A Discussion of the Rules (July 14th 2008)

Villain

PHB wrote: »

I think you've read too much into the change from discussion to incident.
The discussion was removed, afaik, because we're not saying that if you are talking about Alonso in general and mention his game last week we're going to move the post.
Incident is more specific, because it refers to any incident in the match. That would include, basically anything that happens, like a kick of the ball

You see you said "last week" there, and PSI stated what she meant by "Incident" i.e. anything that was a big decision like peno, goal disallowed etc but form, subs, formation etc is all ok, its not that hard to follow common sense identifies incident, saying incident could mean kicking a ball is just silly.

Your changing what PSI said and why she changed the rules and rowing back on that change now, its so complicated its crazy.

It can be so simple:

Any big incidents that are any way contentious e.g. penalties, offsides, sending off's etc have to go into the match thread

General team discussion including formation, subs etc are fine in superthreads.

I'm sure thats what PSI meant and I think it would be fine, I don't see why you think thats a bad idea???

rosboy

This new rule seems to be causing a lot of consternation among posters.

I appreciate the reasons the mods had for changing things, and their intention was to improve the experience for all users here.

However from what I've seen on various threads today, most people don't seem to agree with the changes, or like them.

The rules are there to ensure that everyone has the best experience on Boards.ie as is possible, but this one doesn't seem to be doing that.

Why not a simple poll to see if people want to keep the new rules, or go back to the old ways? That way the users can decide what's best for themselves. If a majority of people don't agree with a rule surely it needs to be reviewed, and this would seem to me to be the best way to gauge opinion.

mayordenis

Whenever there is discussion of wherether a ball was fully over the touch line for a throw in St. James's Park on the 3rd tuesday of the month only with 3 days of the full moon may you post in your own thread, everything else must be in the new Super Facism Thread.

Wreck

Well I made a post in the arsenal super thread saying that I was excited and optimistic about the start of the season, and that I hoped Van Persie would remain injury free. I then predicted a 3-0 win today. What was the point of moving that to the match day thread?

Boggles

Why don't ye just discuss the bloody matches in the matches thread instead of coming on here whining about it without even giving it a go FFS.

MementoMori

What is the reason behind the no match discussion in the supertreads rule?

Also what constitutes match discussion as opposed to team discussion?

I can't see the need for this rule and think things would be better served by keeping match discussion in the supertreads as was the case previously.

Jazzy

i think the mods are trying to stop the tribalism.... on a soccer forum....


i think no matter wat they do it is going to happen anyway and the same old problems will arise but just in different threads.
the problem is the people that cause the issues - not the structure and rules themselves

redspider

Its quite simple folks, let people post anything about Club XYZ in a Club XYZ "super" thread, whether its matches or whatever. They can post match stuff in a match thread if they want and as they so choose. So let the poster choose.

That will give one less thing for the over-stretched mods to look out for. The rule is unpoliceable anyway as talking about Club XYZ without mentioning a match, the last match, is a contradiction in terms, as of course fans will want to talk about the most recent match as it is relevant, etc.

I vote to change the "rule".

rosboy

redspider wrote: »

Its quite simple folks, let people post anything about Club XYZ in a Club XYZ "super" thread, whether its matches or whatever. They can post match stuff in a match thread if they want and as they so choose. So let the poster choose.

That will give one less thing for the over-stretched mods to look out for. The rule is unpoliceable anyway as talking about Club XYZ without mentioning a match, the last match, is a contradiction in terms, as of course fans will want to talk about the most recent match as it is relevant, etc.

I vote to change the "rule".

Mods,

Can we have a poll?

OPENROAD

redspider wrote: »

Its quite simple folks, let people post anything about Club XYZ in a Club XYZ "super" thread, whether its matches or whatever. They can post match stuff in a match thread if they want and as they so choose. So let the poster choose.

That will give one less thing for the over-stretched mods to look out for. The rule is unpoliceable anyway as talking about Club XYZ without mentioning a match, the last match, is a contradiction in terms, as of course fans will want to talk about the most recent match as it is relevant, etc.

