GLUAS for Galway

po0k

Victor wrote: »

Explain that one.

by the way - the rest of your post was made up on the spot, wasn't it?

Sand banks of the Liffey.
Subsidence.
Tight engineering tolerances for track alignment.
Derailment.

I thought them up of the top of my head too.

Fey!

Victor wrote: »

Explain that one.

by the way - the rest of your post was made up on the spot, wasn't it?

Randylonghorn and Po0K have already explained what you were looking for; as for the rest, it was late at night and I couldn't remember exact details - what I wrote came from several meetings I've been at where this has been discussed.

JohnCleary wrote: »

Fey - What business people are behind it? Building people who just want to profit from it (I know is what business is all about...) or actualy shop owners in Galway that want a better infrastructure?

Again, Randylonghorn has already addressed this. The only people who I know for definite are involved are shop owners who want to see the city improve. Brendan Holland is one of the main people pushing for it, and has put a huge amount of work into it already himself.

ValerieR

This is the email I received upon writing to the Gluas team to encourage them on this project :

"Thank you for you interest in our Gluas project. As you are probably well aware we have a long way to go yet. It is by no means a given. What we would like you to do immediately is to invest 55 cents in a stamp and write to the City Manager Joe McGrath Galway City Council, College Rd., Galway and tell him what a Gluas in Galway would mean to you. Also ask five people who would ask five people to do the same, If you only succeed in doing that you have done our cause a wonderful service.
Regards
Brendan Holland
Chairman"

Cato

what the hell? galways tiny what do you need a rail for ffs?

Robbo

ValerieR wrote: »

This is the email I received upon writing to the Gluas team to encourage them on this project :

"Thank you for you interest in our Gluas project. As you are probably well aware we have a long way to go yet. It is by no means a given. What we would like you to do immediately is to invest 55 cents in a stamp and write to the City Manager Joe McGrath Galway City Council, College Rd., Galway and tell him what a Gluas in Galway would mean to you. Also ask five people who would ask five people to do the same, If you only succeed in doing that you have done our cause a wonderful service.
Regards
Brendan Holland
Chairman"

Chain letters are no basis for a system of mass transit.

Webbs

Cato wrote: »

what the hell? galways tiny what do you need a rail for ffs?

If Galway is to continue to thrive grow and attract businesses to the area then it is vital that a system is put in place that can take potential employees around/through the city (this also goes for attracting more tourists a vital part of Galways economy).

With the increasing oil prices etc then there will be a growing demand for a good public transport system in any city of any size as people decide to leave their cars at home - If Galway can put this in place ahead of other cities then they will have an obvious advantage in the future

Cato

Webbs wrote: »

If Galway is to continue to thrive grow and attract businesses to the area then it is vital that a system is put in place that can take potential employees around/through the city (this also goes for attracting more tourists a vital part of Galways economy).

With the increasing oil prices etc then there will be a growing demand for a good public transport system in any city of any size as people decide to leave their cars at home - If Galway can put this in place ahead of other cities then they will have an obvious advantage in the future

makes sense, limerick could use one though, i remember walking the length of the city nearly just to get to school traffic was a night mare and is actually worse now, but thats a different thread altogether.

Victor

Aer Arann use ATR 72-500s - with 68 seats. Assuming the plane is full and half of the passengers aren't heading for Galway City or use other means, thats 34 potential passengers. There are at most 30 flights per day (Friday). Thats 1,020 passengers per day.

If trams operate at say 10 minute frequencies and can carry 200 passengers and operate from 6am to 11am, thats 102 departures in each direction.

Each tram would carry 10 travellers (+ airport staff).

http://www.galwayairport.com/timetable.asp

Wake up and realise you are being sold a pup by (a) a bunch of crayon using fantasists and (b) people who will get money for building a tram system that isn't needed.

Webbs

Victor wrote: »

Aer Arann use ATR 72-500s - with 68 seats. Assuming the plane is full and half of the passengers aren't heading for Galway City or use other means, thats 34 potential passengers. There are at most 30 flights per day (Friday). Thats 1,020 passengers per day.

If trams operate at say 10 minute frequencies and can carry 200 passengers and operate from 6am to 11am, thats 102 departures in each direction.

