Pilot Salaries & Contract Pilot Rates

Jizzer

Hi,

This may have been posted and discussed already..sorry for the repost if it has.

I rang up a School last week in Weston..am starting lessons soon to do my ppl first and then cpl.

I have seen jobs with RyanAir for Pilots starting on €80K

However, I currently earn more than this.

What sort of salaries are there out there? I obviously dont want to take a drop. Where is the big bucks?

Is there such a thing as freelance pilot work i.e short term contracts paying daily rates? Any idea as to what sort of rates there are for contract work?

Any info appreciated.

Thanks in Advance.

chickenhawk

You'll be taking a pay cut.

No pilots start on 80k. I hope to be working by christmas and I know ryanair would be generous to give me 25g. But it rises quickly enough and if you really want to fly you won't care too much.

Look at this website for all pay info.
http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/operatorlist.php?reg=Europe&type=Major/National/Low%20Cost

(i was just using ryanair as an example btw they are all the same)

highlydebased

As with every profession unfortuantely you start at the bottom. You are not going to find any airline that will pay you much more than 100k PA as a FO.

Look East to Emirates/Etihad etc etc etc

If you get yourself an instructor rating when you have your CPL/PPL which will build up your hours and possibly give you an advantage

wittymoniker

you probably won't get 80k with ryanair even as a captain, 4 to 5 years down the road.
starting pay for pilots is poor added to the fact that as a fresh CPL you'll be paying an airline to hire you.
you won't get near the mid east carriers with zero time either so if you're getting into flying to get rich you're going to be diappionted, stay where you have good wedge and fly for fun!

*Kol*

wittymoniker wrote: »

you probably won't get 80k with ryanair even as a captain, 4 to 5 years down the road.
starting pay for pilots is poor added to the fact that as a fresh CPL you'll be paying an airline to hire you.
you won't get near the mid east carriers with zero time either so if you're getting into flying to get rich you're going to be diappionted, stay where you have good wedge and fly for fun!

Good point. There are too many other well paying jobs out there now. It's not as attracive a job as it used to be. If you really want to fly all the time become a pilot. Of course there is the travel part of it too, depending who with and where you are flying, which can be interesting.

Tenger

Deleted at Tengers request by Mod

wittymoniker

Bramble wrote: »

FR pay more than EI. Top salary in EI for long term captain is a bit over 100K. F/Os start at 35-40K in EI.

Contract pilots earn a lot more but with all the retired pilots on the market they would be more employable. I kow of many ex-EI capatins who fly right seat as a contracter with great pay ans conditions. (Month on month off type thing)

that's not quite right, EI entry level skiper is on well over 100k whereas FR pay just over 80k, and an EI FO is on quite a bit mroe too.

contractors are well paid but work hard and may get the run around from base to base depending on the agency.

pay looked like it was on the up until fuel started getting expensive but the supply of pilots is drying up so may turn things around.

yaeger

Indeed I know the figures are wrong...
FO starting in EI is on a Basic of low 60Kish ,then PLUS sector and perf will bring it well over 80k and thats year one. "SOME" Ryanair Contracters may find themselves pocketting a little more intially but that is far surpassed by EI after some years plus you would still have one of the best pensions in the industry, and retiring at 55 with the option to contract is nice.
Contracting on B737/A320 can earn you 3>6k per month tax free depending on where you are as an FO, There are as many figures and deals as there are airlines and agencies and yes many start low but equally with some experience you can do resonabley well. The middle east is not the best choice also, pay might be resonable but expect to hand over your life to crewing, and who cares if you get housing and transport allowance, your living in the sandpit.

Jizzer if your interest is primarily cash i would question your motivation to fly, you do need to think hard before going for it, although some pay well the majority of airlines pay low and work you hard for it.

skybus

Bramble wrote

Top salary in EI for long term captain is a bit over 100K

Maybe about 15 years ago it was. Year 24 basic pilot salary in Aer Lingus is currently just over €206,000 to be almost exact. When you add the extras such as perfomance pay, flying pay, pension contributions etc it comes to €290,000. Certainly not 100k. Pilots involved in training receive significantly more.

The starting salary for a brand new pilot is around 62k and with the extras outlined above it comes to over 90k in year 1.

The main advantage of the salary scale in Aer Lingus is that you are on a point scale from day 1. Promotions are based on seniority and suitability of course. As such the day you get promoted from First Officer to Captain you move directly accross to the relevant point on the captains scale. For example if you are a year 10 First Officer and you get promoted you automatically move across to year 10 Captain salary. You don't move down the scale to year one Captain salary again as in some companies. Some pilots prefer to operate as First Officers on the trans atlantic fleet for lifestyle reasons. Many commute from around Europe and may not decide to go for promotion for perhaps 18-20 years until they are senior enough to remain on the fleet. As such when they apply for promotion they then start on a year 18-20 captain salary.

