Automatic 'towed' - What damage to expect?

Jonty

How did your man know the alignment was off??

BeardyGit

richardsheil wrote: »

Thus proving Darragh to be correct. No damage to gearbox.
as he stated.

Top marks for Darragh for using his cop on.

Richard

Good grief. Darragh gave his opinion on the matter, and to be honest, could just as easily have been wrong. Just as easily.

Anyway, job done. Let's all move on.

BeardyGit

Jonty wrote: »

How did your man know the alignment was off??

It was so far out, you could see it as you approached the car. I kid you not.

Esel

vibe666 wrote: »

I'm sure you'd rather him find out while he's test driving it along a motorway at 60-70mph....

This is a completely uncalled for comment, imo.

Anyway, I blame RobbieMc for causing this spat. He excavated a two month-old thread!

Darragh29

Gil_Dub wrote: »

Good grief. Darragh gave his opinion on the matter, and to be honest, could just as easily have been wrong. Just as easily.

Anyway, job done. Let's all move on.

I could have been, but your friend would have been no worse off. I don't know why people won't accept this, but the only cost effective way to test an automatic gearbox for functionality is to test drive the vehicle.

You won't see any problems on the outside so your wasting your money getting someone to look at it, the problem will occur in the hydraulic solenoid seals inside the gearbox also also possibly within the torque converter, where hydraulic oil cannot be directed along the appropriate paths within the transmission because the seals that control the flow of oil are busted. It's like an aortic aneurysm occuring in your transmission, for anyone out there with medical knowledge...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aortic_aneurysm

Dirk Gently

Gil_Dub wrote: »

A work colleagues car ran out of petrol just off the M50/N11 on Wednesday. He walked the few hundred meters to work. When he went back to get it going with a gerrycan at lunchtime, the car had been 'towed' using a winch onto a tilt and slide flatbed truck. This was at the request of the Gardaí apparently, as it was reported to be causing an obstruction by a local resident.

Dolly wheels aren't standard equipment carried on tilt and slide recovery trucks. Was it put on the spec lift or the bed? If there wasn't a car already on the bed it could have been jacked up and put on skids to winch it onto the bed. Again, not all trucks would have skids but generally most would have some kind of dish in a compartment to do this. If the bed wasn't an option and the gardai ordered the driver to remove the vehicle then he would have little choice but to move it by any means he could, reversing and grabbing it with his spec. Your friend made an error waiting until lunch time to go back to the vehicle. He should have gone straight back or else reported it to his breakdown assistance and informed them it was an automatic which needed to be lifted not towed. Fuel would either have been brought out or else the car lifted to a petrol station.

Towing an automatic is a no no but under the instruction of the gardai and in the absence of the owner, a note or a contact number the recovery driver might not have had a choice. I don't know the details of what happened or how much of an obstruction it was but the Garda may have given the driver no choice. Anyway, with out speculating too much the moral of the story is to leave a contact phone number clearly visible on the window. It's possible the recovery driver was irresponsible but it's equally possible he done it against his will under the instruction of a garda.

You asked about the recovery company involved....

Judging by the recovery company involved I'd be leaning towards garda instructions rather than negligence tbh. They're one of the better agents around. Believe it or not they actually train other agents recovery operators in health / safety / recovery techniques. We sent some of our own lads down to them a while ago for training. Again I could be wrong and the recovery driver might be totally responsible but I'd investigate more before putting all the blame on him. Try find out which garda told him to lift it and if the Garda gave him any choice in the matter.

Esel

^ Surely the Garda cannot 'force' the recovery driver to remove the car?

BeardyGit

esel wrote: »

^ Surely the Garda cannot 'force' the recovery driver to remove the car?

There's no need. The recovery company have a contract with the Gardaí, and would therefore simply be complying with their customers wishes, and under a certain blanket protection in so far as they're operating under the insruction of a member of An Garda Siochána.

Darragh29

Gil_Dub wrote: »

There's no need. The recovery company have a contract with the Gardaí, and would therefore simply be complying with their customers wishes, and under a certain blanket protection in so far as they're operating under the insruction of a member of An Garda Siochána.

The contract is awarded on the basis of:

(A) Being competent in the recovery of a vehicle, and...

(B) Having the necessary equipment to safely and efficiently recover a wide variety of vehicles.