Each tram would carry 10 travellers (+ airport staff).

http://www.galwayairport.com/timetable.asp

Wake up and realise you are being sold a pup by (a) a bunch of crayon using fantasists and (b) people who will get money for building a tram system that isn't needed.

Myself and I assume the others posting on here aren't advocating a tram system for the sole purpose of getting people too and from the airport!!

If it has the airport as its easternmost terminus then why not? as it will hopefully be serving the business parks/estates on the run from west to east

So what about a 12 minute frequency rush hour, 15minutes+ would suffice in middle of day would probably give you in the region of 70 journeys. So now redo your figures using the people who work in these estates which i assume runs into 10000+

Fey!

Victor - what have you against what could be a viable transport system, and what would you suggest as an alternative?

Victor

I have nothing against something viable. I have something against lemons, which this is.

Substantilly, The solution for Galway lies in development along the existing railway (and not duplicating it), a proper bus service and people living on the same side of the city as they work.

Victor

Webbs wrote: »

So now redo your figures using the people who work in these estates which i assume runs into 10000+

But half of them live in Mayo.

Steyr

Webbs wrote: »

If it has the airport as its easternmost terminus then why not? as it will hopefully be serving the business parks/estates on the run from west to east

Damn right, in Dublin they want the Luas to go to the Airport now as almost every major Airport is serviced by a Train/tram, besides it would be a hell lot easier to get to Medtronic etc if one decided to work there, lots of people work out that way.

randylonghorn

Cato wrote: »

what the hell? galways tiny what do you need a rail for ffs?

Try getting from one side of it to the other at rush hour ... actually at any hour.

Victor wrote: »

Aer Arann use ATR 72-500s - with 68 seats. Assuming the plane is full and half of the passengers aren't heading for Galway City or use other means, thats 34 potential passengers. There are at most 30 flights per day (Friday). Thats 1,020 passengers per day.

If trams operate at say 10 minute frequencies and can carry 200 passengers and operate from 6am to 11am, thats 102 departures in each direction.

Each tram would carry 10 travellers (+ airport staff).

http://www.galwayairport.com/timetable.asp

Wake up and realise you are being sold a pup by (a) a bunch of crayon using fantasists and (b) people who will get money for building a tram system that isn't needed.

Victor, it's already been stated in this thread that there are currently no plans to run this to Galway Airport. I would agree with that thinking, like yourself I can see no argument for light rail to the airport, or envisage any need for more than a half-way decent bus service to the airport in the forseeable future.

I would have hoped however that the topic, whether people were in favour of this proposal or not (and again I point out that I am neither) would have evoked more useful discussion, constructive criticism and perhaps even interesting suggestions or alternatives than have been forthcoming up to now. I suppose I would have particularly hoped for more thoughtful comments from those with a proven interest in this area.

Galway may not be a huge city in terms of population, but it is quite spread out as a result of its location around the bay (and one might argue because of planning decisions, but that's another thread), and split in two by the Corrib. It is home to two large third-level institutions. NUI Galway is hitting for 15,000 students at this stage, and GMIT has about 7,000-7,500 studentsattending the main campus, allowing for those based at the Castlebar Campus and at the unit in Letterfrack. It has a large number of workers who must either travel into city centre to work, or from one side of the city to the other. It is a fairly major tourist destination, and in particular gets a high volume of young tourists who are largely dependent on public transport.

It has a woefully inadequate public transport infrastructure (like, I am fully prepared to admit, most of Ireland).

Thoughts, anyone?

randylonghorn

Victor wrote: »

Substantilly, The solution for Galway lies in development along the existing railway (and not duplicating it).

I would agree with that completely, insofar as possible, but it will only solve part of the problem.

Victor wrote: »

... a proper bus service)

Certainly could be improved, but no more than in many cities buses get snarled up in traffic and more or less grind to a halt.

Victor wrote: »

and people living on the same side of the city as they work.

Again, we're back to planning, and huge residential developments on the western side of the city when jobs are (in the main) on the east of the city or in the centre (as are the HEIs)

Victor wrote: »

But half of them live in Mayo.

Lol, even if true (!) they still have to come in to the city. Park'n'ride anyone?

Steyr wrote: »

Damn right, in Dublin they want the Luas to go to the Airport now as almost every major Airport is serviced by a Train/tram.

