SMART TELECOM PRICES

delllat

are smart telecom broadband packages about to be upgraded to match upc in terms of speed and hopefully value ?
I spoke to a guy today who says they have already tested 20meg and given it to some of their customers so its just a matter of them starting to sell the faster packages to new customers
Has anyone heard anything about this?

bk

Well they already have 15mb and the ADLS2+ tech they use is theoretically capable of 24mb, but realistically your not going to get more then 20mb and even at that only if you are almost next door to the telephone exchange and on a prefect line.

Smarts biggest problem is that they are way more expensive then UPC now. Their 15m/500k for €70 package is almost twice as expensive as UPCs 20m/1.5m for €40 while offering a lot less.

Over the last 12 months, Smart have been slipping badly, becoming less and less competitive. Soon when Eircom upgrades their 3m to 7.6m, it will actually be cheaper from BT and Vodafone then Smarts equivalent 8m product!!!

How the mighty have fallen.

delllat

they could at least bring the prices down a bit to help them stay competitive,id like to see them start a 20 meg package because my line is good for it going by the line checker and i cant get ntl

admol

delllat wrote: »

they could at least bring the prices down a bit to help them stay competitive,id like to see them start a 20 meg package because my line is good for it going by the line checker and i cant get ntl

IMO smart are very competitive especially when you take out eircoms line rental charge. Just take a second to compare smarts prices to eircoms or any other dsl reseller in Ireland and do the math.

Anyway the two are mutually exclusive. Based on the opinions of many here the service and support they provide is excellent versus some of the horror stories we have all heard and still do about NTL. I'll be moving to dublin soon and it will definately be smart for me.

What you want is smarts service at NTL prices which is unrealistic.

Edit: You currently pay eircom €75 for 3mb. For €70 you could get 15mb from smart and your still not happy? How much exactly do you think smart should sell 15mb broadband for?

Cabaal

delllat wrote: »

they could at least bring the prices down a bit to help them stay competitive,id like to see them start a 20 meg package because my line is good for it going by the line checker and i cant get ntl

They don't have to, there competitive against all the other ADSL providers in Ireland

watty

If they brought their prices down they would lose money.

They already offer really to the limit of waht ADSL does, some (many?) people's lines can't even go as fast as what they offer.

Exchanges are just too few. We would needed to have built 4x as many in the late 70s so as to have shorter lines. So really pulling fibre to each street and then VDSL or cable to each house is the only way forward. Some Wireless systems can beat DSL easily on speed and distance and of course UPC has been able to upgrade from plain analogue cable to Fibre + Cable (HFC).

eircom don't have the money to upgrade or add exchanges. Smart and Magnet are dependent either on eircom infrastructure or new developments done with fibre. It's only a matter of time before awkward questions are asked about exclusivity of ducts & fibre/cable on some new developments.

crawler

Not really going to comment on this other than to say - I note the comments made.

One question I will ask though is :-

Are other providers going to offer uncontended broadband and no download limits like Smart? Apples with apples

Cabaal

crawler wrote: »

Not really going to comment on this other than to say - I note the comments made.

One question I will ask though is :-

Are other providers going to offer uncontended broadband and no download limits like Smart? Apples with apples

ADSL wise...in the future I'm sure other LLU providers will, as for anyone selling Eircom Wholesales bit-stream product....don't hold your breath :pac::pac:

delllat

admol wrote: »

IMO smart are very competitive especially when you take out eircoms line rental charge. Just take a second to compare smarts prices to eircoms or any other dsl reseller in Ireland and do the math.

Anyway the two are mutually exclusive. Based on the opinions of many here the service and support they provide is excellent versus some of the horror stories we have all heard and still do about NTL. I'll be moving to dublin soon and it will definately be smart for me.

What you want is smarts service at NTL prices which is unrealistic.

Edit: You currently pay eircom €75 for 3mb. For €70 you could get 15mb from smart and your still not happy? How much exactly do you think smart should sell 15mb broadband for?

the only reason im on the eircom 3meg and not the smart 15meg was actually a matter of payment options,I was ripped off on a direct debit and it took ages to put it right,eircom was the only company we found who were willing to accept other forms of payment however i may reconsider paying by direct debit to my next isp to get a better service

bk

crawler wrote: »

One question I will ask though is :-

Are other providers going to offer uncontended broadband and no download limits like Smart? Apples with apples

When Smart first came on the market, they offered a clear difference with Eircom, Smart were twice the speed of Eircom for half the price and they maintained that gap for a long time.

However over the last 12 months I believe Smart has slipped, they have become less and less competitive and now barely challenge Eircom. To me it seems that Smart have let the accountants take over.

