Transfer of UK license to Irish

craichoe

Scottie99 wrote: »

Then they are there for 2 years........I thought it was 3?

Who told you this?

As far as I know they put the details on to a foreign database. For what reason I don't know............
Yes....... apply for an Irish License and let me know how you get on! :-)

OK, couple of things there.

Theres a shadow license system in operation, if you get points in Ireland with a UK License the points will be put onto a shadow Irish license. They stay there indefinetly until you get an Irish license, once you have it then they are on there for 2 years.

I.E. the whole, lost license and swapping doesn't work anymore, they notify the DVLA that you have aquired a new license and have handed in the old one.

lynchie

Bluefoam wrote: »

Ireland and Britain have just agreed to share points across licenses. So any points gained in Ireland will go on your British license & vice versa.

No they haven't. They have pledged to look into sharing points data across Ireland and the UK. There are numerous issues to overcome such as the fact that speeding in the UK is 3 points whereas here its only 2. What will take effect from next March is sharing of banned driver data so that a driver banned from driving up north can be identified if caught driving down south or vice versa.

craichoe

lynchie wrote: »

No they haven't. They have pledged to look into sharing points data across Ireland and the UK. There are numerous issues to overcome such as the fact that speeding in the UK is 3 points whereas here its only 2. What will take effect from next March is sharing of banned driver data so that a driver banned from driving up north can be identified if caught driving down south or vice versa.

AFAIK, speeding in Ireland on an UK license gets you 2 points if you ever exchange for an Irish license. So theres no issue with matching up the points.

Our man in Havana

craichoe wrote: »

AFAIK, speeding in Ireland on an UK license gets you 2 points if you ever exchange for an Irish license. So theres no issue with matching up the points.

But those 2 points will never be on your UK licence. They will only become active when a person obtains an Irish licence, which most won't bother to do.

Also speeding in the UK is punished by a sliding scale of points from 3 for minor speeding via the fixed penalty system and up to 11 points in court with disqualification possible for the worst offenders. This compares to the 2 points fits all punishment here.

There will be problems harmonising the points system between the various jurisdictions, therfore an agreement will be a long way off.

wil

MYOB wrote: »

Both confirm you have passed a test by a competent authority and are deemed safe to drive. Nothing more, please get off the high horse as theres other members queuing for it.



British photocard ID licences last ten years, just like Irish paper ones. These are all that have been issued for some years to newly qualified drivers and those that move house.

Both my parents have full Irish driving licences, neither passed a driving test.
Gerry Ryan and Dave Fanning both have full Irish driving licences, neither passed a driving test.
Do I need to list them all?
I am not aware of anyone with full UK licence who got it without passing a driving test. It is also significantly easier to lose it.
Which system has the most integrity?

A small shetland pony is plenty sufficient. Feel free to choose your mount.;)

Paper licences are no longer issued. These are valid till 70.
But as the photocard licence is considered official ID the photo has an expiry date.
I dont know if there is any penalty for driving on an expired photo (sounds ridiculous)
Costs 17.50 to update. The licence though is valid to 70

Old address is not an issue if you are not resident in the UK.
Never had problem hiring car in UK, all they care about is credit card and passport.

UK speeding is min 3 points which last officially 3 years but effectively 4.
With cameras everywhere, I'd imagine it is not too difficult to reach 12.

G-Money

This is something I've been wondering about myself. Whether you are legally required to change your UK/Northern license for an Irish license, even if you are driving an Irish reg car?

mcwhirter

No. All eu licences should be valid.

Scottie99

Bluefoam wrote: »

Ireland and Britain have just agreed to share points across licenses. So any points gained in Ireland will go on your British license & vice versa.

As far as I know it only involves the banning drivers at this stage

craichoe

grandmaster wrote: »

This is something I've been wondering about myself. Whether you are legally required to change your UK/Northern license for an Irish license, even if you are driving an Irish reg car?

In theory .. never (until it expires of course)
Only non-eu licenses are 1 year

L1011

wil wrote: »

Both my parents have full Irish driving licences, neither passed a driving test.
Gerry Ryan and Dave Fanning both have full Irish driving licences, neither passed a driving test.
Do I need to list them all?
I am not aware of anyone with full UK licence who got it without passing a driving test. It is also significantly easier to lose it.
Which system has the most integrity?

A small shetland pony is plenty sufficient. Feel free to choose your mount.;).

There are many people who got UK driving licences without a test - I'd just doubt many of them are still alive as their test was introduced in 1934. The amnesty licences were only granted to certain classes of drivers and were due to the country not being able to afford enough testers.

All in the past. Doesn't give you any opportunity to talk down to those who hold licences gained under the current (theory test / permit / test) system. The UK honours our licences on a direct swap basis (due to being in the EEA) as we do for UK licences - hence neither is "worth" more than the other.

