Waterford hitting the wall.

20 Times 20 Times

First of all , where is all the Eircom league supporters of late ? This is massive news i reckon.

For those of you guys that don't know , Waterford have announced that all their players are now free agents , as they cannot guarantee their wages every week. There is also talk that the players will not turn up for next weeks match against Wexford youths , which is a real shame seen a once proud club crumble like this.

What are peoples thoughts on this , Now they were not over paying players. Just seems that the sponsorships and gate receipts are not coming in.

This means that really its between , ourselves(dundalk) and shels to go up next season. MASSIVE game next week in tolka.

Pure Cork

They were getting an average of 7-800 people at games and they budgeted for 1000 I think. They don't have very wealthy owners who can afford to sustain the club regardless of attendance like Pat$.

Considering there is a population of 50000 in Waterford, their attendances are disappointing to say the least. But every club in the LOI has to contend with this.

LOI football is in trouble at the moment...

DSB

If they'd budgeted for 1000 in the First Division then perhaps they were overpaying players. Important to remember that when you've to play sides like Monaghan and Sporting Fingal there is very little prospect of away fans bumping up your attendance.

Zebra3

Sarge wrote: »

First of all , where is all the Eircom league supporters of late ? This is massive news i reckon.

Shame that it is, this has been on the cards for ages.

Everyone expected it.

loyatemu

weren't they getting crowds of several thousand when they were in the premier division?

bad news for the EL if they do fold - its very Dublin-centric as it is, losing a potentially big club from one of the other cities won't help that.

gimmick

Several thousands, hardly. I think in their first season back in the premier they got a few 4000+, but those days are long gone. Lasts time I was in the RSC, the Cork City fans outnumbered the home fans, and we had about 800 there.

FFS, when Waterford got to the Cup Final against Longford, they brought something silly like 3500 fans.

The appetite for a team in Waterford does not seem to be there, which is a shame.

OhNoYouDidn't

Can people get a grip here. Waterford are not about to fold - they are trimming their wage bill in accordance with their attendences. Tough on the players involved, but in the scheme of things good that clubs are tackling issues head on.

gimmick

But it is not good at all for the league to be constantly hearing this.

At the moment

- Cobh are looking at resigning from the eL

- Galway have told all their players they can leave for free, and are going back part time next season.

- Sligo have a transfer embargo on them, had to sell one of their best players, and are going back part time next season.

- Drogheda, and this is pretty much completely unconfirmed, need to trim their wage bill and fast as they cannot cope with their wage bill at present.

- Cork City, looking like there may be further releases before a player can be signed. Not hard to believe considering there are 25+ full timers. Rumours of insolvency beginning to circulate also.

- Bohs need assurances as to whether this stadium will happen, otherwise they will need to start releasing all round as well.

And I am sure plenty others have plenty problems as well.

To me, it seems like too many clubs are budgeting too high and are expecting better crowds? FFS, I don't think City have had more that 3800 at any stage this season, and we are supposedly the best supported team in the league. Cobh have been getting 500-900. I don't know about the rest. Then wages are far too high. AFAIK, Citys wage will is €70k a week :eek:. Thats an outrageous figure. And if ours is that big, I hate to see what SPA, Drogs or Bohs is!

looder

Why have the built a new stand in the RSC if they have no chance of ever filling it

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looder wrote: »

Why have the built a new stand in the RSC if they have no chance of ever filling it

Not only Waterford use that stadium, afaik.

Regional Sports Centre.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterford_Regional_Sports_Centre

gimmick

looder wrote: »

Why have the built a new stand in the RSC if they have no chance of ever filling it

Further to what Des said, Irish people, for some reason, seems to desire great facuilities before they will go to a ground. As it is, the RSC is the worst ground for watching football in the country. Perhaps by pitting the new stand in, it will attract a few more along.

In the main stand at the moment, if you sit too far to one side, you cannot actually see the goals inside the 18 yard box.

DSB

If clubs survive things like this its definitely better for them in the longterm. Sligo Rovers and Galway United should never have been full-time in the first place. If everyone wasn't overspending at the same time to compete with each other, there wouldn't be so many clubs coming close to the end, and the wage bill would be far lower for ALL clubs.

LuckyLloyd

Seems to me that there are far too many professional contracts through both divisions relative to the current fanbase and ultimately the population as a whole. If the above post is true and many of the under pressure clubs are going back to part time football it should be viewed as a very positive thing for the future of the game in the country.

applehunter

I don't want to watch part-time football now after the last few years of fully pro league.

LuckyLloyd

applehunter wrote: »

I don't want to watch part-time football now after the last few years of fully pro league.

