Very low sugar / sugar free drinks

Intothesea

I think fruit juices are insulin-spike promoters rather
than smoothies (thanks to the zero fibre content),
but smoothies do tend to contain a lot more fruit
than you would average if you had to chew through
it all This would give you higher overall glycemic
load than eating one or two units of fruit, but maybe
a similar sugar-attack (GI). One way to lessen the
spiking (making for more gradual increase) in any case
is to throw some low fat natural yoghurt in aswell, or
some fat and extra fibre (probably not as tasty) :pac:

Tar.Aldarion

I do put low fat natural organic best ever yogurt into mine. I eat the yogurt anyway so may as well put it in. To make a smoothie takes as little as a banana and a handful of berries, I'd actually probably eat more fruit if I was just chewing it. Mine have less fruit than a fruit salad etc. Smoothies tend to have a low to intermediate GI I believe, depending on what you put in them. It also depends on what is in your stomach and what you eat with the smoothie, this all changes the GI.

Intothesea

Good stuff Tara, I don't think many people
combine like that, or limit the fruit too much
when they smoothie-up. Just adding some
general info

cozmik

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

lower Gi, higher fibre, more filling and takes you longer to eat so more likely to be more satisfying, you also tend to eat more peel of fruit like apples or plums if you eat whole.

+1 for chewing!

Chewing is an extremely important, yet oftentimes overlooked, part of healthy digestion. Most people put food in their mouth, chew a few times and swallow their food, as if their sole focus was how quickly they could get their foods to their stomachs.

The action of chewing mechanically breaks down very large aggregates of food molecules into smaller particles. This results in the food having increased surface area, an important contributing factor to good digestion. In addition to the obvious benefit of reduced esophageal stress that accompanies swallowing smaller, versus larger, pieces of food, there is another very important benefit to chewing your food well that comes with its ability to be exposed to saliva for a longer period of time.

The chemical process of digestion begins with chewing

Food's contact with saliva is not just important because it helps to lubricate the food, making it easier for foods (notably dried ones) to pass easier through the esophagus, but because saliva contains enzymes that contribute to the chemical process of digestion. Carbohydrate digestion begins with salivary alpha-amylase as it breaks down some of the chemical bonds that connect the simple sugars that comprise starches. Additionally, the first stage of fat digestion also occurs in the mouth with the secretion of the enzyme lingual lipase by glands that are located under the tongue.

Chewing is directly connected with the movement of food through your digestive tract, and in particular, with the movement of your food from your stomach into your small intestine. At the lower end of your stomach, there is a muscle called the pylorus. This muscle must relax in order for food to leave your stomach and pass into your small intestine. Sufficient saliva from optimal chewing helps relax the pylorus, and in this way, helps your food move through your digestive tract in healthy fashion.

The benefits of thoroughly chewing your food will extend beyond improved digestion. It will cause you to slow down when you are eating, making more space for the enjoyment of your meal. Food will begin to taste even better when there is more focus and concentration on the process and act of eating.

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=36

MJOR

Celticwarrior wrote: »

Don't like Tea or sparkling water!

I don't understand about the NAS, if i take ones that have very low amounts of sugar in it surely it'd be ok?

I like the water with lemon idea! Should I get a fresh lemon or is that squirty lemon juice ok?

Water with fresh lemon or ice.... I feel your pain! I drink a lot of diet coke ( two cans per day)

Tar.Aldarion

Most if not all of that is not applicable to a smoothie. Also, it has the largest surface area possible when blended.
That basicaly says you should chew solid food a good bit which is obvious.

cozmik

Tara Le d'Arion wrote: »

Most if not all of that is not applicable to a smoothie.

