Stephen King is a white supremacist... [CONTAINS SPOILERS]

AlexBM

Kold wrote: »

I think this is the internet and noone attacked Alex at all, merely his nonsensical thread.

I don't think there's any need for this. I was wondering something, and thus the thread came about. I didn't intend to offend anybody, but so many of the replies I've had have contributed nothing at all. I don't understand why if somebody thinks it's a terrible thread, they don't just ignore it, or report it if they feel the need to, rather than posting responses like some of those on this thread.

Kold

Predhead wrote: »

Yeah the abusive ones as you call them, are the passive ones in reality I believe. If some of these people spoke to me like that in public they wouldn't be long about apologising, but I doubt they'd have to balls to do so in the first place. Of course they'll reply to the contrary but...actually I'm bored of these tossers, life's too short.

Mod's feel free to delete my account.

Again, I fail to see any abuse.

Sorry to see that you failed so abismally at the internet, I hope real life is your strong point seeing as people need balls to contradict you, I've no doubt you're really good at it.

Magic Eight Ball

AlexBM wrote: »

Stephen King is a white supremacist and a racist. Discuss.

Could you explain to me then why he'd voiced his support for Barack Obama?? :rolleyes:

pirelli

Tara Le d'Arion wrote: »

Her story stems from 'Here comes Noddy Again'. Golliwogs lure Noddy into the woods under the pretence of asking for help and then steal his car and clothes. Hilarious imo.

That was just Austrailia, Strangely the AUS goverment kept the secret sterilisation of the Aborigines in practice where by if they went to hospital for what ever reason, they would secretly be sterilised. The hypocrisy of banning 'NODDY' for being racist and secretly carrying out such a program against a race is beyong arrogant. Incidently Sweden had a secret program of sterilisation of disabled people up until the late seventies.

Maybe MRSA in irish hospitals is secretly being used ot get rid of the weak and infirm and save milions of ££. Look at Kevin Myers ( irish Independent) article last week about Ethiopia where he strongly supports letting the growing population die of malaria, and disapproves of vaccination programs.

The Eu also wants to re introduce some of these ideas, Euthanasia being one.

Discuss *****

*melanie* wrote: »

hi, around 15 years ago,when things started to get very pc...this rumour started. also,if you have a read of this,it might make more sense.personally i dont think he is rasist,but he does create characters in his books that are...

The monsters, ghosts and insanities that lurk beneath the bucolic landscape of King's territory in rural Maine are often diabolical, extraterrestrial or ancient in origin. But King's central themes are strikingly serious and contemporary. His greatest concern is with the survival, vindication and ultimate triumph of the weak and vulnerable. The tangible results of evil in King's universe include bullying, racism, wife beating, rape and, above all else, the abuse and murder of children. Few authors in any genre have ever captured the fragility and terror of childhood with such precision, and King's instinctive sympathy for the plight of the nerd, the fat kid, the scapegoat, the queer, is a great source of his appeal.
hope this helps alex.:)

Did you write that yourself and are you a stephen King reader , it's very well researched for a random chat forum. It is the one of a few post's that tackles the discussion constructively.

AlexBM wrote: »

Okay, I should have posted it as more of a question. As I've already said, I thought there might have been some sort of theory, along the lines of Enid Blyton being apparently racist. That's why I posted it to begin with.

Stephen King deals with character in his writing and he will get inside that
character. He likes depicting the more disturbing characters in society, The racist is also a stereotype and he will try to get inside the mens rea of such a mind and that will mean a litany of racist thoughts,feelings and even actions. He also gets inside the pyschopath and the mentally unstable and quite commonly the retarded or mentally challenged are the most heavily depicted of all his characters.

It is obvious that when he has a racist character he balances this with a character that isn't racist and has an opposite point of view. He definetly doesn't glorify racism, but does allow the rascist character the artistic licence to his point of view, but there is always the hero that is clean cut and hard working or has childhood problems, and not racist but usually honest.

Also his books go back and forth through american history most usually the characters childhood which would usually be the 1950's. There was extreme racism back then in many sectors of american society and goverment. It is impossible to just gloss over this when revisiting those times. The fact that King reminisces about those times so often and mostly from a particular perspective could be construed as slightly racist , however i would strongly disagree that he is a racist from his literature. Whether he is or not, he is trying very hard to disguise it.

*melanie*

pirelli wrote: »

Did you write that yourself and are you a stephen King reader , it's very well researched for a random chat forum. It is the one of a few post's that tackles the discussion constructivly

no,i didnt write it myself,the thread made me curious,therefore i looked it up online,thought it may explain some things.i have read a couple of his books,but not for a very long while now,into different authors these days.