Galway is not a major airport, or even close to one, and won't be in the forseeable future.

Victor

Steyr wrote: »

Damn right, in Dublin they want the Luas to go to the Airport now as almost every major Airport is serviced by a Train/tram, besides it would be a hell lot easier to get to Medtronic etc if one decided to work there, lots of people work out that way.

But even Dublin Airport won't provide enough passengers for Metro, that why they have to continue it to Swords.

Galway Airport handles 300,000+ passengers per annum. Dublin Airport handles 23,000,000+ passengers per annum.

Mrs OBumble

Victor wrote: »

Aer Arann use ATR 72-500s - with 68 seats. Assuming the plane is full and half of the passengers aren't heading for Galway City or use other means, thats 34 potential passengers. There are at most 30 flights per day (Friday). Thats 1,020 passengers per day.

If trams operate at say 10 minute frequencies and can carry 200 passengers and operate from 6am to 11am, thats 102 departures in each direction.

Each tram would carry 10 travellers (+ airport staff).

http://www.galwayairport.com/timetable.asp

Wake up and realise you are being sold a pup by (a) a bunch of crayon using fantasists and (b) people who will get money for building a tram system that isn't needed.

I don't believe that we'd have 10-minute frequency - even some of the LUAS lines run at 15 or 20 minute frequencies for parts of their day, and Galway is a tad smaller than Dublin I would expect perhaps 30 minute or even 60 minute frequencies for some areas that currently have buses at these frequencies (eg Ballybrit). It's tempting to say that this won't be often enough to get people out of their cars - but if the trams don't get risk getting stuck in traffic, then it might just work.

A line which is just servicing one thing will not work, IMHO.

To make this work, they have to design routes that go where many people go: eg the one out to Ballybrit needs to go through Wellpark/Monivea Road (where people live) and the Ballybaan and Ballybritt estates (where people work), and Doughiska (where people live) But between these, there are some mighty nasty roads to cross. There's no way I'd do it on foot every day, so the tram will have to do it for me ... and I'm really looking forward to a more detailed route design that shows how this will be possible. (And just a tad pessimistic that it cannot be done.)

(Working in Ballybritt, I have colleagues who live perhaps 10-15 minutes walk from work: but the roads are so dangerous to cross, they feel that they have to travel by car each day ... madness!)

dafunk

Steyr wrote: »

Been reading up on the new light rail proposal for Galway City and looked at their proposed routes and thats all grand but why oh why is the GLUAS not going to connect to Galway Airport? ?:eek: They would really clean up if they went out to Carnmore..Bus Eireann dont even go out to the Airport.

The main airport in Dublin is poorly serviced at best by public transport, there's a few buses but no rail service. For an airport in a capital city in Europe this is disgraceful. Personally I feel embarrassed that tourists can't find their way around, let alone find an easy route from a city centre to the main airport. If they can't do it in Dublin it's no surprise that they can't / won't do it in Galway.

dafunk

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

The same crowd are proposing something similar for Limerick, strikes me as a nice mixture of pie in the sky and all out dreaming tbh. Neither city has the population to support a tram system (though obviously one would be welcome in both).

You would think so but other European cities with smaller populations and smaller catchment areas have introduced light rail so we should be able to do it to. I know someone who just did a feasibility study on it for his thesis and it was successful in other small European cities of similar / smaller size to Galway.

dafunk

I'd be all for a Galway city rail system, I live in knocknacarra and work near Ballybane so I'm accustomed to the problem of travelling through the city. However, the people who have to commute from Headford and through Tuam / ClareGalway are the ones really suffering. The Galway transport commitee should be looking at relieving those problems first with a rail system.

There are huge sections of unused dormant rail lines in and around Galway city / county that are just growing moss. It's insane they are not being used.

The sooner the oil tanks in the docks get moved, the sooner that bus eireann and can build their station and start servicing this city with buses. Buses could at least be a short term solution.

Our government always has been and currently is only interested in short term solutions. They don't want to invest money in long term projects and until that changes we will always have a joke of a public transport system.

Mars Bar

I'd cry with happiness just to get on a train/tram system to get to galway without getting stuck in claregalway...

pointofnoreturn

dafunk wrote: »

The main airport in Dublin is poorly serviced at best by public transport, there's a few buses but no rail service. For an airport in a capital city in Europe this is disgraceful. Personally I feel embarrassed that tourists can't find their way around, let alone find an easy route from a city centre to the main airport. If they can't do it in Dublin it's no surprise that they can't / won't do it in Galway.

