Rules of the road, two questions please.

VERYinterested

I scoured the book when it arrived last year and could not find a mention of this first one. You are driving through an estate (or any road for that matter) there is a parked car on your side of the road and a car coming in the opposite direction. The blockage is on your side of the road, therefore you must yield to the oncoming car and then overtake the parked car when it is safe to do so. Common sense but most SUV drivers appear to be exempt from this, I wonder why it is not mentioned in the Rules of the Road anymore as it is a pet hate of mine.

Second one is a very dangerous habit that a few people have developed. In the last year the development of Taylor's Lane (Green Route) near the Eden Pub in Rathfarnham, has provided a lovely wide road and there are Bus Lanes provided but not in use. Last night I was in a line of cars all travelling at a reasonable speed, and twice some guy tried to undertake me, despite there being nowhere for him to go if he achieved his manoeuvre, the road narrows in sections, especially as you approach the traffic lights near the entrance to Marlay Park travelling towards Lidl from the Eden Pub, and the bus lane just ends abruptly, it is suicidal to attempt this undertaking and downright dangerous. Anyone know what the story is on this grey area? Some Taxi men use it as a race track also. Similar problem exists if travelling to and from the Dundrum Town Centre from Ballinteer, Bus Lane not in use being used for undertaking.

Cyrus

on the second one just dont let them back in, will soon sort it out :P

i think the first one is in the rules somewhere just maybe not quite as described above. basically if there is an obstruction on your side of the road then you have to give way

seamus

I don't remember the original ROTR ever mentioning anything about overtaking vehicles in estates.
That first item would be covered of course by the "Always drive on the left" item. There should also be something in there about overtaking obstacles/hazards - it probably wouldn't deal with estates specifically because the rules are the same.

The second may be an offence, depending on circumstances. Technically everyone who's driving in the right-hand lane and not the bus lane, is guilty of an offence because they're ignoring the general rule of "drive on the left". When a bus lane is a normal lane, you are technically required to use it, unless overtaking.
In reality this isn't always reasonable because the bus lane stops and starts.

If the traffic in the right-hand lane is moving and someone uses the bus lane to undertake, they are guilty of an offence - overtaking on the left.
If the traffic in the right-hand lane is stopped, then someone is more than entitled to use the left-hand lane to overtake. I do this all the time where bus lanes are not in operation.
Of course, in every case you should not overtake unless it is safe to do so, so even if he is legitimately overtaking, doing it dangerously or doing it where there isn't space, is an offence.

Esel

seamus wrote: »

If the traffic in the right-hand lane is moving and someone uses the bus lane to undertake, they are guilty of an offence - overtaking on the left.

Not if the traffic in the right lane is moving slowly.

seamus

esel wrote: »

Not if the traffic in the right lane is moving slowly.

That's up for discussion. The correct interpretation is "moving in queues", so even if the traffic is moving slowly, it has to be moving in a queue in order for the manouver to be legitimate.

Or to put it another way - if there are three cars moving at 40km/h, but nothing in front of them, you can't overtake on the left.

lightening

esel wrote: »

Not if the traffic in the right lane is moving slowly.

Exactly. Just let them merge like a zip.

Del2005

VERYinterested wrote: »

I scoured the book when it arrived last year and could not find a mention of this first one. You are driving through an estate (or any road for that matter) there is a parked car on your side of the road and a car coming in the opposite direction. The blockage is on your side of the road, therefore you must yield to the oncoming car and then overtake the parked car when it is safe to do so. Common sense but most SUV drivers appear to be exempt from this, I wonder why it is not mentioned in the Rules of the Road anymore as it is a pet hate of mine.

Pure ignorance usually. But when driving large vehilces (HGV/Bus) then the only way to make progress is the be assertive and push out past parked vehicles and make the oncoming traffic stop or pull over, it's a very fine balance between assertive and ignorant though!

