Fiat is now premium

Cosmo K

.....or,


a marriage made in haven:rolleyes:

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=18347

Gandalf23

:eek:

Say it aint so ...

peasant

*waits for the first Punto with M-sport badges*

maidhc

Sounds like a good partnership. 2 small neighbouring car firms and neither big enough to survive independently in the long term.

peasant

I wouldn't exactly call FIAT "small"

http://www.fiatgroup.com/en-us/sectors/pages/default.aspx

The Group is active on world markets through five different business areas and their operating companies that employ over 180,000 people.

mike65

BMW are using Fiats skill in small car design and Fiat are using BMWs prestige. Simple.

Mike.

WHITE_P

BMW have already worked with PSA on engine developement. The new 1.6 engine in the Mini can also be found in Peugeot and Citreon cars.

bazz26

maidhc wrote: »

Sounds like a good partnership. 2 small neighbouring car firms and neither big enough to survive independently in the long term.

Something similar was said when BMW acquirred MG Rover many moons ago where the theory was that it was cheaper to buy a company that already specialized in small fwd platform technology than BMW develope it itself. The rest is history as they say.

But to be fair Fiat are bigger, more profitable and successful now whereas MG Rover were the exact opposite.

Will be interesting to see what impact this will have on Alfa Romeo, Ferrari, Maserati, etc. Lancia being the poor relation of the Fiat Group could stand to benefit more if Fiat play their cards right imo.

maidhc

peasant wrote: »

I wouldn't exactly call FIAT "small"

http://www.fiatgroup.com/en-us/sectors/pages/default.aspx

But their car side of things is pretty small. Indeed it almost vanished a few years ago. Apart from a few Ferraris in California they have no presence outside of Europe.

I think Fiat are a wonderful company though, and for the most part make wonderful cars.

bazz26 wrote: »

Something similar was said when BMW acquirred MG Rover many moons ago where the theory was that it was cheaper to buy a company that already specialized in small fwd platform technology than BMW develope it itself. The rest is history as they say.

But to be fair Fiat are bigger, more profitable and successful now whereas MG Rover were the exact opposite.

That is true. Fiat and BMW seems more of a marriage of equals though. I'd say trying to run Rover was like trying to run the Health Service!

E92

Hopefully BMW can get access to FIAT's multiair system.

We know Alfa wants to go back to rear wheel drive, could we see the 169 and 159 replacements being based on the 5 and 3 series respectively:eek:? Then you'd have Italian style combined with German engineering. That really would be a marriage made in heaven!

It's funny how Alfa fans HATE BMW and now to think that future Alfas may be based on BMWs:D:D:D!

The PSA-BMW petrol engine will finally find a home in a Citroen, the facelifted C4 on the way soon will be the first Citroen to use the BMW-PSA engine.

The next generation 1 series will share engines with the MINI.

alias no.9

BMW had complete control of Rover and asset stripped them, taking anything of value including Mini, several historic british brand names, and the knowledge contained in Landrover. They then threw what was left to the wolves.
This looks more like a partnership to share engines and possibly platforms, probably closer to the relationship Rover had with Honda, pre-BMW, but with greater differentiation between products. Mercedes were also sniffing around Fiat for the same reason, looking to borrowing the grande punto platform for the next B class, that probably won't happen now.

cancan

They need someone to sell alfa's in the usa.
BMW needs to make some money in the usa, as their margins have dropped big time with the weak dollar and quality problems....

Zonda999

alias no.9 wrote: »

BMW had complete control of Rover and asset stripped them, taking anything of value including Mini, several historic british brand names, and the knowledge contained in Landrover. They then threw what was left to the wolves.

Youre absolutely right but i couldnt see anything like that happening this time.TBH, i find it a bit of a strange one because italian and german cars used to be like chalk and cheese.Italian cars have got better now, though
I guess a 12 grand panda 1.1 active will now come with efficient dynamics??:D
The idea of a RWD alfa with bmw engineering sounds brilliant, i have to say

RobAMerc

I don't really think this is anything new is it, car companies do this sort of stuff all the time, and Fiat is using it as a tool to reduce development costs.

Didn't they develop the 500 with Fords new Ka?

Mercedes looked to have Fiat develop all their small cars, and GM/Fiat share a alot of development costs too. New Corsa and Grande Punto if I am not mistaken.

Also wasn't the first BMW 525 tds actually a Fiat engine ?

Those of us who have followed Fiat and love them know the technical brilliance they are capable of, and it looks as if the other manufaturers do too.

Mailman

Zonda999 wrote: »

I guess a 12 grand panda 1.1 active will now come with efficient dynamics??:D

A Panda Active is now 10,995 if I remember correctly.

In 2010 the Panda and the 500 will most likely have the same auto start stop functionality as BMW. It was already previewed in their 500 and Panda Aria show cars. From 2011 onward they will also transition to dual clutch auto transmissions away from the inferior dualogic technology currently in use in their small automatic cars.
FIAT don't have access to a modern engine in the 1.1 to 1.6 litre size range.
The BMW/MINI engine would be a perfect fit here. Their FIRE engine while still competitive dates back to the time of the original Fiat UNO.
BMW/MINI need a small diesel engine as Toyota will always act in their own interests. FIAT have some nice small diesel engines.

L1011

500 is built on a Panda not a Ford Ka.

The FIRE engine is ancient and has only one advantage, namely being a non-inteference engine, which is good when you sell cars to people who can't afford to maintain them (their classical poor Polish / poor Italian / poor Brazilian market) but not really in Western markets. The SuperFIRE is much better but is an interference engine...

Fiat however now use GM petrol engines at the small end of things, including a 1.4, so thats part of the size issue covered.

Mailman

MYOB wrote: »

The FIRE engine is ancient and has only one advantage, namely being a non-inteference engine, which is good when you sell cars to people who can't afford to maintain them (their classical poor Polish / poor Italian / poor Brazilian market) but not really in Western markets. The SuperFIRE is much better but is an interference engine...

That 8V FIRE is still a nice engine. It's a four cylinder as opposed to all the triples that are hanging around these days, economical and rev. happy.
In the Panda it works very well but struggles with the extra weight of a Punto.
I'd buy a 1.2 litre 500 in preference to the 1.4 any day.

L1011

They're not economical when you drive them like a Donegalman - I average 37mpg on a FIRE here...

RobAMerc

MYOB wrote: »

500 is built on a Panda not a Ford Ka.

I think you'll find the 500 and Ford Ka are built on a modified Panda platform.
Both will be built alongside each other in Poland and both I think will use Fiat engines.

Mailman

MYOB wrote: »

They're not economical when you drive them like a Donegalman - I average 37mpg on a FIRE here...

My Fiat Putno 60S from 10 years ago used to get 45mpg.
I've been getting 50mpg from a 1242cc Panda recently.

L1011

RobAMerc wrote: »

I think you'll find the 500 and Ford Ka are built on a modified Panda platform.
Both will be built alongside each other in Poland and both I think will use Fiat engines.

Meaning the 500 is a modified Panda not a modified Ka...

RobAMerc

Apologies, mine should have been clearer...


Didn't they develop the 500 alongside Fords new Ka?

Bluefoam

Me thinks the Ka is being developed on the 500 platform which is derived from the Panda...

BMW Alfa resource sharing would be great for both. Not sure how it will effect the bigger cars as they are aimed at a very close demographic.