Would like to breed my Westie...

Cornie

Hi all,
I have a westie who will be 5 years old in October. I have decided to let her have a litter of pups before we neuter her but have no idea where to start.... I have been on the IKC website and there's no info on breeding. What I would like to know is
1) How do you go about tracking down a good father for the puppies
2) Are stud fees expensive
3) Is there any special care required for the expectant mother

She is my first pet and I'm really clueless! I've had her since she was 8 weeks and I'm starting to feel that she is missing out not getting the chance to be a mummy!!

I'm in the Sligo area, but she came from Kilbeggan. I presume that I would have to make sure that any prospective father came from a different area....:o

Glowing

Cornie wrote: »

She is my first pet and I'm really clueless! I've had her since she was 8 weeks and I'm starting to feel that she is missing out not getting the chance to be a mummy!!

I know this is probably not what you want to hear - but this is absolutely NOT the reason you should breed your bitch. And if you really are clueless, please don't do it!!! There are enough pups out there with health problems/genetic issues etc, without adding more to the mix. Have you thought about the cost? The time you'll need to spend taking care of the pups? What you'll do if you can't get rid of them all?

Killme00

Cornie wrote: »

Hi all,
I have a westie who will be 5 years old in October. I have decided to let her have a litter of pups before we neuter her but have no idea where to start.... I have been on the IKC website and there's no info on breeding. What I would like to know is
1) How do you go about tracking down a good father for the puppies
2) Are stud fees expensive
3) Is there any special care required for the expectant mother

She is my first pet and I'm really clueless! I've had her since she was 8 weeks and I'm starting to feel that she is missing out not getting the chance to be a mummy!!

I'm in the Sligo area, but she came from Kilbeggan. I presume that I would have to make sure that any prospective father came from a different area....:o

Hi Cornie,

If you are really clueless then i wouldnt recommend breeding her. I think that breeding is best left to experienced breeders who know what they are doing and what to do in the eventuality that something goes wrong.

I would also suggest that if you decide against breeding her (which many here and elsewhere would advise), that you have her spayed. The reasons for spaying are listed here http://www.aspca.org/site/PageServer?pagename=adopt_spayneuter

Please dont be afraid to ask any questions, but please put your pets health and future first when making this decision.

Cornie

Yes, I have thought about the cost, and the posibility of genetic issues. That is exactly what my post is about, to try and find out information on cost and how to avoid genetic issues. These were exactly my questions...


This is not the only reason I want to breed her. I am thinking of getting her neutered, but I want her to have a litter of pups first.

Killme00

Cornie wrote: »

Yes, I have thought about the cost, and the posibility of genetic issues. That is exactly what my post is about, to try and find out information on cost and how to avoid genetic issues. These were exactly my questions...


This is not the only reason I want to breed her. I am thinking of getting her neutered, but I want her to have a litter of pups first.

Hi Cornie,

Your dog wont miss out on anything if she doesnt have a litter ebfore neutering. This is second hand information but i have heard that most bitches reject their first litter anyway and alot of newborn pups die from their mothers mistakes (ie simply rolling over them).

If you list out the reasons that you want to breed her then perhaps we can give you more information.

fatmammycat

Cornie wrote: »

Yes, I have thought about the cost, and the posibility of genetic issues. That is exactly what my post is about, to try and find out information on cost and how to avoid genetic issues. These were exactly my questions...


This is not the only reason I want to breed her. I am thinking of getting her neutered, but I want her to have a litter of pups first.

Why?

Alfasudcrazy

I thought about that too at the start with my female dobie but decided it was not a good idea.

I know I would be too stringent with any prospective purchasers of the pups and probably would end up with 7 dobies instead of the two I now have as I would keep them all.

I think you are risking your dogs health for a perceived notion that she is missing out on something. How can any creature miss anything that they have never experienced?

mary123

Not only would u need a total health check of mum and dad, u would also need to the health of grandparents and greatgrand parents. All this to include heart, hips and eyes.

hadook

Here's a good place to start

I'd especially recommend the Virtual Breeding link - it'll walk you through what to expect and problems you might face. The stories submitted by people who've had serious problems. The costs involved, the risks involved etc.

And some things to consider from another site:

Can I afford the costs involved & do I have the time to rear a litter successfully?

Breeding a litter & caring for Mum & her puppies is expensive and very time consuming. You have to have the funds available for the stud fee, eye testing fee, vet fees (these can be costly particularly if a caesarean section is needed), quality food for Mum & pups once weaned, set up equipment (eg whelping box, bedding, heating, puppy pen), Kennel Club registration fees etc. Bear in mind, if you have a small litter or incur high veterinary expenses, you may make a loss on your litter – breeding puppies is not an easy way to make money unless you cut corners or mass produce pups on a commercial scale as puppy farmers do. Sometimes, it may be necessary to keep puppies for longer than 8 weeks if the right homes are not forthcoming, so you need to be prepared for this & for the extra costs involved in feeding & vaccinating older pups.

