Minister announces new firearms laws on the way for handguns

chem

Sparks wrote: »

No, you're forgetting, we were offered .22 and air pistols ten years earlier. Instead of doing this step-by-step (get those first, build up familiarity and go back looking for more a year or two later), the offer was rejected to pursue the "all or nothing" approach. The comparison with the Donegal case (to me at least) is striking.

TBH Sparks i think this would of all happened no matter what. If it was step-by-step once we got to so many .22 pistols been licenced it would of been picked up some where by the media and again headlines like explosion of pistol certs issued etc.

Its all silly when you think of it. 2000 licenced pistols in a sea of illegal firearms. Cant do anything about gun crime but can get headlines about strict gun laws that do notting. Same old same old. People are like sheep. They can be lead anywhere:rolleyes:

Have started to look into joining a club in the north and leaving my firearms there and shooting them at weekend. Even if this blows over. Alot more grown up about things like licenced firearms up there.

What was that tune the band played on the titanic? I think I hear it ringing in my ears for shooting sports in this country. Someone is knocking on doors this while over pistol licences. Questions asked in the Dail, TV and radio all over it lately! Someone is in the background pushing these buttons and putting out the spin;)

Grizzly 45

Sparks wrote: »

How many will be high-end, top-of-the-line race guns though Grizzly?
And who says they'll even bother with paying for them? If they just refuse to give you a licence, they're not depriving you of your ownership of the property - you can sell it to reclaim your investment. That worked for thirty years the last time...

Point is Sparks,if the others can milk ahysteriasituation,we should be able to play thesame tactic.Cos it wont stop at handguns.....
Errr.I actually wonder Sparks.HOW many people were given that option in 1972?????????Not alot I would wager considering it wasa tempoary custody of 31 days or 35 years.
Sorry,fool us once and all that.Nope,I will be another joining the high court challange.If it costs 300k so be it.Cos if we dont win,you wont need the 300k either for ranges or training or whatnot.Because thereWONT be anyone to train,or any firearms in this country to train with afterwards.
Somtimes,somone,somwhere has to be counted.Tough luck if it lands on you.

bunny shooter

cavan shooter wrote: »

........ on little 22lr??.

This type of b****x is very annoying :mad:

Ooooh, I'm a real man and only real men fire a 9mm

BornToKill

Hello everyone! I've been reading this forum a while but this is my first post. It seems to me that what just happened was inevitable.

Can anyone explain why the National Association of Regional Game Councils took a case where the applicant was looking to license a Glock .40 pistol? Am I right in saying you can't hunt with a pistol under the Wildlife Acts?

People on here are saying that license holders are beyond reproach since we are approved by the Gardaí but the truth is that even when the Guards had reservations on applicants they have still been forced to hand out licenses following court cases. If they don't have control over who gets a semi-automatic pistol is it any wonder the authorities start to become concerned?

This barrage of litigation was like playing Russian roulette - you can win 50 or however many times in a row but you can't afford to lose even once.

That said, the world doesn't now end, the sky doesn't fall and we don't go back to 1972. Some people wanted to run before we started to walk and wouldn't listen to anyone and that's led to a setback for the 0.7% or whatever of people who own handguns. For the rest, life goes on. It's a pity for the genuine people and hopefully there will be exemptions negotiated but it didn't need to be this way. Maybe if people had spent more time out shooting and less time rowing internally and taking court cases we wouldn't be here now. Just a thought ...

cavan shooter

bunny shooter wrote: »

This type of b****x is very annoying :mad:

Ooooh, I'm a real man and only real men fire a 9mm

whoops, didn't mean to upset,
Only trying to push on the topic

packas

BornToKill wrote: »

Hello everyone! I've been reading this forum a while but this is my first post. It seems to me that what just happened was inevitable.

Can anyone explain why the National Association of Regional Game Councils took a case where the applicant was looking to license a Glock .40 pistol? Am I right in saying you can't hunt with a pistol under the Wildlife Acts?

People on here are saying that license holders are beyond reproach since we are approved by the Gardaí but the truth is that even when the Guards had reservations on applicants they have still been forced to hand out licenses following court cases. If they don't have control over who gets a semi-automatic pistol is it any wonder the authorities start to become concerned?