Don't know the salary scale in Ryanair so I'm not in a position to comment on them.

Contract pilots can indeed make serious money. Some ex colleagues are taking home very nice earnings a month from one Far East carrier. It's a difficult lifestyle, you commute a lot and these contracts are usually short term. Of course to make the large money from contract work you have to be experienced and usually have training experience behind you.

PhoenixRising

Bramble wrote: »

FR pay more than EI. Top salary in EI for long term captain is a bit over 100K. F/Os start at 35-40K in EI.

Not correct. Multiply by 2 and you are in the ballpark for EI pilots pay.

EI pay better than Ryanair. In fact there is no comparison when you take into account the total package incl pension.

cp251

Is there such a thing as freelance pilot work i.e short term contracts paying daily rates? Any idea as to what sort of rates there are for contract work?

Yes there is. The likes of PARC and others recruit pilots on worldwide basis. However, most pilots like that have multiple thousands of hours of jet time and type ratings. You might expect to be in that position in about ten years time assuming you manage to get a jet job in the first place.

If or when you finish flight training you can expect a few years earning less than many building workers. Like building workers you can expect little job security.

Most if not all new Ryanair pilots are placed on Brookfield Contracts. In effect they are self-employed contractors paid by the flying hour. You won't get into Aer Lingus unless you do an integrated course with OAA in Oxford or FTE in Jerez or you have lots of jet time.

As for money, if that's so important to you forget about flying as you won't match your current salary until you make Captain quite a few years from now. The job isn't what it was in terms of salary or conditions of service. Not to mention status. Not that it matters to most of us as we just like flying, fools that we are.:(

cp251

EI pay better than Ryanair. In fact there is no comparison when you take into account the total package incl pension.

Yes they do, for the current pilots. Expect that to change with newly recruited pilots. As a newly re-invented low cost carrier. They cannot afford to continue the current salary progression. There is a strong downward pressure on pilot salaries which this current economic situation is not helping.

PhoenixRising

cp251 wrote: »

Yes they do, for the current pilots. Expect that to change with newly recruited pilots. As a newly re-invented low cost carrier. They cannot afford to continue the current salary progression. There is a strong downward pressure on pilot salaries which this current economic situation is not helping.

There is one salary scale for all ROI pilots in EI and I'm not expecting that to change. All pilots, new joiners included are paid in accordance with that scale, including sector pay and all other payments. Pilots in the Belfast base are paid at local rates, which are lower than the ROI salaries.

Tenger

Deleted at Tengers request by Mod

jonodoon

having read some of your posts, a lot of you seem very informed. apologies as i am not! im looking for information on becoming a commercial helicopter pilot, would appreciate any info on best places to train in ireland. i have already been to enniskillen airport and had my first lesson, however prices are arond 50k sterling. this does sound reasonable enough but would like to hear of other options

yaeger

Dont know too much on choppers mate only that its nearly twice the price of fixed wing for training and half the job opportunities. Train in ireland/UK will be pricey, and 50k will get you a little ways there but not alot, double it at least, and if memory serves me an IR on a chopper commercial license is really only viable if a company is financing it for you or even a turbine rating.
If 50k scares you, you need to take a deep breath and double your money.
Look to stateside maybe, plenty of european guys on J1's over in florida's space coast regional/titusville doing their training in some place called helicopter adventures or something like that.
I am no expert on choppers so best go to the flight schools and get quotes and go surf pprune for a few hours also.
Good luck

diverdriver

As Yaeger says, it's more expensive. Go to the former Helicopter Adventures website, they were set up by a couple of Irish guys. It's now Bristows. They have a fairly transparent breakdown of the costs. Any price they quote can be fairly doubled over this side of the pond.

Looking back now, I would fancy being a heli pilot but bear in mind that many a chopper pilot has quit the trade and gone fixed wing eventually. There being few regular well paid jobs out there. Even SAR eventually loses it's charm for family men and women.

It's also a terrible time to go into the any flying career. The best thing to do is to budget for an additional Flying Instructor course because that is where most of the job opportunities are for helicopter pilots. It's better paid than fixed wing instructing but still not great.