They are under no protection whatsoever, they are not Gardai. Unfortunately a number of them are under an illusion that they are Gardai and if you challenge them verbally, you will notice how quickly they will fob you off to the Gardai. If your car is damaged when it is being recovered on the instructions of the Gardai, the recovery company is fully liable for the damages done to your vehicle.

Dirk Gently

esel wrote: »

^ Surely the Garda cannot 'force' the recovery driver to remove the car?

That's exactly what they can do. The company involved is AFAIK contracted to operate the M50 and keep it clear. Another company deals with stolen / burnt out / tax insurance stuff or anything to do with the Gardai. Generally when the Gardai tell them to lift something it must be done straight away and as quickly as possible. Some trucks even get escorts to a crash scene or a car causing an obstruction. The emphasis is on speed and clearing the road. It's not the same as a normal breakdown. I think 20 minutes is the time the gardai allow you from receiving the call to getting on scene. They don't want to know about how it's lifted, just that it must be lifted ASAP. We don't do the Garda work but sometimes our drivers might get flagged down and told to lift something off the road. We carry dollys but they take time to set up and do the job right. 9 times out of 10 the garda will tell the driver to stop fluting about and just drag it up.

Darragh29

Detention of vehicles.

41.—(1) The Minister may, after consultation with the Minister for Justice, make regulations authorising and providing for the detention, removal, storage and subsequent release or disposal of a mechanically propelled vehicle in use in a public place where—


( a ) the person driving the vehicle refuses or fails to produce there and then a driving licence then having effect and licensing him to drive the vehicle, when production of such a licence is demanded of him by a member of the Garda Síochána under section 40 (1) of the Principal Act and the member is of opinion that the person is by reason of his age ineligible to hold a driving licence licensing him to drive the vehicle,


( b ) the vehicle is or a member of the Garda Síochána reasonably believes it to be registered in the State and the member is of opinion that the vehicle is being so used in contravention of section 56 (1) of the Principal Act, or


( c ) a member of the Garda Síochána is of opinion that any excise duty payable under section 1 of the Finance (Excise Duties) (Vehicles) Act, 1952 , in respect of the vehicle, being a vehicle which is or which the member reasonably believes to be registered in the State, has not been paid in respect of a continuous period of 3 months or more immediately prior to such use.


(2) Regulations under this section may, in particular and without prejudice to the generality of subsection (1)—


( a ) authorise and provide for the recovery by such persons or classes of persons as may be specified in the regulations from the owners of vehicles detained, removed, stored, released or disposed of, of charges in accordance with a prescribed scale, in respect of such detention, removal, storage, release or disposal and for the disposal of moneys received in respect of such charges,


( b ) provide for the waiver or deferral of such charges in such circumstances as may be specified in the regulations,


( c ) provide for the release, by or on behalf of persons referred to in paragraph ( a ), of vehicles detained, removed or stored to such persons and upon such conditions as may be specified in the regulations,


( d ) authorise and provide for the sale (or the disposal otherwise than by sale), by or on behalf of persons referred to in paragraph ( a ) of vehicles detained, removed or stored and provide for the disposal of moneys received in respect of such sale or other disposal.


(3) Notwithstanding any other provisions of this section, a vehicle shall not be disposed of thereunder before the expiration of a period of 6 weeks from the date of its detention or 2 weeks after notice of the intended disposal has been given in the prescribed manner, whichever is the longer.


(4) A person who obstructs or impedes, or assists another person to obstruct or impede, a member of the Garda Síochána in the performance of his duties under this section shall be guilty of an offence.


(5) No action shall lie in respect of anything done in good faith and without negligence in the course of the detention, removal, storage, release or disposal of a vehicle under this section.

Dirk Gently

part 4.

Darragh29

clown bag wrote: »

part 4.

I think you're missing the finer point here. I've looked up all the RTA legislation in recent years and as per the above extract, there are only certain specific circumstances under which a Garda can remove your vehicle or instruct someone else to remove your vehicle and it being broken down by the side of the road isn't cited in any legislation I can find as being a reason why your car can be removed without your authorisation.

I recently posted a thread on this very topic of recovery of vehicles at the side of the road by recovery agents where lets just say the issue of being instructed to do so by a Garda was very much open to question, and unfortunately the thead I started was promptly closed by a mod here on this forum.

Can anyone find a basis in legislation that allows a Garda to remove your car from the side of the road???