As I pointed out above, Eircom will be upgrading in a few weeks and they will actually be cheaper then Smart for the equivalent products. Yes Smart have uncontended BB and no download limits, but then 99% of people won't notice this, Eircom has never really enforced their caps.

My own experience is that Smart have got very scanty over the last year. I'm in a SmartVision development, I had two modems and was getting 12m/1m from both, which I felt partly made up for the terrible TV service that I had to put up with. However last November Smart limited both modems to 4m/400k when they changed the usernames and then again just three weeks ago they turned off the BB completely on one of my modems (because I was supposed to be only getting BB from one) and now Smart are talking about dropping the upload speed to 300k!!

Ironically a week later UPC intro their 20m/1.5m product for the same price as I currently pay for 4m/400k and note I'm in a SmartVision development, so there is no excuse of having to pay Eircom line rental as it is all Smarts own gear.

It is interesting to note that over in the SmartVision forum, a number of apartment developments with SmartVision are currently inviting UPC and Magnet into the developments to replace Smart.

Basically Smart have ceded the high end of the market to UPC and Magnet and I don't see how barely competing with Eircom is going to get them anywhere.

35notout

Is Smart only available in the cities (Dublin, Cork, Lim etc) or does anyone know if they will be upgrading Drogheda in the near future?!

Cabaal

bk wrote: »

However over the last 12 months I believe Smart has slipped, they have become less and less competitive and now barely challenge Eircom. To me it seems that Smart have let the accountants take over.

Maybe so but you'll remember the company nearly closed at one stage and like all business their in it to make money..

bk

Cabaal wrote: »

Maybe so but you'll remember the company nearly closed at one stage and like all business their in it to make money..

Of course, Smart were far too reckless in the past, however you can also go too far in the opposite direction, which I believe they are doing now.

Smart are a small company and a relative new entrant going up against very large incumbent companies (Eircom/UPC), with lots of resources, in a relatively mature market.

In such a situation, in order for the new company to survive and grow, is has to be disruptive and there are only two ways to do that:

1) Offer what the incumbent offers for a lot less
2) Offer a lot more then the incumbent for the same price

Or even better do both at the same time.

Unfortunately over the last few months Smart seems to be doing neither.
This could be as deadly for Smart as their previous recklessness. It is going to be hard for Smart to convince people to sign up with them rather then Eircom or UPC when Smart aren't offering much more then Eircom.

The high end customers, like most people you find here on boards, that Smart use to be able to count on are now going to UPC and Smart will find it difficult to challenge Eircoms marketing budget for the low end customers.

Bohrio

The problem is that, a few years ago, when Smart started offering their services ADSL2+ was almost nowhere in the country. Back then it was a very impressive service as Eircom could not compete with them, specially with the residential packages.

So back then Smart Telecom were a few years ahead, compared to Eircom wholesale and NTL but now it doesnt feel the that way anymore.

What you are asking Smart for cannot be done at the moment. Sooner or later Eircom, BT and any other ISP with LLU2 will start offering higher speeds to their customers, matching smart 15 mb and going up to 24 mb. NTL will introduce a new upgrade giving speeds that ADSL cannot provide, also Magnet is now introducing a 50 mb service.

In 1 or 2 years from now those now impressive 15 mb will be considered something normal. All smart can do is increase the amount of LLU Exchanges and improve their Tech Support and Customer Care service.

Decreasing the prices wont help them either as they are recovering from an economical crash. Making things cheaper will only benefit their customers but, at long term, it will bankrupt the company.

So the main thing here is that, Smart customers, people who were used to have the fastest broadband in Ireland and probably the best service are now not so far up anymore, but all good things must come to an end. Smart service was impresive 3 years ago, but not anymore.

Although, even though, they are still better than most of what eircom has to offer.

admol

bk wrote: »

Unfortunately over the last few months Smart seems to be doing neither. This could be as deadly for Smart as their previous recklessness. It is going to be hard for Smart to convince people to sign up with them rather then Eircom or UPC when Smart aren't offering much more then Eircom.

From what i can see smart are offering way more than eircom. Eircoms highest consumer package is 3Mb and even after the illusive upgrade to 7.6Mb most peoples lines won't support much more than the 3Mb. While you pay eircom €48.50 for up to 7.6Mb you can get 15Mb from smart for €45. From what i can see smart are offering much better packages than eircom considering it is uncontended with no download limit.

UPC is a different ball game but for myself considering the very positive reviews from smart customers here smart seem offer a far superior service.

bk

admol wrote: »

From what i can see smart are offering way more than eircom. Eircoms highest consumer package is 3Mb and even after the illusive upgrade to 7.6Mb most peoples lines won't support much more than the 3Mb. While you pay eircom €48.50 for up to 7.6Mb you can get 15Mb from smart for €45. From what i can see smart are offering much better packages than eircom considering it is uncontended with no download limit.