Second one is a very dangerous habit that a few people have developed. In the last year the development of Taylor's Lane (Green Route) near the Eden Pub in Rathfarnham, has provided a lovely wide road and there are Bus Lanes provided but not in use. Last night I was in a line of cars all travelling at a reasonable speed, and twice some guy tried to undertake me, despite there being nowhere for him to go if he achieved his manoeuvre, the road narrows in sections, especially as you approach the traffic lights near the entrance to Marlay Park travelling towards Lidl from the Eden Pub, and the bus lane just ends abruptly, it is suicidal to attempt this undertaking and downright dangerous. Anyone know what the story is on this grey area? Some Taxi men use it as a race track also. Similar problem exists if travelling to and from the Dundrum Town Centre from Ballinteer, Bus Lane not in use being used for undertaking.

You are in the wrong lane and should be driving in the left lane. I have great fun driving past people on that road and they with big thick heads on them cause I'm getting past. But in saying that you have to give way to traffic on your right so need to be carefull when the lanes merge.

VERYinterested

I thought I had described the situation, but obviously not. I was in a line of traffic, all of us were moving at a reasonable speed, there were about 8 cars so it was a long line of cars. There was an insufficient gap in front of me for a car to pull in. I appreciate the need for cars to merge at a junction like a zip, but this is not applicable in this situation. It will take an accident to see whom the authorities blame, but it was quite hairy for me last night with someone trying to undertake me and with nowhere for him to go, stupid driving if you ask me. With regard to 'driving on the left' this is a case of everyone's out of step except me, as 99% of motorists avoid bus lanes as it is not always clear if it is 'in zone' ie not a 24 hour bus lane, outside of the 7am to 7pm rule or just 'not in use'. If there is a line of traffic moving at a reasonable speed is it not just as easy to stay in that lane and avoid causing an accident? You can be in the 'right' but be killed in an accident!

Vertakill

For the estate part.. I've noticed that as well and I honestly don't think people are completely aware of it and it's not road rageworthy enough to open your window and tell them, so they'll never know!

Sometimes I'll find that the other person has committed themselves to driving down the narrow lane before they've seen me, or vice versa, and we'll both have to do the opposite to the rules!

blackbox

I'm not familiar with the specific bus lane you mention, but normally when a bus lane has to merge with normal traffic there is a yield sign for the traffic in the bus lane. i.e. the traffic in the bus lane should give way to traffic in the other lane.

If the bus lane is not in use, technically you should be driving in it but this can be a right pain when nobody else does it and you have to keep yielding as above.

One thing that really annoys me is the small size of the lettering for the times when the bus lane is active. There is no way that anyone can see this until they get right up to it.

Another thing that annoys me is the fact that they use a continuous white line to mark out the bus lanes - this already had a meaning in road traffic regulations. Why on earth didn't they use a different colour?

...end of rant

Steve

VERYinterested wrote: »

Common sense but most SUV drivers appear to be exempt from this, I wonder why it is not mentioned in the Rules of the Road anymore as it is a pet hate of mine.

SUV drivers have more rights on the road than other drivers*

As you said, it's common sense. In my estate cars park on both sides effectively leaving only one lane to cover both directions. It can be interesting when there's more than one car going either driection.

I think if legislation / ROTR tried to cover every single situation like this that occurs in real life then it would remove the need for common sense and courtesy on the roads.
As more and more rules are written, more and more situations will arise where the rule doesn't quite work leading to more and more situations where the toys get thrown out of the pram.

Second one is a very dangerous habit that a few people have developed. In the last year the development of Taylor's Lane (Green Route) near the Eden Pub in Rathfarnham, has provided a lovely wide road and there are Bus Lanes provided but not in use. Last night I was in a line of cars all travelling at a reasonable speed, and twice some guy tried to undertake me, despite there being nowhere for him to go if he achieved his manoeuvre, the road narrows in sections, especially as you approach the traffic lights near the entrance to Marlay Park travelling towards Lidl from the Eden Pub, and the bus lane just ends abruptly, it is suicidal to attempt this undertaking and downright dangerous. Anyone know what the story is on this grey area? Some Taxi men use it as a race track also. Similar problem exists if travelling to and from the Dundrum Town Centre from Ballinteer, Bus Lane not in use being used for undertaking.