Of course it is. :rolleyes:

Your mouth is the best place to blend fruit!

regards

cozmik

Tar.Aldarion

]The action of chewing mechanically breaks down very large aggregates of food molecules into smaller particles.
a blender does it better
This results in the food having increased surface area, an important contributing factor to good digestion.
a blender does it better, giving max surface area
Food's contact with saliva is not just important because it helps to lubricate the food, making it easier for foods (notably dried ones) to pass easier through the esophagus, but because saliva contains enzymes that contribute to the chemical process of digestion.
you swallow saliva all the time, there is no problem. You do not need to lubricate a smoothie

Chewing is directly connected with the movement of food through your digestive tract, and in particular, with the movement of your food from your stomach into your small intestine. At the lower end of your stomach, there is a muscle called the pylorus. This muscle must relax in order for food to leave your stomach and pass into your small intestine. Sufficient saliva from optimal chewing helps relax the pylorus, and in this way, helps your food move through your digestive tract in healthy fashion.

I take it you chew water when drinking it to improve digestion of material in your stomach?

El_Dangeroso

Did you see the f word last week? They were very scathing of smoothies.. with good reason, they contain a ridiculous amount of sugar and calories. Arsenic is 'natural', doesn't mean it's good for ya

Also, liquid calories aren't as satiating as solid ones (whatever the macronutrient composition - so much for protein shakes..):

Reference: Effects of food form on appetite and energy intake in lean and obese young adults. International Journal of Obesity. 2007 Nov (11):1688-95. Mourao DM, Bressan J, Campbell WW, Mattes RD. Department of Foods and Nutrition, Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN 47907-2059, USA.


Plus, do you really eat 1 banana, 1/2 an apple, 4 strawberries, a small orange and a yoghurt in one go? Kudos..

But back on topic.. Aspartame is the devil, just as bad as sugar long term.. don't get me started on diet coke..

I love cooled fruit tea's with soda water and lemon.. your tastebuds will take a while to adjust but it's quite yummy on a summer's day..

Tar.Aldarion

neddas wrote: »

Did you see the f word last week? They were very scathing of smoothies.. with good reason, they contain a ridiculous amount of sugar and calories. Arsenic is 'natural', doesn't mean it's good for ya

I don't watch tv but have seen it once or twice when somebody was watching it. God I hate that man, seems like good watching though. 'That's why you are in the **** you fat idiot'.
Smoothies don;t contain a ridiculous amount of calories and sugar, that is all aimed at smoothies you buy in a supermarket and not smoothies you make, where you know exactly how much sugar and calories go into it. An innocent smoothie may have a small tree of fruit in it but mine don't :-p

Also, liquid calories aren't as satiating as solid ones (whatever the macronutrient composition - so much for protein shakes..):

Reference: Effects of food form on appetite and energy intake in lean and obese young adults. International Journal of Obesity. 2007 Nov (11):1688-95. Mourao DM, Bressan J, Campbell WW, Mattes RD. Department of Foods and Nutrition, Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN 47907-2059, USA.

That is only a problem if you are overweight, can't control yourself and so on. I doubt anybody feels sated after some whole fruit anyway! If one feels they have to eat more because it is in liquid form they shouldn't be drinking smoothies or protein shakes etc. I'd say some people are like that but I certainly feel satisfied after mine and won't just go and have a big meal. Especially in the case of soup, consume soup and you are full, that's the case for me, all sated out. :-)

Plus, do you really eat 1 banana, 1/2 an apple, 4 strawberries, a small orange and a yoghurt in one go? Kudos..

Nah, those type of smoothies are generally store bought, not even zumo and the like would have that variety of fruit in a smoothie.Maybe without the orange, somebody might make that.

But back on topic.. Aspartame is the devil, just as bad as sugar long term.. don't get me started on diet coke..

No, I wouldn't drink diet coke, I'd avoid it more than coke, heh. Ugh.

El_Dangeroso

Hang on a sec.. the title of the topic is: very low sugar/sugar free drinks..

What magical ingredients go into into your smoothies to make it low in sugar then? :P

I take exception to the 'people who are overweight, can't control themselves etc..' comment.. like someone who's overweight must just lack self control.. rather than lacking the skinny gene's you're so luckily blessed with..