15Mb from smart for €45 - How, where, Smarts 15m/500k package costs €80, not €45, where did you get €45 from?

http://www.smarttelecom.ie/residential_package.html

Smarts 8mb/400k product costs €60, that is the comparison with Eircom.

As for people not getting the full speed from Eircom, that will be no different then Smart, they both use the same telephone lines.

Bohrio, I absolutely agree with your analysis of Smarts situation.

And the ironic thing about it is that Smart have actually partly crippled themselves. Instead of using ethernet in their fibre developments like magnet, thus allowing them to offer speeds of up to 50mb and a higher quality TV service, they have instead installed ADSL2 DSLAMS in these development, thus limiting themselves to 24mb, despite the fibre.

Meanwhile, while ordinary Smart DSL customers can get BB upto 15mb, the SmartVision customers are limited to 4m/400k and can't get anything faster, pissing off a lot of SmartVision customers.

It is very frustrating paying €75 per month for 4m/400k BB, a crappy TV service and phone (no free calls) when my neighbours, literally 15m away can get 20m/1.5m BB, a far superior TV service, unlimited local and national calls and a DVR for the exact same price.

Do Smart seriously expect us to be happy with this situation or for us to stay with Smart in the long term???

paulm17781

BK, the price you are quoting includes line rental. 48.80 for Eircom does not. Including line rental, it would be ~74 euro.

I agree with both sides how Smart probably can't offer much better for the money but surely there is a compromise? They could probably offer the 15Mb for the price of the 8Mb making it seem more appealing. Extra speed doesn't cost them, it just reduces what they can offer for it.

I would think Smart are really going to feel the effect of the UPC upgrades, Smart's customers would generally be people 'in the know' of these things. Most of these will people will start to go to UPC instead these days. They have more to lose than Eircom I would think.

admol

bk wrote: »

15Mb from smart for €45 - How, where, Smarts 15m/500k package costs €80, not €45, where did you get €45 from?

http://www.smarttelecom.ie/residential_package.html

Smarts 8mb/400k product costs €60, that is the comparison with Eircom.

As for people not getting the full speed from Eircom, that will be no different then Smart, they both use the same telephone lines.

Okay i'll compare both packages with line rental included. Thats €73.76 per month for 3Mb with Eircom and €70.36 for 15Mb with smart. Let me also add that 12Mb from Eircom costs a whopping €169 which doesn't include vat or line rental. Are you starting to see a difference here?

Also smart use ADSL2+ while eircoms residential packages won't. This means that with smart you will be able to get higher speeds even on the same telephone line

smellslikeshoes

Something people seem to be forgetting is up till 11 days or so ago Smart was the fastest broadband available and are generally considered the best provider in Ireland. I would still personally think Smart are the best even when you compare prices and speed to UPC because of the amount of negative things that have been said about UPC on this board and elsewhere.
Lets face it nobody was really expecting UPC to bring their speeds up to 20mbit so soon after bringing them up to 12mbit. Its only eleven days since they UPC upgraded and I would think that Smart will come back with something that will make them more competitive on price/speed.

bk

paulm17781 wrote: »

BK, the price you are quoting includes line rental. 48.80 for Eircom does not. Including line rental, it would be ~74 euro.

Ah yes, I was thinking more about bitstream based products from the others like BT and Vodafone which would be cheaper then Smarts equivalent.

You are right Eircom would still be more expensive.

paulm17781 wrote: »

I agree with both sides how Smart probably can't offer much better for the money but surely there is a compromise? They could probably offer the 15Mb for the price of the 8Mb making it seem more appealing. Extra speed doesn't cost them, it just reduces what they can offer for it.

I would think Smart are really going to feel the effect of the UPC upgrades, Smart's customers would generally be people 'in the know' of these things. Most of these will people will start to go to UPC instead these days. They have more to lose than Eircom I would think.

I couldn't agree more, this is pretty much what I've been saying over on the Smart forum for the last few weeks. Smart need to simplify their product range from the current 6 to just three (entry, medium and high end), make the 1mb upload standard and double the speeds of the three products (1 to 3 or 4, 4 to 8 and 8 to 16).

It still won't quiet match UPC, but it would be much more attractive and open a gap with the Bitstream based products again.

