Introduction of University Fees

somethingwitty

I have heard over the past 2 days from a few people that we will have to start paying for our 3rd level education again...
I have looked it up on Google and I cant really find much information about it. I was wondering if anybody here has heard anything and what are your opinions on the issue.

It worries me because I have decided to take a gap year, and I am worried that the fees will have been reintroduced by next year. My parents are certainly not in a financial position to send my brother and I to University the same year, if these fees are brought in.
Personally I believe that education should be free for everyone, and if there's one luxury allowed to society, that should be it.
If it is reintroduced, many families will be hit hard; bye bye college for some people throughout the country. People can argue this next comment as much as they want, but anyone with common sense can predict that fees will segregate, and will cause inequality.

Many would not be comfortable taking out a student loan, why would anyone want to be in debt before even getting a job.
Is this really a result of the 'recession', or is it just an excuse? Is this really a reality we are facing?...

IrishKnight

Not matter how hard times get tution fees will not come back. What people might be telling you is that University Fees are going up. That is the registration fee which is about €800/900 or so.

Cokehead Mother

It probably won't happen anytime soon, and when/if it does, it'll probably be similiar to the UK system, where people only pay something like £3000 a year and that's almost entirely covered by a student loan which doesn't need to be repaid until you reach a certain income level.

I really wouldn't worry about it.

somethingwitty

Only £3000? That is a lot for some people.
And like I said a lot of people wouldnt be comfortable taking out student loans. I know you dont have to pay back until you reach a certain level of income but maybe I dont just wanna go out and have to work anytime soon after I get my degree, same with a lot of people.
Apparently the new costs announced was on the radio the other day... Ireland is one of the most inexpensive countries in which to attend University. Its only a matter of time before the cost goes up.

PrivateEye

Its a terrible idea. My mam grew up on the same road as that Joe Duffy bloke, and apparently when he got accepted into college there was a huge street party to celebrate the first local lad going on to third level education :rolleyes:

The education system is one thing we generally have got right in this country. It's open to people of all classes, which is very important. Fair enough there are some fees, but there are grants out there and compared to other states- education here is far more accesible.

Think it was Yeats who said in the senate we should be able to give the children of the poor as good an education as the children of the rich. That idea has been there since the foundation of the state, it's very important we live up to it. I hate the idea of everyone who goes to college being lumped into some 'upper middle class' social grouping, you can actually get to college in this country regardless of your background- that's something the country can be proud of.

If College became 'exclusive' to the well off, in the long term the counry would suffer with regards employment to give just one example. Bad, bad, bad idea. I worry about public services in the European economy in the long-term, not least when we're a bit short on the yoyos, but I'm sure our education system is safe- because we stand by it so firmly and now the benefits of it.

And eh...bring on college :pac:

Mark200

I heard you can get the registration fee back too from taxes or something?

fh041205

Cokehead Mother wrote: »

It probably won't happen anytime soon, and when/if it does, it'll probably be similiar to the UK system, where people only pay something like £3000 a year and that's almost entirely covered by a student loan which doesn't need to be repaid until you reach a certain income level.

I really wouldn't worry about it.

I went to my bank (Ulster Bank) the other day to ask about student loans and they said the maximum they can loan me over the 4 year course is 4000!!! Thats only 1000 a year. And i'd still have to pay the interest off every month. There is no way you could afford fees with that kind of loan.

KnifeWRENCH

Mark200 wrote: »

I heard you can get the registration fee back too from taxes or something?

If you apply to your Local Authority (i.e. County or City Council) you might get a Higher Education Grant. If you get that, then you can claim back your registration fee.

I doubt fees will be brought back, but if they are it should be on a means-tested basis, whereby people from a working class background won't have to pay as much as one from an upper class background.

karlr42

I'm totally against bringing back fees, many people now in college would not be there if not for the Free Fees scheme, myself included. But it is quite possible that we may see a return of fees- our course director here in college is of the opinion they are almost inevitable.

fh041205

karlr42 wrote: »

I'm totally against bringing back fees, many people now in college would not be there if not for the Free Fees scheme, myself included. But it is quite possible that we may see a return of fees- our course director here in college is of the opinion they are almost inevitable.

I'm in the same situation as you. However I don't see why it would be inevitable. The college still get paid by the government so what difference does it make to them where the tuition fees are coming from. Seems a bit unnecessary to me.

philologos

fh041205 wrote: »

I went to my bank (Ulster Bank) the other day to ask about student loans and they said the maximum they can loan me over the 4 year course is 4000!!! Thats only 1000 a year. And i'd still have to pay the interest off every month. There is no way you could afford fees with that kind of loan.

Yes at present they can only offer you 4,000 as there is no such thing as university fees at the same level as in Britain. If there was the banks would arrange to be able to loan more if they could ensure repayments and had security of some form.

fh041205

Jakkass wrote: »

If there was the banks would arrange to be able to loan more if they could ensure repayments and had security of some form.

Surely thats the definition of a bank loan no??? Personally I thought it was pretty poor because no student could survive on that much a year unless they worked constantly and lived next door to the college.

somethingwitty

It was in the Irish INdependant this morning. Apparently it really only is a matter of time, and possible we will have to pay a bit extra on entering university this year....