*melanie*

Kold wrote: »

Again, I fail to see any abuse

.ok,so if you cant see any abuse,can you not at least see how rude people have been then?

pirelli

AlexBM wrote: »

Okay, I should have worded it differently.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_negro ( AlexBM had this ace up his sleeve, im playing it for him)


discuss ***** The shining ,The green mile and many others..

Dick Hallorann in The Shining (1977), and in both the 1980 film adaptation (Scatman Crothers) and the 1997 TV miniseries (Melvin Van Peebles)
Mother Abagail in The Stand (1978), and the 1994 TV adaptation (Ruby Dee)

jaffa20

Kold wrote: »

Worst thread ever.

This really adds a lot to the discussion. If you don't want to read the topic being discussed then don't. If you want to add something useful then by all means feel free. Otherwise, don't bother.

pirelli

Kold wrote: »

Worst thread ever.

Left Out in the cold.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-ehrenstein19mar19,0,5335087.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail

This might cheer you up.

AlexBM

Thanks to pirelli for the introduction of the so-called magical negro to the thread, in the form of an edited post on page one and one just a few posts above this. I think it might explain a little of what I was trying to get at. it's worth a read/bit of research, whatever your opinion on King. Thanks again, pirelli.

Kold

jaffa20 wrote: »

This really adds a lot to the discussion. If you don't want to read the topic being discussed then don't. If you want to add something useful then by all means feel free. Otherwise, don't bother.

Slightly hypocritical, no?

pirelli

Kold wrote: »

Slightly hypocritical, no?

KOLD your IT.

Dades

pirelli wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_negro ( AlexBM had this ace up his sleeve, im playing it for him)

Some of the examples given on that page are complete bollocks.

Morgan Freeman in the films Bruce Almighty and Evan Almighty.
Morpheus in The Matrix?

Sure, there are stereotypes in every type of storytelling. Trial judges are always women or minorities on TV or film. That doesn't make anything racist, it just makes it clichéd.

If you look at the sheer volume of work that King has produced, and all anyone can come up with to label him as a racist are those three characters fitting a cliché, then the charge is somewhat lame.

BossArky

If people are going to give plot details then please use the spoilers tags and put a warning in a thread title.

Kold

pirelli wrote: »

KOLD your IT.

What about my IT?

Nevyn

He's a white boy from main who writes what he knows and that doesn't make him a racist ffs.

ixoy

The evidence there in the "magical negro" text isn't very convincing. You may think he rights simplistic or stereotypical characters at a glance but there's generally more depth. So say we have Detta (or is Odetta? I can't recall which) in "The Dark Tower" who likes to throw in some old talk that may appear condescending, in that she'll throw in phrase like "yes suh" and the like. Reading her character for any length of time, and you'll see that it's a wicked play on the racism her character would have suffered growing up. And that's not withstanding the additional depth her character gets from her multiple and resultant personalities.

Even showing someone like "Ma Abigail" has to also be taken into context of the likes of her opposite - Randall Flagg who is white. Do we mean to take it that King thinks white people are the embodiment of evil? Isn't that an equally simplistic view?

AlexBM

ixoy wrote: »

The evidence there in the "magical negro" text isn't very convincing. You may think he rights simplistic or stereotypical characters at a glance but there's generally more depth. So say we have Detta (or is Odetta? I can't recall which) in "The Dark Tower" who likes to throw in some old talk that may appear condescending, in that she'll throw in phrase like "yes suh" and the like. Reading her character for any length of time, and you'll see that it's a wicked play on the racism her character would have suffered growing up. And that's not withstanding the additional depth her character gets from her multiple and resultant personalities.

Even showing someone like "Ma Abigail" has to also be taken into context of the likes of her opposite - Randall Flagg who is white. Do we mean to take it that King thinks white people are the embodiment of evil? Isn't that an equally simplistic view?

It is overly simplistic, yes, but I was hoping for other people's insights. It's been interesting so far. I'm not familiar personally with much of King's work - I didn't enjoy the Dark Tower series - but wasn't Randall Flagg black?

Dades

AlexBM, after reading this thread, are you still actually looking for truth in the 'rumour'?

AlexBM

Dades wrote: »

AlexBM, after reading this thread, are you still actually looking for truth in the 'rumour'?

No, not necessarily, just looking for insights.

LoLth

Wow. I hate threads that start with "blah blah blah. discuss". Dont be so lazy. if you have a point to make and you want people to agree, disagree or abstain then give some basis to work from. some examples, some input of your own. How would it go down if I sat down at a random table in a pub and said "all irish men are wife beating masoganistic potential serial killers. discuss"... I suggest that the OP does his homework and look at the meaning of white supremecist and racist before making blank allegations looking for ideas to regurgitate in a discussion with friends. I would suggest you read some King novels, or at least a summary of them then put forward an argument for or against and let people put forward their own points of view.