Soup is perceived as a meal, smoothies are perceived as a beverage.. so someone could easily eat 3 meals a day and a smoothie getting an extra 250 cals or so a day if they're not careful (most people are not careful - see obesity statistics).

I can think of better things to use 250 cals on that doesn't have the texture of cold baby vomit

Tar.Aldarion

Ah yeah, on my first post I said they are not vey low in sugar but that they were better that what he drank, good for you and still tasted great. That he should maybe use them as a stepping stone and ideally move on to water. A smoothie would be a bout 10-15% of the standard man rda for sugar, so you still have that 85-90 spare til you move on to water. :-p

El_Dangeroso

Ah RDA's, we all know they're infallible..

Why not just save yourself the bother and eat the fruit? What magical properties of fruit are brought out by zizzing it in a blender?

Fruit is designed to make us put on weight so early man could survive harsh winters.. there's a reason it ripens in Autumn..

Tar.Aldarion

They are not exactly accurate, the point is still the same, you only get a fraction of what you should eat from the smoothie, it won't make you gain weight unless you go crazy.


The reason I blend the fruit is because it tastes way better to me, that's about it! I also suggest smoothie instead of fruit because he wants something he can drink.

I forgot that fruit ripens in autumn because the trees want to fatten us. :pac:
If you put fruit in a paper bag it ripens because paper bags are designed to make us fat.
j/k

El_Dangeroso

Hur hur...yep, just like the cows grow up so we can eat them.. having a bit of podge in winter meant the difference of living or dying in some cases, but we were never meant to consume fruit all year round, especially pre-digested in a glass with some yoghurt.. :pac:

If you wanna eat them knock yourself out but don't go round promoting them like you're missing out if you don't have them. Plus, if you've never been overweight then your assertion that it doesn't make you fat is merely speculation based on your own limited experience..

Wheras, I sir, have science on my side:

A study has shown that fructose - which is used to sweeten soft drinks and junk food - might be more harmful than other types of sugar.
In tests, fat people given large doses of fructose were more likely to put on weight around the stomach than those given glucose.
Doctors say this 'intra-abdominal fat' is the most harmful type and is linked to diabetes and heart disease.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1029501/Can-fruit-make-fat-Natural-sugar-fruit-fuelling-nations-obesity-epidemic.html

Tar.Aldarion

neddas wrote: »

Hur hur...yep, just like the cows grow up so we can eat them.. having a bit of podge in winter meant the difference of living or dying in some cases, but we were never meant to consume fruit all year round, especially pre-digested in a glass with some yoghurt.. :pac:

Why does it matter when we were meant to eat fruit? Who decides when we are meant to eat anything? Because trees didn't grow it all year round? So?
Maybe we were meant to be able to grow it all year round to eat it due to our intelligence? It doesn't matter when we were 'meant' to eat it, why would it?

If you wanna eat them knock yourself out but don't go round promoting them like you're missing out if you don't have them. Plus, if you've never been overweight then your assertion that it doesn't make you fat is merely speculation based on your own limited experience..

I can promote them if I want, they are good for you.

Wheras, I sir, have science on my side:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1029501/Can-fruit-make-fat-Natural-sugar-fruit-fuelling-nations-obesity-epidemic.html

First off, lol at a study on 33 people...over a few weeks. Although I'm sure others may show the same or whatever.
Next, it is obvious that excess sugar is bad for you, it is obvious that different types of sugar are not the same. It would also be obvious that fructose would fuel the obesity problem, it is in softdrinks et al. It also has a lower GI that glucose(it is recommended to diabetics over glucose said my diabetic friend, some would disagree with that, doctors disagree with each other over all this stuff), there are bad and good things about sugars and they should not be eaten in excess. It is not obvious that we should not eat fruit and vegetables that would contain fructose.
It's very easy to get links saying glucose or fructose is bad for you.

