Minister announces new firearms laws on the way for handguns

Mac Gunner

When words like proliferation gets used you start to get into UN
speak for banning the spread of small arms around the world, Africa the
prime example of this spread. Sports and Target shooters in the ROI in
real numbers are far less. If you have a Shotgun, Fullbore rifle, .22 rifle
thats 3 certs for the one firearms holder. When you get the total number
for all firearms in the ROI mentioned in the Dail it can be made seem we
have lots of firearmholders.
How many full bore pistols do we have in the ROI as it does seem like the
1700 pistols are all Glock 9mm to many people outside the sport.?

What would the overall figures for firearm ownership in all of the UK, Germany, France look like if they used the
same method of each firearm requiring a cert like we use here. That would put the ROI right down the league and back into the good books as the minister said the population of the ROI has grown?

G17

Mac Gunner wrote: »

as it does seem like the
1700 pistols are all Glock 9mm to many people outside the sport.?

And they should be all Glocks! All other inferior brands should be only available in loo loo laa laa, I'm pretty, oh I broke a nail owwy, land:p:D

On a serious note, I've sent an email to the Minister's office to gently remind him that Glocks (and their ilk) have a sinister image due in part to Hollywood, in part lazy journalism and I explained that they make many fine sporting firearms. I pleaded with him to leave the competing, training, attending handgun sportsmen and women to their sport and by all means clamp down on people who want a handgun just because they can.

I urge everyone that cares to do the same.

Grizzly 45

Intresting little stat I got from my local CPO. The three most pouplar brands of firearms being legally aquired in the Limerick area. Are all of Germanic extraction. Sig,Glock and HK.:cool:With the odd Walther as well.

So I guess that makes us all criminals,as the Glock seems to be the most recoverd handgun in the happy families dispute down here.:rolleyes:

OR maybe it is just because both sides of the law recognise a damn good firearm when they see it?

Folks,I really do hope you email/write to both mr Aherne and Mr Flanagan on this matter,as I will.However I hope more than FIVE of us make an effort on this!!:rolleyes:Otherwise it will be just an embarrasment again,and just look like "a few gun nuts moaning about proper legislation"/I]Ministerthink[I

Do this job right or dont bother at all.If this man doesnt recive at least 500 emails and letters/faxes on this within the nex tweek.It wont be worth the effort.And dont think you can sit this out just because you dont shoot pistol.The word here is FIREARMS legislation.Give a politican an inch on this,they will have a mile.:(

Also,I would now like to know,is anyone bothering to take our side on our supposedly pro journalist/media contacts? Havent seen any response from the newly converted Dr Clonan in the IT on this matter,or in any other paper either.:(.Quite frankly I dont expect any either.When push comes to shove,you soon find out who your "friends"are.

It wasn't me!

What are the relevant e-mail addresses? I can't remember how to find them...

G17

It wasn't me! wrote: »

What are the relevant e-mail addresses? I can't remember how to find them...

Any T.D.

firstname.surname@oireachtas.ie

thehair

#264 chem
Registered User


Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 369
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Email sent to Dermot Ahern TD

dermot@dermotahern.ie

g i7

Sparks

It wasn't me! wrote: »

What are the relevant e-mail addresses? I can't remember how to find them...

Here are all of them.

G17

Who else will email?

Go on, do it, you don't have to write a novel, just plead with the Minister to take people's sporting interests into account.
Tell him about the charities your club has supported, about your safety procedures, your vetting procedures.
Be nice, put yourself behind his desk, he only hears the bad news stories.
Tell him why you enjoy your sport and why you welcome tighter control to weed out handgun owners who don't participate in actual sport.
If he doesn't hear these thing en masse, he might say, let's ban the lot, no-one really cares, I haven't heard anything much from the sporting shooters.
Again, put yourself in his shoes, if you were threatened with court cases
and told you were making stupid mistakes, if you were told other countries
are so much better than this country regarding sporting shooting...how would you react, I'd get my back up and say f*ck 'em?

Please email.