This barrage of litigation was like playing Russian roulette - you can win 50 or however many times in a row but you can't afford to lose even once.

That said, the world doesn't now end, the sky doesn't fall and we don't go back to 1972. Some people wanted to run before we started to walk and wouldn't listen to anyone and that's led to a setback for the 0.7% or whatever of people who own handguns. For the rest, life goes on. It's a pity for the genuine people and hopefully there will be exemptions negotiated but it didn't need to be this way. Maybe if people had spent more time out shooting and less time rowing internally and taking court cases we wouldn't be here now. Just a thought ...

+1
& hopefully any new laws will take into account that handguns of all calibres can & are used domestically & internationally in legitimate target shooting competitions. I hope that those who take part in those legitimate target shooting activities will have nothing to fear with regard to any new legislation.
However for those who apply for a handgun licence simply because they just want one I hope that any new legislation will swiftly take care of such applications. Lets hope the dialogue that the shooting community has had with the Government to date continues and that the shooting community & the law makers work hand in hand in achieving their goals i.e. state security & ensuring that legitiamte target sportsmen & women can continue with this wonderful sport of target pistol shooting.

bunny shooter

cavan shooter wrote: »

whoops, didn't mean to upset,
Only trying to push on the topic

Fair enough

bunny shooter

packas wrote: »

+1
& hopefully any new laws will take into account that handguns of all calibres can & are used domestically & internationally in legitimate target shooting competitions. I hope that those who take part in those legitimate target shooting activities will have nothing to fear with regard to any new legislation.
However for those who apply for a handgun licence simply because they just want one I hope that any new legislation will swiftly take care of such applications. Lets hope the dialogue that the shooting community has had with the Government to date continues and that the shooting community & the law makers work hand in hand in achieving their goals i.e. state security & ensuring that legitiamte target sportsmen & women can continue with this wonderful sport of target pistol shooting.

......... and snow white and the gun toting nut lived happily ever after

Sparks

cavan shooter wrote: »

Then why the panic if they ban 9mm, can't you shoot targets just as well with air pistol and 22lr

Because it negates the FCP. And that means that things I wanted to see happen through the FCP (like deregulating airguns with a muzzle energy of 7 joules or less, and implementing the europass as it was meant to be) may not happen. And it also means the risk of going back to where we were ten years ago, with all our resources going into "fighting da man" instead of into the sport and with all the other crap that was happening back then.
Just because I don't use a .45 myself doesn't mean there isn't sufficient fallout here to clobber me too.

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

........(like deregulating airguns with a muzzle energy of 7 joules or less.........

What's this in FT LBS ? I heard this is in the pipeline ?

FTR I heard if from a dealer :P

thehair

Sparks wrote: »

And this isn't over yet. In today's papers...

From the Irish Times:

From the Irish Independent:

From the Offaly Express:

looks like a garda press releast to me

Sparks

It's approximately 5.2 ft-lbs BS.

Sparks

thehair wrote: »

looks like a garda press releast to me

Not Garda. They don't issue press releases on behalf of the Minister for Justice.

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

It's approximately 5.2 ft-lbs BS.

That's low. 12 FT LBS is limit in UK

Sparks

It's 12 for air rifles, 6 for air pistols. But in Germany and most of europe AFAIR, it's 7 joules.

All the ISSF stuff is 7 joules. If that was deregulated, it would be much easier to get people started, and we could start training juniors much earlier and actually have a fighting chance in international matches, where our shooters are always disadvantaged by not being able to start for a good six to eight years before their competitors

Not to mention that if they were deregulated, you wouldn't have to get ranges licenced under 4A and that would reduce building costs and that would make it easier to set up ranges.