Dirk Gently

I think maybe you have a dispute with the Gardai more so than the recovery agent so, maybe a justifiable dispute, I don't know to be honest.
Neither of us know the circumstances of this particular incident. If a car is causing an obstruction, especially on a main artery where it could potentially cause problems then they generally want it lifted right away. If this recovery agent was under no pressure and had the time to take all the precautions and didn't, then he is definitely responsible. If however he was ordered to lift it in the interests of public safety and the Garda gave him no choice as to how to lift it then there's nothing he can do about it.

Whether that's right or wrong it's not the recovery operators decision, he must comply with the Garda. I would imagine there would have to be a level of power given to the Garda to make that decision though if he felt it was in the best interests of the safety of other road users. The only people who can answer the question in this incident is the recovery operator and the garda involved, that's why I recommended speaking with the Garda to find out his level of involvement in the recovery.

Darragh29

clown bag wrote: »

I think maybe you have a dispute with the Gardai more so than the recovery agent so, maybe a justifiable dispute, I don't know to be honest.
Neither of us know the circumstances of this particular incident. If a car is causing an obstruction, especially on a main artery where it could potentially cause problems then they generally want it lifted right away. If this recovery agent was under no pressure and had the time to take all the precautions and didn't, then he is definitely responsible. If however he was ordered to lift it in the interests of public safety and the Garda gave him no choice as to how to lift it then there's nothing he can do about it.

Whether that's right or wrong it's not the recovery operators decision, he must comply with the Garda. I would imagine there would have to be a level of power given to the Garda to make that decision though if he felt it was in the best interests of the safety of other road users. The only people who can answer the question in this incident is the recovery operator and the garda involved, that's why I recommended speaking with the Garda to find out his level of involvement in the recovery.

It's the recovery agent who is responsible because he did the damage. A Garda has no authority whatsoever to order or instruct anyone to move a privately owned car from a public place, unless one of the following conditions cn be satisfied:

( a ) the person driving the vehicle refuses or fails to produce there and then a driving licence then having effect and licensing him to drive the vehicle, when production of such a licence is demanded of him by a member of the Garda Síochána under section 40 (1) of the Principal Act and the member is of opinion that the person is by reason of his age ineligible to hold a driving licence licensing him to drive the vehicle,


( b ) the vehicle is or a member of the Garda Síochána reasonably believes it to be registered in the State and the member is of opinion that the vehicle is being so used in contravention of section 56 (1) of the Principal Act, or


( c ) a member of the Garda Síochána is of opinion that any excise duty payable under section 1 of the Finance (Excise Duties) (Vehicles) Act, 1952 , in respect of the vehicle, being a vehicle which is or which the member reasonably believes to be registered in the State, has not been paid in respect of a continuous period of 3 months or more immediately prior to such use.

Basically if you have your car taxed and you have your licence on you and you are insured, they have no basis in law for interfering with your property.

VH

Gil_Dub wrote: »

Good grief. Darragh gave his opinion on the matter, and to be honest, could just as easily have been wrong. Just as easily..

yeah, but he wasn't wrong - he has experience in the field, gave his professional opinion, and was right - maybe a bit of credit is due to the man?

Dirk Gently

Darragh29 wrote: »

It's the recovery agent who is responsible because he did the damage. A Garda has no authority whatsoever to order or instruct anyone to move a privately owned car from a public place, unless one of the following conditions cn be satisfied:

I don't have a legal background and we are not contracted to do these Garda recoveries so I'm open to you being correct. You may very well be right. You could also be wrong and the Gardai could actually have the power to remove any vehicle they feel is likely to cause an accident or obstruct emergency vehicles reaching the scene of an accident. It's a mute point really though in respect to a recovery operator being ordered to do so by a Garda. He has no choice but to do as the Garda says, if what the Garda tells him to do is not legal then it's a matter for that Garda to explain his decision.

Picture this though. The recovery operator, under instruction from the Garda refuses to lift the vehicle. He loses his job, his company loses the contract. An accident happens because of that car not being moved and the recovery operator is now responsible for injuries or death. He has no choice but to follow the instruction of the Garda. If as you say the Gardai instruction is in contradiction with another law (or lack of law covering an area) then that must be a matter for the Garda to justify.

