Electronic Music Production partime course

Paulj

Hi,
I'm considering doing the Electronic Music Production course at the Sound Training Centre in Temple Bar and was just wondering if any of you have done it? What did ye think of it? Is it worth doing?

The course is 15 weeks long, with 3 hours each week on a tuesday or wednesday and costs about 1000e. They work with Reason and some other tools i believe.

Thanks in advance.

tweeky

Plenty of tools...........(joke)

For 1000€ i would buy the program, research it on the web, look at some youtube tips maybe buy a book and listen to a lot of records/CD's/mp3's etc. and work it out for yourself.

jtsuited

tweeky wrote: »

Plenty of tools...........(joke)

For 1000€ i would buy the program, research it on the web, look at some youtube tips maybe buy a book and listen to a lot of records/CD's/mp3's etc. and work it out for yourself.

+1.
You won't learn anything you can't figure out yourself.

seannash

yep,save your money and buy some software.it really wont take you that long to get to grips with it.
jesus,id almost teach one my self if thats the kind of money there offering:D

anaracdigiteach

Hi,
I wholeheartedly agree with all of the above.Save your money and invest in your set up.Then just get stuck in and you'll be thankfull you did.
The web is a great resource for learning all types of music (and other) technology these days.Getting a book is a great help too and won't cost you €1000!When you come across something you don't quite understand just google/youtube it and you'll most likely find help in abundance!
Good luck!

jiltloop

i did the sound engineering and music technology course there a good few years back, it cost a pretty penny but i enjoyed every minute of it. back then i didn't have a clue and i wanted to find out more about making my own electronic music. it helped me figure what i was and wasn't interested in technology and recording wise (i.e really interested in synthesis but not very interested in recording other people's work). the teachers there were great and i found the music production side of it great, but when i look back and think was the course worth the money i'm thinking i would rather have bought the software and equipment and i could have figured it out myself. the reason why i have no regrets and i'm glad i did the course is because the place is a venue also, i got to go on stage and showcase my stuff in front of a good crowd of people.
so in short if you do the course it will give you a head start with the programs and general understanding of synthesis and sound, but if you have enough interest in the subject matter you could easily figure it out for yourself. if you do decide to do it i would advice that you use any contacts you get or any facilities on offer as much as you can cos thats one of the big regrets i have.

Gel

I'm going to stick my big foot in it again...and probably get slated but anyway!
There seems to be a general opinion that doing a training course in Sound Engineering or Music Technology is a total waste of time and money! I won't repeat my points already placed on other posts but I just want to make a point or two.
You can get all the software you want but if you really want to get the most from it technically and creatively you need to understand the technology and theory behind it. This cannot be learned easily from a book or You Tube video because if you are unclear on any aspect you have no one on-hand to explain or demonstrate in order to clarify. Sure you'll pick it up somehow, somewhere eventually but it will take a lot longer. Also by the time and if you've got the understanding you need, in your frustration you will probably have wasted much more than a course fee on bits of gear and software that you could have avoided if someone had set you right in the first place. What I'm getting at is that every year I get students who have bought loads of fiddly bits of kit and maybe got Cubase, Reason etc. and they're frustrated because they can't get the results they want. The typical comment is " I just can't get it to sound good! I can mess with the stuff but I don't know what I'm doing. What good is the subtractor synth, the mixer, compressor, reverb, etc. etc. if you don't understand how a real processor works or you don't understand sound variables or synthesis techniques. It really all goes back to the humble sine wave!! A course can teach you from the ground up so you can learn faster to a deeper level so you can really understand the tools needed to create good quality recordings and hopefully end up putting together some good quality music.
Finally, regarding sound training courses can I just add...
Anyone can learn the following themselves BUT
If you want to drive on the road legally you have to do driving lessons!
If you want to be an electrician, plumber or a carpenter you have to do an apprenticeship which also involves attending college.
Why does it seem that a Sound Engineer shouldn't have to have a qualification!! Would you want a qualified mechanic to fix your car or some bloke you met in the pub that said he picked it up along the way?
Take even Health & Safety. If a venue hires an engineer who has no training in Health & Safety (as you will learn on any decent Sound training course and this guy decides to undo the earths in the mains plugs and then he fries someone...where would that leave the venue when they get sued!!
One of my former students did an interview for a position at the Waterfront in Belfast (which he got BTW). The first thing he was asked was about Health & Safety and what Sound Engineering certification he had!!
If you aren't willing to invest some money in a good education in Sound Or Music Technology you probably aren't as passionate about it as you thought!

Just a few thoughts I'm rabbiting on now... Thanks for listening!

studiorat

€1,000 is pretty pricey just to get started on reason and a daw, and 15 weeks is quite a bit of time probably too much at first.