I've a feeling I'm probably flogging the proverbially dead horse that was formerly high here though...

Mkoop

I have both an Uk and Irish licence. Is it possible to avoid points by producing my Uk licence when caught for speeding in Ireland?

I am a current resident in Ireland.

Alun

Mkoop wrote: »

I have both an Uk and Irish licence. Is it possible to avoid points by producing my Uk licence when caught for speeding in Ireland?

I am a current resident in Ireland.

You can't legally be in possession of two licences from two EU states, so one or the another is invalid.

ART6

Alun wrote: »

Wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong. It's an EU licence and he can drive on it until it expires. He can exchange it before that time if he likes, but doesn't have to. That bit of info on the citizensinformation.ie site is possibly one of the most poorly formulated pieces of (mis-)information out there.

Correct. A UK and an Irish licence has to be renewed at age 70 if a medical examination is passed. If either is renewed immediately before the 70th birthday, then it lasts for 3 years. In Ireland, anyone who has held a full EU licence within the previous 12 years can apply for a full Irish licence.

shrapnel222 wrote: »

the flip side of this though is that if he returns to the UK, and gets stopped whilst driving there, he can be arrested for fraud, as his UK licence will not have his correct address on it, and he cannot get his UK licence changed to an Irish address, so it's always something to keep in mind if he drives in the UK regularly.

Not fraud -- an infringement of the Road Traffic Acts. The UK DVLC will not accept an Irish address. It has to be a UK one, but you can use an accommodation address. In addition, you are required to notify the DVLC immediately upon a change of address, so you can't keep an old UK address that you no longer live at.

Scottie99 wrote: »

I'm afraid your wrong, licenses last until your sixty five. I did check this out because I've been away for a while so it may have changed.
Can you show me where is says this?

No. In both the UK and Ireland they are renewable (in the UK don't have to be renewed) until you're 70 when you have to take a medical to get another one.

666bxg

Mkoop wrote: »

I have both an Uk and Irish licence. Is it possible to avoid points by producing my Uk licence when caught for speeding in Ireland?

I am a current resident in Ireland.

I'm in the same boat here.....

I'll just keep it to myself and produce whichever licence that's appropriate when asked.

I spend time at both addresses almost equally, so don't know if that's legit

Alun

666bxg wrote: »

I'm in the same boat here.....

I'll just keep it to myself and produce whichever licence that's appropriate when asked.

I spend time at both addresses almost equally, so don't know if that's legit

Again, you can't legally hold more than one licence at a time, regardless of where you live. When you, for example, exchange (note the word exchange!) your UK licence for an Irish one (or vice versa) the one you surrender becomes invalid, end of. It's also irrelevant whether it's an Irish or UK licence, or a Greek, Italian, German or French one, the same rules apply.

The reasons are obvious.

666bxg

Hold on....

I did and performed and passed BOTH the UK and Irish driving tests, and thats how I have 2 licences. Are you telling me one is invalid? I never surrendered or exchanged any of my licences...

craichoe

666bxg wrote: »

Hold on....

I did and performed and passed BOTH the UK and Irish driving tests, and thats how I have 2 licences. Are you telling me one is invalid? I never surrendered or exchanged any of my licences...

No, you passed your test and were issued a license from that state. Thats perfectly fine.

Its when you exchange your license for one thats 'lost' and forget to inform that authorities that you found it again, which is what alot of folk were doing between Ireland and the UK a while back.

blastman

wil wrote: »

Both my parents have full Irish driving licences, neither passed a driving test.
Gerry Ryan and Dave Fanning both have full Irish driving licences, neither passed a driving test.
Do I need to list them all?
I am not aware of anyone with full UK licence who got it without passing a driving test. It is also significantly easier to lose it.
Which system has the most integrity?

In theory, though, any of the people you mention could exchange their licence for a UK licence and voila, full UK licence without passing a test.

wil wrote: »

Paper licences are no longer issued. These are valid till 70.

There is still a paper part of the licence (plus the photocard) which records any points/endorsements, etc. You need to show this when hiring a car, for example.

Alun

666bxg wrote: »

Hold on....

I did and performed and passed BOTH the UK and Irish driving tests, and thats how I have 2 licences. Are you telling me one is invalid? I never surrendered or exchanged any of my licences...

Same thing. It doesn't matter how many driving tests you pass, or where, you're not allowed to hold more than one licence from two EU states, full stop.

Anyway seeing as you presumably already had a valid licence from one of those two countries and didn't need to take another for any legitimate reason (you could have simply exchanged it) the intention behind doing it (to avoid prosecution / points etc.) was clear, i.e. the very reason it's illegal.

craichoe

Alun wrote: »

Same thing. It doesn't matter how many driving tests you pass, or where, you're not allowed to hold more than one licence from two EU states, full stop.

