Green Diesel

j1smithy

I was up and about early one of the days during the week, filling the car with diesel, set me back €87 for the full tank. As I was leaving the station, I noticed a man in a large jeep filling his tank with green diesel (for those that don't know chemically green diesel is the same as white except for the dye). Considering the crackdown on illegal fuel of late, I was wondering how common is this? Would any boardsies shamelessly fill their tank on a fourcourt with green diesel, of more covertly out of a drum at home?

Sizzler

If this was him then its OK.

http://www.izzyoz.com/funnies/21-farmer.jpg

Run_to_da_hills

That person could be be in the building trade and could be filling a seperate tank for plant equipment. I could see new laws being passed requiring forecourts to have 24H CCTV placed over green diesel pumps.

larryone

Might have to register to avail of it, etc...
System that restricts it to certain reg plates that have been approved.
Possible to restrict it a few ways I suppose.
I looked into getting heated fuel lines and new injectors so I could start using veg oil, but I haven't worked out all the numbers yet. I'd guess I've done 20 Dublin Cork trips this year so far - but do I want to spend that much money modding a 12 year old car?
Urlingford - 1.37.8 per litre last time I filled up there.

I wouldn't buy green diesel.

Sherifu

I've never had a diesel but if I did get one I wouldn't risk filling it with green.

Wompa1

Diesel cars can use green diesel but are not supposed to, its is partly subsidised for farming. I worked in a Statoil when I was younger and asshole Taxi drivers would come in and fill up with Green Diesel. It is against the law and you get pretty heavily fined if you get caught at a checkpoint for it

jester77

I can see it now... Ah sure it's only a colour boss!

larryone

I've only ever seen one checkpoint where they were looking at the diesel.
You're highly unlikely to get caught, but I'm still never going to risk it.

445279.ie

There's a maximum fine of €3k so I won't be risking it either

Captain Slow IRL

j1smithy wrote: »

for those that don't know chemically green diesel is the same as white except for the dye

It lacks some of the lubricating additives in regular diesel - can damage modern (common rail diesel) cars.

If I had an old mondeo or some piece of crap diesel, I'd use it for on the back-roads.

Scawgeen

If you see two vehicles stopped on the side of the road and the one behind has the boot door open and a lady or a gentleman takes a strange piece of aparatus and approaches the other vehicle, chances are it's the customs dipping for red diesel. You may have seen this a hundred times and thought some plonker ran out of petrol or diesel.

Run_to_da_hills

Scawgeen wrote: »

If you see two vehicles stopped on the side of the road and the one behind has the boot door open and a lady or a gentleman takes a strange piece of aparatus and approaches the other vehicle, chances are it's the customs dipping for red diesel. You may have seen this a hundred times and thought some plonker ran out of petrol or diesel.

You would also see these guys accompanied by members of An Garda Siochain.

445279.ie

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

You would also see these guys accompanied by members of An Garda Siochain.

Not always, I've seen them working on their own.

Blisterman

I've driven diesel cars and I've never heard of green diesel in my life. Does it exist in Dublin?

Also, how do they know which cars are diesel, so they can check them? Do they check every car?

445279.ie

Blisterman wrote: »

I've driven diesel cars and I've never heard of green diesel in my life. Does it exist in Dublin?

Also, how do they know which cars are diesel, so they can check them? Do they check every car?

you'd know by the sound of the engine, having said that I drive a diesal car and they've waved me on. Think they (usually) only check the trucks.

Even though, I wouldn't risk it for a biscuit

partyatmygaff

i've a diesel, heard of green diesel and as of yet have never had my car's diesel checked

maybe its more of a culchie thing?

taidghbaby

does green diesel not give off a load more smoke than normal stuff, therefore only vehicles that have loadsa smoke coming out of them are stopped....hence non rule breakers dont get stopped!!

mookishboy

I have been using agri for 3 years now and have never been dipped.

weeder

larryone wrote: »

Might have to register to avail of it, etc...
System that restricts it to certain reg plates that have been approved.
Possible to restrict it a few ways I suppose.
I looked into getting heated fuel lines and new injectors so I could start using veg oil, but I haven't worked out all the numbers yet. I'd guess I've done 20 Dublin Cork trips this year so far - but do I want to spend that much money modding a 12 year old car?
Urlingford - 1.37.8 per litre last time I filled up there.