I vote to change the "rule".

+1

Jazzy

redspider wrote: »

Its quite simple folks, let people post anything about Club XYZ in a Club XYZ "super" thread, whether its matches or whatever. They can post match stuff in a match thread if they want and as they so choose. So let the poster choose.

That will give one less thing for the over-stretched mods to look out for. The rule is unpoliceable anyway as talking about Club XYZ without mentioning a match, the last match, is a contradiction in terms, as of course fans will want to talk about the most recent match as it is relevant, etc.

I vote to change the "rule".

yup. exactly that. +1

Mr Alan

seems the people who are against the new rule dont actually take the time to read the reasoning and logic behind it.

its quite simple, and an idea i think is at least worth trying for a while, as opposed to ****ing moaning the first match week.

-rival fans posting negative things about teams/matches in superthreads starts arguments, this is a fact. in an effort to avoid it, all match discussion, ie: good goal, was that offside, subs,fouls etc should be discussed in the match thread.

Whereas, the superthread is for the general day to day things, linked with X player, american owners are arseholes etc etc

its quite simple and if people gave it a go I'm sure it would work and help take out a lot of the clutter in the superthread, but as usual, people just ****ing moan and bitch.

annoying.

redspider

Mr Alan wrote: »

rival fans posting negative things about teams/matches in superthreads starts arguments

its quite simple

people just ****ing moan and bitch

Well, rival fans will post those things anyway. Having match 'boundaries' isnt gonna stop that.

It may be simple in concept, but it makes discussion in the superthread unworkable and its unpolcieable. What happens if a post is 46% match, 54% general issues.

I'm not moaning, just pointing out the plain impracticality of it all. Let people choose, simple.

Btw, the superthread aspect has problems in itself. Boards.ie should really have sub-forums for each of the major clubs as that would allow much more granularity in terms of discussions. There can be inter-club forums as well to discuss all things common. As a busy forum, perhaps that is the sensible way to go.

Redspider

Mr Alan

first off-you are moaning.

second of all-if you wanna make a post that is 46% match and 54% general-then make two shorter posts. one in each thread. simple.

people have chosen-by being unable to be civil on match days to eachother in the superthreads, teh mods have decided to make an attempt at cleaning the place up a little. I'm not sure if it will work but its a good idea, and at least worth a try.

Superthread -vs- SubForums has been discussed to death numerous times, AND voted for. The people who use this forum voted against it, by a rather large majority iirc.

i'd reccommend giving the new measures a chance for longer than 1 league match (the same thing i would reccommend when it comes to you verdict on the robbie keane transfer btw), if at in a few months you still think its unbearable then, well maybe that would be a more appropriate time to discuss it, and if you find the new rules too restictive in the mean time, well, you dont have to post.

GuanYin

How about as an alternative, I ban anyone accusing another person in a superthread of trolling or trying to deny a rival supporter the chance to make thir point without jumping on them...for say..... ohhhh a month, on the spot, along with anyone else who responds to the accusations.

Because the reason we did this was to stop certain individuals acting like idiots withot banning them. If you would prefer the harsh, strict banstick approach to keep your territorial pissings going on, believe me, I'll play ball and welcome the feedback threads, citing this post and those preceding as the reason you got yourselves into the situation.

You guys DARE to accuse PHB of stopping discussion when I could cite HUNDREDS of reported posts where posters in this thread try EXACTLY THE SAME THING looking for us to ban users for posting something in a Liverpool/United/Villa thread that isn't what the fans of those fora want to hear.

If you want to play this game, I have no problem being a hardass.

ghouldaddy07

while the reasons behind the change are valid I did prefer the way things were before and found superthreads to be the best way of getting the information or specific disscusion I wanted and enjoyed having both the match thread and superthread as two diffrent disscussions even if the subject overlaped.

PHB

OPENROAD wrote: »

Slightly confused, during say, the Arsenal match today, are we allowed to discuss the match/score in the Arsenal thread or must it only be discussed in the match threads i.e. weekend match thead?

