Travellers On Carrickpherish Road.

BlaasForRafa

Meatwad wrote: »

never once did I say that the travellers should take the law into their own hands or use violence.What I was referring to was people from other bigger families stepping in and basically telling them to cop on.I am aware of this happening several times before, not only in the travelling community but also in the settled community.They obviously have no regard for our laws so maybe they might respect their own ways.I for one can see how the revenge attacks happened as I think it is only human to hurt some one who has hurt someone close to you.Plenty of people might hide behind the cowardice of letting the law handle it but in reality there are plenty of people who do take the law into their own hands when they have to as the law or the judicial system will either do nothing about it or not give a fitting punishment.
As well, it started over owed money from my understanding, in all honesty, what was going to happen.Where they going to go to the guards and say,"some fella owes me money from an illegal fight, but he won't pay up.Will ye get it for me,boss?".I am not condoning what has ensued, but what else was going to happen.Different people deal with situations in different ways, it doesn't matter from what community they are from.

Cowardice of letting the law handle it??? ....what... so people shouldn't report crime and should go after someone with an axe/slashook/shotgun/whatever? what your saying is still all kinds of wrong.

The money was owed as the result of an illegal activity..which should be prosecuted. The revenge attacks should also be prosecuted, not handled in some fuzzy wishy washy let them talk it out way. They did the crime they should do the time.

Ri na hEireann

Meatwad wrote: »

What I was referring to was people from other bigger families stepping in and basically telling them to cop on.

Other bigger families? The Carleones perhaps? I don't think they operate like that. Plenty of people are telling them to cop on so I don't think somone for a "bigger family" could do anything.

Meatwad wrote: »

They obviously have no regard for our laws so maybe they might respect their own ways.I for one can see how the revenge attacks happened as I think it is only human to hurt some one who has hurt someone close to you.

Their own ways seem to be what they are doing now so I think it's time there are consequences for the constant inability to abide by "our laws". It should not be a matter of our law and theirs. They should abide by ours or be in prison...simple as.

Meatwad wrote: »

Plenty of people might hide behind the cowardice of letting the law handle it

I think the situation as it is is cowardly....Putting innocent lives in danger.

Meatwad wrote: »

Different people deal with situations in different ways, it doesn't matter from what community they are from.

It clearly does. Settled people seem to use the "cowardice" of the law in these sort of disputes in comparison to travellers.

ROCKMAN

SURPRISE SURPRISE THE F***ERS ARE AT IT AGAIN

same house done again.

Cops and squad car outside the house again , after the fact,
Christ does it take a genius to work out where trouble may start.

The Pox

Been keeping on this thread from abroad for a while now and I think there's probably an important point that's only been touched on so far.

Lots of people have been saying that more needs to be done by the guards and others saying the they wouldn't envy the gardaí trying to sort it out but I don't know if people on here have really thought fully about just how difficult it is for the guards to get the people involved.

If a guard wants to get a search warrant for an average person's house then they do a bit bit of surveillance maybe tap their mobile then go uo to the super with the evidence of wrongdoing and get the warrant signed (they don't need a judge's sig anymore) and in they go... but if they have suspicions of a traveller and they want to get a warrant to search a site then it makes it very difficult cos they will have to search EVERY families caravan and that means they have to show 'just cause' for doing so. Probably most of us haven't been on a halting site before but just think how hard it would be to search a halting site with 20/30 maybe more families on there. I'm suprised they ever find any machetes or guns at all.
And proving any of those weapons weren't meant for cutting briars at the side of ditches (beside the guns that is) is just as difficult.

On the other point of the army being brough in then it's a tricky one to call. If the gardaí were close to stopping the whole thing by making some arrests that were actually going to put a halt to the violence then i would say go ahead and it'll keep things calm until the arrests are made. The reality however is that travellers (as we all know) have large families and there is ALWAYS someone ready to step in a and fill the gap by someone who's beeen taken out .. I'd go as far as to say there's usually about 10 people ready to step in to fill the gap and join the ranks! Soall bringing in the army would do is calm it down for a while, travellers are VERY patient people .. they'll take their pound of flesh frozen if they have to.

