Travellers On Carrickpherish Road.

Ri na hEireann

Sully wrote: »

IF you think about it - there is no law for them to be afraid of at this time. The Guards can do little about it, so the travelers win anyway. If the law got tougher, then the travelers would be sorted and would loose each time.

Yes but this simply isn't good enough.The welfare of law-abiding and innocent citizens is being put at risk as a result of a few people who have no concept of social justice. As it stands they do what they want and don't give a sh*t about who gets hurt in the middle of it.

I really don't think that the law getting tougher would fix things as they have no concept of laws and regulations.

no its not just waterford , but i do think that they could be more
vigilant down here , it would stop a lot of things !
and prevent more travellers coming into waterford !

I reckon they're being fairly vigilant at the moment. Permanent Garda presence in Farran Park etc. But yet the poeple in the dispute don't care.

Out of curiosity what are the actual facts behind the feud. It may help us understand it easier....I'm not asking for names or anything just a general outline.

Sully

Ri na hEireann wrote: »

Yes but this simply isn't good enough.The welfare of law-abiding and innocent citizens is being put at risk as a result of a few people who have no concept of social justice. As it stands they do what they want and don't give a sh*t about who gets hurt in the middle of it.

I really don't think that the law getting tougher would fix things as they have no concept of laws and regulations.

Well, the laws stink. The travelers get away with ****e because they can. How do you propose we fix it if you don't want to change the laws? The travelers wont change.

I reckon they're being fairly vigilant at the moment. Permanent Garda presence in Farran Park etc. But yet the poeple in the dispute don't care.

Being stalked by a Garda isn't going to stop them though.

choclatecream

well yes there vigilant im not citisizing the gardai ,theres no guide book on how to deal with travellers there doing the best they can , i think there gettin the hang of things !
and i doubt therell be any more voilence in waterford for while
its not over but tactics have changed

this whole thing started 2 years ago , when a boy an girl from both familys fell in love
and ran away together ,, the boy "my cousin" was brutally attacked ! and it went on from there !

Ri na hEireann

choclatecream wrote: »

well yes there vigilant im not citisizing the gardai ,theres no guide book on how to deal with travellers there doing the best they can , i think there gettin the hang of things !
and i doubt therell be any more voilence in waterford for while
its not over but tactics have changed

this whole thing started 2 years ago , when a boy an girl from both familys fell in love
and ran away together ,, the boy "my cousin" was brutally attacked ! and it went on from there !

So it's a bit of a Romeo and Julliet story....Well I suppose look how that ended.

choclatecream

u might'nt like to hear this but the guards wont stop this argument
this isnt your avarage fued , eight men tried to stab a man to death
a few days later they cut and beat up a pregnant woman
an then shot a little boy !! my oppionion is
its gonna get worse before it gets better !

Ri na hEireann

Sully wrote: »

Well, the laws stink. The travelers get away with ****e because they can. How do you propose we fix it if you don't want to change the laws? The travelers wont change.



Being stalked by a Garda isn't going to stop them though.

If they settle they cause trouble. If they live the itinerant way they cause trouble. I may be generalising here,but in general this in my opinion reflects a large portion of the travelling community.

I reckon if it escalates any more the Army should be brought in. If they have no fear of Gardai perhaps they will fear armed soldiers.

Ri na hEireann

choclatecream wrote: »

u might'nt like to hear this but the guards wont stop this argument
this isnt your avarage fued , eight men tried to stab a man to death
a few days later they cut and beat up a pregnant woman
an then shot a little boy !! my oppionion is
its gonna get worse before it gets better !

Why don't ye contribute something to society and be adults.In other words talk things out put an end to it and stop cutting chunks out of each other or innocent people. Or is this gonna be a case of last family standing wins?

Sully

Ri na hEireann wrote: »

If they settle they cause trouble. If they live the itinerant way they cause trouble. I may be generalising here,but in general this in my opinion reflects a large portion of the travelling community.

I always thought settled were nowhere near as troublesome as those who were not settled travellers. A large portion, indeed, but not everyone.

I reckon if it escalates any more the Army should be brought in. If they have no fear of Gardai perhaps they will fear armed soldiers.