Have you tried asking the Gardai directly your questions? Maybe they could e-mail you any legislation which overrides your quoted legislation which states they can not touch the car. I would be surprised if there wasn't a public saftey issue allowing them to do so. Anyway, it's not something I deal with, except to say any incidents our drivers are involved in by way of being flagged down, the Garda gives the orders and we are obliged to follow them.

Darragh29

clown bag wrote: »

I don't have a legal background and we are not contracted to do these Garda recoveries so I'm open to you being correct. You may very well be right. You could also be wrong and the Gardai could actually have the power to remove any vehicle they feel is likely to cause an accident or obstruct emergency vehicles reaching the scene of an accident. It's a mute point really though in respect to a recovery operator being ordered to do so by a Garda. He has no choice but to do as the Garda says, if what the Garda tells him to do is not legal then it's a matter for that Garda to explain his decision.

Picture this though. The recovery operator, under instruction from the Garda refuses to lift the vehicle. He loses his job, his company loses the contract. An accident happens because of that car not being moved and the recovery operator is now responsible for injuries or death. He has no choice but to follow the instruction of the Garda. If as you say the Gardai instruction is in contradiction with another law (or lack of law covering an area) then that must be a matter for the Garda to justify.

Have you tried asking the Gardai directly your questions? Maybe they could e-mail you any legislation which overrides your quoted legislation which states they can not touch the car. I would be surprised if there wasn't a public saftey issue allowing them to do so. Anyway, it's not something I deal with, except to say any incidents our drivers are involved in by way of being flagged down, the Garda gives the orders and we are obliged to follow them.

Ah I'm not out to split hairs with you on it. I just think it should be more transparent the way the whole recovery from the side of the road thing is being operated at the moment. I know of one situation that I can't speak too much about at the moment because last time I did the thread was locked, but outside of the Dublin area, I know of one recovery operator who I would consider has a relationship with the Gardai that is far too cosy...

You can't have a situation where your car is at the side of the road and you go off to get it sorted and next thing you know the steering rack is hanging out of your car, the cost of having that sorted is a 4 digit figure, and nobody is responsible!

Dirk Gently

Darragh29 wrote: »

I know of one recovery operator who I would consider has a relationship with the Gardai that is far too cosy...

Without going into detail, I know exactly who your talking about and you're right, it is a very cosy relationship. I wouldn't fancy trying to pursue a claim against them even if they took a sledge hammer to my car and lifted it with a jcb.

Anyway, if you get confirmation regarding the lifting of vehicles let me know, it's an interesting point. In the mean time I don't think any of our lads will be refusing to carry out their instructions tbh.

Darragh29

clown bag wrote: »

Without going into detail, I know exactly who your talking about and you're right, it is a very cosy relationship. I wouldn't fancy trying to pursue a claim against them even if they took a sledge hammer to my car and lifted it with a jcb.

Anyway, if you get confirmation regarding the lifting of vehicles let me know, it's an interesting point. In the mean time I don't think any of our lads will be refusing to carry out their instructions tbh.

I'll be posting a video up here in the near future that will show you what happens when transparency goes out the window... You'd be amazed what some people will do when given the opportunity. I tried to start a discussion on this recently on this forum and I was locked down before a discussion even got started and told to leave it until I had some evidence of what I had said I became aware of, which I will have very soon...

vibe666

VH wrote: »

yeah, but he wasn't wrong - he has experience in the field, gave his professional opinion, and was right - maybe a bit of credit is due to the man?

yes he was right about the gearbox and I have no problem admitting that, and I'm happy to apologise for going over the top on that point in particular, but my main point was that driving a car that's obviously been damaged by being mishandled during it's recovery is not the right way to find out what else might be wrong with it and I still stand by that.

As the OP says though it's all sorted now and more or less repaired apart from some damage to the underside which most likely (hopefully) won't be visible unless someone's looking for it.

so apologies again to Darragh on the gearbox thing, it's all water under the bridge now anyway.

I'm interested in that video anyway, sounds like it might be very interesting. I wonder if you'll be able to get it out there before the thread police get to it.

but lessons learnt all round. keep a notepad and pen in your glove box, you never know when you might need it. if you're feeling like being prepared you might also want to consider maybe even a disposable camera too if you don't have a decent camera phone.

Darragh29

vibe666 wrote: »

yes he was right about the gearbox and I have no problem admitting that, and I'm happy to apologise for going over the top on that point in particular, but my main point was that driving a car that's obviously been damaged by being mishandled during it's recovery is not the right way to find out what else might be wrong with it and I still stand by that.

