Puppy Mounting Older Male Dog.

Bettyboop

I have 3 older shih-tzus and recently purchased a shih-tzu puppy,however things aren't working out with the older dogs,who are 12,11,and 15 yrs.The pup keeps mounting the older dog when he gets the chance and really stresses him out.I had to bring the older dog to the vet who kept him in an oxygen tent for the day as he has a bad heart.The vet advised me to get the puppy neutered and I did 4 days ago,however after coming home and recovering from sedation he immediately started to mount the older dog again,even the poor cat is attacked this way.How can I stop this rapist:)he is 7mths old now and all my other dogs are neutered too.He has to sleep in the room with me now as he still cant be trusted,he also fights with my other dog who is 12yrs old.Any advice appreciated.I really don't want to give him up:(
p.s. the dog he gets frisky with is blind and deaf.

Sherifu

Perhaps get him a girlfriend puppy?

kerrysgold

I think maybe it's him trying to be dominant, to be top dog instead of the older guy rather than anything to do with breeding. If that's the case, I think you should nip it in the bud asap because none of them should be "top dog" you should be the "leader" if that makes sense.....maybe ask a dog trainer or behaviorist? and in the mean time scold him for doing it, has he got other things to entertain himself like toys etc? and does he get plenty of exercise? Poor older guy must be a bit confused with all this carry on from the new dog lol. Good luck!

Bettyboop

thanks for the reply kerrysgold,yes I exercise everyday and get him running all over the place to ware him out but it seems to make him more frisky:)aas for toys well I have a house full off them squeaky ones, kongs teddies that make sounds wind up ones etc.My vet told me to starve him for a few days to give him less energy but I personally couldn't do that:eek:I have to put his lead on him and tie it to the pc chair so as we can all get some peace.He is a very loving dog and I love him to bits.I would hate to part with him but I feel so sorry for the older dog it doesn't seem fair.I never imagined all this was going to happen!! I hoped it would liven up the household it did but not the way I wanted.;)

kerrysgold

wow, nice vet! :O
well, I think if it's not a "medical" issue then maybe consult a behaviourist to figure out whats going on? to see if it's him trying to be dominant or not, my dogs have never tried any of this so I'm not sure really.....but good luck sorting it out anyway, sounds a bit chaotic!

Toulouse

I'd get a new vet if I were you. He/She should have made you aware that neutering is not a quick fix solution and it takes some months for the testosterone levels to drop. Starving a dog for a few days to to give him less energy? I'd never darken his door again :mad:

I would agree with Kerrygold that it is a dominance thing rather than a case of him being frisky. Do you correct him when he mounts the other dog? I would also speak to a behaviouralist about it and see if they have any ideas. There are several good ones knocking around on other boards so pm me if you want details.

peasant

Time to give the youngfella the cold shoulder treatment.
Your older dogs seem to be unable to stick up for themselves, so you have to do it.
Whenever youngster starts bothering one of your older dogs, pick him up and put him out. (out as in at least one closed door away from everyone else)

No fuss, no tirades, no speeches ...just swift action.
Then leave him out there for a good few minutes, let him in again after a while without comment and repeat as often as necessary.

Also, be careful over the next few days/weeks not to give him more attention than you give the oldies. No preferential treatment either.

That should bring him down a peg or two.

LadyTBolt

Hi Bettyboop.
This is not rare. We got a VIzsla pup and when he was tall enough he started to hump our big Lab. The Lab just let him off cos he was only a puppy and you can see it in his face he's just not bothered. Over a year and a half later and the Vizsla still humps the lab. We even got him a girldfriend and he has never tried to hump her. Not too worried about it, it's just his personality or maybe him getting some exercise, even though they get loads.

Don't worry about it. If the older dog didn't like it or even minded he'd let the younger dog know.

peasant

LadyTBolt wrote: »

Hi Bettyboop.
This is not rare. We got a VIzsla pup and when he was tall enough he started to hump our big Lab. The Lab just let him off cos he was only a puppy and you can see it in his face he's just not bothered. Over a year and a half later and the Vizsla still humps the lab. We even got him a girldfriend and he has never tried to hump her. Not too worried about it, it's just his personality or maybe him getting some exercise, even though they get loads.

Don't worry about it. If the older dog didn't like it or even minded he'd let the younger dog know.

Sorry, but that's utter rubbish.

Young dogs growing up will always try and find out where they stand in the doggy hirarchy and advance themselves to a better position.

Humping the older dogs is about the clearest signal they can send.

Between two healthy dogs this may be ok, but the domination of an old, sick dog shouldn't be tolerated.

The trouble is that we as owners often artificially elevate young pups into a higher position due to the attention that they need and get. All that toilet training followed by general training etc means that they get more of our time than the oldies who already know they need to know. This gives the pup the impression that they are the favourites and therefore the highest ranking among all dogs.
If we then fail to give the older dogs the attention they are used to, then they will also get the message that the young dog ranks over them.

In the case of docile and peaceful dogs this "revolution" may pass without incident, if your dogs have strong personalities though it all might end in a bloodbath (literally!), most likely when you're not there.

Generally speaking it is not a good idea to have a half grown youngster under the impression that it rules the roost. It will not be experienced enough to be a good "top dog" and will be heavy handed in pushing its perceived status on to the others. Squabbles, bullying, animosities and grudges will be the result.

If you as the owner want to be a good leader, my recommendation is to surpress all outward displays of dominance in your dogs and appoint yourself as chief peacekeeper.

With my three dogs I don't worry who is or isn't higher ranking among them, I treat them all equally ...but I do step in with iron discipline if there is squabbling going on, it's just not tolerated.
This works very well for me and my dogs and I'd like to believe that they are happy and content as a group without a strict internal hirarchy.

Bettyboop

Have to agree with you peasant :)I do believe it is a dominant issue with my puppy,I have done what you said about putting him outside and ignoring him and it does work for a while:D I have only started doing this so hopefully in time he will know he ain't the boss.However why hump the cat is this not oddor is this part off the dominant issue as well:D
Thanks for your advice Peasant;)

carwash_2006

Remember that the humping is a part of trying to become the higher ranking animal. The truly high ranking animal hardly ever needs to display in this fashion. So there could be a certain amount of insecurity involved. In general make sure that the boundaries are made very clear to a dog displaying in this fashion, which means mostly that you must be very consistent.

I would say the fact that the dog humos the cat would indicate a level of insecurity. Does he lift his leg much?

peasant

Humping the cat is not a sexual act, the dog isn't confused. It is simply an expression of dominant behaviour. Nip it in the bud and tell him off for it.

(also in the interest of his own safety ...our cats would tear any dog that was trying to hump them to tiny little shreds)

To explain: the cat competes with him for your attention, by dominating the cat he is hoping to get more of your time for himself ...so you will have to let him know that as the boss it is YOUR decision who you give attention to and who you don't.

Withdrawing what he wants most is the most effective teaching method ...continue to throw him out, regardless of who or what he humps

Morganna

its a dominant thing