As Seamus said, if everyone were following the ROTR, there would actuallly be two lanes of traffic as the not in use bus lane is in effect a normal traffic lane.

I can't believe the amount of drivers that sit in queues beside bus lanes that are either non operational, or out of operational hours. Long may it continue though, I take great pleasure scooting past them.

chris85

blackbox wrote: »

Another thing that annoys me is the fact that they use a continuous white line to mark out the bus lanes - this already had a meaning in road traffic regulations. Why on earth didn't they use a different colour?

...end of rant

+1

I hate the continuous white lane meaning strictly you shouldnt be moving into it or out of it accross the continuous line. This means the keep left rule wouldnt work as if you needed to turn right further down the road you would need to cross the line in most cases

Marcus.Aurelius

SteveC wrote: »

I can't believe the amount of drivers that sit in queues beside bus lanes that are either non operational, or out of operational hours. Long may it continue though, I take great pleasure scooting past them.

+1 very useful, especially on quays in the city centre and around Dundrum town centre. I can't believe people can't read the signs at the beginning of the bus lane.

Is it ignorance or just some twisted sense of the "I'm fully entitled to drive however I like" mentality?

WHITE_P

On point one, the driver travelling on the side of the road where the obstruction is should yield, no matter what type of car they are driving.

Your problem with SUV's has nothing to do with the vehicle, and everything to do with the ignorant muppet driving it. Around the area you mention I would imagine most of these SUV drivers are yummy mummy's who would just as quickly driver over you in a normal car too.

I drive a 4x4 for work purposes and I find that you are as likely to be run off the road by a normal size car as any other vehicle, particularly on the narrow country roads I spend alot of time on.

The only reason I can think of that might justify a car driver (in their own mind) not moving over from the centre of the road for an oncoming 4x4, is the "he's in an off roader, let him move onto the ditch for me", as I might damage my car if I move over to my side of the road.

WHITE_P

Chief Admiral wrote: »

I can't believe people can't read the signs at the beginning of the bus lane.

Is it ignorance or just some twisted sense of the "I'm fully entitled to drive however I like" mentality?

Sheep who can't think for themselves and are too afraid to use the bus lanes even though they are legally entitled to.

Vic Mackay

VERYinterested wrote: »

I scoured the book when it arrived last year and could not find a mention of this first one. You are driving through an estate (or any road for that matter) there is a parked car on your side of the road and a car coming in the opposite direction. The blockage is on your side of the road, therefore you must yield to the oncoming car and then overtake the parked car when it is safe to do so. Common sense but most SUV drivers appear to be exempt from this, I wonder why it is not mentioned in the Rules of the Road anymore as it is a pet hate of mine.

Why would the ROTR say "N.B: SUV drivers are not exempt from this rule"?

VERYinterested

Maybe they are right having a continuous white line for the bus lane which means that people shouldn't be weaving in and out of them as it suits and becoming a hazard to other drivers, whether or not they are in use? The Bus Lane I refer to on Taylor's Lane is very different to those on the Quays. The road is divided in two in parts but narrows to one lane at various sections, and an undertaking car has no option but to try and bully it's way out past moving cars, a very hazardous practice. I genuinely felt I was going to be clattered from the side.

Don't get me wrong, if there are two lanes and one is not moving, by all means use the empty 'out of use' bus lane. But if a line of traffic is moving perfectly well, why try to undertake when you have not got a straight road ahead, only a road that narrows to one lane?

VERYinterested

Vic Mackay wrote: »

Why would the ROTR say "N.B: SUV drivers are not exempt from this rule"?

Eh, I meant the overall offence.

lightening

VERYinterested wrote: »

The road is divided in two in parts but narrows to one lane at various sections

Just let them merge if their nose is ahead of you. Blocking them by driving close to the car in front of you is silly. You will end up going home with a stress headache.