El_Dangeroso

Tara Le d'Arion wrote: »

Why does it matter when we were meant to eat fruit? Who decides when we are meant to eat anything? Because trees didn't grow it all year round? So?
Maybe we were meant to be able to grow it all year round to eat it due to our intelligence? It doesn't matter when we were 'meant' to eat it, why would it?

I can promote them if I want, they are good for you.

When could we start growing fruit all year round? I didn't realise the human race's digestive systems can evolve that quickly.. 10,000 years (oldest modern agriculture) is an evolutionary second.

Plus the fruit we eat today is genetically bred to be super-sweet.. compare a granny smith with a crab apple and you get the idea.

Why are they better for you than fruit? Because if they're not then there's no reason to consume them over fruit is there?

Tara Le d'Arion wrote: »

First off, lol at a study on 33 people...over a few weeks. Although I'm sure others may show the same or whatever.
Next, it is obvious that excess sugar is bad for you, it is obvious that different types of sugar are not the same. It would also be obvious that fructose would fuel the obesity problem, it is in softdrinks et al. It also has a lower GI that glucose(it is recommended to diabetics over glucose said my diabetic friend, some would disagree with that, doctors disagree with each other over all this stuff), there are bad and good things about sugars and they should not be eaten in excess. It is not obvious that we should not eat fruit and vegetables that would contain fructose.
It's very easy to get links saying glucose or fructose is bad for you.

Yes, I much prefer studies based on 65,000 people's questionaire answers, because if your looking for human studies on nutrition, that's your choice. I prefer metabolic ward studies like this one, because there's very little room for error. It's all a big coincidence that the people in the control group all had the same reactions.. couldn't be the ONE difference in their diet that did it..nooo, that would be impossible!


Yep fructose is low GI, it doesn't enter the blood stream in the form of glucose, it is processed by the liver where it is triggers the production of triglycerides..

1. Bantle, J.P., Raatz, S.K., Thomas, W., & Georgopoulos, A. (2000). Effects of dietary fructose on plasma lipids in healthy subjects. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 72, 1128-1134

Hmm fructose consumption = raised triglyceride's

Fruit contains fructose as one of its main sugars..

But fruit = healthy

Sounds like we should all raise our triglycerides to be healthy!

There's a reason why it's easy to get a hold of those studies.. the super-secret anti-fruit council!! Shhh, they'll hear us..

Tar.Aldarion

I'm not going to even bother arguing that with you, fruit is clearly the devil(and we can only digest it in autumn due to evolution), along with the vegetables containing it and of course carbohydrates are a no go area too.

Fruits are generally high in fiber, water and vitamin C. Fruits also contain various phytochemicals that do not yet have an RDA/RDI listing under most nutritional factsheets, and which research indicates are required for proper long-term cellular health and disease prevention.[25] Regular consumption of fruit is associated with reduced risks of cancer, cardiovascular disease, stroke, Alzheimer disease, cataracts, and some of the functional declines associated with aging.[26]

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/78/3/517S

It's all a big coincidence that the people in the control group all had the same reactions.. couldn't be the ONE difference in their diet that did it..nooo, that would be impossible!

It did not say that, it said they were 'more likely' to and it did not say how much more or if it was significantly more and did not mention how many of them is 'more likely'. First the diet is messed with for two weeks then they are put on a completely different unhealthy diet again. Then they gain 1.5kg around their bodies, they both gain it in certain areas, some 'more in one area, how much more? How 'tiny' is the difference I am thinking. What age were these people, what sex, what was their diet before hand, what was their medical histories, what diseases did they have? How overwight were they already? Yeah, conclusive.

El_Dangeroso

Tara Le d'Arion wrote: »

I'm not going to even bother arguing that with you, fruit is clearly the devil(and we can only digest it in autumn due to evolution), along with the vegetables containing it and of course carbohydrates are a no go area too.