I tihnk the main problem it's erupted so much in recent years is definitely guns. Before they could sort out most disputes with a good auld fistfight (and probably run a book and make a few bob on it as well) and shur if someone got a tap of a machete then they had a scar and it was still within the powers of the families to resolve it so it wouldn't blow up again (might mean an arranged marriage or a new transit but it could be done!) but when someone is killed it's a completely diffferent story. As we learned from years of troubles up the North it takes an awful long time for the ripples from a murder to calm and for a race of people that acutalll do LOVE fighting to their core then the ripples are waves and we're in a tsunami.

(PS must add that I actually have no time for most cops and can hardly beleive that I defended them here...)

Cabaal

ROCKMAN wrote: »

SURPRISE SURPRISE THE F***ERS ARE AT IT AGAIN

same house done again.

Cops and squad car outside the house again , after the fact,
Christ does it take a genius to work out where trouble may start.

What do you want the Gardai to do, sit outside the house 24/7 so its not attacked?

The Pox wrote: »

If a guard wants to get a search warrant for an average person's house then they do a bit bit of surveillance maybe tap their mobile then go uo to the super with the evidence of wrongdoing and get the warrant signed (they don't need a judge's sig anymore) and in they go... but if they have suspicions of a traveller and they want to get a warrant to search a site then it makes it very difficult cos they will have to search EVERY families caravan and that means they have to show 'just cause' for doing so. Probably most of us haven't been on a halting site before but just think how hard it would be to search a halting site with 20/30 maybe more families on there. I'm suprised they ever find any machetes or guns at all.
And proving any of those weapons weren't meant for cutting briars at the side of ditches (beside the guns that is) is just as difficult.

lol, its harder for them to get permission to "tap" a mobile/landline then it is for them to get a search warrant

On the other point of the army being brough in then it's a tricky one to call. If the gardaí were close to stopping the whole thing by making some arrests that were actually going to put a halt to the violence then i would say go ahead and it'll keep things calm until the arrests are made. The reality however is that travellers (as we all know) have large families and there is ALWAYS someone ready to step in a and fill the gap by someone who's beeen taken out .. I'd go as far as to say there's usually about 10 people ready to step in to fill the gap and join the ranks! Soall bringing in the army would do is calm it down for a while, travellers are VERY patient people .. they'll take their pound of flesh frozen if they have to.

The army are not going to be brought in, suggesting they will be is a waste of time./

I tihnk the main problem it's erupted so much in recent years is definitely guns. Before they could sort out most disputes with a good auld fistfight (and probably run a book and make a few bob on it as well) and shur if someone got a tap of a machete then they had a scar and it was still within the powers of the families to resolve it so it wouldn't blow up again (might mean an arranged marriage or a new transit but it could be done!) but when someone is killed it's a completely diffferent story. As we learned from years of troubles up the North it takes an awful long time for the ripples from a murder to calm and for a race of people that acutalll do LOVE fighting to their core then the ripples are waves and we're in a tsunami.

I think you'll find a machete or slashhook can kill somebody pretty easy, nobody needs guns to kill people when you got knifes.

Thing is if there's underlying issues there at all it doesn't matter if they use guns or knifes it will continuing and can spill out from where they live

garp

The very idea of bringing in the Army is so OTT that it does not warrant a response. Cop on.
Its simple remove the word Traveler and apply the law.
To choclatecream.
Its good to have another point of view being voiced, but you have to understand that for most folk here, this is the closest they have ever come to having a chat with "one of them" so there might be some venting in your direction. Try not to take it to heart.

Sully

Unless im mistaken, the legislation regarding tapping phones etc. is not even in force yet. Isnt that still in motion?

ROCKMAN

Cabaal wrote: »

What do you want the Gardai to do, sit outside the house 24/7 so its not attacked?

Honestly , After living with/beside this **** for over two months now , YES,

Sully

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Honestly , After living with/beside this **** for over two months now , YES,

Unlikely to ever going to happen tbh. Its not at a scale even close enough to consider it. Have you tried talking to local councilors / garda sargent?