The army? Complete overreaction. Its not anywhere near a scale for the army to be brought in. The army will do the exact same but will be armed this time so if things get really bed, they *might* open fire but I doubt it. We have armed guards for that.

choclatecream

Ri na hEireann wrote: »

Why don't ye contribute something to society and be adults.In other words talk things out put an end to it and stop cutting chunks out of each other or innocent people. Or is this gonna be a case of last family standing wins?

weve been contributing for two years , calming situations , anythin
just to keep the peice even if it made us look like cowards .
as a result they eventually did think we were cowards an thought
hey ! weve been gettin away with alot lately maybe theyve gone soft !
lets kill them all an take over waterford !
if all they understand is voilence then so be it !

alpha2zulu

Sully
The army? Complete overreaction. Its not anywhere near a scale for the army to be brought in.
The army will do the exact same but will be armed this time so if things get really bed, they *might* open fire but I doubt it. We have armed guards for that.

Sully, is part of the problem in the failure to calm the situation, that only a relatively small number of Gardai are currently armed so the deterrent for these people is not strong enough.If the Army is what it takes in this country to bring that level of security for the rest of us then so be it.
I have an awful feeling that if God forbid half a dozen youngsters were mowed down outside Kentucky last weekend, peoples opinion on this topic would have vastly changed by now.

Although totally unrelated and i dont mean to draw any paraells whatsoever, but having being in London a couple of days after the terrible bombings on 7/7/05, the city was covered in heavily armed police. Who knows wheather this type of approach actually disuades people from causing trouble (particularly in light of another round of attempted bombings 2 weeks later), but it does send out a message that they mean business aswell as providing a level of reassurance to the public.

Certainly if I saw armed patrols on John St on a Saturday night or indeed walking through estates in the City i wouldent feel intimadated. If anything its reassureing that their is serious force nearby looking out for your safety.

Sully

alpha2zulu wrote: »

Sully, is part of the problem in the failure to calm the situation, that only a relatively small number of Gardai are currently armed so the deterrent for these people is not strong enough.

Although totally unrelated and i dont mean to draw any paraells whatsoever, but having being in London a couple of days after the terrible bombings on 7/7/05, the city was covered in heavily armed police. Who knows wheather this type of approach actually disuades people from causing trouble (particularly in light of another round of attempted bombings 2 weeks later), but it does send out a message that they mean business aswell as providing a level of reassurance to the public.

Certainly if I saw armed patrols on John St on a Saturady night or indeed walking through estates in the City i wouldent feel intimadated.If anything its reassureing that their is serious force nearby looking out for your safety.

I'm all for armed gardai watching over them just not the army. But you cant have that on a permanent basis - its only a temp fix.

alpha2zulu

Sully
I'm all for armed gardai watching over them just not the army. But you cant have that on a permanent basis - its only a temp fix

But a fix none the less?

Some thinking outside the box maybe exactly what is needed right now. With all due respect to the Mayor,Cllr Jack Walsh, the threat of loseing council dwellings in the future, is hardly playing long on the mind of the main players in all of this.

dlofnep

An armies purpose is to defend a country, not to squash family feuds. Armed Gardai would be more appropiate.

Sully

alpha2zulu wrote: »

But a fix none the less?

Some thinking outside the box maybe exactly what is needed right now. With all due respect to the Mayor, the threat of loseing council dwellings in the future, is hardly playing long on the mind of the main players in all of this.

Sending in the army when the guards can do the very same? Seems an OTT reaction. The feud spilled out onto the streets once, and since then is just pop shots at each others houses. These estates need to be monitored and some sort of talks need to start to ease the situation.

Sending in any armed situation might calm it down for a while, but it wont fix the problem. Thinking outside the box is addressing the actual problem and not going in armed to kick them around the place for a while.

alpha2zulu

dlofnep
An armies purpose is to defend a country, not to squash family feuds

But if as were led to beleive the Garda resources just arent there to mount that level of response then what other options do we have?
The talking shop route has only seemed to have an negligable effect so far.

If as you say the purpose of the army is to defend the country rather than solveing feuds, then why has the army got involved in the transit of money by private security firms(aside from presumedly a healthy renumeration package to the Department of Defense).