The basic rule would be

Starting Line Ups
Predictions
Match going on discussion (Billy scored, this formation ain't working)
Post-match analysis
Discussions relating to the match

So the answer would be no.

Now say you were talking about Arsenals chances of winning the league after an injury in the match. That's fine to discuss in the Arsenal thread.
The superthreads are there to cover whats not left over, and to avoid have 50 random threads like, how will Arsenal do after this injury, I'm worried about the form of blah.
They are not meant to be the entirity of the discussion surrounding the club.

Wreck wrote: »

Well I made a post in the arsenal super thread saying that I was excited and optimistic about the start of the season, and that I hoped Van Persie would remain injury free. I then predicted a 3-0 win today. What was the point of moving that to the match day thread?

Well to be honest, I saw the prediction part and moved it while scrolling up. There's no really an option to spilt posts and move them.

This stinks of over modding when theres no need. I mean, its ridiculous. Are yea really going to go through each super thread with a fine comb and move all comments about matches to a different thread ?

Well no, I'd imagine after we let it settle in we'll just delete any off topic posts. I was just being nice and moving them all which in retrospect was the wrong approach as it implied lieniancy.

Jazzy wrote: »

i think the mods are trying to stop the tribalism.... on a soccer forum....

i think no matter wat they do it is going to happen anyway and the same old problems will arise but just in different threads.
the problem is the people that cause the issues - not the structure and rules themselves

The one big problem is not tribalism. It's ownership. People think the United threads are for United fans. We've told them countless times they are not. It doesn't stop. It causes the most trouble on this forum. This will end this sense of ownership.

Tusky wrote: »

Can we not have a general match thread for discussion of ALL matches but also allow discussions of matches in the superthreads ?

redspider wrote: »

Its quite simple folks, let people post anything about Club XYZ in a Club XYZ "super" thread, whether its matches or whatever. They can post match stuff in a match thread if they want and as they so choose. So let the poster choose.

The idea of a duality was discussed, but ultimately it won't solve the problems. People will still post in the superthreads that aren't Liverpool fans. If anything it will encourage the sense of ownership, and I'd wager any amount of money that if we had that system within the next 2 months somebody would say these exact words
'Go post in the other thread about this'

The rule is unpoliceable anyway as talking about Club XYZ without mentioning a match, the last match, is a contradiction in terms, as of course fans will want to talk about the most recent match as it is relevant, etc.

That for me is the most absurd argument.
Any post whatsoever that is off-topic gets deleted. Problem solved

ghouldaddy07 wrote: »

while the reasons behind the change are valid I did prefer the way things were before and found superthreads to be the best way of getting the information or specific disscusion I wanted and enjoyed having both the match thread and superthread as two diffrent disscussions even if the subject overlaped.

But it wasn't working out. Every 3rd page there would be a flame war about who is better, Torres or Ronaldo. Then people would complain and report the posts about people talking about Ronaldo in the Liverpool thread/people trolling. Even when we aggressively monitored these threads, creating new threads.

We really don't have a lot of choice in this regards anymore. We have to change from the previous system.
The superthreads were becoming a problem. Not only a problem on the server, not only a problem for discussion (especially after matches) they were a problem for modding. It ended most reasonable debate.
In the Liverpool thread before the match, there was a debate going on about Alonso. I guarantee you that if somebody came in and says the following thing

'The match today showed how Liverpool are not good enough and that Keane is a terrible buy'

that debate would vanish in a spilt second, with 3 pages of crap about debates we've all already had before with 10 reported posts most of which don't have anything wrong with them, except for the fact that people don't like others posting in their thread.

Boggles

PHB wrote: »

T
The one big problem is not tribalism. It's ownership. People think the United threads are for United fans. We've told them countless times they are not. It doesn't stop. It causes the most trouble on this forum. This will end this sense of ownership.

This is the biggest problem with the superthreads, if the new rules stamp out even half of this they will be a huge success.

Villain

Villain wrote: »

You see you said "last week" there, and PSI stated what she meant by "Incident" i.e. anything that was a big decision like peno, goal disallowed etc but form, subs, formation etc is all ok, its not that hard to follow common sense identifies incident, saying incident could mean kicking a ball is just silly.