If you can bear the financial costs, do you have the time available?
Looking after a Mum with a newborn litter requires round the clock attention initially – it is not something you can do if you work long hours. Once puppies are weaned, the hard work really begins: It is very rewarding raising a litter properly, but it takes countless hours in feeding, cleaning up followed by more feeding & more cleaning up! The breeder must also make the effort to socialise puppies by introducing them to common household noises & letting them meet all different kinds of people, including children, all under careful supervision of course. Time also needs to be spent on vetting potential owners, making sure that your precious puppies only go the most suitable homes – this can be one of the most difficult aspects of breeding a litter as enquirers are not always what they seem when they first make contact with a breeder. Sadly not all enquirers can offer a good home environment for a puppy.

Could I cope if things go wrong?
Whilst it is true that most bitches make good Mums & have trouble free pregnancies, there are also occasions when things do go disastrously wrong. Sometimes caesarean section surgery is required to deliver puppies safely & rarely, a breeder can lose both the bitch & all her puppies. Other problems that could arise include a failure of the bitch to produce milk, meaning her puppies have to be hand-reared (requiring bottle feeding every 2 hours round the clock). The Virtual Breeding website gives a warts ‘n all look at breeding which is well worth a look for the novice breeder.

Can I provide after sales help & advice to any puppy owners who might need it?
A responsible breeder will always be happy to answer questions & provide advice to new puppy owners should they need it. This means having good knowledge on subjects like puppy training & common health issues. A responsible breeder also has a lifetime responsibility to the puppies they produce. This means being prepared to take back one of their puppies (however old he/she might be) for rehoming should the need arise (unfortunately people’s circumstances do change), even if the timing is not convenient for the breeder. Responsible breeders do not “pass the buck” to Breed Rescue or to general Rescue Societies. A breeder must also bear the moral responsibility if any of their puppies develops a hereditary defect. It needs to be noted that sometimes the courts will make breeders legally responsible for such defects – buyers are now much more aware of their consumer rights & puppies are treated like any other “goods” under current consumer legislation.

Westie Rescue is run by a well known behaviourist and I'm sure they'd be able to tell you that Westies in rescue are on the increase. If you do decide to go ahead with breeding from your Westie I'm sure you'd want to do all in your power to make sure that none of your pups end up there.

KhuntChops

Hi Cornie,

To answer your questions
1) In order to track down a sire to be mated with your dam I would advise you to ring the Irish Kennel Club and ask them to put you in touch with reputable breeders of Westhighland Terriers. (Not all breeders will allow there tested dog to be mated to an untested bitch,untested being not checked for Genetic defects)

2) I imagine the stud fees would be somewere around the 500 euro mark for a tested Westie,altho stud fees for the likes of Bull Mastiffs is much more expenise,so it varies!

3)There is alot the expectant mother would need for example you would need to take time off work when the due date comes around about 2 weeks if not more,while shes giving birth they may be complications pehaps a pup will get stuck you have to then rush te mother to a vet,there is always a chance you can lose both mother and pups,you will have to pay for the vet helping your bitch give birth,then theres extra food for the bitch,pups,vaccs,mircochipping,advertisment,there really is an endless list of things you need to read into. You will in no way make money off the pups infact you will more then likey end up out of pocket.

Nobody here is going to advise you to breed your bitch,im asking you if you decide to breed her regardless of what people have told or warned you about on here,please dont go in blind you may end up loosing you pet bitch and a litter of pups,how would you feel then after being warned it may happen nobody will want to see that happen and were only trying to help you,find out as much as you can,perhaps call a westie breeder and ask them for some information,consider everything,your bitch will not feel as shes missing anything because shes never experienced being a mother. If its that your looking for another pup for yourself or family,call the kennel club and buy one better yet adopt one that needs a home.

I hope this has been of some help to you,

KC

andreac

Letting your bitch having a litter of pups because you want her to have one is not a valid reason to breed her. You say she is 5, that is getting on a little bit too.
Firstly you said you are clueless, do you know how difficult it is for your bitch to have a litter? you need to all the necessary health checks that are required for your breed first, have you researched buyers for all the pups? are you willing to put in all the time and effort for your bitch while she has the litter? all the vets fees and visits that goes a long with it?
A dog should only be bred from to enhance the breed, is she a good specimen on the breed? Are you prepared to hand rear all the pups if anything goes wrong?
It can also be very risky for the bitch too, i know of a few experienced breeders who recently lost their bitch and or puppies after she had a litter.
I would personally think very carefully about this and it should def be left to the experienced breeders, its not just as easy as mating her and selling the pups, theres so much more involved.

jenjo23

We spoke about this at my puppy class last night as a couple there were thinking of breeding their pup in a few years (with their aunties dog :mad:)

Anyway, the Vetinary Nurse who conducts the training, said that you should stop breeding a dog when they are 6 years old, if you think about it, when a small dog is 6 years old they are 40 in dog years....humans don't really start having babies when they are 40

Your girl is 36 now, not too old (by todays standards), but even so not a perfect breeding age.

if you were going to do it (which I don't think you should), you'd need to do it ASAP.