I wouldn't buy green diesel.

they did that on mythbusters and an unmodified diesel engine ran on used cookin oil after filtration

Matt Santos

Captain Slow IRL wrote: »

It lacks some of the lubricating additives in regular diesel - can damage modern (common rail diesel) cars.

If I had an old mondeo or some piece of crap diesel, I'd use it for on the back-roads.

Incorrect me ould flower!!
Green Diesel comes into the country as White Diesel and the dye is added. Its like a little bar of soap that converts thousands of gallons at the one time. Perfectly harmless to the engine but the dye tends to show a blacker exhaust emmision. Would be found out at an NCT test.

cournioni

j1smithy wrote: »

I was up and about early one of the days during the week, filling the car with diesel, set me back €87 for the full tank. As I was leaving the station, I noticed a man in a large jeep filling his tank with green diesel (for those that don't know chemically green diesel is the same as white except for the dye). Considering the crackdown on illegal fuel of late, I was wondering how common is this? Would any boardsies shamelessly fill their tank on a fourcourt with green diesel, of more covertly out of a drum at home?

I work in a Diesel Engineering work shop and it is seen quite often in some of the samples that are sent into us from the car dealers. People resorting to mixing their own Biofuel is the worst thing I've come across though. Made a right job of their pump and injectors, and possibly the engine.

zuroph

i know of a family that have been running their jeep and some other vehicles on cooking oil without any modification for a number of years now, with now problems.

miceal

This is a common practice up by the border.

People can even get a mix of red and green that when dipped comes out white. So if you are dipped no worries it come out white.

For those that don't know in the North instead of a green dye they use red.

Only seen the customs out once and they didn't seem to be dipping just collecting some northern reg cars.

stephen ocad

Went through a Customs Chechpoint in dundalk on Monday evening at 5.50pm (07/07/08), they were dipping cars, vans, Jeeps and lorries for Green Diesel, Seems as though they cought a lot of people as well, All fined €700 for the first offence of €3000 for second time, With the price of diesel gone through the roof, a lot to people are using green on a regular basis

annie19

hey. i got pulled by customs in Mayo on Monday. Its toooooooooo risky if u ask me but it is very tempting!

FocusIreland

i never got a diesel car or jeep in my life but heard of the green diesel alright. and i knew someone using the green diesel instead the normal one and never been checked on the road. also i know how to make it looks in normal colour. but it cost lots more than u pay for the normal diesel. so dont even ask me, not worth it unless u r from IRA.
i lied for a part of my words above. u guess which part? of course i ll not give any answer.

j1smithy

There is a rumour that you can mix the red and green to get white, afaik, this isn't true, its just a front for washed diesel (which contains sulphuric acid and will eat your engine)

As for Biodiesel I also believe the fuel lines have to be modified as biodiesel can dissolve certain rubber components such as hoses and seals. In addition it has a higher waxing point than mineral diesel, so isn't suitable in winter. Also for people using biodiesel you make yourself, you have to pay fuel duty on it too. If you're dipped you're in trouble if it isn't paid.

As for green diesel being of inferior quality to white, I don't think thats true, Agri vehicles have quite sophisticated systems and engine management nowadays, we've come a long way from the Massey 165!

To go back to topic, there was one occasion about 18 months ago, where I was driving someone elses car, the owner was a passenger. Just as we were coming up to a customs checkpoint (what were the chances, they are so rare) he informs me that he filled the tank with green that morning. Luckly enough they waved us through. Anyway do you think its justified to cheat the system with the high price now charged? I remember I was pretty annoyed when I saw that man filling the green straight to the tank, I did nothing though.