I take it that you just wanna do this at home for your own music like? Or are you set on becoming a "sound engineer" ?

dav nagle

Gel wrote: »

I'm going to stick my big foot in it again...and probably get slated but anyway!
There seems to be a general opinion that doing a training course in Sound Engineering or Music Technology is a total waste of time and money! I won't repeat my points already placed on other posts but I just want to make a point or two.
You can get all the software you want but if you really want to get the most from it technically and creatively you need to understand the technology and theory behind it. This cannot be learned easily from a book or You Tube video because if you are unclear on any aspect you have no one on-hand to explain or demonstrate in order to clarify. Sure you'll pick it up somehow, somewhere eventually but it will take a lot longer. Also by the time and if you've got the understanding you need, in your frustration you will probably have wasted much more than a course fee on bits of gear and software that you could have avoided if someone had set you right in the first place. What I'm getting at is that every year I get students who have bought loads of fiddly bits of kit and maybe got Cubase, Reason etc. and they're frustrated because they can't get the results they want. The typical comment is " I just can't get it to sound good! I can mess with the stuff but I don't know what I'm doing. What good is the subtractor synth, the mixer, compressor, reverb, etc. etc. if you don't understand how a real processor works or you don't understand sound variables or synthesis techniques. It really all goes back to the humble sine wave!! A course can teach you from the ground up so you can learn faster to a deeper level so you can really understand the tools needed to create good quality recordings and hopefully end up putting together some good quality music.
Finally, regarding sound training courses can I just add...
Anyone can learn the following themselves BUT
If you want to drive on the road legally you have to do driving lessons!
If you want to be an electrician, plumber or a carpenter you have to do an apprenticeship which also involves attending college.
Why does it seem that a Sound Engineer shouldn't have to have a qualification!! Would you want a qualified mechanic to fix your car or some bloke you met in the pub that said he picked it up along the way?
Take even Health & Safety. If a venue hires an engineer who has no training in Health & Safety (as you will learn on any decent Sound training course and this guy decides to undo the earths in the mains plugs and then he fries someone...where would that leave the venue when they get sued!!
One of my former students did an interview for a position at the Waterfront in Belfast (which he got BTW). The first thing he was asked was about Health & Safety and what Sound Engineering certification he had!!
If you aren't willing to invest some money in a good education in Sound Or Music Technology you probably aren't as passionate about it as you thought!

Just a few thoughts I'm rabbiting on now... Thanks for listening!

How is it going Gel,

I disagree. I have worked very hard over the last 6 years to develop my own brand name, logo and recording studio and from what I have learnt so far well it has been from boards, work experience, recording real clients, experimentation, sitting in on sessions, making friends with engineers and audiophiles etc.....questions questions and more questions. So had I spent my cash on education I would know allot of information but I would not be practicing this information in the real world.

Friend of mine works in a very professional well known studio in town and he got the job because his brother worked there and put in a word. It's clearly a case sometimes of who you know in Dublin anyway, he had no qualification.

I take your point that a qualification will get you an interview with a top company such as post production or television but very unlikely in a recording studio.

One can understand everything about waves and sound but without good equipment and plenty of practice and I mean every hour they have free it is useless. You can't reference what you are hearing in a mix to knowledge it must be practiced in real time.

When one has a client the pressure to achieve results is when the real you as an engineer shines through so therefore mixing in a college facility isn't real.

Knowledge is power and college offers that but power is useless unless you have a way to yield it in real time.

Walk into Vicar ST and ask any of the top engineers who free lance there and they will tell you, they barely touched a desk in their college days and that experience is everything. Pressure is everything. Believing is everything. So I have clients returning to me now so I must be on the right track.

I would also like to add that I am also waffling on

PaulBrewer

Gel wrote: »

I
Why does it seem that a Sound Engineer shouldn't have to have a qualification!!

I think Gel has a point as do some other posters who disagree with him.

In an ideal world a Sound Engineering Qualification WOULD mean that you're a sound engineer!

However, wheter that's the case is a very moot point.


Mammy and Johnny think a Recording Qualification IS all that's needed and why shouldn't they ? ... it works if you're a Garda or a Solicitor or an Electrician so why should recording be different?


However that's not the case with Recording Education, or so it would seem.

We've all come across guys who have the piece of paper but who still point the mic the wrong way or deafen the singer with headphones or whatever ( or quote Sound on Sound as the Authority on all matters , that last bit is a wee personal rant!).
They've done their course, but still know very little.