Speak now or forever don't hold your piece (sorry, I couldn't, resist ).

thehair

if antbody can satisfied the used of a FAIRARM FOR SPORT OR HOBBIE
WHY E-MAIL steve

Gun nut

regarding some of the statements made regarding practical shooting in the far east,it is absolutely huge there.While China may have a total firearm ban and in Japan a gun permit is extremely hard to get.On the other hand the Philippines is probably the most shooter friendly nation on earth apart from the USA.Shooting clubs everywhere in the Phils and they compete strongly with the other ASEAN countries such as Thailand Singapore Malasia Taiwan etc.In western Europe best country for shooters is probably France.

chem

Have already sent an e-mail to Mr. Ahern. If you look at his own web site it says he entered into politics because of an injustice he felt for his local football teams. Under funding etc.

Now if Mr. Ahern can see from our point of view that him banning our sport would be like banning football to him, it might just open his eyes!

Grizzly 45

In western Europe best country for shooters is probably France.

[/QUOTE]
Switzerland,if you can get in & afford to live there.:)
Finland, deffo, Full auto stuff,and heavt artillery[literally]except it is freezing there in winter.
Czech Republic is another good deal.

Gun nut

Any info or links on the gun laws in the Czech Republic.

Grizzly 45

Cant find any off the top.But you could try emailing www.topguntours.com and ask their Czech branch to give you the basics.
From what I see,if they allow Full auto stuff.It must be pretty liberal.:D

johngalway

I've no interest in pistols, I've never shot one, I'll never own one but I've read this thread and I'll send a letter in. It's not right that legal firearms owners are having dirt shovelled ontop of them from all angles while the criminals are ruling the roost. If the cops want to do something they should descend upon the wastes of space causing the trouble and persecute them instead of my fellow shooters.

On the issue of airguns. I think they need to be licenced in all honesty. I'm on quite a few UK sites and I often see reports on idiots doing things they shouldn't be doing with airguns they shouldn't have. When I was new to shooting I was dead against licencing them, now I've a bit more info digested I can see why it's a good thing, it thins out the number of idiot owners giving the responsible owners a poor name. This is not to take anything away from starters or people trying to establish clubs or ranges but it's to protect anyone and everyone wishing to follow a specific sport.

It wasn't me!

This just went out to Minister Ahern. Shall see what response it gets, if any.

E-Mail to Minister wrote:

Dear Minister,

As a sporting shooter, your recent announcement of your intentions to introduce more stringent legislation in the area of firearms licensing has caused me to write to you. I must take issue, first and foremost, with your statement that there is a need to curb the "proliferation" of firearms in society, with particular reference to pistols. Pistols represent a tiny, tiny minority of licensed firearms, and you yourself have quoted the figures, so I feel no need to remind you of them. Every pistol in the country is owned by individuals who are deemed law-abiding and whose possession of these pistols has been deemed to pose no threat to public safety or security in accordance with the Firearms Act. The security measures demanded of those applicants seeking to license a pistol are also such that it would be wrong to claim that their presence, in the extraordinarily secure homes of the most law-abiding section of Irish society, constitutes any such threat to public safety or security as would necessitate further legislation on the matter.

I would also be interested in the figures for the use of legally held firearms in criminal incidents by their legal owners, and the use of legally held pistols in particular. I feel that to furnish such information is an appropriate request of the Minister, in order to lend credibility to the proposal that the further restriction of firearms ownership, and pistol ownership in particular, would reduce incidences of gun crime, as I am not convinced that there is any evidence that such will be the effect.

In closing, I feel it worth reminding the Minister that he crusaded in the past in the name of under-funded and poorly represented sports and sporting organisations, and that I am disappointed if he should now nail his colours firmly to the other side of that mast when discussing sporting firearms. When we are sending a shooter to the Olympic games in only a few weeks, and when one of our pistol shooters has only just won a President's Medal from the international governing body of the sport, I believe the Minister should remember his support of those sporting organisations who survive on a shoestring and who badly need more support than they currently receive. I hope he will remember his political roots and will make the right decision.

Yours sincerely and in sport,

Grizzly 45

Just sent mine as well.So five letters sofar?

cavan shooter

Sent mine to both Ministers and their Leaders.

Sikamick

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Just sent mine as well.So five letters sofar?

Grizzly I have sent an e-mail to the Minister of Justice stating my feeling/concerns and that of our 125 club members.

One thing I might add is that the NGB's, Clubs, and individual shooters should draw attention to the Minister the cost we have incurred in upgrading our ranges to have them authorized, cost incurred re Garda security demands, i.e alarms and the likes to our homes to get our Firearms Licenses.

