Final choices for my new music laptop...

teamdresch

How is a Mac compatibility an issue?
Unless we're talking Logic, obviously.
You can open a PC protools session on a Mac and vice versa.
I'm pretty sure it's the same with most multi-platform DAW software.

white_falcon

Macs - Cost a lot. Limited to what you can do with them. They are a PC, with a "pretty" shell, and a different operating system. Can't be upgraded easily.

PC - Cheaper. Can do anything with them. Far more customisable. Same driver issues as Macs. Can be upgraded very easily.

Just giving facts. When I say you are limited in what you can do with a Mac, I mean if you want to use your system for anything else other than music production - eg. you can't play many games on Macs, the graphics cards on Macs usually arent great.

The sheer price difference in mac vs. PC would and has made me decide on a PC. I've been using a PC for a year now for music production, using reason and cubase among other programs, and its worked fine.

The small problems that some people say they have had with PC's in relation to music production are usually easily overcome, and are negligable when looking at the price, in my opinion.

And also the whole "It just works" argument with macs loses. Have a look at this Mac Fixit Forum to see some of the issues you might get on your mac

Also, just for fun have a read of this interesting article on the PC vs. Mac argument

booooonzo

IMO the problem is people who have macs really love them and there is no convincing them that windows based pc's are every bit as good. I dont know is it because they paid so much for them and have to love them or just they think they look cool saying they use one or because they really do feel mac's are easier/ more stable to work on?

At the end of the day if you make good music on a mac because it makes you feel better, works well for you etc.. then buy it.
If you can do the same on a pc, buy that, its cheaper.

Get yourself some nice S/W or H/W or a holiday with the money you save

Its only a tool at the end of the day.

jtsuited

white_falcon wrote: »

PC - Cheaper. Can do anything with them. Far more customisable. Same driver issues as Macs.

nope. that's wrong.

white_falcon

jtsuited wrote: »

nope. that's wrong.

My mistake - Macs also have drivers issues, as do PCs. They may not be the same...but they are issues all the same

cornbb

I'm a recent Mac convert myself but quibbling over whether Mac is better than PC or vice versa is a waste of time. I remember trying to read up on comparisons of the two platforms on the web and all I found were committed fanboys on either side, its very difficult to find accurate information and unbiased opinions on this topic.

Both will do the job fine, unless you have very specific requirements in mind (e.g. a particular piece of hardware or software you need). Both have advantages, foibles, quirks, perks, bugs, flaws and driver issues, and don't let anyone tell you differently. More importantly, both will get the job done.

seannash

so what did he get.
as for the whole pc mac debate its a bit stupid alrighteither platform can make music but id be very surprised to hear that someone went from pc to mac and regretted it

ICN

Once you go Mac -- You never go back..

jtsuited

seannash wrote: »

id be very surprised to hear that someone went from pc to mac and regretted it

i think this is the crux of the matter. while there are a few that may not like mac and go back to windows, the VAST MAJORITY of people who go mac wouldn't dream of going back.

Dagon

Back again..

I've done a bit of thinking, and asking around at some recording studios I know, and the consensus from the experts is that Mac is the way to go. I was a Mac skeptic like a lot of you PC heads (and I don't like wasting money on something that "looks cool"), but Mac definitely seems to be the best choice for this particular application. I'm also tired of messing around with Windows, and if I buy a new machine I will probably have to format it to remove Vista. I'm interested in learning a new OS, and apart from Ubuntu for work stuff, I think Mac is my choice for music.

As for using PC software, such as games - I intend to use VMWare Fusion to create a Windows VM. I will use that for gaming, etc. I don't really want to partition my drive, so this is probably the best option for me.

I was considering getting a Mac Pro, but they are quite expensive and big - and I'm not a convert yet. But the Macbook Pro will be my first step I think, and if I like it I will try a desktop machine in the future...

Dagon

One other question - I was thinking of getting the apogee duet (for use with logic), but one of the studios I talked to said to avoid it, and get Pro Tools LE system (maybe MBox). Anyone have advice on that?

jtsuited

Dagon wrote: »

One other question - I was thinking of getting the apogee duet (for use with logic), but one of the studios I talked to said to avoid it, and get Pro Tools LE system (maybe MBox). Anyone have advice on that?

that's very odd. considering the amount of people who have gone from the mbox to the duet (myself included).

PaulBrewer

Dagon wrote: »

One other question - I was thinking of getting the apogee duet (for use with logic), but one of the studios I talked to said to avoid it, and get Pro Tools LE system (maybe MBox). Anyone have advice on that?

I think there's little argument for the M Box from a pure sonic point of view.

The M Box is at best passable.

The Duet is a big step up in my opinion. However expectations should be realistic. It is only a sub Euro 400 ish box after all.

jtsuited

PaulBrewer wrote: »

It is only a sub Euro 400 ish box after all.

that sort of perspective is completely and utterly wrong. "Something is bad because it costs this much"?