You may cause health problems for your dog by leaving it later.

Cornie

Thanks a million for all your responses... from what you say I'm not going to breed her. I wanted to have her spayed but I was told that it was better for her if she had pups before this operation was done... something about the procedure having less of an impact on her temperament and about her being less likely to put on excessive weight afterwards. She is a georgeous wee thing, although she has a very strong personality and genuinely sulks with me when she is in a bad mood, so I certainly would not like her temperament to change for the worse! She is also a bit on the 'tubby' side, although my vet assures me she is perfect, and not overweight. It's just that she is defo heavier than most westies I see around, I would not like to see her gain a lot of weight...

I certainly wasn't thinking of breeding her for profit, just want to do whats best for her. From what ye are saying that would be not breeding her...

Told ye I was clueless, but myself and herself have pottered along nicely for the last 5 years nonetheless!

Ruby Soho

OP, I am a veterinary nurse. Please don't do this on a whim, or because you think your dog is 'missing out'. I'm just finished a horrible shift in my clinic, we admitted a terrier who had been in labour for 14 hours with a black vulval discharge, had passed one dead pup about 8 hours ago and had been straining unproductively since. We had to perform an emergency caesarian section, and removed one huge pup that was blocking the birth canal. Her uterus was so infected (obviously for a long time) that we had to remove it, and the other 4 dead pups inside it. The bitch is critical, and has a temperature of 105F, is on shock rate IV fluids, and it is touch and go as to whether or not she will make it. She is so weak she can't lift her head.
Her owners are devastated, and sitting by the phone. They had researched this, sought out a reputable stud, paid the fees and had the bitch health checked prior to and during the pregnancy. They now have a veterinary bill for over 6ooeuro (so far), a sick dog and no pups to show for it.
Edited to say, just saw the op's replay, good choice! Just enjoy your wee dog as she is!

jenjo23

good on you!

If you're worried about her weight try moving her to a light food after getting her spayed.

That's what my vet recommended for when we get our little guy neutered (as soon as he is 6 months old) as we have a cocker spaniel and they are known to put on weight.

Sigma Force

Glad you choose now not to breed her, whoever told you they need to have a litter first is more clueless. Weight wise it's no diff to us eat less or eat a lower calorie food and plenty of walks my two girls are spayed. One I had done at 6 months and the collie was about 3 when I got her so had her spayed straight away. Neither of them are overweight and their personalities never changed. An unspayed female can be a nightmare when they go into heat with males invading the garden etc.

carwash_2006

I don't know why people say they won't put on weight if they've had pups, it's not going to make any difference to whether they put on weight after they are spayed. Basically a dog that's been altered needs less calories than one that hasn't and if people keep on feeding them the same after they are done yes they will get fat.

Good on you for deciding not to breed from her. Do make sure you go ahead and have her spayed though as the risks of an infected womb in an unaltered bitch are quite high especially as they get older.

KhuntChops

Just seeing this now,thats brilliant news! Your not so clueless afterall and can take good advise

*Sorry to hear about your horrible day RubySoho,i hope the bitch pulls threw,poor owners*

Sigma Force

Probably depends on the breed but I never changed either of my dogs diet after they were spayed and their weight remained stable. The mothers dog is pudgy but that's because she feeds the dog cheap fatty dog food and too many fatty leftovers (despite all my lectures lol).

boomerang

Cornie wrote: »

I wanted to have her spayed but I was told that it was better for her if she had pups before this operation was done... something about the procedure having less of an impact on her temperament and about her being less likely to put on excessive weight afterwards.

Sorry to be blunt but that's a load of cobblers that a certain generation of vets often come out with... :mad:

My dog was spayed at six months, before her first season. My second dog was spayed at about ten or eleven months (later than recommended because she was a rescue found at that age). My dogs are five and six now, and healthy and fit. I don't buy this nonsense about them gaining weight at all! Nor has spaying them changed their personalities. This is nonsense!

Ruby Soho

After a dog is neutered (male or female) their metabolism decreases by about 10%, so, in theory, simply reducing their calorific intake by about 10% should keep him/her in optimum weight, simple really. I have a 5 year old greyhound bitch who was spayed years ago, I have managed to keep her within 1kg of her RACING weight, so yes, folks, it can be done. Just make sure the dog is on a good quality food, and gets enough exercise, which they should anyway.

On that note, OP, please consider getting her spayed ASAP, the longer she is left entire, the greater chance she has of developing pyometra, which can be and often is life-threatening. If she develops this (surprisingly common in entire, middle-aged dogs), she will need to undergo an emergency spay under emergency conditions, with her body in an already weakened, toxaemic state. Its far easier for all concerned if you just get her done now.
If she develops mammary tumours, also common in entire female dogs, she will likely need to be spayed at the time of the tumour removal, as removing the tumours and leaving a female dog intact is a pointless exercise, since the tumours are hormone related, they will just come back and metastasize further. This might not happen until she is 10 or 12 years old, and a spay at that age is unpleasant and dangerous for any dog.