It did not say that, it said they were 'more likely' to and it did not say how much more or if it was significantly more and did not mention how many of them is 'more likely'. First the diet is messed with for two weeks then they are put on a completely different unhealthy diet again. Then they gain 1.5kg around their bodies, they both gain it in certain areas, some 'more in one area, how much more? How 'tiny' is the difference I am thinking. What age were these people, what sex, what was their diet before hand, what was their medical histories, what diseases did they have? How overwight were they already? Yeah, conclusive.

Show me some completely clad iron conclusive study on human subjects and I'll show you a fake study.. so we go on the scant, flawed evidence that we do have.. even if the study doesn't prove that increased fructose consumption will lead every person to get heart disease. But you won't be able to find completely clad iron conclusive study that smoking causes lung cancer.

In this uncertain world, we use what is referred to as 'The weight of the evidence' (no pun intended) This phrase is used to signify that the proof on one side, of a cause is greater than on the other.

Causation and correlation are two different things, Because A and B coexist, doesn't mean A implies B or B implies A. That's a common error in epidemiological studies... Those who ate fruit could have smoked less, or ate less sugar generally, or rubbed their tummies more, or wore green shirts on a Tuesday... The difference with my study is that there was a control group that had the exact same diet as the test group, bar ONE thing.

The fact that each of the participants varied in genetics and yet had consistant results is even more convincing!

You should read 'the diet delusion' by Gary Taubes. It offers a really good background on the 'science' of scientific studies..

Sugar Drunk

Hi Op, i used to be the same as you. Drank 1-2 cans of coke every day working in the office. even worse when I used to work outdoors for a summer drank 3-4 cans a day!.
Coca cola is addictive I realise that now. I used to crave the stuff and feel crap an hour after drinking it.
I now just drink green tea and water as everything else either contains sugar or chemicals like aspartame etc (nearly worse than sugar IMO).
Aim to stop drinking junk altogether and work on gradually cutting down. If you try stop cold turkey it ,ost likely wont work but cut back to one can a day, then one can every second day etc. try green tea too as the taste of it means sweet things dont apopeal to you as much! theres also loads of fruit teas out there theres got to be one that tastes okay to you. same with water i hate som ebrands but everyone will have one they like the taste of
What I do now is I only allow myself to have coca cola every so often, if I am out for a meal etc and it has worked great for me I never touch the stuff monday - friday and my energy levels in work are more stable

Celticwarrior

Sugar Drunk wrote: »

Hi Op, i used to be the same as you. Drank 1-2 cans of coke every day working in the office. even worse when I used to work outdoors for a summer drank 3-4 cans a day!.
Coca cola is addictive I realise that now. I used to crave the stuff and feel crap an hour after drinking it.
I now just drink green tea and water as everything else either contains sugar or chemicals like aspartame etc (nearly worse than sugar IMO).
Aim to stop drinking junk altogether and work on gradually cutting down. If you try stop cold turkey it ,ost likely wont work but cut back to one can a day, then one can every second day etc. try green tea too as the taste of it means sweet things dont apopeal to you as much! theres also loads of fruit teas out there theres got to be one that tastes okay to you. same with water i hate som ebrands but everyone will have one they like the taste of
What I do now is I only allow myself to have coca cola every so often, if I am out for a meal etc and it has worked great for me I never touch the stuff monday - friday and my energy levels in work are more stable

I can drink 2l a day quite easily without noticing. Now before people go ranting at me about how bad it is etc, I agree. I'm trying to change. I'm getting better at the moment, I'm trying to do as you say and ration it in time periods and only drink it at certain times of the day.

I've also started doing some of the easy ways of cutting it back, like if I'm at the cinema, not getting a drink or just getting a bottle of water. Or if I am out at night, a pint of water with a dash of miwadi. I don't crave it those times, I just want a drink of something to go with the movie or something for my hand on a night out.