If he the (Minister) decides to change the law or withdraw certain firearms from the list (Who will compensate us for the cost we have incurred)


Michael O'Connor
Secretary to Dublin Target Sports Club
aka Sikamick

Traumadoc

sent mine.

bunny shooter

Just finished sending my e-mail to the Minister, copy below :

Dear Minister,

I am writing to you to highlight my disappointment at your recent comments in the Dail on friearms legislation. I have listened to a member of the Opposition in the Dail mention the INLA and licenced sporting firearms holders in the same light. This is a personal attack on myself and many other law abiding citizens.

There has been an inordinate amount of negative publicity in the media concerning firearms crime and supposed links to licenced sporting firearms. Do you really think that restricting the sporting firearms held by law abiding citizens will reduce the crimewave that is sweeping this country at the moment ? In the UK, which the media here are quick to use as a template, there is a growing feeling that restricting private licensed sporting firearms has done nothing to reduce gun crime. Apparently, gun crime has risen by 500% since the ban there. Numerous British MP's are actually proposing to re-introduce pistols for sporting shooting, including Kate Hoey.

I am a sporting firearms owner and I have invested a lot of money and time in my sport. I am a member of two local game shooting clubs and a Garda authorised shooting range, at an annual cost of +€400.00.

I have had a monitiored alarm system installed in my home and a gun safe at the request of the Gardai. The alarm instalation cost +€1,200.00 plus an annual monitoring fee of +€190.00. The gun safe cost me +€450.00. My annual firearms licence fees are €168.00 (5 x lcences). This is before I buy ammunition, targets etc.

I am a law abiding member of society and you now propose to restrict my access to sporting firearms, which I need to pursue my chosen sport, because your department seems unable to take the unlicenced firearms from criminals. Hopefully the criminals don't start to use hurleys or curtailing their proliferation will have to be commenced also.

I suggest that you contact the Dept. of Justice members of the Firearms Consultative Panel and speak with them on this matter. They have been working very hard with members of the shooting community to sort out this problem in a mutually acceptable way.


Is mise, le meas,

It wasn't me!

That is a very good response, bunny shooter, well done.

N.O.I.P.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs08/hosb0308.pdf

Page 36 of that document has a graph showing the figures for firearms crime in the UK between 98/99 and 06/07. Theres no distinction between crimes involving legally held firearms and illegally held ones but the figure might be of use to anyone else sending emails or letters.

I'll see if I can find figures from before the pistol ban* came in.



*For want of a better term

Sikamick

Firearms Licensing
Application for a Firearm Certificate

The 'Application for a Firearm Certificate' form and 'Reference Form' are available by contacting the Firearms Licensing Department.

You can download a full Firearms Application Pack by clicking here. The forms are available individually at the bottom of the page.

Return all completed forms to:

The Police Firearms Licensing Department
North Yorkshire Police
Police Headquarters
Newby Wiske Hall
Northallerton
North Yorkshire,
DL7 9HA

Guidance Notes When Applying For A Firearm Certificate

8. Prohibited Weapons and Ammunition

1. Handguns, defined as having a barrel length of less than 30 centimeters or is less than 60 centimeters overall. There are exemptions if it is a trophy of war, of historic interest, used for starting races, humane killing or signaling. Smooth bore pistols chambered for .410 and 9mm cartridges are also exempt.

Web Page : http://www.northyorkshire.police.uk/firearms-firearms.asp


So they do have Long Barreled Hand Guns in the UK.

Question ? how can a Judge/Superintendent be allowed (in the Donegal case) quote and make reference to UK law ? Is what they have stated untrue, should this case not be re heard.

rrpc

Sikamick wrote: »

1. Handguns, defined as having a barrel length of less than 30 centimeters or is less than 60 centimeters overall. There are exemptions if it is a trophy of war, of historic interest, used for starting races, humane killing or signaling. Smooth bore pistols chambered for .410 and 9mm cartridges are also exempt.

Web Page : http://www.northyorkshire.police.uk/firearms-firearms.asp


So they do have Long Barreled Hand Guns in the UK.

Question ? how can a Judge/Superintendent be allowed (in the Donegal case) quote and make reference to UK law when what they have stated is untrue, should this case not be re heard.