However, after some , deserved, abuse this thread does appear to have finally gotten on track so I'm not going to lock it. however, no more abusing the OPs laziness. And OP, start giving some input, not just one line comments on peoples replies.

on topic: IMHO: If king didnt put any non-white characters in his works would he be racist ? If he had cast non-white characters but only in the role of heroes, would that make him racist ? he has a mix of races in his books, some black some white, some good and some bad. Yes his main characters are usually white but suprise suprise, stephen king *is* white. Being horror, King tends to accentuate the darker side of his characters and the society he portrays. I cant ever remember him presenting racism or supremacy of any sort in any way other than as a bad trait or something "off kilter" with a location. Randall Flagg: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randall_Flagg was always protrayed as a white man.

How come no-one calls racist against the variety of primarily black sit-coms where white people play a side role, are evil or are just incredibly stupid. (sister-sister, moesha, Rayven etc)

AlexBM

LoLth wrote: »

Wow. I hate threads that start with "blah blah blah. discuss". Dont be so lazy. if you have a point to make and you want people to agree, disagree or abstain then give some basis to work from. some examples, some input of your own. How would it go down if I sat down at a random table in a pub and said "all irish men are wife beating masoganistic potential serial killers. discuss"... I suggest that the OP does his homework and look at the meaning of white supremecist and racist before making blank allegations looking for ideas to regurgitate in a discussion with friends. I would suggest you read some King novels, or at least a summary of them then put forward an argument for or against and let people put forward their own points of view.

However, after some , deserved, abuse this thread does appear to have finally gotten on track so I'm not going to lock it. however, no more abusing the OPs laziness. And OP, start giving some input, not just one line comments on peoples replies.

on topic: IMHO: If king didnt put any non-white characters in his works would he be racist ? If he had cast non-white characters but only in the role of heroes, would that make him racist ? he has a mix of races in his books, some black some white, some good and some bad. Yes his main characters are usually white but suprise suprise, stephen king *is* white. Being horror, King tends to accentuate the darker side of his characters and the society he portrays. I cant ever remember him presenting racism or supremacy of any sort in any way other than as a bad trait or something "off kilter" with a location. Randall Flagg: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randall_Flagg was always protrayed as a white man.

How come no-one calls racist against the variety of primarily black sit-coms where white people play a side role, are evil or are just incredibly stupid. (sister-sister, moesha, Rayven etc)

I've already said I should have worded it differently. Possibly more than once. It was not intended to be an allegation. I have read some King novels, and never thought about it myself, which is why I posted this - I thought others might have heard a theory, as I've also already stated. I disagree that the abuse was deserved - name-dropping moderators like yourself and comments like 'worst thread ever' are unnecessary, and don't add anything.

I haven't read enough of his work to definitely say what I think. The article below was interesting though, and notes a few of the common characteristics of the so-called magical negroes of his work. I do agree that this is a simplistic way of looking at it, and that the characters do clearly have more depth than just being the simple token black character.

http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/20041025/kinga.shtml

Killme00

By todays standards Enid Bylthon was Hitlers equivalent.

To say Stephen King is a white supremacist is beyond reason. If you look at the timeline and location of the majority of his novels against the demographics at the time i think you will find that very few black people lived in Maine at the time.

Also the use of a super duper magical negro character doesnt necessarily make the author racist. Super duper magical minorities are used in film and fiction all the time.

LoLth

AlexBM wrote: »

I've already said I should have worded it differently. Possibly more than once. It was not intended to be an allegation. I have read some King novels, and never thought about it myself, which is why I posted this - I thought others might have heard a theory, as I've also already stated. I disagree that the abuse was deserved - name-dropping moderators like yourself and comments like 'worst thread ever' are unnecessary, and don't add anything.

I haven't read enough of his work to definitely say what I think. The article below was interesting though, and notes a few of the common characteristics of the so-called magical negroes of his work. I do agree that this is a simplistic way of looking at it, and that the characters do clearly have more depth than just being the simple token black character.

http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/20041025/kinga.shtml

Fair enough you have said you could have worded it differently. Better to have said that you could have actually put something into the original post other than an exam type statement. name dropping moderators names... well, I am the cat mod for arts, I am also the original mod for literature and have been since it was set up so I do take a particular interest in this forum, I have also in the past happily locked threads that started almost identically to this one so its wasnt really name dropping, it was an observation by a poster. I do agree that "worst thread ever" commetns are a waste of space, if you're going to make a comment it should be backed up with a reason or an argument. But, your original post had neither of these, nor have any of your replies to this thread actually contained anything to further the debate, just a commentary on what someone else has said, and so sauce for goose etc etc. and anyway, I have already requested that htere be no more reference to the original post, its format and/or the "netiquette" codes breached and asked that the thread be kept on track and on the initial topic.