As the OP says though it's all sorted now and more or less repaired apart from some damage to the underside which most likely (hopefully) won't be visible unless someone's looking for it.

so apologies again to Darragh on the gearbox thing, it's all water under the bridge now anyway.

I'm interested in that video anyway, sounds like it might be very interesting. I wonder if you'll be able to get it out there before the thread police get to it.

but lessons learnt all round. keep a notepad and pen in your glove box, you never know when you might need it. if you're feeling like being prepared you might also want to consider maybe even a disposable camera too if you don't have a decent camera phone.

I think you might have misunderstood what I said when I said the car should be driven to investigate whether or not the transmission was damaged. I didn't mean drive the car straight down the M1 for half an hour, I meant literally get into the car and see if Neutral, Park, Drive & Reverse can be selected and can the car be moved 1 metre forward and 1 metre in reverse, basically check for functionality and observe any selection issues that might be there or any propulsion problems that might exist. If no problems were apparent, then drive it a bit more under controlled conditions like in a forecourt or yard to check for consistency. Then if all is ok, go out for a spin in it This was all I was suggesting, I might have jumped the gun a bit here asuming that this is the aproach a mechanic will use always for transmission problems, I might not have made it clear here what I was actually suggesting, while at the same time suspecting that the transmission was not really going to be a problem with this car.

You're lucky fuel lines or brake pipes were not damaged by the car being shunted around with a forklift. I hope you get your solicitor onto the recovery crowd, there is only one word for what they've done here and that's incompetence. You won't get anywhere with them unless you do two things:

(1) Get onto your solicitor and tell the recovery crowd through your solicitor that you will be taking them to court for the damage to your vehicle...

and...

(2) Get onto the Garda Ombudsman's office and lodge a complaint against the Garda who instructed the recovery crowd to interfere with your car.

Unfortunately you'll have to do both of the above because I've seen it before where recovery people resort to bullying people and shouting and roaring abuse at people and also where there is a Garda involved, you'll be fobbed off to a Garda and then the Garda will fobb you off back to the recovery crowd and you'll be so p*ssed off with the both of them you'll just pay for the damage yourself.

The bill in this case is going to be well over a grand, all I'll say is that I wouldn't be paying it if I was in the OP's position...

If the car is obstructing the road, even the hard shoulder it can be removed?

Darragh29

ronoc wrote: »

If the car is obstructing the road, even the hard shoulder it can be removed?

Apparently not. If anyone has any more info on this from a legislative basis, please correct me here, maybe a Garda but from what I've posted on this thread that I got from the Irish statute book on the internet, your car would have to be untaxed, uninsured or you would have to be driving without a valid licence for a Garda to have powers to remove your car... I got this from the Road Traffic Act, 1994 and I've checked more recent changes to the RTA but I can't find any provision that allows a Garda to remove your car from a public place in this manner. Even if such a provision did exist, it would probably set out what the situation is for a vehicle that is damaged in the process of removing it, but for the moment, it looks to me like your car is illegally being witheld from you if it is moved by a recovery specialist on the instructions of a Garda. If this is true, then you don't have to pay a recovery specialist anything when they put their hand out for 200 odd Euro when you go to take your car back and they say you are not getting your car back until you do pay it. If there is no legislative basis for this, and I can't find any, then a lot of people have been screwed.

Even if there was a legal basis for this, it still doesn't give an incompetent recovery specialist the right to fu*k up your car to the tune of over 1000 Euro because they didn't bother looking inside the car to see if it was an automatic...

jetfiremuck

Automatic trans basics 101. 1. Hydraulic pressure is generated by the pump in the trans driven by the engine when it is running through the torque converter housing engaging the pump. The valve body only directs the fluid to the necessary functions using solenoids or valves. The reason towing is not recommended is that no lubrication is provided with the engine not running thereby generating heat through friction. The clutches, brake bands are the wet type. With Park selected a mechanical lever engages a pawl and is used to hold a car while stationary and not to be towed in park.

maidhc

Darragh29 wrote: »

