New architecture course DIT

jonnyj

Hi all,

Im just wondering if anyone here has heard about the new course due to start in DIT in September 2009. From speaking to one of the lecturers we would be able to get a full honors degree after 3 years, and after that there will be a follow on 2 year masters (if you wanted to).

Its quite a good option for all of us young arch techs after being left out in the cold after the immplementation of the Building control bill. If we were able to get into second year we would get a full architecture degree after 2 years. Is it too good to be true????

Slig

Then youd be an architect,
you'd probably develop back pains and posture problems from having you nose so high in the air:D.
Personally, I never wanted to be an architect. but then I knew the difference between the 2 professions (or had an idea anyway). Most people see our profession as an Architect Lite.
I dont think Id have the artistic flair to be an architect and would rather fight for recognition than sell out.

topcatcbr

How is this different from the current course 3+2

Mellor

jonnyj wrote: »

Hi all,

Im just wondering if anyone here has heard about the new course due to start in DIT in September 2009.

Its starts in 2009, but thats the add on.
It won't be CAO until the year after I believe.

And afaik, its 4 year honours degree, as in 3+1, not 3 year full degree

Its quite a good option for all of us young arch techs after being left out in the cold after the immplementation of the Building control bill. If we were able to get into second year we would get a full architecture degree after 2 years. Is it too good to be true????

One of us is very confused.
if you get into second year of this course, you would have a honours AT degree after three years. Not a honours architecture degree.
Unless you mean second year of architecture, which would take 4 years, and you can get in without an honours degree.


To be honest, your post doesn't makes sense.You you re-phrase it.

Supertech

topcatcbr wrote: »

How is this different from the current course 3+2

The current degree is Ordinary Level topcat - the famous Level 7.

The new course would be Level 8 Honours degree - 4 years (as Mellor says) with an option to progress to Level 9 Masters in the future, but it's all firmly rooted in Architectural Technology, not Architecture. It's a huge step towards giving AT's a professional context. And, again, Mellor is right, it's only the add on which will be offered in 2009. I believe it will be 2010 before the 4 year honours begins. Great that Bolton St. are doing this - I wonder if there's any chance that the other colleges might take a leaf out of their book and offer something similar - the demand is out there.

topcatcbr

Supertech wrote: »

The current degree is Ordinary Level topcat - the famous Level 7.

The new course would be Level 8 Honours degree - 4 years (as Mellor says) with an option to progress to Level 9 Masters in the future, but it's all firmly rooted in Architectural Technology, not Architecture. It's a huge step towards giving AT's a professional context. And, again, Mellor is right, it's only the add on which will be offered in 2009. I believe it will be 2010 before the 4 year honours begins. Great that Bolton St. are doing this - I wonder if there's any chance that the other colleges might take a leaf out of their book and offer something similar - the demand is out there.

I was confused as he called it an architecture degree not AT

jonnyj

Yes I am talking about Architecture. I was told by one of the lecturers that the architecture course will be restructured and will result in a 3 year honors degree starting in September 2009. Im not refering to the architectural technology course at all. Sorry if I was confusing.

Mellor

I doubt this is true,
maybe a ordinary degree after 3 years

(not saying its defo not or impossible, just that a degree after 3 years is much more likely)

RKQ

I see nothing wrong with a three year Honours Degree.

All Honours Degree in the UK, take three years and are RIBA Part 1.( Fully recognised and inspected by RIBA External Examiners)

WIT is running a degree course in Architecture, that is supposed to be Part 1 but is not recognised by RIBA .Therefore it is not RIBA Part 1.

I do hope DIT will have RIBA or RIAI recognition, otherwise it will be crazy!:eek:

Slig

WIT do a 3 year Degree (I know because they brought it in the year after I started:D) they also do a 4th year Hon Degree. I dont know what level it is though

RKQ

I know Slig, but the point I'm making is WIT is not Part 1.

All Honours Degrees in the UK, take three years and are RIBA Part 1.
(Fully recognised and inspected by RIBA External Examiners).

There should be no reason why a three year Honours Degree could not be run in Ireland. I do hope DIT get relevant recognition before starting a course in Architecture.

Whats the point in having a degree that not recognised or does not give your direct access to UCD or RIBA Part 2 in the UK?