Anyway seeing as you presumably already had a valid licence from one of those two countries and didn't need to take another for any legitimate reason (you could have simply exchanged it) the intention behind doing it (to avoid prosecution / points etc.) was clear, i.e. the very reason it's illegal.

That is impossible, for the very simple reason that in the Netherlands the RDW advise that you can keep your original and get a dutch one along side it. This applies if you are on the 30% ruling.

Its stated here in English:
http://www.eurogates.nl/en_holland_news/id/1155/

Apply at a municipal office for an ’Aanvraag omwisseling voor Nederlands rijbewijs‘ form; an uitstrekkel: a proof of your registration details; and an ’Uitgebreide Eigen Verklaring‘ a declaration of health form. There are fees for these. If you are applying under the 30% ruling you will need a statement from the tax office. You will forfeit your licence (unless applying under the 30% ruling).

So please explain how it is illegal or indeed any source which states this is the case.

Alun

craichoe wrote: »

That is impossible, for the very simple reason that in the Netherlands the RDW advise that you can keep your original and get a dutch one along side it. This applies if you are on the 30% ruling.

Its stated here in English:
http://www.eurogates.nl/en_holland_news/id/1155/

So please explain how it is illegal or indeed any source which states this is the case.

I've never come across anything like this before. What has the 30% ruling (which from what i remember is a tax thing) got to do with exchanging driving licences? And what is the authority of that website? Care to give me a pointer to the RDW website where this is explained? (I speak fluent Dutch).

EDIT: Found a reference on the RDW website in Dutch that says it allows the exchange of a driving licence from someone from a non-EU state in case the applicant falls under the 30% rule .. still can't see why that's an issue personally, but there you go. No mention of being able to keep the old one that I can see. I've never personally held much regard for many of these 'expat' website offering advice by the way. The advice they give is often wrong or misleading.

In any case, what on earth would be the point anyway when you can continue using your old licence until it expires. I don't see the point.

Also there have been pointers to the relevant EU directive banning the holding of more than one EU driving licence in the past, when this has come up. I'll try and drag it up (yet again!!).

craichoe

Alun wrote: »

I've never coma across anything like this before. What has the 30% ruling (which from what i remember is a tax thing) got to do with exchanging driving licences? And what is the authority of that website? Care to give me a pointer to the RDW website where this is explained? (I speak fluent Dutch).

In any case, what on earth would be the point anyway when you can continue using your old licence until it expires. I don't see the point.

Also there have been pointers to the relevant EU directive banning the possession of more than one EU driving licence in the past, when this has come up. I'll try and drag it up (yet again!!).

The RDW site is worse than the Belastingdienst .. it doesn't mention it on the site and was about as difficult to find out about as the BPM exemption on importing your own car.

Basically the 30% ruling gives you certain benefits (beyond the tax one) being a foreign knowledge worker, you could give the RDW a call on +31 598 39 33 30. If you don't believe me, but its quite a common thing, you get your license back in the post with your dutch one in 2 - 8 weeks

craichoe

Alun wrote: »

I've never come across anything like this before. What has the 30% ruling (which from what i remember is a tax thing) got to do with exchanging driving licences? And what is the authority of that website? Care to give me a pointer to the RDW website where this is explained? (I speak fluent Dutch).

EDIT: Found a reference on the RDW website in Dutch that says it allows the exchange of a driving licence from someone from a non-EU state in case the applicant falls under the 30% rule .. still can't see why that's an issue personally, but there you go. No mention of being able to keep the old one that I can see. I've never personally held much regard for many of these 'expat' website offering advice by the way. The advice they give is often wrong or misleading.

In any case, what on earth would be the point anyway when you can continue using your old licence until it expires. I don't see the point.

Also there have been pointers to the relevant EU directive banning the holding of more than one EU driving licence in the past, when this has come up. I'll try and drag it up (yet again!!).

I think its more to do with People requiring a driving license for work, being here on short term contracts and insurance companies not taking their foreign license for that purpose.

EDIT: I'm not trying to prove you wrong, just merely saying that you can, I indeed have an Irish driving license for Car and want to get one for bike. I rang up and asked if i can get a license for a Bike, go for lessons etc and they said no problem, I can also get the category transferred if i want and keep my original license.

While something may be deemed illegal by the EU, states still issue licenses when you pass a test just like they issue passports if you have dual citizenship

Alun

craichoe wrote: »

The RDW site is worse than the Belastingdienst .. it doesn't mention it on the site and was about as difficult to find out about as the BPM exemption on importing your own car.