So if courses produce people who aren't qualified for the job it's of little surprise that people who are 'qualified' i.e. the ones who do it for a living don't take them seriously and so the cycle continues.

In my day job I often come across some of these courses - for every one 'good' tutor I meet there's 5 to whom I couldn't confidently give the job of posting a letter - don't mind getting drum mics in phase!
I've had tutors play me stuff they're proud of that I'd be embarrrased to play to MYSELF if I recorded it, never mind anyone else!

These are lads who are essentially hobbyists - give them 2 songs to record in a day and watch them melt. This is the CORE of the problem. Students can't be blamed for what they're not being taught.

Unless courses and teaching represent the real world Gel and his like will be making posts such as he has until the end of time .... or at least til the end of the NS10s time!

However all is not lost, I've never heard a bad thing about Poppyhill and our very own StudioRat and JJV often don the Mortar Boards and Capes to enlighten those who care to listen, both men of some experience.

But that trajectory must be maintained - courses must be up to date as must the tutors. Tape Splicing ISN'T really a skill worth developing for the average 19 year old, in my opinion.

Perhaps Audio teaching should be closer to an apprenticeship? i.e. in order for you to 'Qualify' you have to prove your mettle on the job - as the above mentioned Electrician.

Or better still we should have an Audio Templemore, like the Gardai ... all the little engineers on parade with their white gloves - Jaysus, I could be onto something!

dav nagle

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I think Gel has a point as do some other posters who disagree with him.

In an ideal world a Sound Engineering Qualification WOULD mean that you're a sound engineer!

However, wheter that's the case is a very moot point.


Mammy and Johnny think a Recording Qualification IS all that's needed and why shouldn't they ? ... it works if you're a Garda or a Solicitor or an Electrician so why should recording be different?


However that's not the case with Recording Education, or so it would seem.

We've all come across guys who have the piece of paper but who still point the mic the wrong way or deafen the singer with headphones or whatever ( or quote Sound on Sound as the Authority on all matters , that last bit is a wee personal rant!).
They've done their course, but still know very little.

So if courses produce people who aren't qualified for the job it's of little surprise that people who are 'qualified' i.e. the ones who do it for a living don't take them seriously and so the cycle continues.

In my day job I often come across some of these courses - for every one 'good' tutor I meet there's 5 to whom I couldn't confidently give the job of posting a letter - don't mind getting drum mics in phase!
I've had tutors play me stuff they're proud of that I'd be embarrrased to play to MYSELF if I recorded it, never mind anyone else!

These are lads who are essentially hobbyists - give them 2 songs to record in a day and watch them melt. This is the CORE of the problem. Students can't be blamed for what they're not being taught.

Unless courses and teaching represent the real world Gel and his like will be making posts such as he has until the end of time .... or at least til the end of the NS10s time!

However all is not lost, I've never heard a bad thing about Poppyhill and our very own StudioRat and JJV often don the Mortar Boards and Capes to enlighten those who care to listen, both men of some experience.

But that trajectory must be maintained - courses must be up to date as must the tutors. Tape Splicing ISN'T really a skill worth developing for the average 19 year old, in my opinion.

Perhaps Audio teaching should be closer to an apprenticeship? i.e. in order for you to 'Qualify' you have to prove your mettle on the job - as the above mentioned Electrician.

Or better still we should have an Audio Templemore, like the Gardai ... all the little engineers on parade with their white gloves - Jaysus, I could be onto something!

+5

I totally agree, it should be an apprenticeship, people in that field take on young guys who are keen and hard working, thats the way it should be and when I eventually run my own production studio I will weed out the fakes and find someone who will appreciate what he/she is learning and taking on. College is too expensive, my parents couldn't afford it for me, they wanted me to work and get on with my day job but they lent me money to buy gear and its the best thing they could have done for me.

danjokill

I'm doing this in reverse i guess or maybe the right way........ I have a studio a fairly ok one ....... although some on my retro Analogue gear and tapey stuff may not be to the taste of some of you guys, I like it...... I built it from the ground up i remember the first day standing at the end of the garden with a spade in my hand thinking.....this is what i want.....and nothing was going to stop me. It has cost me a lot (money ... women ..... a life (No Joke) but I have reached the point where i am happy with the studio setup (sure i'd love this and that) but i'm not learning anymore or at least not at the rate i was before ........ I have enrolled in a sound engineering course starting in September ....... the main reason is to fill in the blanks..... get feedback ...... interact with professionals ....... and access equipment which under normal conditions I wouldn't be able to. I agree with the yes and no campaigners in this thread but learning gear or software is not that hard ...... teaching your ears is!!!! Also using a DAW mixer at home or sitting behind a SSL? I’d pay the fee for that alone.