( Waterford Graduates must sit an exam, as it is not RIBA Part 1, in order to continue their studies in UK.... Seems abit pointless having an unrecognised degree!)

Supertech

RKQ wrote: »

I know Slig, but the point I'm making is WIT is not Part 1.

Seems abit pointless having an unrecognised degree!)

The WIT course isn't unrecognised RKQ ... it has 'provisional approval' from the RIAI, but hasn't had any graduates as yet since that approval was given (2007). It's only fair to see what the product of the course is like before it's approved. It will be revisited each year until these graduates emerge, when, hopefully, the course will be fully approved by RIAI.It's a 5 year Honours Degree - The 3-year degree leads to BSc Arch while the 4th & 5th year leads to a B.Arch Hons. Honours graduates with Distinction from year 3 & 4 of the Arch Tech course can go to 2nd Year of the Architecture degree.

DIT's Architecture degree is accredited by RIAI until 2009, and has been running there since before time began, they're not 'just starting'.

Both these courses are Level 8.

Why are RIBA so important with regard to an Irish course anyway, surely a) RIAI accreditation is more important, and b) the EU directive will cover anyone who (eventually) graduates from an accredited degree anyway.

..... and c) why are we bothered here about architects

although your comment above would stand true for all unaccredited courses in Architectural technology aswell - what's the point ?

RKQ

Supertech wrote: »

The WIT course isn't unrecognised RKQ ... it has 'provisional approval' from the RIAI,
DIT's Architecture degree is accredited by RIAI until 2009, and has been

Why are RIBA so important with regard to an Irish course anyway, surely a) RIAI accreditation is more important, and b) the EU directive will cover anyone who (eventually) graduates from an accredited degree anyway.

..... and c) why are we bothered here about architects

what's the point ?

We are getting away from the Op.

More power to DIT, Lets have a 3 year honours degree in Architectural Technology, leading to automatic CIAT recognition / membership!.

You totally missed my point Supertech, so I'll repeat it again:-

• All Honours Degree in Architecture in the UK, take three years and are RIBA Part 1.( Fully recognised and inspected by RIBA External Examiners)
• There should be no reason why a three year Honours Degree could not be run in Ireland.

So IMO theres no reason why there can't be a 3 year Honours Degree in Architectural Technology, in Ireland, recognised by RIAI and CIAT.
( I think the OP is refering to Architecture and why not, nice to look at all educational options):cool:

Supertech

you totally missed my point ....

So IMO theres no reason why there can't be a 3 year Honours Degree in Architectural Technology, in Ireland, recognised by RIAI and CIAT.
( I think the OP is refering to Architecture and why not, nice to look at all educational options)

Sorry 'bout that .... but you didn't mention Architectural Technology anywhere in your earlier post, only Architecture.... and specifically referred to RIBA Part 1, which surely refers to Architecture

But thanks for the clarification - I agree on 3 years Honours Degrees in Architectural Technology.
BTW - DIT are not in the process of offering a 3 year honuors degree in Arch Tech as I understand it - the new degree when it comes on line is due to be 4 years in duration.

Mellor

RKQ wrote: »

We are getting away from the Op.

More power to DIT, Lets have a 3 year honours degree in Architectural Technology, leading to automatic CIAT recognition / membership!.

You totally missed my point Supertech, so I'll repeat it again:-

• All Honours Degree in Architecture in the UK, take three years and are RIBA Part 1.( Fully recognised and inspected by RIBA External Examiners)
• There should be no reason why a three year Honours Degree could not be run in Ireland.

So IMO theres no reason why there can't be a 3 year Honours Degree in Architectural Technology, in Ireland, recognised by RIAI and CIAT.
( I think the OP is refering to Architecture and why not, nice to look at all educational options):cool:

The debate about 3 years honors has ben done before,
I have been one of the main pro posters.

However, the op is relatig to architecture.
So alot of your post is completely off topic, its understandable as most of us thought it was AT.