Ever hear of premium pricing? where companies deliberately price their product well out of reach of the average consumer in order to give it a sort of elitist appeal. It's done all the time, in lots of industries and the audio industry is just the same.

The duet has the same converters and pre's as the ensemble (definitely not a 'sub Euro 400 ish box').

The reason it is sub 400 euro is

1. Everything is software controlled (saving huge amount of money on knob circuitry, production costs etc.)

2. The breakout cable design saves money (while still giving the same quality as physical inputs).

3. The fact that it is only 2 in-2 out (as opposed to the ensemble)

4. The fact that it has DCA's on the output as opposed to VCA's

5. It was developed in conjuction with Apple, who I'm sure were willing to give a bit of cash to a company that was inevitably going to boost their sales of Logic (and hence Apple computers in general). Hence saving the development costs.

But the important bits of the unit - the converters and preamps - are miles above the quality you would expect in what you would call a 'sub 400 euro box'.

PaulBrewer

jtsuited wrote: »

that sort of perspective is completely and utterly wrong. "Something is bad because it costs this much"?

Ever hear of premium pricing? where companies deliberately price their product well out of reach of the average consumer in order to give it a sort of elitist appeal. It's done all the time, in lots of industries and the audio industry is just the same.

The duet has the same converters and pre's as the ensemble (definitely not a 'sub Euro 400 ish box').

The reason it is sub 400 euro is

1. Everything is software controlled (saving huge amount of money on knob circuitry, production costs etc.)

2. The breakout cable design saves money (while still giving the same quality as physical inputs).

3. The fact that it is only 2 in-2 out (as opposed to the ensemble)

4. The fact that it has DCA's on the output as opposed to VCA's

5. It was developed in conjuction with Apple, who I'm sure were willing to give a bit of cash to a company that was inevitably going to boost their sales of Logic (and hence Apple computers in general). Hence saving the development costs.

But the important bits of the unit - the converters and preamps - are miles above the quality you would expect in what you would call a 'sub 400 euro box'.

My point is it's very good, but don't expect it to be fantastic. That's all ... no more , no less.

judas101

jtsuited wrote: »

that sort of perspective is completely and utterly wrong. "Something is bad because it costs this much"?

nail. meet. head.

PaulBrewer

Just to go back on topic for a moment -

Word is there's a new generation of Macbook Pros due before September. I was going to buy a new one yesterday but a lad who knows a lad who goes our with a lad's sister told me to hold off.

It's a rumour, but I think I'll wait for a few weeks.

trackmixstudio

I have the current black macbook and it's great. I got it to replace my 12" powerbook as my go everywhere laptop.
Rumour is that the next macbook will be aluminium and if that is the case I will sell the blackbook and get it. I really miss my old 12" powerbook and the plastic macbook hasn't got the same classiness about it. I have a 15" macbook pro too but it is too bulky to carry around.
But as with all things computer, if you wait for the next update you will never buy anything. My suggestion would be to wait until the new one comes out then check out jigsaw24.com about a week later. They are based in the UK and they buy lots of "old" stock from Apple when they update products. I have bought several macs from them over the years and have always got unbelievable bargains on slightly out of date gear.

ICN

trackmixstudio wrote: »

My suggestion would be to wait until the new one comes out then check out jigsaw24.com about a week later. They are based in the UK and they buy lots of "old" stock from Apple when they update products. I have bought several macs from them over the years and have always got unbelievable bargains on slightly out of date gear.

Well worth a look..

dav nagle

justified wrote: »

i think this is the crux of the matter. while there are a few that may not like mac and go back to windows, the VAST MAJORITY of people who go mac wouldn't dream of going back.

Yes I agree. I was an avid p.c. user but kept running out of memory or plug in power etc and I kept getting the infamous blue screen of death . My p.c. at the time was in consistent with it's performance all the time and eventually I lived on milk and sugar in Jan 2007 and saved up and bought a mac pro.

I will never look back, performance, reliability, stability is consistent and my mac can handle a huge amount of processing for plug ins. I rarely if in fact never have to bus plug ins IN pro tools and especially logic...

I also have Reason 4 , Microsoft office 2008, msn messenger, toast, switch, and and I miss nothing on the p.c. but whatever floats your boat they both do a good job.

PaulBrewer

trackmixstudio wrote: »

I have the current black macbook and it's great. I got it to replace my 12" powerbook as my go everywhere laptop.
Rumour is that the next macbook will be aluminium and if that is the case I will sell the blackbook and get it. I really miss my old 12" powerbook and the plastic macbook hasn't got the same classiness about it. I have a 15" macbook pro too but it is too bulky to carry around.
But as with all things computer, if you wait for the next update you will never buy anything. My suggestion would be to wait until the new one comes out then check out jigsaw24.com about a week later. They are based in the UK and they buy lots of "old" stock from Apple when they update products. I have bought several macs from them over the years and have always got unbelievable bargains on slightly out of date gear.