But they're not defined as handguns Mick. They have a barrel in excess of 30cm and their overall length is greater than 60cm. That's about 2 foot long overall.

The legal definition in the UK is that anything les than those dimensions is a handgun, anything more is not. A definition had to be formed in law in order to describe what was to be banned.

Sikamick

rrpc ,I did not Define them as Hand Guns, this is what is stated on the UK Police Website. Please view the website. (Sikamick: A hand gun is a hand gun is a hand gun.) and if they are not hand guns what are they, they are held in the hand and don't have a butt stock. They are advertised by firearms dealers in the UK as Long Barrelled Hand Guns.



8. Prohibited Weapons and Ammunition

1. Handguns, defined as having a barrel length of less than 30 centimeters or is less than 60 centimeters overall. There are exemptions if it is a trophy of war, of historic interest, used for starting races, humane killing or signaling. Smooth bore pistols chambered for .410 and 9mm cartridges are also exempt.

chem

Sikamick wrote: »

rrpc
8. Prohibited Weapons and Ammunition

1. Handguns, defined as having a barrel length of less than 30 centimeters or is less than 60 centimeters overall. There are exemptions if it is a trophy of war, of historic interest, used for starting races, humane killing or signaling. Smooth bore pistols chambered for .410 and 9mm cartridges are also exempt.

I did hear of one guy from kent who was selling war trophy pistols. Two undercover police men posed as buyers and arrested him. He was doing notting that the law didnt allow but it still ment he was draged infront of the high court. Found not guilty in the end.

Grizzly 45

chem wrote: »

I did hear of one guy from kent who was selling war trophy pistols. Two undercover police men posed as buyers and arrested him. He was doing notting that the law didnt allow but it still ment he was draged infront of the high court. Found not guilty in the end.

Not to mind that he was a very eccentric chacter as well.He appeared at his trial in an Elvis outfit.:eek:[.Not that IMO there is anything wrong with being eccentric or dressing like Elvis.It makes a change to see some form of individualism in the world of Norms these days.]Trouble is;it marked him out for the attention of Mr Plod:rolleyes:.Weirdo and loner who deals in firearms,must be dodgey..See if he can be fitted up then.Good for the ol publicity that.
Moral of the story here is maybe;Dont look anyway eccentric when being involved with firearms,as it will proably get you unwelcome attention from the Boys in blue and media.
On the positive side,that fellow is now in recipt of quite substantial damages,courtsey of her majestys taxpayers.And HM Met police force has large amount of egg on their face.:rolleyes:

Traumadoc

Sikamick wrote: »

Firearms Licensing
Application for a Firearm Certificate

The 'Application for a Firearm Certificate' form and 'Reference Form' are available by contacting the Firearms Licensing Department.

You can download a full Firearms Application Pack by clicking here. The forms are available individually at the bottom of the page.

Return all completed forms to:

The Police Firearms Licensing Department
North Yorkshire Police
Police Headquarters
Newby Wiske Hall
Northallerton
North Yorkshire,
DL7 9HA

Guidance Notes When Applying For A Firearm Certificate

8. Prohibited Weapons and Ammunition

1. Handguns, defined as having a barrel length of less than 30 centimeters or is less than 60 centimeters overall. There are exemptions if it is a trophy of war, of historic interest, used for starting races, humane killing or signaling. Smooth bore pistols chambered for .410 and 9mm cartridges are also exempt.

Web Page : http://www.northyorkshire.police.uk/firearms-firearms.asp


So they do have Long Barreled Hand Guns in the UK.

Question ? how can a Judge/Superintendent be allowed (in the Donegal case) quote and make reference to UK law ? Is what they have stated untrue, should this case not be re heard.

Why is a judge "quoting" British law? Is the Irish system subservient?

Grizzly 45

Cos it is called moving the ol goal posts TD,I prefer to call it hyprocrisy.THEY can quote the "well, look what happens in the USA,GB,the North Pole:rolleyes:",arguement to justify their decisions and arguement.
[Yet it is amazing how ignorant those are on what exactly the firearms laws are in the USA or their country of choice.] Yet if WE use it to try and justifty a point.We are told laws outside Ireland are not revelant!
OTOH,it wont stand the Govt case any good quoting incidents and laws outside their juristiction that have no revelance to an Irish situation.

I would hope we are not still kowtowing to the UK.But then again....