As you say, I believe that unless Smart make a big change, that it will end up hurting them far more then Eircom, not only are Smarts customers typically sophisticated, in the know high end users, but also most of Smarts LLU exchanges overlap with UPC areas.

bk

admol wrote: »

Okay i'll compare both packages with line rental included. Thats €73.76 per month for 3Mb with Eircom and €70.36 for 15Mb with smart. Let me also add that 12Mb from Eircom costs a whopping €169 which doesn't include vat or line rental. Are you starting to see a difference here?

Ok, assuming Eircom upgrade their 3m to 7.6mb in the next few weeks, here is some comparison including line rental and free unlimited local and national calls.

Smart 8mb BB + line rental and free calls (no free wireles) = €60.36
BT Either 8m * or 7.6m + line rental, free calls and free wireless router = €56
Vodafone 7.6m + line rental, free calls and free calls to 3 vodafone numbers and free wireless = €59

* 8m in BT unbundled exchanges.

Ok, this is after the upgrade, but the upgrade is coming, we all know it, Smart knows it, Smart needs to upgrade their packages our they will be in trouble.

admol

bk wrote: »

Ok, assuming Eircom upgrade their 3m to 7.6mb in the next few weeks, here is some comparison including line rental and free unlimited local and national calls.

Smart 8mb BB + line rental and free calls (no free wireles) = €60.36
BT Either 8m * or 7.6m + line rental, free calls and free wireless router = €56
Vodafone 7.6m + line rental, free calls and free calls to 3 vodafone numbers and free wireless = €59

* 8m in BT unbundled exchanges.

Ok, this is after the upgrade, but the upgrade is coming, we all know it, Smart knows it, Smart needs to upgrade their packages our they will be in trouble.

Your still not getting it. The big difference between the two packages is the technology used. Smart use ADSL2+ as i already mentioned in my previous post. This means that while most people on a 3Mb package on eircoms ADSL1 network will not support more 3Mb (just take one look at the eircom upgrade thread for evidence of this).The same customer will theoretically get a much higher speed with smart.

I know too many people who have had problems with Bt for me to ever consider them and vodafone are as of yet unproved. I will be moving to dublin soon and it will definately be samrt for me.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Skatedude

also, smart do except other payments, i just get a bill every 2 months in the post that i can pay over the phone, bank or post office etc no direct debit.

I was paying 180 for a 3 meg eircom per 2 months
now i pay 90 for 9 meg

delllat

Skatedude wrote: »

also, smart do except other payments, i just get a bill every 2 months in the post that i can pay over the phone, bank or post office etc no direct debit.

I was paying 180 for a 3 meg eircom per 2 months
now i pay 90 for 9 meg

they wouldnt accept direct debit details recently when i called them to enquire about it,they said its mandatory and even when i offered to pay a deposit the guy went to ask his manager and came back with a no
thats why we ended up going with eircom,scumbags that they are

Davy

Iolar wrote: »

tbh i think smart are extremely good value for money in comparison to eircon etc

Not available to everyone

foggy_lad

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

Something people seem to be forgetting is up till 11 days or so ago Smart was the fastest broadband available and are generally considered the best provider in Ireland. I would still personally think Smart are the best even when you compare prices and speed to UPC because of the amount of negative things that have been said about UPC on this board and elsewhere.
Lets face it nobody was really expecting UPC to bring their speeds up to 20mbit so soon after bringing them up to 12mbit. Its only eleven days since they UPC upgraded and I would think that Smart will come back with something that will make them more competitive on price/speed.

but how much of the country is smart telecom available to at these blisteringly fast speeds? they may be fast but only for a very small number of people in a very small area where they have fibre. all their other customers are in the same boat as everyone relying on p&t(eircom) to provide the speeds

paulm17781

foggy_lad wrote: »

but how much of the country is smart telecom available to at these blisteringly fast speeds? they may be fast but only for a very small number of people in a very small area where they have fibre. all their other customers are in the same boat as everyone relying on p&t(eircom) to provide the speeds

Smart only operate broadband LLU. They are not dpepndant on Eircom.

dub45

paulm17781 wrote: »

Smart only operate broadband LLU. They are not dpepndant on Eircom.

Whose lines are they using?:rolleyes:

smellslikeshoes

foggy_lad wrote: »

but how much of the country is smart telecom available to at these blisteringly fast speeds? they may be fast but only for a very small number of people in a very small area where they have fibre. all their other customers are in the same boat as everyone relying on p&t(eircom) to provide the speeds

Thats completely irrelevant, what is being talked about is where smart are.

watty

paulm17781 wrote: »

Smart only operate broadband LLU. They are not dpepndant on Eircom.

Almost all LLU lines are rented from eircom and the equipment goes in an eircom exchange, rent paid on space etc.

eircom make most of the profit.

The exception for Smart is where they have fibre in newer developments,