Direct access UK

Oryx

Anyone from Ireland gone over to the UK to do a direct access bike test? Where you train for a week and then (hopefully) pass and get your full licence?

Looking for info on how tricky it is to do the UK theory test, and what the issues are for getting a prov UK licence, or whether an Irish one covers you.

I have done a web trawl and am asking mates in the UK, but just interested to see if anyone has been through the process.

Dub13

Sounds expensive.I presume the point is to then transfer your UK license to an Irish one...?

Oryx

Dub13 wrote: »

Sounds expensive.I presume the point is to then transfer your UK license to an Irish one...?

Yes, that would be the idea.

Over here there is no such thing as direct access, and I think you have to wait 6 months before even doing the test? As well as wearing the lovely L bib. Its something Im looking into, both for me, as I never got my finger out to get a full licence (and currently only drive a car) and for others in the same situation, it would be handy to know how it goes as Im in the trade. I know lots of riders who would use it if it was easily done.

Dub13

Do you not need a UK address....?

Oryx

Dub13 wrote: »

Do you not need a UK address....?

Thats the kind of thing Im not sure of, but for me that wouldnt be a problem anyway.

Hotblack Desiato

You will need a UK address to get a UK provisional, but also proof of residence (bills etc.) as the UK authorities got wise to this a couple of years ago.

ROI provisional is useless outside the 26 counties. No direct access in NI.

No point in transferring a UK full licence to an Irish one, it lasts until age 70 and (for the next few years at least) you can't get penalty points on it.

Oryx

ninja900 wrote: »

You will need a UK address to get a UK provisional, but also proof of residence (bills etc.) as the UK authorities got wise to this a couple of years ago.

Knocks it on the head, so.:)

ROI provisional is useless outside the 26 counties. No direct access in NI.

No point in transferring a UK full licence to an Irish one, it lasts until age 70 and (for the next few years at least) you can't get penalty points on it.

Interesting point.

MrPudding

Dub13 wrote: »

Sounds expensive.I

From zero experience to full unrestricted licence in £530. I would not call that expensive. Though that does not cover the theory test and cost of the provisional licence. It does cover all your gear except boots, CBT, training on a 125 (if required,) training on a 500 and the test. Where I went the deal was if you failed they would continue to train you at no additional cost (apart from the retest fee,) until you passed the test.

MrP

Dub13

MrPudding wrote: »

From zero experience to full unrestricted licence in £530. I would not call that expensive. Though that does not cover the theory test and cost of the provisional licence. It does cover all your gear except boots, CBT, training on a 125 (if required,) training on a 500 and the test. Where I went the deal was if you failed they would continue to train you at no additional cost (apart from the retest fee,) until you passed the test.

MrP

What I meant was if you were to travel over from Ireland you would have to add in flights/ferry plus a weeks accommodation.If you are based in the UK its a different story.

murphaph

I wouldn't bother with direct access so long as the irish law is so badly written you can ride practically anything on a 'restricted' licence anyway.

Del2005

I looked into doing a while ago, but the proof of residency to get a UK licence was too hard for me. You need to get a Registar/Solicitor etc to confirm your identity and also that you live over there. Would need to know someone very well for them to lie on offical documents for me.

Apart from that it would have been handy to get it all out of the way in a week or so.

robinph

I've kept hold of my UK license and use of a postal address over there since I left. But they must know I'm not actually living there as I have to get my license renewed every three years due to medical conditions and use Irish addresses on that paperwork which has never been questioned ... yet.

I keep thinking of doing one of these week long courses to get my bike license, but never quite got motivated enough for it yet, or figured out how to go about doing the theory test before hand either which would require an additional flight over or trip up to Belfast I guess.

Del2005

robinph wrote: »

I've kept hold of my UK license and use of a postal address over there since I left. But they must know I'm not actually living there as I have to get my license renewed every three years due to medical conditions and use Irish addresses on that paperwork which has never been questioned ... yet.

There is no issue with renewing your licence in a different country once in the EU. It's just to get the 1st provisional licence and from what I remember from the UK DVLA website you needed to get a document signed to prove your residency, not too sure how it would work when you already have a UK licence

I keep thinking of doing one of these week long courses to get my bike license, but never quite got motivated enough for it yet, or figured out how to go about doing the theory test before hand either which would require an additional flight over or trip up to Belfast I guess.

Belfast is no good for the test. They have different DVLA's and the NI one is inline with ours so no DA up there and the theory test for NI wouldn't give you the unrestricted provisional licence.

It's worth your while to go over if you can get a provisional licence, only take 4 flights in total, and do the DA. You can then legally ride whatever you want and don't have to worry if the Gardai suddenly decide to try and clamp down. You also don't have any insurance worries.

Hotblack Desiato

Short of acquiring a mobile dyno in a van (and a scales, and rewriting the law to define how the weight should be measured) there is no possible way for the Gardai to clamp down on this law.