ROCKMAN

Sully wrote: »

Unlikely to ever going to happen tbh. Its not at a scale even close enough to consider it. Have you tried talking to local councilors / garda sargent?

I know its never going to happen , Yes the cops are there since 11 o clock last night and have a road block going all day , but that will not last long.

As for talking to the councilors or cops , its only talk with no end product and there enough of them talking already.

On a side-note ,(and I know its happening in other estates , but let me be selfish for a moment and just think of my own doorstep)
In this part of the estate alone there are around 40 -50 kids under 7 years of age. The same as a small primary school now taking that on board , If there was as many fire-bombs and shooting attacks happening beside or in and around a primary school would anybody find a request for 24/7 Garda presents to be ludicrous or stupid ?

Sully

ROCKMAN wrote: »

I know its never going to happen , Yes the cops are there since 11 o clock last night and have a road block going all day , but that will not last long.

Understandably though. Its supposed to be there as a calming measure and pull away. Have they not caught those attacking the house? Christ maybe its time for a cover operation to catch them in the act instead of arriving after its done.

As for talking to the councilors or cops , its only talk with no end product and there enough of them talking already.

Adding to the pressure and raising your concerns on local or national papers might be the only way to get this problem solved.

On a side-note ,(and I know its happening in other estates , but let me be selfish for a moment and just think of my own doorstep)
In this part of the estate alone there are around 40 -50 kids under 7 years of age. The same as a small primary school now taking that on board , If there was as many fire-bombs and shooting attacks happening beside or in and around a primary school would anybody find a request for 24/7 Garda presents to be ludicrous or stupid ?

Based on current situation, it seems its happening at night and there targeting a specific house. I would imagine that the feuding families will be trying to avoid a cross fire situation anyway.

choclatecream

i see every1's still at eachothers throats!

Sully

choclatecream wrote: »

i see every1's still at eachothers throats!

Where? Here or in general?

choclatecream

lol both i suppose !

djScarey

The Pox wrote: »

but if they have suspicions of a traveller and they want to get a warrant to search a site then it makes it very difficult cos they will have to search EVERY families caravan and that means they have to show 'just cause' for doing so. Probably most of us haven't been on a halting site before but just think how hard it would be to search a halting site with 20/30 maybe more families on there. I'm suprised they ever find any machetes or guns at all.

In the UK, warrants can be issued for individual pitches. Below is an example of how not to carry out a raid on a Travellers site. The Met's "take" would have been more had they raided any random street in NW London at 3am. And they have helped to consolidate any taught hostile opinions of the cops in over 150 Traveller children in the process.

http://tinyurl.com/5b2c3d

Armed police and tazer-wielding search teams descended on a travellers' site in the early hours of this morning (Friday), making four arrests after the discovery of class A drugs and replica guns.
The raid, on eight caravans in the Lynton Close site in Neasden, took place at approximately 3am and involved 380 police officers, who executed search warrants for firearms and drugs.
A JCB was used to gain entry to the site and furious travellers have accused police of heavy-handed tactics.
One caravan, which was searched for stolen goods, had every window smashed by police search teams who failed to find any property.
A number of travellers told the Observer they intended to complain to the Met and Chief Inspector Ian Vincent, who co-ordinated the raid, said he was sorry for the damage at some of the properties.
Searches of the site are continuing and police said they have found 34 wraps of cocaine, four guns and an air rifle, and have removed three pit-bull type dogs.

KingLoser

djScarey wrote: »

In the UK, warrants can be issued for individual pitches. Below is an example of how not to carry out a raid on a Travellers site. The Met's "take" would have been more had they raided any random street in NW London at 3am. And they have helped to consolidate any taught hostile opinions of the cops in over 150 Traveller children in the process.

http://tinyurl.com/5b2c3d

This is good to see, another side to it. Traveller's are getting all bad press these days.

I won't bother commenting any more, the danger around here is very real, but it's all been said before. Cheers for the unusual twist in the thread though!

Ri na hEireann

KingLoser wrote: »

This is good to see, another side to it. Traveller's are getting all bad press these days.