Amsterdam

Lads I would suggest some of you FR account experts check your figures. And last time I had a chat with any of the Co-Joes in Lingus they certainly weren't starting on 62k. Much less in fact. Was a drunken night tho, many of them didn't know how much a pint cost never mind their monthly take home....oh well...

skybus

And last time I had a chat with any of the Co-Joes in Lingus they certainly weren't starting on 62k. Much less in fact

Are you sure they weren't playing the recession card and leading you down the path of buying them a drink The website ppjn.com is generally a reliable enough source from my experience of the Irish airlines listed in checking the scales for these airlines.

It's not a good time to start training in any segment of the industry, be it fixed wing or helicopters. The recent announcment of a new base by Aer Lingus for example saw in the region of two thousand applications for only a handful of flying jobs. Experience ranged from TRE holders to chief pilots of recently bankrupt airlines around Europe. Salary scales in various airlines are being driven down whilst at the same time training costs are on the rise. I've no doubt Ryanair are inundated with applications also despite the fact you have to pay 30k for a type rating with them. These days you won't have much change out of 100k if you go to one of the more established training facilities around Europe.

The reality for many now is that there are very few jobs out there at the moment and I don't see a change for the next two to three years at the very least. The few jobs that are going require you to fund in the region of 30k for a type rating as someone highlighted above. Being in the industry for quite a few years now and my advice to anyone right now would be to put the money away in some stable bank for the forseeable and revisit the issue in a few years if you still have the interest.

Amsterdam

bladeruner wrote: »

Wages in Ryanair are very poor, you will never see close to €90K even as a captain...not to mention that wages in Ryanair have decreased in real terms over the last 5 years and continue to erode every year...

and as a copilot , after you have horsed up €30K for the type rating and gotten by on €1000 per month pay for the first 6 to 12 months, you will start on low wages which do not increase particularly for several years.

pity really

Where in the name of Mary Harney did you get those figures from?

AlekSmart

Prof.Drumm scribbled them down on the back of a Woodbines packet...

Amsterdam

bladeruner wrote: »

in Ryanair are very poor, you will never see close to €90K even as a captain

Afraid you may be wrong there. Quite a few brookfield skippers are pulling in substantially more than that. I've seen floating brookfield skippers with back problems carrying around their wallets.

bladeruner wrote: »

not to mention that wages in Ryanair have decreased in real terms over the last 5 years and continue to erode every year

Familiar with any of the recent pay deals?

bladeruner wrote: »

and as a copilot , after you have horsed up €30K for the type rating and gotten by on €1000 per month pay for the first 6 to 12 months, you will start on low wages which do not increase particularly for several years.

First point is correct, €30k for type rating which, depending on what contract you are on, can be claimed back.

For line training (approx 2 months) pay is €40 P.S.B.H. During this time your easily doing 85-100 hrs per 28 days. 85 by 40 according to Mr. Casio is €3,400. Which is a fair contrast to your quoted figure. After line training is complete pay rises to €60 P.S.B.H and on average you'll pull in around 75 hrs a month and usually more in the summer. So back to Mr. Casio again... He reckons 75 by 60 is €4,500. Once passing the 500 hr mark pay rises again to €80 P.S.B.H and now Mr. Casio is quoting €6,000 a month.

So on roughly €6,000 a month would bring yearly earnings to €72,000. For fairness sake we'll take away €4,500 for sim & medical costs. Total comes to €67,500.

Oh i nearly forgot..... If you use the Bog 800 times a year, best deduct another €800 from that!

bladeruner

sorry about the format of the reply, Im not great with the quotation thingies !

Amsterdam wrote: »

Afraid you may be wrong there. Quite a few brookfield skippers are pulling in substantially more than that. I've seen floating brookfield skippers with back problems carrying around their wallets.

A brookfield skipper is not a Ryanair skipper and if said brookfield skipper paid tax on what s/he earned then it wouldnt be great at all

Familiar with any of the recent pay deals?

not the most recent one,no
i take it , it wasnt a pay increase ?



First point is correct, €30k for type rating which, depending on what contract you are on, can be claimed back.

have you ever tried to claim anything back from Ryanair?
and i know for sure that it cannot be claimed back by a regular ryanair pilot through the taxman so Im sorry i just dont believe that.



For line training (approx 2 months) pay is €40 P.S.B.H. During this time your easily doing 85-100 hrs per 28 days. 85 by 40 according to Mr. Casio is €3,400. Which is a fair contrast to your quoted figure. After line training is complete pay rises to €60 P.S.B.H and on average you'll pull in around 75 hrs a month and usually more in the summer. So back to Mr. Casio again... He reckons 75 by 60 is €4,500. Once passing the 500 hr mark pay rises again to €80 P.S.B.H and now Mr. Casio is quoting €6,000 a month.
again you are quoting figures for contractors , that is irrelevant.
show me what a Ryanair pilot earns.
and by the way , as soon as you are line checked , you will fly maybe 20 to 30 hours a month because it will be cheaper to have the next guy who is paying for rating jump into the right seat

So on roughly €6,000 a month would bring yearly earnings to €72,000. For fairness sake we'll take away €4,500 for sim & medical costs. Total comes to €67,500.

again all contractor rates that you have displayed , a contractor is not a Ryanair employee .
A contractor is an employee of brookfield or storm or whatever agency is being used .