Surely the definition of "defending the country" can include defending the freedoms of innocent members of the public to move around without the fear of being caught up in many of the nasties seen in recent weeks.

Ri na hEireann

The purpose of an army is to defend the people of a country.

As choclatecream said
my oppionion is
its gonna get worse before it gets better !

I don't buy this whole bullsh*t, wait for something to happen attitude. Why should we wait until innocent people die as a result of this. It may be OTT to bring in the army but in my opinion it would be worth it if it prevented the death of even one innocent person.

What would your opinion be if that car had of run down and killed 5 or 6 people. If the travellers want to kill each other so be it but when the lives of your ordinary joe bloggs standing outside Hilbillys enjoying a snackbox is put at risk something drastic needs to be done. I wouldn't even mention the army if this was an isolated incident but judging by the selfish and barbaric mentality of these people it's only a matter of days or weeks before we hear a report of someone accidentally shot dead by a traveller.

Sully

You cant call in the ****ing army because a few families are trying to kill each other for god sake. I'm sorry but its pure madness suggesting that the only way to solve it is by sending in people with guns to stand over them. Unarmed guards have done this from the beginning with the odd bit of assistance from the armed unit. The families couldnt give a ****, there going to do their best to get a shot at the other family.

Army is there to defend our country or assist the Gardai in extreme situations. We are nowhere near the scale of violence that happened in Limerick or a level of anything to send in the troops.

Its the guards job to man the streets, even during riots. If they cant, then that problem needs to be looked at and addressed. The problem is, the Guards are afraid to deal with them unless they go in heavy (which they have done before) and dont take ****e pulling out those scumbags. Problem is, they get to court and they only get a slap on the wrist.

Ri na hEireann

You cant call in the ****ing army because a few families are trying to kill each other for god sake

Right so when a few innocent people are killed we can call them in?

I'm sorry but its pure madness suggesting that the only way to solve it is by sending in people with guns to stand over them.

Well what else do you propose...If they want to shoot each other and put my life at danger I'd happily advocate sending in people with guns to shoot them if need be.

Army is there to defend our country or assist the Gardai in extreme situations. We are nowhere near the scale of violence that happened in Limerick or a level of anything to send in the troops.

Look at Limericks image now. I'd much prefer prevention of such a level of violence rather than treating it when it does occur.

The problem is, the Guards are afraid to deal with them unless they go in heavy (which they have done before) and dont take ****e pulling out those scumbags

So if the Guards are afraid and the army is only for extreme situations who do we send in?

Sully

Ri na hEireann wrote: »

Right so when a few innocent people are killed we can call them in?

Nope. Its not their job. Its up to the Guards to enforce the law and hunt down murderers.

Well what else do you propose...If they want to shoot each other and put my life at danger I'd happily advocate sending in people with guns to shoot them if need be.

Iv already explained the problem and a possible solution. Countless times, but it usually gets hidden away in noise from people telling me in pro-traveller.

Look at Limericks image now. I'd much prefer prevention of such a level of violence rather than treating it when it does occur.

Afaik, its not traveller families there. Which is an interesting point as a lot of people are shouting about how its unsafe and blaming travellers etc. when we have ordinary scumbags acting the muppet also. But that's besides the point. These scumbags have no fear for the law as it cant harm them either. They had armed guards watching over them and it didn't make much of a difference. The army would be doing the exact same thing - there not allowed shoot someone for that kinda thing.

So if the Guards are afraid and the army is only for extreme situations who do we send in?

The army cant do much, there in the same position the Guards are if they were called in. The army will be ****ed out of it (do the army have power of arrest even in such situations) and even if they get arrested - the courts fail all the effort and the cycle continues.

JohnC.

The army are the wrong people for the job. It isn't something the army do. They are not police.

choclatecream

i really dont think that bringing the army in will solve anything !!

the gardai should of made an example out of those men envolved
in the car incident in town , to show the rest of them that this behavior
isnt exeptable !! i dont know what they thought theyd acheive by letting them out!
the same men are around the roads braggin about it to other travellers

BlaasForRafa

Kahless wrote: »

The army are the wrong people for the job. It isn't something the army do. They are not police.