Apparently not. If anyone has any more info on this from a legislative basis, please correct me here, maybe a Garda but from what I've posted on this thread that I got from the Irish statute book on the internet, your car would have to be untaxed, uninsured or you would have to be driving without a valid licence for a Garda to have powers to remove your car... I got this from the Road Traffic Act, 1994 and I've checked more recent changes to the RTA but I can't find any provision that allows a Garda to remove your car from a public place in this manner. Even if such a provision did exist, it would probably set out what the situation is for a vehicle that is damaged in the process of removing it, but for the moment, it looks to me like your car is illegally being witheld from you if it is moved by a recovery specialist on the instructions of a Garda. If this is true, then you don't have to pay a recovery specialist anything when they put their hand out for 200 odd Euro when you go to take your car back and they say you are not getting your car back until you do pay it. If there is no legislative basis for this, and I can't find any, then a lot of people have been screwed.

Even if there was a legal basis for this, it still doesn't give an incompetent recovery specialist the right to fu*k up your car to the tune of over 1000 Euro because they didn't bother looking inside the car to see if it was an automatic...

http://www.bailii.org/ie/cases/IEHC/2005/H420.html

This case outlines some of the law in the area.

Darragh29

S.I. No. 91/1983:
ROAD TRAFFIC (REMOVAL, STORAGE AND DISPOSAL OF VEHICLES) REGULATIONS, 1983.

The Minister for the Environment in exercise of the powers conferred on him by section 5 of the Road Traffic Act, 1961 (No. 24 of 1961) and section 97 of the said Act, as substituted by section 63 of the Road Traffic Act, 1968 (No. 25 of 1968), hereby makes the following Regulations:—


PART I. Preliminary and General.


1. These Regulations may be cited as the Road Traffic (Removal, Storage and Disposal of Vehicles) Regulations, 1983.


2. These Regulations shall come into operation on the 1st day of May, 1983.


3. The Road Traffic (Removal, Storage and Disposal of Vehicles) Regulations, 1971 ( S.I. No. 5 of 1971 ) and the Road Traffic (Removal, Storage and Disposal of Vehicles) (Amendment) Regulations, 1977 ( S.I. No. 95 of 1977 ) are hereby revoked.


4. (1) In these Regulations:


"the Act" means the Road Traffic Act, 1961 ;


"car park" means a car park provided under section 101 of the Act;


"the Commissioner" means the Commissioner of the Garda Síochána;


"day" means any period of 24 hours;


"unlawfully parked" means parked in contravention of the Act, or of a regulation, bye-law or rule thereunder;


(2) In these Regulations a reference to a vehicle which has been abandoned shall be construed as including a reference to a vehicle which appears to have been abandoned.


PART II. Removal and Storage of Abandoned Vehicles.


5. (1) A vehicle which has been abandoned on a public road or in a car park may be removed by or on the authority of a road authority.


(2) Where an officer or an Inspector of the Garda Síochána requests a road authority to remove an abandoned vehicle, the road authority shall comply with such request.


(3) A road authority may take such steps, including the making of an arrangement with any person, as they think fit, for the removal of an abandoned vehicle in a particular case or generally, and for the storage of a vehicle so removed.


PART III. Removal and Storage of Unlawfully Parked Vehicles.


6. (1) An unlawfully parked vehicle may be removed by or on the authority of


( a ) an officer or a member of the Garda Síochána, or


( b ) where a road authority, after consultation with the Commissioner have appointed persons for that purpose, a person so appointed,


and for that purpose such officer or member or person may take such steps, including the making of an arrangement with any other person as he may think fit for the removal of such vehicle, and, in the event of storage of a vehicle, for the storage of a vehicle so removed.


(2) Removal of an unlawfully parked vehicle under this article may be made to any convenient place, including a place of storage, and includes removal first to a place not being a place of storage and thence to a place of storage.


PART IV. Removal and Storage Charges.


7. (1) Where a vehicle has been removed, or both removed and stored, in accordance with the provisions of these Regulations, there shall be paid by the owner of the vehicle to the road authority or to the Commissioner, as the case may be, a removal charge, or both removal and storage charges, as follows:—


( a ) for the removal of the vehicle — £20;


( b ) for the storage of the vehicle — £2 for each day or part of a day during which the vehicle is stored.


(2) Subject to the provisions of paragraph (3) of this article, a vehicle which has been both removed and stored under these Regulations shall not be released until the person claiming the vehicle produces satisfactory evidence that he is the owner of the vehicle or is authorised by the owner to claim the vehicle and the charges due for the removal and storage of the vehicle have been paid in accordance with the provisions of paragraph (1) of this article.