It is bad law - unenforceable and with no safety benefit, it's just even more silly here in Ireland than it is in the rest of the EU. Unfortunately we can expect more and more of the same, nobody give a sh*t about motorcyclists unless they want to ban something.

Del2005

ninja900 wrote: »

Short of acquiring a mobile dyno in a van (and a scales, and rewriting the law to define how the weight should be measured) there is no possible way for the Gardai to clamp down on this law.

Sort of similar, the Gardai don't have to provide proof you where speeding for a conviction so I'd assume they can use their own judgement over the this.

Another way they can do it is drive the bike. A restricted bike shouldn't be able to break ~120mph if they take the bike for a spin and get faster then they'll know it's not restricted. I've heard of them doing this, not sure if it's an urban legend thought.

But I'm not too worried about the Gardai, it's the insurance that'll do you. They don't need proof to reject a claim, it's up to you to prove you're legit.

It is bad law - unenforceable and with no safety benefit, it's just even more silly here in Ireland than it is in the rest of the EU. Unfortunately we can expect more and more of the same, nobody give a sh*t about motorcyclists unless they want to ban something.

+1

Hotblack Desiato

Del2005 wrote: »

Sort of similar, the Gardai don't have to provide proof you where speeding for a conviction so I'd assume they can use their own judgement over the this.

Wrong, nobody can be convicted of anything without proof. What matters is the standard of proof the law requires.
For speeding, the law says the opinion of one garda following you in a vehicle with a speedo, or two gardai if there is no speedo (on foot).
So two gardai could see you go past, form an opinion that you were speeding and issue a ticket, that is the standard of proof written into that law (and it is unusually low.)

Now the law doesn't say that gardai can 'form an opinion' on how heavy your bike is, or how much power it has, without documentary proof they would have a hard time convincing a judge unless your solicitor is useless.

Another way they can do it is drive the bike.

No, they can't, there is no speed restriction set down in law, and they cannot drive your vehicle without your permission, they can tow it away but not drive it.

But I'm not too worried about the Gardai, it's the insurance that'll do you. They don't need proof to reject a claim, it's up to you to prove you're legit.

Again how are you or they supposed to prove anything with a smashed up bike that won't run on a dyno? They will have to pay out unless they can prove you broke your policy conditions. They may make life hard for you and you may have to go to the insurance ombudsman, but just saying "we think your bike was illegal" isn't good enough.

A straight cc limit would have been enforceable and everyone would know where they stand.

Del2005

ninja900 wrote: »

Wrong, nobody can be convicted of anything without proof. What matters is the standard of proof the law requires.
For speeding, the law says the opinion of one garda following you in a vehicle with a speedo, or two gardai if there is no speedo (on foot).
So two gardai could see you go past, form an opinion that you were speeding and issue a ticket, that is the standard of proof written into that law (and it is unusually low.)

They have no need to supply any certification or calibration for their speed guns, hence IMO they have no proof of speeding.

Now the law doesn't say that gardai can 'form an opinion' on how heavy your bike is, or how much power it has, without documentary proof they would have a hard time convincing a judge unless your solicitor is useless.

No, they can't, there is no speed restriction set down in law, and they cannot drive your vehicle without your permission, they can tow it away but not drive it.

I was using the speed as a point, a 25kW bike will struggle to break 120mph reguardless of how heavy or streamlined it is.

The Gardai can and do drive vehicles all the time. It's will be the same difference really, they impound the bike till you prove you're legit (god knows how) or they take it for a spin.

Again how are you or they supposed to prove anything with a smashed up bike that won't run on a dyno? They will have to pay out unless they can prove you broke your policy conditions. They may make life hard for you and you may have to go to the insurance ombudsman, but just saying "we think your bike was illegal" isn't good enough.

A straight cc limit would have been enforceable and everyone would know where they stand.

I don't know, maybe look for the restrictors in the exhaust/inlet.

Who really cares anyway. The Gardai aren't/can't enforce it and insurance don't care. I was only pointing out that if you went for a UK DA licence then you wouldn't have the tiny little worry in the back of your mind.

murphaph

There was never any worry in my mind when I was under the 'restriction' and riding my TDM/VFR both unrestricted. The insurance company must cover you if you have a licence for the class of vehicle so again it comes back to what the law defines. It is simply way to open to interpretation for an insurance company to attempt to defraud you of your compensation should you have an accident! It is the insurance company who would have to prove your 'restricted' licence didn't allow you to ride that bike under the law.

Without pressure from the insurance companies to amend the legislation to actually enforce what the 2nd driving licence directive intended, this law will likely remain unaltered. Ride what you like!

Hotblack Desiato

A lot of people with restricted licences will only have third party insurance anyway, because of the cost. Any third party claims have to be paid out, no matter what the policyholder does.