Your changing what PSI said and why she changed the rules and rowing back on that change now, its so complicated its crazy.

It can be so simple:

Any big incidents that are any way contentious e.g. penalties, offsides, sending off's etc have to go into the match thread

General team discussion including formation, subs etc are fine in superthreads.

I'm sure thats what PSI meant and I think it would be fine, I don't see why you think thats a bad idea???

PHB what you think?

CiaranC

Can you not make it a bit more complicated?

redspider

PHB wrote: »

I'd imagine after we let it settle in we'll just delete any off topic posts.

Any post whatsoever that is off-topic gets deleted. Problem solved

We really don't have a lot of choice in this regards anymore.

Well, thats just it, people will post genuinely what they think is relevant and some mod will delete it in an instant. That is stopping discussion and it will be subjective and we will have the usual situation of mods acting hitler-like. The soccer forum on boards.ie is becoming over regulated and people have moved and will continue to move with their "feet" (fingers) and discuss elsewhere. People always have a choice.

GuanYin > I have no problem being a hardass

Thats all the soccer forum needs. A hardass mod. The mods can have their own soccer forum if they want to. A nice quiet one perhaps.

Mr Alan> i'd reccommend giving the new measures a chance for longer than 1 league match (the same thing i would reccommend when it comes to you verdict on the robbie keane transfer btw)

Well Millersangel, if you understood the Robbie Keane situation I would let you off! He has played in 6 matches, by the way. And if you read my and some others peoples posts on it, you'd realise is that I havent given a verdict on Robbie, its just that from what we know of Robbie in the past, and what Liverpool did last season, Robbie is not the solution. He suits a 4-4-2 and we've been playing 4-2-3-1. I'm sure even you will comprehend it if you read it several times. Mind you, rules such as 'match discussion goes here', 'no match discussion goes there' is easier to understand. It still doesnt make it a good rule. And one match is enough to know that.

Mr Alan> if you find the new rules too restictive in the mean time, well, you dont have to post.

Okay .... just might do that.

Chong

Great post by redspider , its become far too regulated.

PHB

What the hell is wrong with people?

You have to post match discussions in match threads.
You can post other stuff in the superthread.

That's over regulation? That's Hitler like?
Grow up for crying out loud.

Well, thats just it, people will post genuinely what they think is relevant and some mod will delete it in an instant.

So its not hard to regulate then? Ok I'm glad we've dropped this argument.
People will catch on pretty quickly, its a fairly simple system. It will stop discussion once. People will then realise, oh I was meant to post it in the other thread, and then they will post it there. You acknowledge this yourself when you post

Mind you, rules such as 'match discussion goes here', 'no match discussion goes there' is easier to understand.

The soccer forum on boards.ie is becoming over regulated and people have moved and will continue to move with their "feet" (fingers) and discuss elsewhere. People always have a choice.

The soccer forum gets busier and busier all the time, indeed the influx of people is part of the reason we need to move away from the superthreads, because the amount of posts on them is becoming astronomical. So far I've seen about 5 people have problems with this.

---

Any big incidents that are any way contentious e.g. penalties, offsides, sending off's etc have to go into the match thread

General team discussion including formation, subs etc are fine in superthreads.

I'm sure thats what PSI meant and I think it would be fine, I don't see why you think thats a bad idea???

As I said, I think you've read too much into the change in the word incident. As for the proposal itself,
That would be absurdly difficult to moderate and regulate as most posts would no doubt refer to both aspects. In reality, the system would break down. It however would fix some of the problems.

Can somebody tell me exactly, what their problem is with posting in a match thread? Not the overregulation whatever, an actual problem they have.

astrofool

All these rules have indeed made the forum super rubbishy, and have been a plaster on the whole superethread "my turf" notion (GuanYin referring to the superthreads as fora is also ridiculously funny).

Me?