I fell for the 17 inch Powerbook Dream ...... hence bad posture and a lean to one side .... I'm luggin' the bleedin thing around for the last few years so a change is inevitable, what with a hole worn into the trackpad, a few screws lost (mostly the computer) and fans crunching like a chainsaw through a log.

JJV

trackmixstudio wrote: »

My suggestion would be to wait until the new one comes out then check out jigsaw24.com about a week later. They are based in the UK and they buy lots of "old" stock from Apple when they update products. I have bought several macs from them over the years and have always got unbelievable bargains on slightly out of date gear.

Good advice. I've just bought a new Mac Pro from Jigsaw. It is one of the previous 2.66 quad core models & was seriously discounted. I couldn't justify the expense of a new 8 core model. It was delivered in 2 days from the UK.:)

PaulBrewer

JJV wrote: »

Good advice. I've just bought a new Mac Pro from Jigsaw. It is one of the previous 2.66 quad core models & was seriously discounted. I couldn't justify the expense of a new 8 core model. It was delivered in 2 days from the UK.:)

Welcome back, Good Holliers?

JJV

Smashing thanks. Your sources are on the ball - the rumour sites are full of speculation about new Mac Books & Mac Book Pros due imminently.

Or you could save your back, buy an iPhone & this softwase.

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/07/15/intua-beatmaker-arrives-for-iphonetouch-sequencer-sampled-drum-pads/#more-3642

Then you could write some "slammin' beatz" while chatting to your mates, e-mailing, getting directions & taking pictures of yourself - Logic Shmlogic!

Dagon

Hi guys,

Thanks again for all the good advice..

I ended up getting a Macbook Pro 2.4ghz, with 4gigs of RAM for a really good price!

I was considering waiting around for the new batch of Macbook pros to come out, but from what I've heard they are going to wait until the end of September (after they've sold off all the current models to new students) and apparently the actualy hardware specs won't be very different. Although it will look different, but I'm not really concerned about that. I'm tired of waiting around and want to get cracking on the demo I'm doing, so I just went for it. I reckon this spec machine will keep me going for a while...

Now I have to shell out tons more cash for all the software I'll need! Where can I get Logic at a decent price? I've seen them on ebay for around €280 (from the US).

Also, can anybody recommend a good external FireWire or USB drive at 7200rpm?

cornbb

Dagon wrote: »

Hi guys,

Thanks again for all the good advice..

I ended up getting a Macbook Pro 2.4ghz, with 4gigs of RAM for a really good price!

Good choice! (that's the same spec as my machine )

I was considering waiting around for the new batch of Macbook pros to come out, but from what I've heard they are going to wait until the end of September (after they've sold off all the current models to new students) and apparently the actualy hardware specs won't be very different. Although it will look different, but I'm not really concerned about that. I'm tired of waiting around and want to get cracking on the demo I'm doing, so I just went for it. I reckon this spec machine will keep me going for a while...

I think you did the right thing. The first batch of any new model will always have glitches and early adapters for new Apple machines often have many complaints. You can be reasonably confident that you have a stable, well-established machine that will last you a long time.

Also, can anybody recommend a good external FireWire or USB drive at 7200rpm?

I've been using one of these fellas and I'm happy with it: http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=337192

Dagon

Cool, thanks for the link. 750 gigs eh? Even with music recording, that should provide plenty of space

cornbb

Dagon wrote: »

Cool, thanks for the link. 750 gigs eh? Even with music recording, that should provide plenty of space

You'd think that, only there seems to be a phenomenon with technology that dictates that no matter how much storage you have, it will always be filled up :pac: Especially if you use Time Machine (which you should).

Dagon

Yeah, I'm considering using time machine so long as it doesn't affect performance.

You see, I'm coming from a Windows background and, well... I'm pretty much afraid of using pretty much *anything* that isn't 100% necessary because of the possible performance / stability impact. I'm hoping things will be a little different on the Mac, and I can just use these various cool apps in the background, and not be afraid of the system crawling, grinding to a halt, then crashing...!

Also, it would be cool to have bootcamp installed on a partition on the external hard drive, as 200GB is pretty small for the internal.

cornbb

Dagon wrote: »

Yeah, I'm considering using time machine so long as it doesn't affect performance.

You see, I'm coming from a Windows background and, well... I'm pretty much afraid of using pretty much *anything* that isn't 100% necessary because of the possible performance / stability impact. I'm hoping things will be a little different on the Mac, and I can just use these various cool apps in the background, and not be afraid of the system crawling, grinding to a halt, then crashing...!

Also, it would be cool to have bootcamp installed on a partition on the external hard drive, as 200GB is pretty small for the internal.

You can switch Time Machine on and off as you please. I posted a guide to optimising machines (Win and Mac) in one of the stickies. But in general Macs are way easier to keep running smoothly than Windows.