Lets make Galway airport and the city an example to be the first!, not justifiable currently and maybe not +10yrs but a city where you can live without a car! but i can guarantee it will be a service that will encourage more development justifiable and attractable place to live

The route should also re-use as much as current rail infrastruture as possible, Galway to Clifden route for example.

And lets call it G-Metro, Luas sounds of failure! and i don't like the look of Tram-power UK, crap website and it's £££!!! keep it real europe! more successful companies else where

snubbleste

Doubt I'll see trams/light rail in Galway within my lifetime. I'll maintain that galwaywegians are too wedded to their cars for it to be a success.

Gluas is good for the name though. It is a play on the word speed and travel.

JohnCleary

I think we should build canals, yar! Or at least bring back the old one... how cool would it be to have draw/swing bridges in the city

Mrs OBumble

pointofnoreturn wrote: »

Lets make Galway airport and the city an example to be the first!, not justifiable currently and maybe not +10yrs but a city where you can live without a car!

Well I am happily living without a car

.. but it helps that I'm living in the inner city (the planning rules which insist on buildings having a mix of retail, office and residential are a good thing), and working at a site that's serviced by BE's very few factory buses. And that I've found a web-site which lets me get rental cars for 23-yoyo's per day when I need 'em.

Victor

JustMary wrote: »

I don't believe that we'd have 10-minute frequency - even some of the LUAS lines run at 15 or 20 minute frequencies for parts of their day, and Galway is a tad smaller than Dublin I would expect perhaps 30 minute or even 60 minute frequencies for some areas that currently have buses at these frequencies (eg Ballybrit).

What use is one tram per hour? Tram systems are only effective with large numbers of services per day, becuase of the cost of the fixed infrastructure.

dafunk wrote: »

The main airport in Dublin is poorly serviced at best by public transport, there's a few buses but no rail service.

Yeah only 15 bus / coach companies serving Dublin Airport, with Dublin Bus alone providing 327 departures per day.

http://www.dublinairport.com/to-and-from/by-bus/
http://www.dublinbus.ie/your_journey/viewer.asp?placeName=Dublin%20Airport

mars bar wrote: »

I'd cry with happiness just to get on a train/tram system to get to galway without getting stuck in claregalway...

So you want to extend the tram to Claregalway? A dual carraigeway isn't enough for you?

pointofnoreturn

Just want to say a note about the discussion here;

the reason their is so much negative feedback is people are not thinking solutions! you just talking about the problems we face,

We can do with thinking solutions! and not getting bothered about the problems, their is an answer for everything

So Please lets hear How this a GLUAS, Metro System can work for Galway

Mars Bar

Victor wrote: »

So you want to extend the tram to Claregalway? A dual carraigeway isn't enough for you?

I'm a student, I can't drive and won't drive coz I can't afford it. A dual carriageway ain't worth s**t to me. So there.

Victor

pointofnoreturn wrote: »

the reason their is so much negative feedback is people are not thinking solutions!

That sounds like something from Fairyland. It is for the proponent of something to back it up. Give me the solutions that you have.

mars bar wrote: »

I'm a student, I can't drive and won't drive coz I can't afford it. A dual carriageway ain't worth s**t to me. So there.

Bus or bike?

Mrs OBumble

Victor wrote: »

What use is one tram per hour? Tram systems are only effective with large numbers of services per day, becuase of the cost of the fixed infrastructure.

Yeah only 15 bus / coach companies serving Dublin Airport, with Dublin Bus alone providing 327 departures per day.

http://www.dublinairport.com/to-and-from/by-bus/
http://www.dublinbus.ie/your_journey/viewer.asp?placeName=Dublin%20Airport

And not one of them runs after 11pm! What time does the last flight get in, so?

Your're right: when there's a major capital cost for the infrastructure, you need to get a lot of use to make it economic. However there's no point in running a tram every 10 minutes if there will only be five people on each one. The trick is in matching frequency with demand ... and there's only so far that demand can be driven in a city of 80,000 (ish .. depending on how you count students and tourists).