Ultimately, it would benefit everyone - but without the FCP in play, it's a far, far harder thing to do.

thehair

Sparks wrote: »

Because it negates the FCP. And that means that things I wanted to see happen through the FCP (like deregulating airguns with a muzzle energy of 7 joules or less, and implementing the europass as it was meant to be) may not happen. And it also means the risk of going back to where we were ten years ago, with all our resources going into "fighting da man" instead of into the sport and with all the other crap that was happening back then.
Just because I don't use a .45 myself doesn't mean there isn't sufficient fallout here to clobber me too.

well sparks i like a lot of other STILL HAVE FAITE IN THE F C P
if people on this PUBLIC FORUM clobber you and me so what
it just show the way people think lets all PANIC and FREAK OUT
lots of bs and lets FEED the media MONSTER WITH INFO STEVE

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

It's 12 for air rifles, 6 for air pistols. But in Germany and most of europe AFAIR, it's 7 joules.

All the ISSF stuff is 7 joules. If that was deregulated, it would be much easier to get people started, and we could start training juniors much earlier and actually have a fighting chance in international matches, where our shooters are always disadvantaged by not being able to start for a good six to eight years before their competitors

Not to mention that if they were deregulated, you wouldn't have to get ranges licenced under 4A and that would reduce building costs and that would make it easier to set up ranges.

Ultimately, it would benefit everyone - but without the FCP in play, it's a far, far harder thing to do.

If they were deregulated would you still need a firearms licence and would the age limit apply eg 16 (at moment)

Sparks

No and no BS. Which is why it would be useful. We asked at the FCP conference if it could go into the Misc. Bill that was upcoming at that point, and ironically enough it was Des Crofton who said this should go to a back burner and we should deal with it step by step :rolleyes:

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

No and no BS. Which is why it would be useful. We asked at the FCP conference if it could go into the Misc. Bill that was upcoming at that point, and ironically enough it was Des Crofton who said this should go to a back burner and we should deal with it step by step :rolleyes:

I agree it would benefit everybody.

Good ol' Des, the voice of shooting in Ireland

Grizzly 45

Sparks wrote: »

Not Garda. They don't issue press releases on behalf of the Minister for Justice.

Nope,just linked stories picked up from the same newsfeed.:)

Bananaman

I have been away for a week - shooting IPSC - with my FULLBORE pistol - so have only now caught up to some of this nonsense.

The Thread topic here was that the Minister has announced some changes.
Interested, I read on, but found that it was load of tripe about what we will do if the sky falls in.

You are all paranoid. Take a deep breath and let it out slowly - Awwwwwmmmmmmm

As far as I can tell the Minster has announced nothing specific but said that he will "do something" about "gun ownership" in "due course".

I fail to see why this will simply not be to implement the CJB. Anything else is pure conjecture - well most things here are but you get the point.

Why would he do anything else? Has his department not been putting this thing together for ages? Why throw that away and make something up?

As to all this waffle about using .22 for Practical - in my own view - BANANAS.

And Airsoft - that is just taking the piss - it would be like building a bridge asking welders to use only Solder and Engineers to only use meccano -
it is a TOY.

Sure, IPSC are willing to umbrella some crazies in Japan, simply because that region is not allowed to have anything else. However, they will not be able to compete with anyone as nobody else will be doing it. They simply want to be recognised by the IPSC so that they can adopt their rules and IPSC will provide oversight on their national championships. IPSC is very inclusive so is willing to do this.

There has not been a legally held pistol in Britain for over a decade (lot of good that has done for their communities) - they were a founding member of IPSC - they held the world shoot in Bisley before the epoch - where is their .22 or Airsoft practical? - nowhere - why? - because it is NUTS.

What happened to all their top shooters? Did they buy up .22 Rugers or 8mm MARUI Airsoft Glocks? No - They moved to other countries where they were allowed to shoot and got citizenship and now pay their taxes there and compete on behalf of those countries.


B'Man

Sparks

Bananaman wrote: »

There has not been a legally held pistol in Britain for over a decade

*cough,cough*

foxhunter

Bananaman wrote: »

I have been away for a week - shooting IPSC - with my FULLBORE pistol - so have only now caught up to some of this nonsense.

The Thread topic here was that the Minister has announced some changes.
Interested, I read on, but found that it was load of tripe about what we will do if the sky falls in.

You are all paranoid. Take a deep breath and let it out slowly - Awwwwwmmmmmmm

As far as I can tell the Minster has announced nothing specific but said that he will "do something" about "gun ownership" in "due course".

I fail to see why this will simply not be to implement the CJB. Anything else is pure conjecture - well most things here are but you get the point.