I'd suggest getting Judge Dredd or Dirty Harry to sort em out but I'm might get infracted for saying that.

and seriously now, what is it with all the ****ing **** lately, can't people make a point without ****ing **** ******* swearing.

And on the topic, sending in the army is an over-reaction. Give the waterford gardai the staffing and resources so that they can deal with it. If I recall from reading the Phoenix lately Waterford city and county has one of the lowest numbers of guards per head of population in the country.

Ri na hEireann

Someone should give Batman a bell

muffler

Ri na hEireann wrote: »

Someone should give Batman a bell

You rang?

utick

dont need the army, just next time they are causing trouble, use a the taser on them, didnt it quiet down a lot in limerick almost imediatly after the gardai tazered a criminal?

magick

well bringing in the army would be completely useless, why because they tried it in Italy and the army didnt have any arresting powers at all. All they were their for was a show of force, if we need a show of force then we need a police service with force ie "ur under arrest and going away for a long time". So PoliceForce + strong judicial system would solve the problem, not the army.

Not The Real Scarecrow

Think the police are doing a fairly good job at the moment.I have little doubt if it wasn't for them the situation would be far worse.However I don't think it's going to be resolved easily anytime soon and I can't see how or why it falls on the guards to resolve it.I'm aware , as has been posted that there are members of the traveller community trying to sort the problem out through mitigation.I believe that this is going to be the only way it's going to stop.The settled community in general(me included) have little or no understanding of how the traveller community operates,therefore I'm not going to make any comments to generalise or insult the community,I feel like they should be allowed to regulate themselves in situations like this( I don't mean, no guarda involvement for those that break the law).Surely there are members of the community that the fellas causing the trouble either fear or respect enough that they would sort it out peacefully under their influence.Either way something needs to be done soon or I can't see a good outcome.The way things are going people will turn totally on a whole community because of the actions of a few and it will be inevitable, because of a climate of fear that is being created ,that worse will come.

BlaasForRafa

Meatwad wrote: »

I'm aware , as has been posted that there are members of the traveller community trying to sort the problem out through mitigation.I believe that this is going to be the only way it's going to stop.The settled community in general(me included) have little or no understanding of how the traveller community operates,therefore I'm not going to make any comments to generalise or insult the community,I feel like they should be allowed to regulate themselves in situations like this( I don't mean, no guarda involvement for those that break the law).Surely there are members of the community that the fellas causing the trouble either fear or respect enough that they would sort it out peacefully under their influence.

Thats just complete rubbish. Travellers regulating this dispute is what has lead to this campaign of vicious revenge attacks. What your talking about is vigilante travellers meteing out justice on other travellers which is crazy.

Travellers are citizens of this country, they have to live by the law of the land just like settled people.

Sully

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Thats just complete rubbish. Travellers regulating this dispute is what has lead to this campaign of vicious revenge attacks. What your talking about is vigilante travellers meteing out justice on other travellers which is crazy.

Travellers are citizens of this country, they have to live by the law of the land just like settled people.

Spoke with a chap from the north about this. He said in the North they abide by the law in general, and any feud that happens is sorted out using fists. Not like what happens here. Problem lies with the travellers or the law? I think the law.

Not The Real Scarecrow

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Thats just complete rubbish. Travellers regulating this dispute is what has lead to this campaign of vicious revenge attacks. What your talking about is vigilante travellers meteing out justice on other travellers which is crazy.

never once did I say that the travellers should take the law into their own hands or use violence.What I was referring to was people from other bigger families stepping in and basically telling them to cop on.I am aware of this happening several times before, not only in the travelling community but also in the settled community.They obviously have no regard for our laws so maybe they might respect their own ways.I for one can see how the revenge attacks happened as I think it is only human to hurt some one who has hurt someone close to you.Plenty of people might hide behind the cowardice of letting the law handle it but in reality there are plenty of people who do take the law into their own hands when they have to as the law or the judicial system will either do nothing about it or not give a fitting punishment.
As well, it started over owed money from my understanding, in all honesty, what was going to happen.Where they going to go to the guards and say,"some fella owes me money from an illegal fight, but he won't pay up.Will ye get it for me,boss?".I am not condoning what has ensued, but what else was going to happen.Different people deal with situations in different ways, it doesn't matter from what community they are from.