I'd probably remove the report poster functionality and let people flame a bit, and get into arguments when necessary (it's a forum, posting about someone being an as*hole won't hurt anyone), banning those that go over the top, I'd ban for a month people that get uppity about "their turf".

If that failed to work, I'd rework the entire forum, dividing it into either leagues or teams.

There has been a bit of a sea change here in the last few months, and not for the better, and it feels like it's all falling apart now, there's very little actual discussion going on.

PHB, the fact that you've had to go over the rules so many times, has that not indicated to you that they are never ever going to work? Maybe you should try modding the legal forum.

Villain

The forum should be to help discussion and encourage people to post these do the opposite IMO

PHB

astrofool wrote: »

I'd probably remove the report poster functionality and let people flame a bit, and get into arguments when necessary (it's a forum, posting about someone being an as*hole won't hurt anyone), banning those that go over the top, I'd ban for a month people that get uppity about "their turf".

The forum has been shut down in the past. That is never ever ever going to happen. Even if all the mods wanted it, the admins would laugh at the suggestion.

There has been a bit of a sea change here in the last few months, and not for the better, and it feels like it's all falling apart now, there's very little actual discussion going on.

It was the summer?

PHB, the fact that you've had to go over the rules so many times, has that not indicated to you that they are never ever going to work? Maybe you should try modding the legal forum.

Maybe its because people can't get simple ideas into their head.

Match discussion in one thread.
Anything else in another thread.

A 5 year old child could understand that. Oh, you ya know what the most hilarious thing is. Pretty much every single other soccer forum on the internet has a match thread where all the match discussions go!! Jesus christ like.

The forum should be to help discussion and encourage people to post these do the opposite IMO

Why? Saying the discussion should go in one place does not dis-encourage discussion. It's just saying, go to the proper place.
That's like saying, saying that posting transfer rumours about Liverpool in the Man United thread is not allowed is dis-encouraging discussion.

Wreck

Boggles wrote: »

Why don't ye just discuss the bloody matches in the matches thread instead of coming on here whining about it without even giving it a go FFS.

Mr Alan wrote: »

its quite simple, and an idea i think is at least worth trying for a while, as opposed to ****ing moaning the first match week.

its quite simple and if people gave it a go I'm sure it would work and help take out a lot of the clutter in the superthread, but as usual, people just ****ing moan and bitch.

annoying.

Any idea how annoying it is to be accused of bitching and moaning for asking questions and discussing the new rules in the rules discussion thread?

PHB wrote: »

But it wasn't working out. Every 3rd page there would be a flame war about who is better, Torres or Ronaldo. Then people would complain and report the posts about people talking about Ronaldo in the Liverpool thread/people trolling. Even when we aggressively monitored these threads, creating new threads.

You are still going to have to deal with flame wars like this, whether on the match threads or the super threads. Moving all discussion even vaguely related to match to the match day thread won't stop people arguing and reporting posts.

PHB wrote: »

In the Liverpool thread before the match, there was a debate going on about Alonso. I guarantee you that if somebody came in and says the following thing

'The match today showed how Liverpool are not good enough and that Keane is a terrible buy'

that debate would vanish in a spilt second, with 3 pages of crap about debates we've all already had before with 10 reported posts most of which don't have anything wrong with them, except for the fact that people don't like others posting in their thread.

So now instead of the three pages of crap being confined to the Liverpool thread we are all going to be subjected to it on the match discussion thread instead? I really don't see the point.

PHB wrote: »

The one big problem is not tribalism. It's ownership. People think the United threads are for United fans. We've told them countless times they are not. It doesn't stop. It causes the most trouble on this forum. This will end this sense of ownership.

This will only increase the sense of ownership. Surely match discussion was one of the main reasons rival fans would post in the superthreads? Now that this is no longer allowed, the superthreads will be bereft of oppososition fans, thus increasing the sense of ownership of the threads.

GuanYin wrote: »

How about as an alternative, I ban anyone accusing another person in a superthread of trolling or trying to deny a rival supporter the chance to make thir point without jumping on them...for say..... ohhhh a month, on the spot, along with anyone else who responds to the accusations.