Why would he do anything else? Has his department not been putting this thing together for ages? Why throw that away and make something up?

As to all this waffle about using .22 for Practical - in my own view - BANANAS.

And Airsoft - that is just taking the piss - it would be like building a bridge asking welders to use only Solder and Engineers to only use meccano -
it is a TOY.

Sure, IPSC are willing to umbrella some crazies in Japan, simply because that region is not allowed to have anything else. However, they will not be able to compete with anyone as nobody else will be doing it. They simply want to be recognised by the IPSC so that they can adopt their rules and IPSC will provide oversight on their national championships. IPSC is very inclusive so is willing to do this.

There has not been a legally held pistol in Britain for over a decade (lot of good that has done for their communities) - they were a founding member of IPSC - they held the world shoot in Bisley before the epoch - where is their .22 or Airsoft practical? - nowhere - why? - because it is NUTS.

What happened to all their top shooters? Did they buy up .22 Rugers or 8mm MARUI Airsoft Glocks? No - They moved to other countries where they were allowed to shoot and got citizenship and now pay their taxes there and compete on behalf of those countries.


B'Man

+1 B'man great post

Sparks

B'man, from the Minister yesterday in the dail talking about legally held handguns:

Prior to this weekend, I intend to bring forward a technical decision because of some court decisions on the interpretation of the recent Act and regulations. There needs to a tightening up because we need to bring this legislation together to ensure there is no further proliferation of these firearms.

Grizzly 45

Sure, IPSC are willing to umbrella some crazies in Japan, simply because that region is not allowed to have anything else. However, they will not be able to compete with anyone as nobody else will be doing it.

Well,if you consider a few MILLION Chinese,Indonesians,Japanese,S Koreans ,etc a few crazies and their market for selling the airsoft modified and and ancillary kit crazy???? It is going to out grow IPSC real guns before you can say Banzai.MONEY Bman is a great motivator.....:rolleyes:

It is also a great chance for those races to maybe justify in the future a chance to aquire REAL firearms to compete with the rest of the world.

Not to mind getting the next generation into practical shooting sports
without the hassle of liscensing real firearms,and breaking the bank in the process.Really bad idea yeah??:rolleyes:

Uhmmm, Germany and ASFIK Fance has started running a few matches.

What happened to all their top shooters? Did they buy up .22 Rugers or 8mm MARUI Airsoft Glocks? No - They moved to other countries where they were allowed to shoot and got citizenship and now pay their taxes there and compete on behalf of those countries.

Indeed,those that could,had the money,and job opportunities.The rest of the poor schmoes had to hand up their stuff,or change to shotguns or rifles.
B'Man[/quote]

Look,I wouldnt be my cup of tea either.I simply used it as a point to illustrate that if needs be people can adapt.I ,would if I had to rather still shoot practical pistol with a converted Glock to 22 lr ,than not at all here.And simply collect my 9mm slide and barrel when I am shooting internationally.

In reality compared to the rest of Europe,we have it DEAD EASY on aquiring firearms.Were you shooting in Germany you wouldnt even see a 9mm for at least for at least 12/14months in a club and after stringent written, oral ,and practical exams.Not to mind a few sessions with a head shrinker[supplied by the State,paid bu you]
So if it got me shooting,and I was stacking up my qualifying time on saftey,tactics etc,before I got anywhere near the real stuff,and it carries forward on my saftey exam????I think you would find it quite well taken up.Plus if somone decided they didnt like this kind of shooting,getting rid of airsoft,isnt that much of investment or legal bother.

You know,before shooting somthing down,you should look if there is possibly some useage for the sport in general.I would rather we had a few kids using their airsofts learning parctical shooting,and possibly talent spotted for coaching when they are older for real firearms than hanging around in hoodies,pretending they are gangstas in east LA.:rolleyes:

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

B'man, from the Minister yesterday in the dail talking about legally held handguns:

The sky has just fallen in ? :eek:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0708/oireachtasreport_av.html?2396717,null,230

Go to approx 17 mins for Ministers reaction to pistol licences

He mentions all firearms not just pistols. Seems there are too many firearms in private hands.

