Limerick Northern Distributor Road Plan

zulutango

riverrocked wrote:

zulutango I feel like singing that annoying frozen song. It feels like it is time to 'Let it go....'

Just answering questions that were asked ..

panda100

zulutango wrote: »

Who do you think is wrong and why?

Nobody is wrong, it was just a tounge in cheek reflection on internet debates.

mdmix

Regarding the road, certain sections are badly needed, moyross to coonagh and access to UL and the business park to Clare. Traffic is crazy in castletory and any further development of the dublin road or groody area will face issues due to traffic management.

marno21

mdmix wrote: »

Regarding the road, certain sections are badly needed, moyross to coonagh and access to UL and the business park to Clare. Traffic is crazy in castletory and any further development of the dublin road or groody area will face issues due to traffic management.

The Dublin Road is backed up from Finnegans to the Hurlers at 5:45pm at the minute, with UL not on semester. There's no doubt a queue back the road into the technology park as well. No scope for any form of growth with that in mind.

Mc Love

marno21 wrote: »

The Dublin Road is backed up from Finnegans to the Hurlers at 5:45pm at the minute, with UL not on semester. There's no doubt a queue back the road into the technology park as well. No scope for any form of growth with that in mind.

And the traffic lights were supposed to be "smart" lights

pigtown

marno21 wrote: »

The Dublin Road is backed up from Finnegans to the Hurlers at 5:45pm at the minute, with UL not on semester. There's no doubt a queue back the road into the technology park as well. No scope for any form of growth with that in mind.

In which direction? This could be a summer thing but I drive to the Parkway shopping centre for 9 every morning and it take max 10 minutes to get there from the Cappamore junction. Do I miss the morning traffic?

marno21

pigtown wrote: »

In which direction? This could be a summer thing but I drive to the Parkway shopping centre for 9 every morning and it take max 10 minutes to get there from the Cappamore junction. Do I miss the morning traffic?

Outbound in the evening. I go via Groody in the mornings so not sure about the inbound morning traffic.

dashoonage

He isnt taking the piss...i leave the tech park at 5:30 and its 6pm some evenings when i get to Finnegans.

pigtown

dashoonage wrote: »

He isnt taking the piss...i leave the tech park at 5:30 and its 6pm some evenings when i get to Finnegans.

Oh I believe him, used to stay in college until 7 just to avoid that traffic. I'm just wondering when it's busy in the mornings.

Glenomra

I have listened to all the arguments relating to the proposed road at both Clare and Limerick councils and remain totally opposed to the road. Principally because the road is to be built on one of the principal floodplains of the river Shannon in a Special Area of Conservation. I consider that daft, especially considering the promoters had alternatives. Imo this proposal will be rejected by an Borders Plea ala wasting valuable time and money. I fully understand that people are frustrated with various traffic issues but do they realise that even if built this road is at least a decade off and that's not allowing for the inevitable legal delays which could add another five years to the completion date. And do people realise that there are cheaper alternatives that could see traffic alleviated within a very short period.

pigtown

Well there was a very comprehensive report done on possible flooding and preventative measures which should be put in place. Why do you think An Bord Plean?la will reject it? What are the inevitable legal delays?

Glenomra

Regardless of how comprehensive a report on flooding on the Shannon is, the subject is so controversial and the possible implications are so severe that inevitably it will lead to arguments. Once they decided to build on the floodplain rather than on higher ground it became inevitable that the process will be marked by disagreements and finally legal argument. Already there has been an unprecedented two year delay in getting Limerick to put it in their county plan. Never previously has a council failed to put a new road plan on their county plan. Remember there were 485 submissions in Clare almost all against the road. Yet Clare unlike Limerick failed to engage with the locals and refused to make even the slightest deviation to the plan. That plus the promoters failure to investigate the alternatives as they are supposed to do, will Imo end up with either an initial Bord Pleanala rejection or a court appeal from the three action groups organised to oppose it. That's my opinion. Maybe I am wrong, we will see

adaminho

Glenomra wrote: »

I have listened to all the arguments relating to the proposed road at both Clare and Limerick councils and remain totally opposed to the road. Principally because the road is to be built on one of the principal floodplains of the river Shannon in a Special Area of Conservation. I consider that daft, especially considering the promoters had alternatives. Imo this proposal will be rejected by an Borders Plea ala wasting valuable time and money. I fully understand that people are frustrated with various traffic issues but do they realise that even if built this road is at least a decade off and that's not allowing for the inevitable legal delays which could add another five years to the completion date. And do people realise that there are cheaper alternatives that could see traffic alleviated within a very short period.