Basically the 30% ruling gives you certain benefits (beyond the tax one) being a foreign knowledge worker, you could give the RDW a call on +31 598 39 33 30. If you don't believe me, but its quite a common thing, you get your license back in the post with your dutch one in 2 - 8 weeks

This was the document I found ... http://www.rdw.nl/NR/rdonlyres/F17DE460-77A7-47CA-A642-2874CF7EC24B/0/3B0992bHandleiding397.pdf

Still sounds very dodgy to me I have to say, and I still can't see why falling under the '30% regeling' (which in itself is possibly one of the most abused bits of tax regulation in the Netherlands, but that's another matter!) can have anything to do with it, when EU law overriides it. Are you sure your old Irish licence is still considered valid, i.e. the Dutch authorities haven't informed the Irish ones that it's been exchanged?

Regarding the relevant EU legislation, see the bottom of this FAQ ...

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/home/drivinglicence/faq/004_en.htm

1. Is it possible to have two driving licences issued by different Member States? No, in its Article 7(5) Directive 91/439/EEC stipulates that no person may hold a driving licence from more than one Member State. This includes withdrawn licences.

Alun

craichoe wrote: »

I think its more to do with People requiring a driving license for work, being here on short term contracts and insurance companies not taking their foreign license for that purpose.

I suppose that might conceivably be an issue, but I never had a problem getting insurance on a German licence in the Netherlands, or a Dutch licence here in Ireland.

craichoe

Alun wrote: »

This was the document I found ... http://www.rdw.nl/NR/rdonlyres/F17DE460-77A7-47CA-A642-2874CF7EC24B/0/3B0992bHandleiding397.pdf

Still sounds very dodgy to me I have to say, and I still can't see why falling under the '30% regeling' (which in itself is possibly one of the most abused bits of tax regulation in the Netherlands, but that's another matter!) can have anything to do with it, when EU law overriides it. Are you sure your old Irish licence is still considered valid, i.e. the Dutch authorities haven't informed the Irish ones that it's been exchanged?

Indeed it is great for foreigners though Although employees of European offices don't pay any tax at all, which you could say is a damn site better

Regarding the relevant EU legislation, see the bottom of this FAQ ...

Theres lots of stuff that the EU says is illegal but is still enforced in many EU states. I.E. It was Dutch law that you had to exchange your license after 1 year, but this is no longer the case as someone challenged it.

I suppose that might conceivably be an issue, but I never had a problem getting insurance on a German licence in the Netherlands, or a Dutch licence here in Ireland.

Trying being Irish, a seconded employee, in Germany with his 'Hauptwohnung' in the Netherlands with an Irish license, getting stopped by the cops is interesting to say the least.

macplaxton

Right, I've read some proper replies, read some nonsense.

1) UK licence is recognised here as are all EU licences recognised under EU mutual recognition. Whilst a licence is valid, it doesn't have to be exchange.
2) UK licence doesn't need a correct and up-to-date UK address if the holder is no longer resident, but should a replacement be required and you don't have one, you'll need to apply for an exchange.
3) Full category entitlement will be valid until the expiry date on the licence. For category B the expiry date will be the day before the holder's 70th birthday. It is lower for many of the vocational categories.
4) A paper licence is valid until expiry, (normally at 70 years-old)
5) A photocard licence is valid until expiry, (needs renewing every 10 years - if it has expired, it's not valid)

For example, whilst my ordinary entitlements are valid until 2044, my vocational ones require renewing / medical from 2019 and my photocard licence expires in 2012.

The first photocards issued by the DVLA are due for renewal shortly. If they have expired they are no longer valid.

In reply to the OP's question. There is no legal obligation to exchange it providing that it is still valid.

spav

Just to clarify - I have a full UK licence and a valid UK address (my parents') but I'm a full time resident in RoI, and will be for the foreseeable future.

Am I right in thinking that I only need to exchange my UK licence for an Irish one when my photocard is due for renewal (2011 iirc)? Also, is there any advantage in having an Irish licence over a UK one (e.g. cheaper insurance)?

macplaxton

spav wrote: »

Just to clarify - I have a full UK licence and a valid UK address (my parents') but I'm a full time resident in RoI, and will be for the foreseeable future.

Am I right in thinking that I only need to exchange my UK licence for an Irish one when my photocard is due for renewal (2011 iirc)? Also, is there any advantage in having an Irish licence over a UK one (e.g. cheaper insurance)?

Technically yes, you should exchange it when the photocard expires in 2011. No real advantage. I would hang on to what you've got.

spav

macplaxton wrote: »

Technically yes, you should exchange it when the photocard expires in 2011. No real advantage. I would hang on to what you've got.

Great, thanks.