This seems like a very good idea. If people aren't willing to let others offer different opinions what is the point of having them on the forum in the first place?

redspider wrote: »

Its quite simple folks, let people post anything about Club XYZ in a Club XYZ "super" thread, whether its matches or whatever. They can post match stuff in a match thread if they want and as they so choose. So let the poster choose.

This tbh.

astrofool

It's because the mods allowed the superthreads to become their own mini forum (really crappy forum, but thats how it was used, even the man u discussion group is better for example).

Now you want to reverse that, but it's far too late (although I did warn about the superthreads getting ridiculous very near the start of their existance).

It's a problem the mods have created, and now they are running around trying to get it to stop, that's never going to happen. Football supporters like their own turf, they're generally quite conservative, so a big change like this will run into a huge amount of problems.

I definitely agree with the rules, but they are not going to work (without killing a hefty portion of the forum), and that is the mods/admins fault.

Also, whoever gave spurs their own forum, talk about double standards, it's a proper spurs forums, with match going being a side topic.

redspider

PHB wrote: »

Maybe its because people can't get simple ideas into their head.
Match discussion in one thread.
Anything else in another thread.
A 5 year old child could understand that.

Pretty much every single other soccer forum on the internet has a match thread where all the match discussions go!! Jesus christ like.

Why? Saying the discussion should go in one place does not dis-encourage discussion. It's just saying, go to the proper place.

Well a 4-year old will understand that match issues ARE relevant to a clubs thread. They are.

On other soccer forums, the mods there do NOT delete posts because someone may have mentioned a match in a post in a non-match thread. So perhaps its not the rule per se, perhaps its the implementation and the policing attempt of it. Stop the moving, stop the deletions, let people post match issues in match threads and match issues in non-match threads. Thats the way it was. Encourage people to post match issues in match threads by all means.

Deletions of posts, moving of posts, bannings for people, and now pages and pages of discussions about the rules does discourage discussion. With too much red tape, too much hassle, people go elsewhere, simple.

Boggles

Jesus lads most of ye complaining havn't even posted in the proper weekend match thread, if you put half as much effort into FOOTBALL discussion as ye do bítchíng there might be a significant improvement allround.

If the soccer forum was a discusion with your mates down the pub and ye acted like this, ye would be left out of the next round.

There are 3 important matches on today by the way.

Wreck

Boggles wrote: »

if you put half as much effort into FOOTBALL discussion as ye do bítchíng there might be a significant improvement allround.

Again, what's with the accusations of bitching for discussing the rules in the thread for discussing the rules?

Boggles

Wreck wrote: »

Again, what's with the accusations of bitching for discussing the rules in the thread for discussing the rules?

At least try something before forming an opinion on it, then you can discuss (bítch) all day.

Wreck

Boggles wrote: »

At least try something before forming an opinion on it, then you can discuss (bítch) all day.

Oh no, I'm not falling for that again. That's what my cell mate said to me about anal sex my first night in the joy.

SantryRed

This threads a load bollocks. It's changed and get on with it.

Stop moaning:rolleyes:

Jazzy

PHB wrote: »

Match discussion in one thread.
Anything else in another thread.

A 5 year old child could understand that. Oh, you ya know what the most hilarious thing is. Pretty much every single other soccer forum on the internet has a match thread where all the match discussions go!! Jesus christ like.

as far as im aware, most other forums dont have superthreads.

leninbenjamin

Jazzy wrote: »

as far as im aware, most other forums dont have superthreads.

and most other forums also suck donkey balls.

i'm happy with the new guidelines. for once i found it easy to keep track of the flow of conversation over the weekend.

Hobart

I more or less highlighted the above issues here => http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=56570442&postcount=116 over a month ago. The implementation of these rules are not going to work full time, as the line between team/match discussion is a blurred one.

People telling people that they are "bitching" etc...are actually being counter-productive, and should just stfu, it's a discussion on the rules ffs.

Secondly, I don't believe that it's a try before you buy type thing. It's valid and correct to discuss these things now, and it blatantly obvious that there has been confusion over the weekend about what should go where.