AntiRip

In all the stations I've been to the green diesel pumps had a lock on them so you can't use it. A few weeks ago I went to get green diesel for a mini digger that was doing some work on my gardens and it cost 94.5cpl. I did feel tempted as I have a diesel carvan I probably will risk it though if it passes the e1.50/e1.60cpl...maybe :P

larryone

weeder wrote: »

they did that on mythbusters and an unmodified diesel engine ran on used cookin oil after filtration

Oh it will run alright, and some people do a 50/50 mix of veg oil and diesel, but the long term effects arent good.
Veg oil is thicker, so you dont get a good spray from the injection.
Hence poorer combustion, and eventually engine damage.

I could run on it right now, but the savings wouldn't offset the cost of replacing the engine after a couple of years.

Heated fuel lines will make the veg oil less viscous, so you get a better spray into the cylinder. If you replace the injectors altogether then you're engine will be perfectly suited to it, and so there wont be any long term damage.
The mod lets you run on normal diesel, biodiesel, or veg oil.

I might have to re-do the numbers to see if it'll be worth it if prices go up again...

FocusIreland

j1smithy wrote: »

There is a rumour that you can mix the red and green to get white, afaik, this isn't true.

u r right, its not the right way can make the green to normal. the way to make it normal is ... wahaha. i m not telling ya.:D

larryone

j1smithy wrote: »

As for Biodiesel I also believe the fuel lines have to be modified as biodiesel can dissolve certain rubber components such as hoses and seals. In addition it has a higher waxing point than mineral diesel, so isn't suitable in winter. Also for people using biodiesel you make yourself, you have to pay fuel duty on it too. If you're dipped you're in trouble if it isn't paid.

For veg oil it's recommended to mod the fuel lines. Biodiesel is different.
VW engines made after '99 are certified to run unmodified on 99% Biodiesel. The 1% petrodiesel is added to ensure anti-fungal effects.
Biodiesel is fine in winter months, it's the veg oil that;s a problem there.
I've seen complicated solutions involving two tanks, switching fuel lines after the engine is at the right heat, etc...
The concern with rubber being effected by the biodiesel is with older cars produced in the 80s and before. The rubber used for sealing in modern vehicles is not effected.

Tigger

annie19 wrote: »

hey. i got pulled by customs in Mayo on Monday. Its toooooooooo risky if u ask me but it is very tempting!

they were in sligo on wednesday

j1smithy

larryone wrote: »

For veg oil it's recommended to mod the fuel lines. Biodiesel is different.
VW engines made after '99 are certified to run unmodified on 99% Biodiesel. The 1% petrodiesel is added to ensure anti-fungal effects.
Biodiesel is fine in winter months, it's the veg oil that;s a problem there.
I've seen complicated solutions involving two tanks, switching fuel lines after the engine is at the right heat, etc...
The concern with rubber being effected by the biodiesel is with older cars produced in the 80s and before. The rubber used for sealing in modern vehicles is not effected.

Are you sure about that and VW engines? I have a new model passat and theres a sticker on the fuel tank that says "Do not use Biodiesel"

larryone

j1smithy wrote: »

Are you sure about that and VW engines? I have a new model passat and theres a sticker on the fuel tank that says "Do not use Biodiesel"

Just double-checked my sources. I got it wrong. They recommend only 5% biodiesel. So that's a 95% pertodiesel mix. Damn.
I was certain I had read differently...

Duiske

larryone wrote: »

I've only ever seen one checkpoint where they were looking at the diesel.
You're highly unlikely to get caught, but I'm still never going to risk it.

In over 10yrs of driving vans I was only stopped once up to last march. Since then I have been stopped and fuel tested by customs 3 times, all in the carlow/kilkenny area.

larryone

j1smithy wrote: »

Are you sure about that and VW engines? I have a new model passat and theres a sticker on the fuel tank that says "Do not use Biodiesel"

I double-checked again, various websites say that VW Germany will not consider it a breach of warranty if you use 100% biodiesel that meets the German standards (only available in Germany). That said, I couldn't get the info from any official vw sites...
Might be on vw.de in German

angelfire9

They were on the Tulla Road in Ennis last night 09/07/2008 dipping every commercial vehicle that passed, several Non Irish Reg's as well! If your stupid enough to do it you deserve to get caught, for one i know Petrol is cheaper than diesel but for years it wasn't and we just had to put up with it!