Glenomra wrote: »

Regardless of how comprehensive a report on flooding on the Shannon is, the subject is so controversial and the possible implications are so severe that inevitably it will lead to arguments. Once they decided to build on the floodplain rather than on higher ground it became inevitable that the process will be marked by disagreements and finally legal argument. Already there has been an unprecedented two year delay in getting Limerick to put it in their county plan. Never previously has a council failed to put a new road plan on their county plan. Remember there were 485 submissions in Clare almost all against the road. Yet Clare unlike Limerick failed to engage with the locals and refused to make even the slightest deviation to the plan. That plus the promoters failure to investigate the alternatives as they are supposed to do, will Imo end up with either an initial Bord Pleanala rejection or a court appeal from the three action groups organised to oppose it. That's my opinion. Maybe I am wrong, we will see

Whilst I think the road is a good idea I think in your first two posts you've put together a better argument against it than the ban the car's brigade!

zulutango

Who are the 'ban the cars brigade'?

johnnyryan89

Glenomra wrote: »

I fully understand that people are frustrated with various traffic issues but do they realise that even if built this road is at least a decade off and that's not allowing for the inevitable legal delays which could add another five years to the completion date. And do people realise that there are cheaper alternatives that could see traffic alleviated within a very short period.

For me it's not even about traffic issues but more so opening up the Northside of the city to the Eastside.

adaminho

zulutango wrote: »

Who are the 'ban the cars brigade'?

zulutango wrote: »

Traffic is too fast on O'Connell Street as it is! Thankfully that'll change with the refurb work they're doing. If we'd any ambition as a city we'd have no cars on it at all though.

From the business opening thread.

Glenomra

I am a daily commuter to Limerick using the corbally road so I am very familiar with the problems there. Currently friends and family members access ul etc using this road. They thought that the recent announcement on the road meant that their delays would soon be a thing of the past. They almost went into shock when I told them that it would be at least a decade before this road could be bui

Glenomra

Despite the risk of generating tedium for people reading my posts on the road I am going to give a little background on it for those who might not be familiar with its long history. The route for this road was first indicated in February 2005 - a long gestation. The proposed road is a project developed by Clare Council at the behest of UL. Clare stands to generate substantial rates from subsequent development in the area from the university and industrialists\developers; UL will get room to expand. Both bodies are well entitled to promote their own interests. No report ever published -prior to 2015- by Limerick City has ever called for the road, indeed before the city and county amalgamation, the city weren't even involved in the project. The promoters of the road have a few major hurdles to deal with before the road can be constructed. The road involves building 4 significant bridges, 3 of them in 'sensitive' areas. 1. the bridge over the Ardancrusha canal can only be built over the tail-race as the ESB will not allow a crossing over the earthen embankments of the head-race arguing that any subsidence of the banks could cause 'catastrophic' flooding. Their terminology, not mine. This means that the 4 lane dual carrriageway has to travel through the outer part of Parteen Village. This route has generated a very negative response from many -though naturally not all -people in the village. over 400 people attended the Clare council meeting on the issue. Those people will oppose it. 2. Bridge over the old canal and adjoining Blackwater river at Gillogue. 3. a crossing of the Shannon at Shravokee on one of the river's largest floodplains. the same floodplain that affects Springmount as 'seen on TV'. The soil at this crossing in -a Special Area of Conservation- because of the nature of the millenia of river deposits, is inherently unstable. It proved extremely difficult for specialists to find the bedrock during the initial exploratory stage. Consequently the proposed bridge will have to be a very large structure; the largest crossing ever built in the country says relevant engineers. I have no doubt but that it can be easily built but who will justify the cost. would 120 million fund this crossing alone. 4. bridge over the Mulcair river, also in a floodplain. There are other complicating factors but I think the above are enough to show this road is only a 'mirage', a sop to people who ask what are the authorities doing about the traffic. It enables them to say we are going to build the Northern Distributor Road, which will alleviate all difficulties. Question them on the subject and you will learn that they realize this road will not be built for decades if indeed it is ever built. And there are alternatives that could greatly improve local traffic at far less cost to the taxpayer and hte landscape.