Steve

VERYinterested wrote: »

But if a line of traffic is moving perfectly well, why try to undertake when you have not got a straight road ahead, only a road that narrows to one lane?

Because they're ignorant discourteous assholes that have a 'God given right' to get where they're going faster than everyone else.:rolleyes:


IIRC, the yield priorities are not consistent on that stretch either, in some places the bus lane has priority, in others it has to yield. They changed the length of the bus lane near the scholarstown end roundabout as well - the original layout was madness.

Del2005

VERYinterested wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, if there are two lanes and one is not moving, by all means use the empty 'out of use' bus lane. But if a line of traffic is moving perfectly well, why try to undertake when you have not got a straight road ahead, only a road that narrows to one lane?

But there are 2 lanes of traffic here, an out of use bus lane and the normal traffic lane, everyone driving in the traffic lane is wrong as we drive on left overtake on right. Just cause someone sticks their hand in a fire will you? So why do you blindly follow the wrong lane on the road.

If someone is driving in an out of use bus lane they are prefectly entitled to drive past the traffic in the other lane if they are travelling at or below the speed limit, I've never seen a bus/taxi get done for undertakeing as it would remove the benefit of the bus lane. AFAIK, and I could be wrong, doesn't the thick white line seperates the bus lane from the main line traffic differently to the skinny line.

It's not up to you to police how they merge back. If they are ahead of you let them out if behind who cares. It's different if it's people being sneeky racing up an in service bus lane, block them in.

LegacyUser

As other have said. Depending on what side of the roads the parked cars are it denotes who has the right of way.If they are on yours then you yield. But if you are into the "overtaking" manouver then you have the right of way. Never heard of overtaking on the left being an offense? I have a UK license so that might be way. It is pretty standard in the UK provided you are in the left lane and doing the speed limit. What can you do if some spanner decided to do 50 in the outer lane

VERYinterested

You would really need to see the situation to appreciate it, it's not as cut and dried as it sounds. As it happened I didn't, and couldn't let him out or I would have collided with him and a traffic island. All he would have achieved was to get one car ahead of where he was, approaching a red light. It IS up to me to police avoiding a collision with my vehicle, I was not the aggressor in this instance. He was level with me and had not a hope of out running me, two lanes merging in to one, with a red light ahead. Why would I have to let an ignorant fool back in front of me who had no good reason to be in that lane in the first place? It is obvious that nobody is sure of the rule on this judging by the answers that have been posted, I'm sorry I asked. I disagree that it is the norm in this country to drive in the Bus lane when they are not in use and I am the one in the wrong for not using it. I can't believe that some people think it is the norm to allow an idiot to break the speed limit in a built up area close to a public park to overtake other vehicles on the inside, this road is not a dual carriageway and as far as I can see the partial Bus lane was introduced as a speed control measure. But it has backfired, there are only two buses that use this stretch of road, the 16 and the 161, both are very infrequent.

lightening

VERYinterested wrote: »

All he would have achieved was to get one car ahead of where he was

Well, then, just let him merge.

VERYinterested wrote: »

It IS up to me to police avoiding a collision with my vehicle, I was not the aggressor in this instance. He was level with me and had not a hope of out running me, two lanes merging in to one, with a red light ahead.

All you had to do was slow down and let him merge.

VERYinterested

Why should I? Do you let people who sneak up the bus lanes merge in front of you? It is exactly the same type of irritating, inconsiderate, dangerous behaviour and I will not be bullied off the road by an idiot that is breaking the law, that's why I didn't let him merge.

Del2005

VERYinterested wrote: »

Why should I? Do you let people who sneak up the bus lanes merge in front of you? It is exactly the same type of irritating, inconsiderate, dangerous behaviour and I will not be bullied off the road by an idiot that is breaking the law, that's why I didn't let him merge.

The person didn't sneak up the bus lane, they where in the driving lane and you where in the wrong lane, as has been said before.

We drive on the left here, not the lane beside the open to all traffic bus lane. If the bus lane was in operation then I would make it difficult for them to get out, but since the bus lane there isn't open then depending on where they where I would have let them out.