I would suggest that if modding is an issue for the mods, they should reconsider their positions, nobody gets paid/forced to do this, step down if the forum is a pain in the ass.

Astrofool makes some very valid points (waits for world to crack in half !!) as does redspider, I think the mods would do well to re-read what they have said, as some seem to have missed the point(s).

--amadeus--

I'm a regular reader but occasional poster and so maybe have a slightly different perspective to some of the "old hands".

First comment on the match threads is that they are quite "big 4" centric. As it happens I follow LFC so I don't mind but followers of other clubs may find it frustrating that any comments they might make will be swallowed by 3 pages about the big clubs, something that wouldn't have happened in club threads.

On match threads there is an in-built assumption that everyone knows who everyone follows - "we" seems to be the most commonly used word! That coupled with player initials means that it can be difficult to follow the thread of a conversation - Poster 1 "We need to get the ball down and play it more!" Poster 2 "Our formation isn't working at all" - they could be agreeing or talking about totally different games! Unless you know who they suport you'dnever know and a jumble of simultanious discussion makes that worse. In essence the match thread makes it harder for fans of different teams to talk, not easier.

Thirdy - the assumption has to be that everyone is over 16 here. What is the problem with disagreement? What's the harm in the occasional argument? There is a world of difference between trolling and disagreing but there seems to be an attempt to have an almost school debate type discussion. In the real world that's not how football conversations happen. A lighter moderator hand (using the new yellow / red card system, which is a great idea) might encourage people to act like grown ups

At the moment there is a drive to encourage different sets of fans to talk to each other rather than shout at each other. This is good and worthwhile. But what's happening is a babble of noise and the new rules seem very unpopular. On teh surface they seem simple but the dividing line on match / non-match is too arbitrary and open to interpretation by moderators and posters. And what was so wrong with having multiple discussions in the first place?

Mr Alan

good post amadeus. not that i agree with it all, but its a good post.

I think the weekend match threads should be broken up into two.

*matches involving the big 4
*matches excluding the big 4

that really should make it dead simple to restrict match discussion to the correct place and make it dead easy to follow.

Xavi6

--amadeus-- wrote: »

First comment on the match threads is that they are quite "big 4" centric. As it happens I follow LFC so I don't mind but followers of other clubs may find it frustrating that any comments they might make will be swallowed by 3 pages about the big clubs, something that wouldn't have happened in club threads.

Excellent point and one I can relate to.

Don't agree with us being treated as second class citizens and threads being split to facilitate the 'Top 4'. Sure there are more Villa fans posting here than Chelsea.

kida

Would a simple resolution not to be to allow bigger teams (in terms of forum membership) a separate match thread, or perhaps any televised match can have its own thread?

Xavi6

kida wrote: »

Would a simple resolution not to be to allow bigger teams (in terms of forum membership) a separate match thread, or perhaps any televised match can have its own thread?

But all matches are televised these days. Hit the red button or grab a stream.

Villain

Originally the mods said we could have as many threads as we like, not sure if that still is the case the way, the title of the match thread was changed.

5starpool

While I appreciate that the dynamic and makeup of this forum makes it more attritional than most others, I think the no discussion of matches in superthreads is too far, and the post GuanYin saying that the only alternative is to issue month long bans for feck all is a ridiculously childish thing. I read here far more than I post here, but surely trolling/baiting of liverpool or man u fans is as likely to happen (or more likely given their nature) in the match discussion threads as it would be in the main threads?

Mr Alan

5starpool wrote: »

but surely trolling/baiting of liverpool or man u fans is as likely to happen (or more likely given their nature) in the match discussion threads as it would be in the main threads?

nope.

saying something like Scholes is a dirty little player who cant tackle, or Steven Gerrard is hypocritcal as hell as he has just dived can be percieved as trolling when posted in the superthreads due to the territorial nature of them, whereas in the match thread, they are nothing more than observations that may or may not be true.

Wreck

Well, hopefully the mods have decided to take a more lenient view on match discussion in the superthreads as there are now numerous posts in all of the threads discussing the weekend's games. Three examples below. Note these are not the best examples, but are rather chosen for who the posters are.

