Luton start next season minus 30 points

Bounty Hunter

Just announced that Luton Town are to get a further 20 point deduction on top of the 10 they already had for going into administration at the start of next season.

Lived there for 4 years and feel sorry for them, really have to expect back to back relegations for them now and any remaining decent players they have to leave as soon as possible.

Savman

Absolutely ridiculous punishment. Why not just relegate them now?

Xavi6

Ouch. I thought they we getting back on track having been bought by that fan of theirs?

Thats ridiculous. Why not just demote them so theres something at stake when they take the field....


My cousin is a Luton fan. He must be gutted.

SantryRed

As much as I hate them with being a Watford fan, it's not good to see your rivals go down like this.

Why not just demote them now? They won't stay up with that penalty.

Savman

Can someone please explain to me how a club that is being punished for having financial difficulties are ever supposed to survive being hit with a penalty that pretty much condemns their fate in the non-league?

I don't know the exact ins and outs of the Luton Town case, but like with Leeds last year they would have to have done something really bad to warrant that kind of punishment.

shanel23

Know exactly what it feels like to have points deducted for "financial" reasons other than any fault of the team or its fans - as a Leeds fan.

It sucks for Luton - feel sorry for them .

SantryRed

Has anyone got a link?

It's not on Skysports or anything.

Bounty Hunter

I can remember a back page of a paper from around a year ago saying they had broken around 50 football league rules or something like that. The club, like the place itself is a shambles, still 30 point deduction is just stupid... would love if they stayed up (They wont)

its been on SSN for around 30mins

shanel23

SantryRed wrote: »

Has anyone got a link?

It's not on Skysports or anything.

It's on sportinglife.com

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=soccer/08/07/10/SOCCER_Luton.html

Savman

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

would love if they stayed up

They're only 70pts away from the 40pt safe zone :rolleyes:

Bounty Hunter

Savman wrote: »

They're only 70pts away from the 40pt safe zone :rolleyes:

you did kindly leave out the (They wont) part of that line.

really would prefer if they did get demoted and then this season they could try and get back into the football league. obviously it would be messy with last years next best placed team getting a surprise promotion but i think both clubs might actually prefer it.

Savman

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

you did kindly leave out the (They wont) part of that line.

I did but only to highlight the sheer stupidity of this decision. If you're a Luton Town player or Manager, how the hell do you approach the new season with this hanging over your head? It's stupid that the players have to carry the burden because of the fuck ups at boardroom level.

DSB

Double what Leeds got? While most people argued that even Leeds' punishment was harsh. Thats just too much.

Guy:Incognito

shanel23 wrote: »

Know exactly what it feels like to have points deducted for "financial" reasons other than any fault of the team or its fans - as a Leeds fan.

It sucks for Luton - feel sorry for them .

So how do you punish a club?

What has fans running amock in a city or in a stadium got to do with the club? They cant control them, yet clubs get sanctioned over that too.

Gelio

And the thing is its just going to get worse and worse with players having to leave

Savman

Stekelly wrote: »

So how do you punish a club?

I don't know, I don't think anyone does, that's kinda the point. The punishment should fit the crime, in this case it certainly doesn't and it didn't with Leeds either.

Administrative indiscipline = Administrative punishment

It seems common sense has gone on vacation again.

Kingp35

That is an absolute joke, I feel real sorry for Luton. The thing is though that the Football League were absolute idiots when it came to the Leeds case. We did everything possible to try and get the 15 points over turned but failed so now the Football League have set a precedent in that any club who exits admin without a CVA is going to be hit with a points deduction.

Seriously this makes no sense, how the hell is a club going to survive financial difficulties if they are almost definitely going down again. Anyone with half a brain knows that the smaller clubs are likely to fold and if I was a Luton fan I would be very worried. Leeds were lucky because we are a big club with big fan base so we had the money to keep going, clubs like Luton are being completely screwed.

Also why did Luton get hit with a 20 point deduction and Leeds only 15? Where did the extra 5 points come from?

Seriously the Football League don't have a clue!!

leninbenjamin

shambolic. shows where the leagues priorities are.

Zaph

As a Leeds fan I know what this feels like and I feel sorry for Luton and their fans. The Football League are a bunch of amateurs, there isn't even any consistency in the punishments they hand out. Not that I'd like to see Luton hit with 15 points either, but it was deemed "appropriate" for Leeds then why are Luton being punished even more? I'd love to see them somehow escape relegation just to give two fingers to the FL, but I'm afraid it's the Conference for them next year.

shane86

This may seem like a stupid question but why does the FA feel they have been wronged when a club goes into admin? What loss do they make?

Im no expert but my understanding of admin is that a club gets so heavily into debt that they involve one of these admin firms, who presumably pay off some of the debt and then hang around for years to operate the club so as to get their money back plus a large profit for helping in the first place.