Out of options. Compare average attendances across the two divisions with clubs in league two / Bluesquare premier in England.

Guy:Incognito

gimmick wrote: »

Further to what Des said, Irish people, for some reason, seems to desire great facuilities before they will go to a ground. As it is, the RSC is the worst ground for watching football in the country. Perhaps by pitting the new stand in, it will attract a few more along.

In the main stand at the moment, if you sit too far to one side, you cannot actually see the goals inside the 18 yard box.

Surely being able to see te pitch is a minimum courtesy that should be afforded to the current fans anyway, nevermind people you hope to attract?

CantGetNoSleep

If you sit near the front of the old stand you cannot see any of the midfield as those really high dugouts are in the way

djpbarry

gimmick wrote: »

Cobh are looking at resigning from the eL

I think this was blown out of proportion a little, wasn't it? Some aul' lads on the board were longing for the "good old days" when they didn't have to pay players, etc. Daft attitude in my opinion.

gimmick wrote: »

Galway have told all their players they can leave for free, and are going back part time next season.

Galway should not be in the Premier in the first place - they clearly were not ready for the step up.

gimmick wrote: »

Drogheda, and this is pretty much completely unconfirmed, need to trim their wage bill and fast as they cannot cope with their wage bill at present.
...
Cork City, looking like there may be further releases before a player can be signed. Not hard to believe considering there are 25+ full timers.

As you say, not hard to believe. Both clubs have relatively large squads.

gimmick wrote: »

To me, it seems like too many clubs are budgeting too high and are expecting better crowds?

And this is the biggest challenge faced by clubs in this country - how do they get bums on seats? As someone has already said, some people will refuse to go to a game unless the facilities are absolutely top class (like what they see in the UK on TV), which is obviously not realistic. I think the situation in Galway demonstrates how fickle some fans can be. Based on what I see on MNS every week, Terryland seems to be virtually deserted for most games, even though it's (probably) one of the better grounds in the country.

Having said all that, I think people are over-reacting slightly. First of all, football clubs are not immune to the downturn in the economy - it affects everyone. Secondly, as someone has already pointed out, what we're seeing here is clubs taking (harsh) actions to avoid serious financial difficulties before they are mired like Dublin City and Shelbourne were. Due to the wage cap, clubs have to take action immediately if they are running over budget, whereas in previous years they may have waited until the season's end, often to their detriment.

Gavin "shels"

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2008/0715/sligorovers.html


Time for the League to take more action methinks, what is he question though.

bohsman

There is a wage cap in place. This is the first season, there were always going to be problems sticking to it because of long term contracts etc but we should see things improving over the next couple of seasons.

pvt.joker

Sligo / Waterford going to the wall unless urgent action is taken.

Shows what a shambles the league has is becomming, and the jokers at the top are the ones to blame.

On a positive note, Dundalk almost hit the wall a few years back but have recovered fairly ok. Ditched a lot of the high earners ..back to using local based lads who have a bit of pride in playing for their team

Teams like Galway / Sligo paying professional contracts is NEVER going to work..

Pure Cork

pvt.joker wrote: »

Sligo / Waterford going to the wall unless urgent action is taken.

Shows what a shambles the league has is becomming, and the jokers at the top are the ones to blame.

On a positive note, Dundalk almost hit the wall a few years back but have recovered fairly ok. Ditched a lot of the high earners ..back to using local based lads who have a bit of pride in playing for their team

Teams like Galway / Sligo paying professional contracts is NEVER going to work..

Sligo should be able to make a lot if they sell Coleman. I'd love to see him play for City but Pats would offer more money.

Teams need more money from gate receipts and sponsorship, while behind the scenes budgets need to be much stricter. The FAI also needs to put more money into the league, and in fairness they are improving bit by bit. Pro contracts are fine for clubs like Sligo and Galway if they budget properly. In my opinion it's important for the LOI to have a strong club from Galway. But Pats in particular are inflating wages in the league making it very hard for everyone else. Garrett Kelleher is trying to buy success and is destroying the league in the process.

dsmythy

Any signs of players leaving yet? I havn't heard any news of it. Will all this off field turmoil in any way affect the morale of the team on the field?

DSB

dsmythy wrote: »

Any signs of players leaving yet? I havn't heard any news of it. Will all this off field turmoil in any way affect the morale of the team on the field?

I know Shels won the league in a similar enough situation but I imagine in a side who are far from favourites for the league regardless of this, it'll have a bad effect.

gimmick

Pure Cork wrote: »

Garrett Kelleher is trying to buy success and is destroying the league in the process.