Oh i nearly forgot..... If you use the Bog 800 times a year, best deduct another €800 from that!

No argument there

Amsterdam

bladeruner wrote: »

if said brookfield skipper paid tax on what s/he earned then it wouldnt be great at all

Have you any figures to prove that? Your just making ambiguous points and not backing them up with any relevant information.

bladeruner wrote: »

and i know for sure that it cannot be claimed back by a regular ryanair pilot through the taxman so Im sorry i just dont believe that.

Im not aware of any new recruits starting on a Ryanair contract. (Willing to be corrected on that) but i have not heard of anyone in a long time being offered anything but a Brookfield contract after line training. So therefore all new recruits will have the ability to claim the type rating back.

bladeruner wrote: »

and by the way , as soon as you are line checked , you will fly maybe 20 to 30 hours a month because it will be cheaper to have the next guy who is paying for rating jump into the right seat

I'm just bewildered as to where you get these figures from! 20-30 hrs a month?! Yes it is cheaper to fly a new recruit, however as I've mentioned in a previous post, hours will drop from 100 hrs per month during training to 75 hrs per month after pay increase. Not 20-30 hrs.

bladeruner wrote: »

again all contractor rates that you have displayed , a contractor is not a Ryanair employee.

Agreed, technically a contractor is not a Ryanair employee. But the majority of pilots flying for Ryanair do not have a Ryanair contract. But to say that "Wages in Ryanair are very poor" or "you will never see close to €90K even as a captain" or "gotten by on €1000 per month pay for the first 6 to 12 months, you will start on low wages which do not increase particularly for several years" is completely untrue and unfair.

The fact of it is, for Pilots in Ryanair who have probably the best roster in the world, earn a substantial amount of europeans, as I've shown in the previous post.

wittymoniker

+1, they were a miserable shower to work for, not a world/european class salary and tough roster to live with.

Tenger

Deleted at Tengers request by Mod

ArphaRima

http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/factfile.php?id=e00a30hr6twnjuf08bamh32j6arsq61uxrvney08chmj2q6yr46
Aer Lingus
LGW/BFS much less mind you

http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/factfile.php?id=68a2bqqfu39egxp5kcbcr5mgqure99x55xv786aqzas6x5z4514
Ryanair

eponaessence

bladeruner wrote: »

Wages in Ryanair are very poor, you will never see close to €90K even as a captain...not to mention that wages in Ryanair have decreased in real terms over the last 5 years and continue to erode every year...

and as a copilot , after you have horsed up €30K for the type rating and gotten by on €1000 per month pay for the first 6 to 12 months, you will start on low wages which do not increase particularly for several years.

pity really

this is the only answere that look real to me,
my brother keep lying about his pay, he rearly fly not a 5/5 schedule flies once in a while and work for oxford as a trainer, says he works for Ryan air a s a trainer,
he has to pay for all expenses himself, has no free trips to anywhere, and flies out of Stanstead, when he happens to fly, I think he is pulling my parents legs, he says he has an account in Leichtenstaein with and agency, contract pilot, i guess, so he perhaps make more per hour when flying his zone is close by short rather so there is not alot of extra zone pay, can you give me an idea what his pay is, he apperently got his type as a junior captain, just fresh, has been with the company 5 years I think,
I would appreciate your response

eponaessence

so my brother could teq work when ever and get paid full salary? this is a mystery
he hardly flies at all, 3/5 or 5/5 and said he is a contracted pilot not a ryan air emplyee, can someone explain

ArphaRima

I cant understand you. Can you re-type?

Something to do with a contract agency which would/could be correct. Also the 5/5 and 3/5 roster pattern. But I cant understand much more.

Can you elaborate the oxford/ryanair trainer sentence?

eponaessence

hey Fluffer
I will try to explain,
well, my brother flies hardly ever and is in the sim as a trainer I think if so, ryanair contracting oxford for their sim time or so,
well, my brother said he is being paid off shore, rather in Liechtenstein he has an account, and this way evading taxes i gues, that would be 45% on his earnings, last year he declaired 18K Euro/year earning and the rest(alot according to my brother) like +100K euro/Y,
now i find this very bizzar and hard to believe, perhaps you can clear this for me,