESB network.

As do IBB.

nohopengn

hmmm... maybe so... I'm not overly optimistic that Ryan will pay attention - however I still feel oblidged to reply.
The Swedes reckon that by 2013 an absolute minimum of 10Mbps will be required to use 'basic' Internet services.
What are our governments aspirations?? no one knows.

Also where did the €4 billion NGN figure come from? Has anyone actually seen the report? I guarantee you those figures wrong.

For god's sake even the public consultation was incorrect In appendix 1 under the section, available technologies - they didn't include mmw technologies - these were designed to interconnect/extend fibre networks... and to it cost effectively.

I have to respond. Even if it's just so they can be told - 'we told you so'

revolutionary times are ahead

lmimmfn

nohopengn wrote: »

Also where did the €4 billion NGN figure come from? Has anyone actually seen the report? I guarantee you those figures wrong.

I glanced through it there on saturday, dont remember reading 4billion though, 400million was what i remember reading elsewhere, again i just glanced through it

nohopengn

Sorry. The €4 billion I referred to is the cost of an country-wide NGN mentioned by Kevin Thompstone, Shannon development. In the consultation they don't say it costs €4 billion they just refer to the significant costs in laying fibre in rural areas (page 31/32).

As this puported €4 billion was mentioned a few times in the press last year, I am sure that the Dept. have been influenced by these published figures.