Why are you getting so worked up over someone gaining 1 place on you?

VERYinterested

Del2005 wrote: »

The person didn't sneak up the bus lane, they where in the driving lane and you where in the wrong lane, as has been said before.

We drive on the left here, not the lane beside the open to all traffic bus lane. If the bus lane was in operation then I would make it difficult for them to get out, but since the bus lane there isn't open then depending on where they where I would have let them out.

Why are you getting so worked up over someone gaining 1 place on you?

I didn't get that worked up to be honest, even though I could have been in an accident, but I am getting worked up reading posts by people like yourself that aren't really sure what they are talking about or the piece of road in question, as many people said that it was illegal to undertake as said it was legal, so I don't know where you're getting that I and ALL the other cars were in the wrong lane.

I phoned the Gardai in Rathfarnham and they said there should be no undertaking on that stretch of road as it is extremely dangerous and unsuitable and illegal to do so, and they have had random checks in place to deter the speed merchants. Thanks everyone for the replies, sensible or otherwise.

WHITE_P

VERYinterested wrote: »

I am getting worked up reading posts by people like yourself that aren't really sure what they are talking about or the piece of road in question, as many people said that it was illegal to undertake as said it was legal, so I don't know where you're getting that I and ALL the other cars were in the wrong lane.

I wouldn't get too bothered by any posts, especially if the posters don't know the road or exact situation you found yourself in. I posted awhile back about a potentially very dangerous situation at a junction on the N2 north of Ashbourne and got some very negative / stupid replies that specifically mentioned a junction on the N3 approx. 10 miles to the west of the location I was talking about.

Esel

chris85 wrote: »

I hate the continuous white lane meaning strictly you shouldnt be moving into it or out of it accross the continuous line.

Not so. The thick white line merely marks the bus lane. Traffic can cross this line legally.

VERYinterested wrote: »

Maybe they are right having a continuous white line for the bus lane which means that people shouldn't be weaving in and out of them as it suits and becoming a hazard to other drivers

If it is out of hours, it is not a bus lane. Traffic is supposed to use it then. You know the way that before junctions the bus lane often ends, and continues again shortly after the junction? This is to encourage traffic to use both lanes, and merge again after the junction. As a result, more vehicles get through the junction before the lights go red. Simple, really. Can you not visualise the traffic build-up that happens when others behave as you do and do not use these lanes?

VERYinterested wrote: »

You would really need to see the situation to appreciate it, it's not as cut and dried as it sounds. As it happened I didn't, and couldn't let him out or I would have collided with him and a traffic island. ..... Why would I have to let an ignorant fool back in front of me who had no good reason to be in that lane in the first place? .....

If it was a bus, would you have yielded? No? If the bus had edged out, would you then have yielded? I'd bet yes. Why should it be different just because it's a car?

VERYinterested wrote: »

Why should I? Do you let people who sneak up the bus lanes merge in front of you? It is exactly the same type of irritating, inconsiderate, dangerous behaviour and I will not be bullied off the road by an idiot that is breaking the law, that's why I didn't let him merge.

I think you are the one with the problem, not the 'idiot' who 'sneaks up the bus lanes' and who you think is breaking the law, but actually isn't.

VERYinterested

VERYinterested wrote: »

I phoned the Gardai in Rathfarnham and they said there should be no undertaking on that stretch of road as it is extremely dangerous and unsuitable and illegal to do so, and they have had random checks in place to deter the speed merchants. Thanks everyone for the replies, sensible or otherwise.

Eh, I thought this had put all these stupid replies about me being in the wrong to bed, read all the posts you will see a vehicle tried to undertake me, why should I yield to him, like has been said by other posters, it is very difficult for people to visualise the situation especially when they can't absorb facts, but just want to prove some petty point and now it appears even the Gardai are wrong. I better go and give myself ten lashes for upsetting you. :rolleyes:

cyclopath2001

esel wrote:

As a result, more vehicles get through the junction before the lights go red.

Surely you mean amber?