Now, you havent read enough of his work to definitely say what you think but from your research so far and from the valid responses to this thread, have you formed an opinion at all that people can agree or disagree with ?

Kold and Pirelli, if you are to post here again, please keep it on topic and take personal arguments to PM or contact a moderator (like me!) to sort it out for you. Kold, you in particular, I have stated multiple times and there's even a sticky that says how much I hate unsupported comments, in particular those of the worst thread ever variety. Your opinion was asked on whether king is a racist or not (based on his works) , not on the standing of this thread in the annals of history.

*melanie* : yes people were abusive. In response to what was seen as an abusive allegation in the first post and very typical of the standard troll posts seen on community forums everywhere : insert bomb, sit back feel happy that you caused trouble. In this case, it appears that the OP isnt actually a troll, just made a mistake in phrasing and in the fact that he didnt quantify or justify the statement - and yes OP you already apologised for that but that does not preclude me from referencing it as a reason for at least part of the abuse - .

Now, to get back on topic:
Magical negroes : minority magic is used a lot of works of fiction and fantasy. Primarily because it is minority and therefore not well known to the general reader and so all the more wonderous. Tad williams uses South African Bushmen as a minority in his works Otherland, this doesnt make him racist. Kings books are by and large based in American modern mythology and recent american history where the largest impression has to have been the civil war era the build up to which and up to recently have been sullied time and again by racial inequity. The novels would lose flavour of what the reader sees as authenticity without the stereotypical traits, which by the way, can also be used as a vehicle by the author to create reader expectations which are then shattered when the character in question acts in a completely contra way and thus all the more shocking.

Randall flagg was not black so the only remaining stereotype is Mother Abigail from the stand which, as already pointed out by Pirelli, is of an age where she grew up during a racist time and during a time when negro society was poor and was kept ignorant and was rural so her knowledge would be of the "homegrown" variety and is in keeping with her image as portrayed by king in the novel.

Same can be said for the Green Mile, the giant negro was jailed and convicted because of his colour added to the fact that he was found with the victims and he said that he "tried to take it back". American stereotypical white men of the time would see that as perfect justification for a verdict of guilty rather than continue looking for the real culprit. If anythign King is highlighting the racial and social injustice in this novel and using, along with the gentle nature and innocence fo the simpleton to create a sensee of sympathy and righteous indignation in the reader which he then plays upon to achieve the emotional reaction he wants at the end. I actually found this to be a cheap trick that he already tried with Henry Moon in the Stand but hey, it worked well this time too.

havent read Delores clairbone or bag of Bones because I got tired of King and his declining quality by then but Cujo, one of my favourites ever, also showed his definite anti-racism colours by havign the nasty old racist git die in a horrible way. he portrayed him so bad in fact, that you sort of found yourself thinking "good boy. nice doggy" as it happened....

ncmc

Randall flagg was not black

When he was 're-incarnated' at the end, was he not black?

I could be totally wrong there, it's a while since I read it.

Honey-ec

ncmc wrote: »

When he was 're-incarnated' at the end, was he not black?

I could be totally wrong there, it's a while since I read it.

Not that I recall.

Dades

Red was white in Rita Hayworth and Shawshank Redemption, and black in the film The Shawshank Redemption.

Does that make King racist, or Frank Darabont I wonder!

Miguel_Sanchez

Dades wrote: »

Red was white in Rita Hayworth and Shawshank Redemption, and black in the film The Shawshank Redemption.

Does that make King racist, or Frank Darabont I wonder!

There was nothing magical about the character of Red though as far as I recall from the film.

I'm not sure if Dick Hallorann in The Shining counts as a 'magical negro' either. Sure he has the ability to shine but then again so does the white kid. And in the end

when Hallorann comes to the rescue he doesn't last very long and doesn't help much

Also that Wiki post that cites Morgan Freeman in Bruce Almighty as a 'magical negro' character is stretching it a bit - he was playing God, of course he's going to be magical.

Dades

Jeff_Lebowski wrote: »

There was nothing magical about the character of Red though as far as I recall from the film.

I kinda knew that.

Earthhorse

Jeff_Lebowski wrote: »

There was nothing magical about the character of Red though as far as I recall from the film.

But there was something magical about Morgan Freeman's performance in that role.

Of course, we'd know that if film critics weren't all such white supremacists.