No different than what Abramovich did with Chelsea a few years ago, but on admittedly a much smaller scale. At the rate things are going, any player who is close to the end of his contract, or his club needs money, SPA are buying/signing him on a pro deal which is worth more than what anyone else can offer.

FFS, if the reports of what they are offering Gamble is true, who would blame him for signing a pre contract in the next few weeks.

djpbarry

Pure Cork wrote: »

But Pats in particular are inflating wages in the league making it very hard for everyone else. Garrett Kelleher is trying to buy success and is destroying the league in the process.

Pats are subject to the wage cap, just like everyone else.

gimmick

^ Yes they are, but are using loopholes in order to get around it. I'm told that if McDowells entered a team in the eL they would do very well

djpbarry

gimmick wrote: »

Yes they are, but are using loopholes in order to get around it.

Such as (genuinely curious)?

SantryRed

djpbarry wrote: »

Such as (genuinely curious)?

Gifts are included in the income for getting over the 65% rule afaik.

djpbarry

SantryRed wrote: »

Gifts are included in the income for getting over the 65% rule afaik.

May I ask where you obtained this information (again, I'm genuinely curious)?

DmanDmythDledge

gimmick wrote: »

^ Yes they are, but are using loopholes in order to get around it.

Yeah, because Cork don't have anyone pumping money into them either...

Pure Cork

DmanDmythDledge wrote: »

Yeah, because Cork don't have anyone pumping money into them either...

We're probably the best run club in the league.

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Pure Cork wrote: »

We're probably the best run club in the league.

r.

o.

f.

l.

gimmick

DmanDmythDledge wrote: »

Yeah, because Cork don't have anyone pumping money into them either...

No we don't. Arcadia, or whatever the hell they are called will be shown up for the sham that they are very soon, to the detriment of CCFC.

Pure Cork wrote:

We're probably the best run club in the league.

Wish you were right, I really do.

Pure Cork

Des wrote: »

r.

o.

f.

l.

I'm here to entertain

We're greatly improving off the pitch ever since Arkaga took over. There are still problems, contracts being a major problem, but hopefully Patrick Kenny will be able to sort things out. I think we have a few creditors that need to be paid, but we haven't had a CEO to do it. We're not splashing the cash like Pats.

Sherifu

I hope Galway have caught their problem in time. And Sligo too. I'd like to know what's behind it all. Not enough fans, wages too high, etc.

_blank_

Sherifu wrote: »

Not enough fans, wages too high, etc.

Yes and yes.

Also, teams spending too big, and not being able to re-coup the money.

Either through sponsorship/gates/etc.

It's a no-win situation, as "fans" say "The facilities are shoite, Oim not going to a match in the eL" or "the standard is ****, I went to a match once in 1982, and Oid never go back".

So, clubs try to improve these things, build better grounds, pay the better players more so they stay here, but still the people won't come through the gates.

Until Irish people realise that the EPL isn't in Irish stadia, then the clubs will continue this cycle. Sligo/Galway can go back part time all they want, but we'll be talking about two or three different clubs this time next year.

Catch 22.

djpbarry

Des wrote: »

Until Irish people realise that the EPL isn't in Irish stadia, then the clubs will continue this cycle.

On this note, more bad news for the EL today. The NRA has objected to Drogheda's proposed new stadium, so it could be held up for a very long time, or even scrapped altogether :eek:.

http://www.eleven-a-side.com/eircomleague/news.asp?n=33184

estebancambias

Now that is sad(in the context of Irish football and for Drogheda)

Thought it looked like a terrific stadium.

What annoys me about the irish football fan is what will happen on Sunday when Bray play Leeds. Last night the Bray support was awful, this was against a Bohs team high in the league, however on Sunday they will flock to see **** like Beckford, Douglas etc. in a friendly game.

I don't know what can be done. I'm determined to start supporting the league and have been to many games this season. I think teams play good football. Bray and Bohs while they didn't really have any genius passers of the ball in the middle, they got the ball down and played it.

I think the problem for Irish football is that it is in the flesh. Football on tv looks totally different to in real life. Its much more rugged and not as smooth as it looks on tv. Also they need to make it more important....perhaps advertisement on tv(funded by FAI) announcing an important game..do all the cheesey stuff sky do, making it out that its a massive game(which it is)

Make it seem glamarous 'high spending' drogheda vs cork city in a match to save these two titans season. Advertisment works which is the reason people here support english clubs....if they wanted high quality why don't they support barcelona and stuff.

gimmick

Delighted. Absolutely delighted. Sooner that shower are back as a yo yo club at best, the better for all involved.

djpbarry

gimmick wrote: »

Sooner that shower are back as a yo yo club at best, the better for all involved.