To clarify,
Dit currently have a hons degree in Architecture, its not a new course. They are also recognaise as a part 2 course, eligible for UCD/RIAI part 3


They are proposing to change the format slightly.
I don't belive that it is going to become a 3 year honors degree +2 masters.
It is more likely that it is going start awarding B.Sci Arch after 3 years, with either a hons or Masters after 5.
This is currently what is done in UCD

One Cold Hand

At the minute, after 3 years in DIT you get no qualification (in the Architecture course). The first qualification you get is upon completing the 5 years, when you get a B. Arch (part 2).
In UCD you get a BA in Architecture, which is Part 1. Most courses in the UK are like UCD. You then proceed to do your final 2 years and get your B.Arch.

Yes I am talking about Architecture. I was told by one of the lecturers that the architecture course will be restructured and will result in a 3 year honors degree starting in September 2009. Im not refering to the architectural technology course at all. Sorry if I was confusing.

It sounds to me like the proposal you heard is to change the system in DIT to the same as UCD?
You may be able to get an honours degree after 3 years, but it won't be a B. Arch, it will be a Batchelor of Arts (in Architecture).


/edit, Mellor, didn't really read your last post properly before posting....I agree with what you said!

Is it a B.A. or B. Sci btw?

RKQ

I see no reason why DIT can not run a three year Honours Degree in Architecture or anything else.

Three years for an Honours Degree is the norm in UK.:D

One Cold Hand

RKQ wrote: »

I see no reason why DIT can not run a three year Honours Degree in Architecture or anything else.

Three years for an Honours Degree is the norm in UK.:D

Do you mean compressing the 5 year course into a 3 year one?

And why are you stressing 'honours'? Surely the level of qualification (pass, honours, etc) you get is dependant on your results?

Talwin

Mod Edit: Ignore this post, its all wrong

An Honours degree is a level 8 and is 3 years direct
An ordinary Degree is level 7 equilivant to a diploma

In architecture you do a 3 years honors degree and a 2 year post grad degree equilivant to a masters which would give you a level 9

One Cold Hand

Pardon my ignorance, but can someone please explain this level 7,8,9,etc thing. I've never heard of it before.

Supertech

Level 7 = Ordinary Level Degree (in the case of Architectural Technology BSc ArchTech which equates to the old National Diploma)

Level 8 = Honours Degree (again in the case of Arch Tech - BSC (Hons)ArchTech

Level 9 = Masters Level MSc..... but this is part of what is currently being proposed - as far as I am aware no specific Masters in Architectural Technology exists in this country at present)

Based on the NQAI and Bologna Agreement to harmonise qualifications acrss Europe .... I think !!!

RKQ

One Cold Hand wrote: »

Do you mean compressing the 5 year course into a 3 year one?

No

One Cold Hand wrote: »

And why are you stressing 'honours'? Surely the level of qualification (pass, honours, etc) you get is dependant on your results?

No, not always

I don't mean to stress Honours. Most UK degrees in architecture are Honours. One Cold Hand, my point is simply if it can be done in the UK It can be done in Ireland. Surely it is possible to have a three year degree (Part 1) that an honours degree.

The op is talking about Architecture so I have followed the op. Thats why I refer to RIBA Part 1. I do not know of RIAI exam exemptions, so I can't comment I'm afraid.
Still I see no reason why there can not be 3 year honours degrees in any subject!

I hope this clarifies my earlier points above. I'm not sure its possible at the moment but it should be possible in the future.:)

One Cold Hand

RKQ wrote: »

No

No, not always

I don't mean to stress Honours. Most UK degrees in architecture are Honours. One Cold Hand, my point is simply if it can be done in the UK It can be done in Ireland. Surely it is possible to have a three year degree (Part 1) that an honours degree.

The op is talking about Architecture so I have followed the op. Thats why I refer to RIBA Part 1. I do not know of RIAI exam exemptions, so I can't comment I'm afraid.
Still I see no reason why there can not be 3 year honours degrees in any subject!

I hope this clarifies my earlier points above. I'm not sure its possible at the moment but it should be possible in the future.:)

Pretty much clarifies it! It's similar to UCD where you're awarded a degree (part 1) after year 3. I agree with you, there should be a degree give in DIT also.

Still don't understand what you mean by honours, but that's probably just me!

topcatcbr

There are three degree level at the moment asfaik ordinary level (used to be national dip) which is usually done in three years full time in It or Uni. the hons degree done over 4 years and masters degree usually 2 year add on. and are graded on national frame work of qualifications as 7,8 & 9. they have nothing to do with what results u get as long as you achieve the min grade.