(3) Where the owner of a vehicle which has been removed, or both removed and stored, in accordance with the provisions of these Regulations shows to the satisfaction of the road authority or the Commissioner, as the case may be, that immediately before its removal the vehicle was unlawfully parked while being used by a person other than the owner and that such use was unauthorised, the road authority or the Commissioner, as the case may be, may remit the charges due for the removal and for the storage of the vehicle.


(4) A charge under this article may, in default of being paid, be recovered as a simple contract debt in any court of competent jurisdiction.


PART V. Disposal of Vehicles.


8. Subject to the provisions of subsection (4) of section 97 of the Act, a road authority or the Commissioner, as the case may be, may dispose of a vehicle which has been removed and stored in accordance with the provisions of these Regulations in any manner they or he think fit where the owner of the vehicle has not claimed it or has not paid the charges due in accordance with the provisions of article 7 of these Regulations.


9. Where a road authority or the Commissioner proposes to dispose of a vehicle in accordance with the provisions of these Regulations, the road authority or the Commissioner, as the case may be, shall


(1) serve on the owner a notice of intention to dispose of the vehicle or,


(2) where it has not been found possible after reasonable enquiry to ascertain the name and address of the owner of the vehicle, publish in at least one daily newspaper circulating in the area where the vehicle was abandoned or unlawfully parked notice of the intention to dispose of the vehicle.


PART VI. Disposal of Moneys received on foot of Removal, Storage or Disposal of Vehicles.


10. (1) Moneys received by a road authority on foot of the removal, storage or disposal of an abandoned or unlawfully parked vehicle shall be paid into the relevant county or municipal fund, in accordance with sections 8 and 16, respectively, of the Local Government Act, 1946 (No. 24 of 1946).


(2) Moneys received by the Commissioner on foot of the removal, storage or disposal of an unlawfully parked vehicle shall be paid into or disposed of for the benefit of the Exchequer in such manner as the Minister for Finance directs.


(3) Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraphs (1) and (2) of this article, where before the expiration of the period of one year commencing on the date of the disposal of a vehicle by a road authority or by the Commissioner a person satisfies the road authority or the Commissioner, as the case may be, that he was the owner of the vehicle at the time of its disposal, the road authority or the Commissioner shall pay him a sum by which the proceeds of the disposal exceed the charges due for the removal and storage of the vehicle, together with the expenses reasonably incurred in the disposal of the vehicle.


GIVEN under the Official Seal of the Minister for the Environment this


30th day of March, 1983.


DICK SPRING,


Minister for the Environment.


EXPLANATORY NOTE.


These Regulations empower the Gardaí and, in certain circumstances, a road authority to remove, store and dispose of unlawfully parked vehicles and empower a road authority to take similar action in relation to vehicles which have been abandoned on a public road or in a public car park. They replace the Road Traffic (Removal, Storage and Disposal of Vehicles) Regulations, 1971 and the Road Traffic (Removal, Storage and Disposal of Vehicles) (Amendment) Regulations, 1977.


The Regulations provide, inter alia, for an increase in the removal charge from £10 to £20 and for an increase in the storage charge from £1 per day to £2 per day. They also provide that unlawfully parked vehicles may be removed either to a place of storage or to any other convenient place.

derry

Darragh29 wrote: »

......snip......
I recently posted a thread on this very topic of recovery of vehicles at the side of the road by recovery agents where lets just say the issue of being instructed to do so by a Garda was very much open to question, and unfortunately the thead I started was promptly closed by a mod here on this forum.
.....snip.....

Yeah its some sort of theme that runs through lots of forums

Best I figure form several closures in several forums the common denominater is if the forum mod cant see how the thead will progress viz a viz will it upset the PC brigade that now use the powers that runs the Nanny state they play safe and close it
Hush little baby go with the flow and the state will look after you



Re Darragh29:
It seems that you cracked the question of how the gaurda can have the rights to remove cars from your finding the legal documents

S.I. No. 91/1983:
ROAD TRAFFIC (REMOVAL, STORAGE AND DISPOSAL OF VEHICLES) REGULATIONS, 1983.

Now the $6,000,000 Question is are they allowed to also use destructive and abusive methods to remove cars and not supply compensation

I somehow don't think so


Derry