zulutango

Adaminho, isn't it a bit of a blunt generalisation to label people who are against the LNDR as the 'ban the car brigade' because they believe there shouldn't be cars on the main street in the city? If you don't think there should be cars on Grafton Street in Dublin, are you now also part of the 'ban the cars brigade'? If that's the level of the discussion we are just wasting our time.

Strettie11

Glenomra,

Are you sure of the following
No report ever published -prior to 2015- by Limerick City has ever called for the road, indeed before the city and county amalgamation, the city weren't even involved in the project.


The LNDR is referenced in:
The Mid West Regional Planning guidelines published 2010
The mid west public transport Feasibility report published June 2012
the Mid West area Strategic Plan 2013 ,

Limerick city and county councils were members of the steering group that prepared the above reports

Public consultations took place in summer 2011 in Greenhills hotel limerick on the LNDR at which Limerick city and council representatives were present

Also the LNDR is referred to and shown in appendices to Fitzgerald report on Limerick regeneration published 2006 . The report emphasised "The planned link road from the Coonagh roundabout to the Moyross Interchange should be ‘frontloaded’ and progressed as a matter of urgency." This section of the road is the first to receive funding from central government

** Edited for following LNDR is referenced in the Limerick City Development 2010 - 2016 plan published November 2010 **

Glenomra

I stand corrected. I couldn't find any report detailing the actual need for the road apart from general recommendations that it would be a good idea

Strettie11

Glenomra,

Well done on standing corrected.:)

Best report that summarises history and issues that I have found is from the Clare County Council website I have posted a link here

http://bit.ly/2rqLTW0

Glenomra

well if one is wrong, one is wrong!.as far as I am concerned the battle for this road -sounds a bit like the first World war- will be fought at Bord Pleanala not on boards and its interesting to have the exchange of ideas in the meantime

zulutango

No report has offered a thorough analysis of the need for the road that I know of. It is referenced and mentioned in various reports but there hasn't actually been a professional study that looked at the problem and then concluded that the LNDR was the best solution. If somebody knows of one, please let me know as I'd like to read it.

Strettie11

Have you read the one I referenced ?

zulutango

Strettie11 wrote: »

Have you read the one I referenced ?

Nope. Thanks for that. I'll read through it.

pigtown

I had a look at that report and it doesn't say why this road was chosen as the way to alleviate traffic. Is does claim to be consistent with the Smarter Travel approach because buses and cyclists can use it.

Since it's going ahead anyway, I wonder would people support a two-pronged approach to traffic management;
New road to divert traffic away from the city centre combined with a city centre transport plan which massively reduces roadspace for cars and builds wider footpaths and proper cycle lanes, alongside actual bus lanes that don't allow parking in them.

adaminho

zulutango wrote: »

Adaminho, isn't it a bit of a blunt generalisation to label people who are against the LNDR as the 'ban the car brigade' because they believe there shouldn't be cars on the main street in the city? I

No, as i said Glenomra made a better argument against the Lndr than your car's will be obsolete in 10 years time!

zulutango

adaminho wrote:

No, as i said Glenomra made a better argument against the Lndr than your car's will be obsolete in 10 years time!

Ehh ... where did I say that? And why do you put an apostrophe in cars ..

adaminho

zulutango wrote: »

Another thing to think about is the revolutionary effect on transport that autonomous vehicles are going to have in the next decade or so. It's widely thought that they will lead to a collapse in the number of cars on our roads. We may be throwing 140 million euro at a road that simply isn't needed. As taxpayers we should be up in arms about this kind of profligacy.

zulutango wrote: »

Ehh ... where did I say that? And why do you put an apostrophe in cars ..

I'd be more worried about your memory than my punctuation.