Mellor

RKQ wrote: »

No

No, not always

I don't mean to stress Honours. Most UK degrees in architecture are Honours. One Cold Hand, my point is simply if it can be done in the UK It can be done in Ireland. Surely it is possible to have a three year degree (Part 1) that an honours degree.

The op is talking about Architecture so I have followed the op. Thats why I refer to RIBA Part 1. I do not know of RIAI exam exemptions, so I can't comment I'm afraid.
Still I see no reason why there can not be 3 year honours degrees in any subject!

I hope this clarifies my earlier points above. I'm not sure its possible at the moment but it should be possible in the future.:)

See, your getting hung up on the name there.

In the UK, afaik, the 3 years degrees are hons and part one, with the 5 being part 2

Here, the 3 years degree is ord and part one, and the 5 years hons is part two.

number of years and the RIBA/RIAI "part" are the sam, the name of the degree mayyers little.
Sadly, ATs get the boot here in terms of UK rep.

RKQ

Mellor wrote: »

the name of the degree mayyers little.

Not so, many people trying to transfer to UK courses are having huge problems. WIT is not recognised as Part 1 and graduates must sit an exam, costing afew K, to transfer to Part 2 in UK.

Those with an Ordinary UK Degree will have less choice of Schools of Architecture, than those with Honours Degrees. (Graduates are incouraged to change Schools between Part 1 and Part2, to get a more diverse education.) Naturally the grade of Honours also has implications.

Degree name and Degree Grade matters greatly.
I have always believed in the Irish education system. I see no reason for a 4 year honours degree, if it can be done in 3.

jonnyj

Good points there lads. I suppose all will become clear in November when DIT starts to advertise the course starting the following september. Any arch techs here thinking of doing an architecture course??

Mellor

You're not reading my post correctly.

RKQ wrote: »

Not so, many people trying to transfer to UK courses are having huge problems. WIT is not recognised as Part 1 and graduates must sit an exam, costing afew K, to transfer to Part 2 in UK.

Thats nothing to do with the course degree title. Its simply not yet recognaised

Those with an Ordinary UK Degree will have less choice of Schools of Architecture, than those with Honours Degrees. (Graduates are incouraged to change Schools between Part 1 and Part2, to get a more diverse education.) Naturally the grade of Honours also has implications

Stop going off in the wrong direction. I was obviously refering to the fact that it is flawed comparing UK Degrees and ROI Degrees, as they are differnet in how they are named
So why did you compare UK Ord and UK Hons, obviously these are different, nobody suggested other wise.

To spell it out in case you comeback with another irrelevant post.
UK Hons is part 1 (3 years)

ROI Hons is Part 2 (5 years)
Ord is (3 Years)

Degree name and Degree Grade matters greatly.
I have always believed in the Irish education system. I see no reason for a 4 year honours degree, if it can be done in 3.

To use a famous quote;
"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."

The Irish hons degree is 5 years, the UK is 3. They do not have the same content, to get to the equiv in the UK, you need to 2 years extra.
The names are differnet, the cointent the same, the professional quailification the same

One Cold Hand

RKQ wrote: »

Degree name and Degree Grade matters greatly.

I really don't think it does mate.
I have a Degree in Architecture. A few years before I graduated, it was a Diploma in Architecture. Some courses in the US and Australia have a Masters in Architecture. They're all the same thing. Same length, same content, same standard required (roughly!).

Anyway, after you get your first job, employers only really care about your experince!

No6

One Cold Hand wrote: »

Anyway, after you get your first job, employers only really care about your experince!

Very True the only ones who care about it then are the Public Service where if you not level whatever, it is used as a stick to beat you :mad: and in our cases as Arch Tech keep us down, hence we can be a little hung up about it!!:D

RKQ

One Cold Hand wrote: »

Anyway, after you get your first job, employers only really care about your experince!

True for Employers, but not Univercities.
If you are transfering Courses or continuing your studies, your Degree grade will mattter.

Give it a try. Apply for Part 2 in the UK and see if it your grade matters.
(I'd love to be wrong mate!)