GuanYin

Boggles

PHB

This is definelty at odds with the sentiment that

PHB wrote: »

Anything that is related to the match will be deleted

It seems that a comprimise may work?

Mr Alan

wreck: GYs is vague and is about the partnership between Torres and Keane and whether it will work.

PHBs is about whether or not VDS should be dropped for upcoming games due to his mistake at the weekend.

neither are specifically related to the match at the weekend. seems to me that people just wanna "fight the power" instead of giving the rules a shot and posting stuff purely to do with the match...eg:offside/onside/foul/line-ups/great goal/great save/yellow card/red card etc in the match thread, and everything else in the superthread.

Hobart

Mr Alan wrote: »

wreck: GYs is vague and is about the partnership between Torres and Keane and whether it will work.

. It's not vague. In fact he quite clearly says that they do not look a good partnership to him "in the two games that he has seen". Games = matches = related

PHBs is about whether or not VDS should be dropped for upcoming games due to his mistake at the weekend.

PHB says "He made a mistake which resulted in a corner. While he's partly to blame for the goal", again clearly match related.

neither are specifically related to the match at the weekend. seems to me that people just wanna "fight the power" instead of giving the rules a shot and posting stuff purely to do with the match...eg:offside/onside/foul/line-ups/great goal/great save/yellow card/red card etc in the match thread, and everything else in the superthread.

I don't think it's anything got to do with a "fight the power" thing at all. As I have said before THIS IS A DISCUSSION OF THE RULES, and there are grey areas. If the rules are clarified, well then they are the rules that will have to be abided by, but discussing them is what this thread is all about.

Wreck

Mr Alan wrote: »

wreck: GYs is vague and is about the partnership between Torres and Keane and whether it will work.

PHBs is about whether or not VDS should be dropped for upcoming games due to his mistake at the weekend.

neither are specifically related to the match at the weekend. seems to me that people just wanna "fight the power" instead of giving the rules a shot and posting stuff purely to do with the match...eg:offside/onside/foul/line-ups/great goal/great save/yellow card/red card etc in the match thread, and everything else in the superthread.

I'm not having a go or anything but the posts I linked to are definetly related to the weekend matches - GuanYin is discussing how Kean and Torres performed in the match against Sunderland, PHB is discussing VDS's performance against the toon. As I originally stated when linking to these posts, there are far more obvious/blatant match discussions ongoing in the superthreads and they are not being moved or deleted. If this is a softening of the no match discussion rule then it is something I very much welcome.

And just so you can see what I am talking about, here is a link to a post that was made in one of the superthreads and subsequently moved to the match thread. Is this any more match related than any of the three posts I linked to?

For what its worth, I truly respect the soccer mods and think they do a great job in keeping the forum organised and flame war free. I'm not trying to 'fight the power', I just want to see some common sense applied in relation to the match day and super threads.

Mr Alan

Hobart wrote: »

. It's not vague. In fact he quite clearly says that they do not look a good partnership to him "in the two games that he has seen". Games = matches = related

PHB says "He made a mistake which resulted in a corner. While he's partly to blame for the goal", again clearly match related.


I don't think it's anything got to do with a "fight the power" thing at all. As I have said before THIS IS A DISCUSSION OF THE RULES, and there are grey areas. If the rules are clarified, well then they are the rules that will have to be abided by, but discussing them is what this thread is all about.

this is bordering on ridiculous.

its ok to discuss past matches/future matches in the superthreads, its also alright to refer to matches ie:i think VDS should be dropped for future matches cause of the mistake he made. I think the Keane/Torres thing may struggle due to the few performances i've seen so far.

people are being so ****ing pedantic, its ****ing ridiculous.

in my view, and i think in the view of the mods who have explained it numerous times already:

incidents in the match directly before or after the match or discussion of someones performance in a particular match at/near the time of the match, lineups,refs decisions,goals,sending offs etc=match thread.

everything else that is not as directly related to the game, superthread.