How is that "better"?

gimmick

Well, better for me as I pretty much despise them.

Sherifu

gimmick wrote: »

Well, better for me as I pretty much despise them.

ZZZZZzzzzzzzz

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Interesting stuff from Keely and Giller ahead of Friday's game on extratime.ie

http://www.extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/609/

By Gordon Hunt


Keely and Gill face First Division realities

Speaking at a joint press conference for their upcoming eircom First Division clash this Friday, both John Gill and Dermot Keely put forward their glaring criticisms of the eircom League.

Both men argued that full time is not the way forward for the league, as there’s not enough interest from the fans.

“I was amazed to read the general report that attendances are up 20%. It’s not true, ask any manager around. The other night St Pats and Finn Harps, 900 people or so attended.”

Speaking of the eircom First Division, Keely was critical of the coverage the media supplies it with: “We are grateful for the coverage today, we really are, but the first division is an abyss […] Dundalk, Shelbourne and [Sporting] Fingal are the only clubs who can say they can guarantee eighteen weeks wages”.

“Attendances are down. Costs are up. Administration is huge. I’ve never seen such an air of pessimism around,” said Keely.

When asked if he agreed, Gill replied “Absolutely, I feel the league is at a crossroads.”

“There needs to be a rethink. We have this preconceived idea that we have to go full time. I feel that some managers might think that full time is the way to go. But three quarters would say part time.”

Gill argued that if people did this for the money, they wouldn’t be involved. “We are looking to break even at the end of the season. For a first division club, it’s a miracle.”

Keely agreed. “We are hoping that too, maybe a bit of a loss […] This idea of getting a millionaire tycoon, if there is one out there, I’d marry him!”

Gill spoke of his side’s investor. “Dundalk are after getting a tycoon, Gerry Matthews. He didn’t know anything about football when he came in; his aim was to help out the community. He runs it like a business, the right way. If I want to get ten footballs for training, there is a procedure to get them. It’s the right way.”

Too many clubs are not doing it the right way however. Both men laughed off the plans put forward by clubs currently in financial turmoil. “We do this because we love the game. We should get everyone together and have a think tank. People who understand what they are doing: Managers, Players, even Directors.” added Gill.

“Take your head out of the sand. If you don’t, we [clubs] are gone!” was Keely’s message to the Abbottstown officials.

Gavin "shels"

Good stuff for Keely.


Got a text off my mate from Waterford saying players have agreed to a pay cut and will play till the end of the season.

CantGetNoSleep

Gavin shels wrote: »

Good stuff for Keely.


Got a text off my mate from Waterford saying players have agreed to a pay cut and will play till the end of the season.

They haven't been paid for 4 weeks though according to their keeper Packie Holden

Ronan|Raven

Winter football...

OhNoYouDidn't

I don't know whats the bigger joke, a Cawk fan trying to claim they are well run or Keely and Gill blaming the league for their basket case clubs condition.

Newsflash boys, your clubs are at their natural level. I.e. nowhere.

_blank_

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I don't know whats the bigger joke, a Cawk fan trying to claim they are well run or Keely and Gill blaming the league for their basket case clubs condition.

Newsflash boys, your clubs are at their natural level. I.e. nowhere.

I'm sure Shamrock Rovers have 5k+ at every game, and have a sound financial footing.

Ah sure, even if they do need a dig out, they can have debts wiped again.

djpbarry

Gavin shels wrote: »

Got a text off my mate from Waterford saying players have agreed to a pay cut and will play till the end of the season.

More on this here:

elevenaside.com wrote:

The Management Committee, Manager and players of WUFC have designed and agreed upon a financial plan which should help secure the immediate future of the club and manage to keep the bulk of the current playing squad intact.

No.1: Each player has taken a wage cut from today to the end of the 2008 season. No.2: The back pay owed to each player will be paid between this and the end of the season.

Gavin "shels"

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I don't know whats the bigger joke, a Cawk fan trying to claim they are well run or Keely and Gill blaming the league for their basket case clubs condition.

Newsflash boys, your clubs are at their natural level. I.e. nowhere.

The only reason why Rovers are managed anyway decent now is because they fecked up once and had to change their ways, exactly like Shels now. Both clubs are only managed right now because we've both had near death experiences.

Now get off your high horse and come back to reality, only reason Rovers didn't hit the wall was because your debts were wiped clear, whereas Shels haven't been and we're cleaning up our own mess.