Evil Phil

I've seen two checkpoints in dublin 12 in recent months. I drive a desiel and they didn't stop me but they were dipping non-commercial vehicles as well. When they dip they also test for sulphides in the fuel to see if its been laundered.

Frank the Manc

why would you be stupid to do it?even if you get caught once a year, youre still up money.

the only reason that there is a revival in customs dipping is that they are trying to squeeze every bit of money out of us.

youre goin to see quite a lot of things like this goin on in the next few months, along with an increase in taxes and the introduction of more stealth taxes.

the fishing and haulage idustry are under extreme pressure at the moment, mostly due to the speculative nature of oil traders, playing on peoples fears. this, in conjunction with an extremely high VAT rate is cruicifying those who can absorb it the least.

fair play to anyone who takes the chance and more power to them.

Blisterman

Why is green diesel cheaper anyway?
If it's the same basic product, shouldn't everyone pay the same for it, regardless of use?

Terry

Just grow some rapeseed in your back garden.

Terry

FocusIreland wrote: »

i never got a diesel car or jeep in my life but heard of the green diesel alright. and i knew someone using the green diesel instead the normal one and never been checked on the road. also i know how to make it looks in normal colour. but it cost lots more than u pay for the normal diesel. so dont even ask me, not worth it unless u r from IRA.
i lied for a part of my words above. u guess which part? of course i ll not give any answer.

Hi.
I have no idea what you said there.
Could you please refrain from using text speak.
Thanks.

35notout

Blisterman Why is green diesel cheaper anyway?
If it's the same basic product, shouldn't everyone pay the same for it, regardless of use?

Tax my man, tax! Yet another example of our taxes!

snowman707

Captain Slow IRL wrote: »

It lacks some of the lubricating additives in regular diesel - can damage modern (common rail diesel) cars.

.

No. #

same diesel only a dye added

snowman707

taidghbaby wrote: »

does green diesel not give off a load more smoke than normal stuff, therefore only vehicles that have loadsa smoke coming out of them are stopped....hence non rule breakers dont get stopped!!

No it doesn't

snowman707

j1smithy wrote: »

There is a rumour that you can mix the red and green to get white, afaik, this isn't true, its just a front for washed diesel (which contains sulphuric acid and will eat your engine)

A.

RED + Green = Black

Blisterman

35notout wrote: »

Blisterman Why is green diesel cheaper anyway?
If it's the same basic product, shouldn't everyone pay the same for it, regardless of use?

Tax my man, tax! Yet another example of our taxes!

I meant, why is there less tax on green diesel?

mozil

green or agricultural diesel is subsidized for farmers by the state I think its about 95c a litre.

Just woundering if you topped up your tank with green diesel would it show if you were dipped.if say the max you used was 40% green diesel

Tigger

mozil wrote: »

green or agricultural diesel is subsidized for farmers by the state I think its about 95c a litre.

Just woundering if you topped up your tank with green diesel would it show if you were dipped.if say the max you used was 40% green diesel

ifv you put 1 litre of green and 60 of white it wouuld look green

PaulKK

Tigger wrote: »

ifv you put 1 litre of green and 60 of white it wouuld look green

Also the dye stays in your tank for approx 6 months, so even if you've stopped using it it will still show up for some time later. It is possible that the fuel filter may have to be changed also to stop the green showing up later.

I was under the impression that they don't even have to dip you now that customs have some sort of sensor for the exhaust? I am open to correction though.


Green diesel is for work purposes powering generators, tractors, diggers etc etc, so it has a lower rate of duty on it.

mrgaa1

what should happen is that there should be only the one colour of diesel. The price is set high and those registered for VAT etc... could then claim back the difference. This would remove the smuggling, bad diesel etc.. in one swoop and should ensure that the price of diesel would go down as the revenue would get more money.

Green or Red diesel is exactly the same - one is south of the border - one is north. Tractors that are on the road are supposed to use white ( if this is their primary function e.g. removing spoil etc.. ) - not green/red.