How (assuming that is what it is) does this harm the FA? Are the fines an incentive to prevent the likes of Wigan from bidding outlandish sums of borrowed money for the likes of Drogba and Ronaldo? And (assuming my interpretation of admin is correct) docking points on a club and seeing them virtually guaranteed of relegation would surely lessen the numbers of admin companies prepared to bail them out? Admins wouldnt shy away from Leeds because, due to the large fanbase and still decent ticket takings, there is a good chance they will finally claw back into the prem within a decade, possibly less. But Luton were never going to the EPL anyway, now that they are going to the conference who the hell would invest in them?

PHB

The point is that there has to be a strong incentive against clubs taking risks in terms of finance, banking on success, because the downsides are just so big. The FA don't want another Leeds.

That said, their inconsistancy is just a joke.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

I presume they have leave to appeal the decision? Common Sense might be back from vacation by the time it's heard.

loyatemu

they'd be better off asking to be demoted now - that way they'd have a season in the conference to fight for promotion and might be back in the league next year.

With -30 points this season becomes meaningless and they'll find themselves in non-league next year anyway...

Mitch Connor

shane86 wrote: »

This may seem like a stupid question but why does the FA feel they have been wronged when a club goes into admin? What loss do they make?

Im no expert but my understanding of admin is that a club gets so heavily into debt that they involve one of these admin firms, who presumably pay off some of the debt and then hang around for years to operate the club so as to get their money back plus a large profit for helping in the first place.

How (assuming that is what it is) does this harm the FA? Are the fines an incentive to prevent the likes of Wigan from bidding outlandish sums of borrowed money for the likes of Drogba and Ronaldo? And (assuming my interpretation of admin is correct) docking points on a club and seeing them virtually guaranteed of relegation would surely lessen the numbers of admin companies prepared to bail them out? Admins wouldnt shy away from Leeds because, due to the large fanbase and still decent ticket takings, there is a good chance they will finally claw back into the prem within a decade, possibly less. But Luton were never going to the EPL anyway, now that they are going to the conference who the hell would invest in them?

The admin firm that take ove rthe running of a club will generally negotiate with creditors to pay back part of the debt owed, 10p to the £1, that sort of thing. This means a club could potentially go into admin in order to avoid some debt, then come out a few months later in a much better financial position. I think it was the case with Leicester a few seasons ago, with many teams in the Championship claiming Leicester had gained an unfair advantage in going into administration - and I think it was this case that prompted the football league to introduce points penalties for sides going into admin.

Maybe, instead of a points penalty they could introduce a position penalty, similar to what you see in qualifying for F1, but tweaked a little - such as the club will only be allowed to finish a certain amount of places up in the league, regardless of their points total. So, even if a team had enough points to gain promotion at the end of the season, the highest they'd be allowed to come is 10th, with the remaining teams moved places as required. This would mean a club is not practically guaranteed to be relegated, but could also not gain promotion (or a european place) and their eventual prize money would also be reduced.

shane86

Tauren wrote: »

The admin firm that take ove rthe running of a club will generally negotiate with creditors to pay back part of the debt owed, 10p to the £1, that sort of thing. This means a club could potentially go into admin in order to avoid some debt, then come out a few months later in a much better financial position.

So basically the admin firm manages to temporarily keep the lenders at bay by paying them back this 10% and assuring them they will try to turn the club into a profit maker so that the rest can be paid off? Surely the parties owed money dont just write the rest off as bad debt seeing as the club likely has a football field worth of property in your average English city/town that they could try to seize via court order (i.e. the stadium and car park).

This surely must take years though, for an ailing club to turn a profit, pay off those owed money and then pay the admin firm their cut for getting them out of the sh1t.

Mitch Connor

no, as far as I know, any deal struck is final. Leeds fans will know more about this, but I think if the lenders and the administrators strike a deal for Xp in the £ that is all they will get back on the debt, as if the administrators don't sort things out this way to club goes to the wall and would be declared bankrupt.

Bounty Hunter

Luton's appeal has failed, they start next season on -30

Galvasean

According to BBC,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/l/luton_town/7507736.stm
they had 10 deducted for 'financial irregularities regarding payments to agents' and 20 for breach of 'insolvency rules'.
Is it just me or are the penalties the wrong way around?

~Rebel~

just silly. as was said, they'd be much better off just being punished by being demoted one more league and given a clean slate on their points. At least then they'd still keep some of their decent players who might hang on to push for promotion next season, whereas noone is going to want to stay for a season of trying to climb everest in their pajamas, and then still have a season of trying to get back to where they were relegated to in the first place.

Guy:Incognito

~Rebel~ wrote: »

just silly. as was said, they'd be much better off just being punished by being demoted one more league and given a clean slate on their points. At least then they'd still keep some of their decent players who might hang on to push for promotion next season, whereas noone is going to want to stay for a season of trying to climb everest in their pajamas, and then still have a season of trying to get back to where they were relegated to in the first place.

Leeds would have finished 13th if they had been deducted 30 instead of 15 last season. Luton are stratign -30 but looking like they will have new owners and investment , why are people writing them off straight away?

Anyway, it's for 2 seperate offences, the rules are there and they broke 2 of them.