Sikamick

Bananaman wrote: »

There has not been a legally held pistol in Britain for over a decade (lot of good that has done for their communities) - they were a founding member of IPSC - they held the world shoot in Bisley before the epoch - where is their .22 or Airsoft practical? - nowhere - why? - because it is NUTS.

---

The fallacy of no legally held hand guns in the UK. I was in Bisley two months ago and seen them for sale. In the North of Ireland which is part of the UK they use exactly the same pistols as we use here.

Yes the ones in the UK mainland have longer barrels and counterbalance weights, but they use the same calibres as we use here. This fallacy has to be cleared up.

Below is an advertisement I copied from the Internet for pistols and revolvers for sale from a firearms dealer in the UK.

Michael O’Connor
Secretary to Dublin Target Sports Club

---

GUNSHOP
15 Cat Hill, East Barnet, Hertfordshire, EN4 8HG
Opening Hours 9:30 to 6:00 Lunch 1:00 till 2:00
Tuesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday
E-Mail joe@gunshop-eb.co.uk
020 8440 2974


Long Barrel Revolvers and Pistols PRICE.22" LR Alpha 6 Shot Blue New........................................................ £435-00
.357" Alpha 6 Shot Blue New............................................................ £515-00
.44" Mag Freedom Arms 6 Shot Stainless New............................. £1979-00
.17"HMR Taurus M 01 7 Shot Stainless New................................... £615-00
.22" LR Taurus Mod 980 7 Shot Stainless New................................ £615-00
.22" Mag Taurus Mod 980 7 Shot Stainless New.............................. £615-00
.30" M 1 Taurus Mod 30S 8 Shot Stainless New.............................. £645-00
.357" Mag Taurus Mod 66 7 Shot Blue S/H..................................... £425-00
.357" Mag Taurus Mod 66 7 Shot Stainless New............................. £615-00
.44" Mag Taurus Mod 044 6 Shot Stainless New............................. £645-00

Air Rifles | Air Pistols
Automatic and Pump action Shotguns | English Shotguns | Left Handed Shotguns | Over and Under Shotguns
Side by Side Shotguns | Small bore and Single Barrel Shotguns
Centerfire Sporting Rifles | Centerfire Target Rifles | Left Handed Rifles | Military Rifles | Rimfire Rifles
.17" Rimfire Rifles | FAC Air Rifles | Underlever Rifles | Rifle Stocks | Long Barrel Revolvers|
B-Square Scope mounts | Hillver Scope Mounts | Leupold Scope Mounts | Millett Scope Mounts | Telescopic sights
Blackpowder | Accessories | Magazines | Reloading Components | Spare parts | Centerfire Target Ammunition | Home

astraboy

The question remains has there EVER been an incident with a member of the shooting community using a legally held pistol in a way they should not have and endangered public health? Why are the highly law abiding shooters of Ireland once again made a scapegoat while criminals can easily get access to handguns, and those that want to license them for sports hit brick wall after brick wall...:mad: Its like we are treated like children and we are greatful of any concessions given to us by our lords and masters in the Guards/Dail when we have consistently displayed how safe, professional and law abiding we are in our ownership and use of our firearms.....

Makes my blood boil.

Last time I was in Bisley I had a long chat with the (proud) parents of the GB AP champion.

There are regular AP and .22 pistol comps in the UK, and they have some excellent shooters.

Vegeta

So are we going to sit here and moan and bitch or are we going to actually e-mail these folk and tell them that this is a stupid idea because legally held firearms are not a problem in any part of society.

Does the Minister even know there's a FCP looking at all this stuff?

We have a few things in our favour:
Every firearms owner is checked by the gardai and are the most law abiding citizens around.
High profile shooter going to olympics
FCP has been going a while now, why not adopt their conclusions
Practically no legally held fireatrms used in crime (would he like to provide stats to the contrary)
UK stats show that banning pistols/handguns was not effective in reducing crime with firearms. 500% increase was it?
Didn't a practical pistol shooter win a medal lately?

So even if only those points are only summarised in an e-mail to the Minister and the folk asking the parlimentary questions then we will have done something rather than the usual arguements with each other.

I have a meeting at 10.30 today but after that I will draft my e-mail and send it.