IrishKnight

You'll always have to "pay a bit extra" the next year...

KeyLimePie

don't be stupid, i doubt fees are gonna come in within the next year and even then just defer ur palce, problem sorted

PurpleFistMixer

Making people pay for education is ridiculous. I'm not an economist but I'm pretty sure an educated population is a good thing. If they bring back university fees I'm sailing into the Atlantic to start my own country.

karlr42

fh041205 wrote: »

The college still get paid by the government so what difference does it make to them where the tuition fees are coming from.

AFAIK, the colleges claim they're under financial pressure and that if they go back to fees, they can set them to suit themselves. Basically it's because they can make more money from fees than they can from the government, IMHO.

smemon

I think it's just talk with this recession and 3% cutbacks and the rest of it...

Colleges claim they're skinned as it is without having to make cut backs... it's probably an idea that was floated around but i can't see it happening - it would do long term damage to the country if it did and only idiots would back that suggestion.

I'd imagine initial fees will go up from ~€800 to €1k, grant allowances will be cut back or remain static and that'll be that. It's the sensible solution.

A fees system creates social divide and instant hatred and jealousy. It doesn't/won't work in Ireland - everyone has to be even or be seen to be even - it's embedded in our culture.

smemon

smemon wrote: »

I think it's just talk with this recession and 3% cutbacks and the rest of it...

I'm fairly sure that this has been talked about coming back in every year since fees were 'abolished'.

And if fees were to come back in it would be a couple of thousand a year. It costs the exchequer a huge amount to put a person through college, and I'd imagine if fees were reintroduced it would be full fees or not at all (excluding reg fee). Plus €800 - €1000 is what the Registration Fee costs at the moment!

genericgoon

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

Making people pay for education is ridiculous. I'm not an economist but I'm pretty sure an educated population is a good thing. If they bring back university fees I'm sailing into the Atlantic to start my own country.

The Universiteis say that the quality of education is lowered by a lack of funds and point to our mediocre positioning in terms of third level excellence. In search of new funds, Universities are now putting much more money into R&D programmes, some sponsored by private companies, which are more profitable to the University. Of course this pulls away the best individuals away from the teaching areas of University which can only be bad for students.

PurpleFistMixer

But at least this, even if it is slightly diminished, level of education is open to everyone, regardless of the size of their wallet. I certainly think the universities should be properly funded... by the government.

Cokehead Mother

So put a system in place that allows the student to pay the fees...

PurpleFistMixer

... I thought we were already discussing students paying university fees?

Cokehead Mother

"open to everyone regardless of the size of their wallet"

Most 17/18 year olds have about the same earning power, so if paying fees wasn't dependant on parents' income, university would be open to everyone regardless of the size of their wallets upon entry.

I don't think smemon's point about social divide needs to be an issue with the introduction of fees.

Time Magazine

Can anyone give me a good reason why somebody whose parents are on €200,000 a year should have his fees paid by government revenue, for which there are far greater uses?

Overheal

even IF university fees were approved tomorrow, theres no way that it will have an impact for at least another year: hopefully a few.

somethingwitty

Cokehead Mother wrote: »

Most 17/18 year olds have about the same earning power, so if paying fees wasn't dependant on parents' income, university would be open to everyone regardless of the size of their wallets upon entry.

Well, actually, they really dont. Jobs for students are few and far between. Ive been looking for a month and still nothing. People do need help from their parents.

PurpleFistMixer

What is the purpose of basing an argument on an "if" statement? Paying fees is dependent on parents' spending powers. Teenagers are not isolated financial units, provided they have any family to live with/off, which is a fair generalisation to make. Anyway... who has more spending power... someone whose parents are unemployed and all of their self-earned cash goes to paying for rent/food, or someone whose parents are on six-figure salaries and whose only personal expense is new clothes/makeup/discretionary items?

Antithetic: because tax taken from that 200,000 euro income has gone towards paying for fees, just as it has in part gone towards paying for someone else's fees. We're all in this together. If it makes you feel any better, if you've got that kind of income you can probably send your kids to private colleges quite easily, and then you get to pay fees.

SerialComplaint

Antithetic wrote: »

Can anyone give me a good reason why somebody whose parents are on 200,000 a year should have his fees paid by government revenue, for which there are far greater uses?

Because the parent has already paid the State for this service (and all other public services) via taxation .

Time Magazine

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Because the parent has already paid the State for this service (and all other public services) via taxation .

I said a good reason, not one that fails to distinguish the differences between single-payer systems from user-payer systems.

regob

fh041205 wrote: »

I went to my bank (Ulster Bank) the other day to ask about student loans and they said the maximum they can loan me over the 4 year course is 4000!!! Thats only 1000 a year. And i'd still have to pay the interest off every month. There is no way you could afford fees with that kind of loan.

a bank isnt the place where ya wo0uld get your fee loan there is companies who just specialise in this, i.e. they loan ya the fee amount every year, they pay it straight to the uni, your hands wouldnt touch the money.