The thing is, I don't think I am addicted to it, and I know this is a contradiction, I just am in the habit of drinking it. As in I've gone days, weeks etc without drinking it and never had a serious cravings / withdrawal symptoms. I just like the taste, and if it's there I'm going to drink it.

What I realised is that I crave ice cold drinks more than I crave coke. So I've started buying bottled water and putting miwadi no added sugar in, and as someone else suggested sometimes putting a slice of lemon in it. It's all helping and making a difference. I'm probably down to a litre most days now, which is nearly at my target of 0-500ml.

I've noticed very little difference in sleep patterns etc, except that instead of constantly needing to pee alot before I sleep, I seem to need to pee alot more during the day (I presume cos of the water) and now less at night, which is a preferred outcome.

My concentration levels have dropped, I'll admit that. But I am ok in the morning and the evening, so now I just drink it in the afternoon to make up for that small slump.

I don't drink Tea or Coffee at all, so I figure I am getting down to something respectable.

Cheers for the suggestions all, the lemon one was particularly good and if anyone has anymore I'll give them a whirl!

Sugar Drunk

Celticwarrior wrote: »

I've also started doing some of the easy ways of cutting it back, like if I'm at the cinema, not getting a drink or just getting a bottle of water. Or if I am out at night, a pint of water with a dash of miwadi. I don't crave it those times, I just want a drink of something to go with the movie or something for my hand on a night out.

well done those are great steps already. Your right it becomes a habit - go to cinema- drink coke, takeaway - drink coke, etc I was the same.

It does mean that you have less sugar energy at work but i find foods like bananas and almonds etc in the morning give me a bit of energy and sparkling water is great - its fizzy without being a fizzy drink. Find a water brand you really lik ethe taste of it makes a difference im a volvic addict now!

cozmik

Tara Le d'Arion wrote: »

there are bad and good things about sugars and they should not be eaten in excess. It is not obvious that we should not eat fruit and vegetables that would contain fructose.

+1

Dr. Parks said that people trying to lose weight shouldn't eliminate fruit from their diets but that limiting processed foods containing the sugar may help.

"There are lots of people out there who want to demonize fructose as the cause of the obesity epidemic," she said. "I think it may be a contributor, but it's not the only problem. Americans are eating too many calories for their activity level. We're overeating fat, we're overeating protein; and we're overeating all sugars."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080724064824.htm

El_Dangeroso

"I think it may be a contributor"

Oh, shot yourself in the foot there..

My whole point is that fruit is not equal to vegetables, in fact non starchy veg kicks the ass of fruit nutritionally speaking, you can get all (more) of the nutrients from veg without the insulin and fructose load.

Beks

dubman25 wrote: »

no no no do not drink smoothies.If you want fruit eat it as its much better for you and thats a fact.
you could try diet cidona,diet orange,diet coke,ribena with no added sugar and so on but remember try not to drink to much of either as cant be good for you...but i dont listen anyway;)

What are you talking about. Smoothies are fine for you, in moderation. Just like everything is ok in moderation. It's pretty funny you're telling this person to avoid smoothies and then go on to recommend several diet drinks which are high in aspartame which has around 93 bad side effects - weight gain and cancer being two of them!

I would recommend smoothies, juices, cordial like elderflower, rice milk... not sure what other cold drinks. I don't like coffee that much and I gave up on normal tea a long time ago seeing as I don't drink cow's milk... I drink green tea and fruit tea now.

Tar.Aldarion

neddas wrote: »

"I think it may be a contributor"

Oh, shot yourself in the foot there..

Not really, what he means by that is fat people eating sugary foods is of course a contributer to them being fat. If people eat too much sugar then fruit can be bad for them, as it has sugar in it, which will add to the already high dosage of sugar they are eating. It is contributing to their gain in weight. If anything they should get rid of the processed foods that contain the other sugar in their diet, not fruit.