I won't bother commenting any more, the danger around here is very real, but it's all been said before. Cheers for the unusual twist in the thread though!

Well this is hardly good press for them is it?

34 wraps of cocaine, four guns and an air rifle, and have removed three pit-bull type dogs.

In fairness though 380 Police officers is a joke.

KingLoser

Ri na hEireann wrote: »

Well this is hardly good press for them is it?



In fairness though 380 Police officers is a joke.

Aye, but I agree with this point:

The Met's "take" would have been more had they raided any random street in NW London at 3am.

Ri na hEireann

KingLoser wrote: »

Aye, but I agree with this point:

True...But it's not as if the halting site was a law-abiding haven....The cops went overboard but there was criminal activity there.

And definately you're right they would have found more wit 5 or 6 coppers on a street in NW London. Still doesn't make

34 wraps of cocaine, four guns and an air rifle

acceptable.

choclatecream

there hasnt been trouble in ages ! but you know what they say
about the quiet before the storm .

KingLoser

choclatecream wrote: »

there hasnt been trouble in ages ! but you know what they say
about the quiet before the storm .

I was wondering this too.. Are they actually trying to sort it out?

Or is trying to kill each other "sorting it out"?

muffler

KingLoser wrote: »

Or is trying to kill each other "sorting it out"?

It was stated above that

there hasnt been trouble in ages

so comments like that are unhelpful.

choclatecream

i dont think therell be anything sorted out until
something really serious happens first , theres been a few more arrests today
so the crowds are getting smaller on both sides, and the pressures on!
i wreckon this time next month were still gonna be talkin bout this and no further on !

KingLoser

choclatecream wrote: »

i dont think therell be anything sorted out until
something really serious happens first , theres been a few more arrests today
so the crowds are getting smaller on both sides, and the pressures on!
i wreckon this time next month were still gonna be talkin bout this and no further on !

I think so too.

One side wont be happy until one of the other bites the dust, and then they'll probably call for revenge too. Have the families got anyone talking between themselves at all during this do ya know?

Seems like what the gardees are doin is counter-productive, because the more of them that end up goin to court, the more wound up the rest seem to be getting.

choclatecream

No! theres no more peice talkers here , Ian White tried his best
but with no results he was fired ! as i said this isnt an average argument
<SNIP>l! how do u walk past a person that tried to kill ur father or brother
The two familys can never live in the one town again, and with both familys as stubourn
as each other theres just no saying what will happen next!

maybe the gaurds should just leave us at it an arrest whoevers left standing
and then ud be rid of all of us lol!!


Mod edit: Even though you all know the families involved we cant and wont have names posted up in a public forum especially with the very serious nature of the accusation that was made.

KingLoser

choclatecream wrote: »

No! theres no more peice talkers here , Ian White tried his best
but with no results he was fired ! as i said this isnt an average argument
<SNIP> how do u walk past a person that tried to kill ur father or brother
The two familys can never live in the one town again, and with both familys as stubourn
as each other theres just no saying what will happen next!

You're right ya know, there's no way these people can live together anymore, and because it's such a small town (city.. :P) too. It really seems pretty hopeless at this point, doesn't it? Nobody talking and attempts on people's lives.. Has anything like this ever happened in Waterford before?

maybe the gaurds should just leave us at it an arrest whoevers left standing
and then ud be rid of all of us lol!!

Can't speak for the rest of em, but I don't think ye're all bad. :pac:

choclatecream

well ye theres been rows in the past but nothing for this long
and never any murder attempts !
i feel so sorry for my neibhours,there so scared !

muffler

As stated in a post above I would like to point out to everyone here that even though a lot of you know the families involved we cant and wont have names posted up in a public forum especially with the very serious nature of the accusation that was made.

Ri na hEireann

choclatecream wrote: »

i feel so sorry for my neibhours,there so scared !

Isn't everyone sure. I'm sure if everyone involved felt sorry enough they'd stop or at least sort it out in some organised fashion. There's no pride in petrol bombing houses and getting the wrong targets.

choclatecream

No1 took pride in that ! and how exactly would u propose we sort it out ?
enlighten me !