Limerick Northern Distributor Road Plan

mitresize5

I don't think anyone thinks they will start building it tomorrow by 12 years from now is nonsense. The dublin port tunnel was 16 from conception to the first truck. And this for a project multiple times the size under the capital city.

Also this project is approved by Clare co co already so it's not like it's starting with a blank sheet this week

And even if it does take 12 years that shouldn't be a reason not to build it. If that was the way things worked nothing would every be build.

Glenomra

There is no way it can be built in less than ten years. And if it does take at least a decade why not open the Clare side to the UL campus in the meantime to alleviate the current traffic congestion.

Cookiemunster

Glenomra wrote: »

There is no way it can be built in less than ten years. And if it does take at least a decade why not open the Clare side to the UL campus in the meantime to alleviate the current traffic congestion.

It can easily be built in less than ten years. Now that doesn't mean that it will get done, but they from the stage they are at now to road opening could easily be done in 5 years.

zulutango

I don't think it'll happen at all. The opposition is too strong and it doesn't make much sense from an economic point of view. 140 million euro is way too much to throw at a project with very questionable benefits.

zulutango

Cookiemunster wrote:

The original Galway ring road was pulled because ABP refused permission for half of it. It's since been redesigned is due to be resubmitted to ABP this year. So it hasn't been before ABP since 2008.

Construction of the original Galway ring road finished years ago. Of course, it didn't work out too well. So, what's the solution? Build another ring road outside the original! Galway is fecked (long term) because of such shockingly poor decisions. In Limerick we have a chance of not making the same mistakes but we seem determined to do so.

Glenomra

Cookiemunster wrote: »

It can easily be built in less than ten years. Now that doesn't mean that it will get done, but they from the stage they are at now to road opening could easily be done in 5 years.

The Clare county manager on record said because of the various stages required by legislation it would take at least ten years to get the project completed. So ten years it is at minimum. That's a long time to put up with traffic congestion that could be eased by a few targeted policies

Cookiemunster

Glenomra wrote: »

The Clare county manager on record said because of the various stages required by legislation it would take at least ten years to get the project completed. So ten years it is at minimum. That's a long time to put up with traffic congestion that could be eased by a few targeted policies

The Clare county manager is talking through his arse. Have a look at the history of road building in this country. The route plan has already been done. If it passed ABP and got funding it could easily be open in 5 years. The various stages are planning, EIS, ABP, CPO, build. That doesn't ever take 10 years from the stage they're at now unless the money isn't there.

Glenomra

I could give you numerous examples of how similar sized projects take at least a decade to get from route selection to completion. One much smaller local project; the Killaloe Bypass, the route was selected in March 2009, eight years ago - and nothing built yet. Adare, Trim, Galway, Kilkenny etc etc all got routes selected but ................ Thinking that we can have this Distributor Road in less than ten years is only fooling ourselves and stopping people from taking the immediate steps necessary to alleviate traffic congestion.

Cookiemunster

Glenomra wrote: »

I could give you numerous examples of how similar sized projects take at least a decade to get from route selection to completion. One much smaller local project; the Killaloe Bypass, the route was selected in March 2009, eight years ago - and nothing built yet. Adare, Trim, Galway, Kilkenny etc etc all got routes selected but ................ Thinking that we can have this Distributor Road in less than ten years is only fooling ourselves and stopping people from taking the immediate steps necessary to alleviate traffic congestion.

They examples you mention were not held up by the process, they were held up to lack of money and or political interference. The Adare bypass got permission for a northern route, but this was scrapped so a southern route could be tacked on to the M20, which itself got scrapped by FG. If the decision hadn't been made to tack it onto the M20 it would have been open years ago.

Killaloe has been held up by the lack of funding during the recession.

I've already explained by the Galway bypass hasn't yet been built.

The process from planning to build takes around 5 years. These other project weren't delayed because of the process.

Glenomra

Adare was refused planning permission, and Killaloe was also held up by the process, a protracted legal appeal held it up for years

zulutango

Cookiemunster wrote:

They examples you mention were not held up by the process, they were held up to lack of money and or political interference.

Are these not relevant in the context of the LNDR?

Cookiemunster

zulutango wrote: »

Are these not relevant in the context of the LNDR?

Of course it is and I never said that it would be built within five years (or at all). My point is that the process doesn't take at least 10 years as was being claimed.

phog

zulutango wrote: »

Construction of the original Galway ring road finished years ago. Of course, it didn't work out too well. So, what's the solution? Build another ring road outside the original! Galway is fecked (long term) because of such shockingly poor decisions. In Limerick we have a chance of not making the same mistakes but we seem determined to do so.

Galway doesn't have a ring road, it has an arc, similar to Limerick actually. This distributor road will complete the ring around Limerick.

If high density and public transport investment is going to be the solution why shouldn't we all move to Dublin and close the rest of the country?

marno21

Galway's functional ring road is in planning: www.n6galwaycity.ie

The existing mess cobbled through the city with tight at grade junctions was always going to turn out as it has when shopping centres etc were lined along the route. Galway also suffers from downright pathetic planning which means it's going to be very difficult to solve congestion issues. Look at the amount of one off housing by Galway commuters (e.g. out the R339) which renders most options useless. The volume of housing west of the Corrib and volume of industry east of the Corrib is a major issue too. It would be a good start if people invested in bikes for their 5km commute.

Limerick's north eastern quadrant suffers from extremely poor roads. It has no proper access to the motorway, and yet contains a major university, thousands of houses and several large employers (Northern Trust, Vistakon, various companies in the Technology Park, Annacotty Business Park amongst others). This road will provide proper access for all these and remove cars from Castletroy's roads so they can be better used for cyclists, pedestrians and public transport. Like Galway, changes can't be made to the roads without moving traffic elsewhere. This route is the last remaining corridor into Castletroy which hasn't been developed.

I can see it costing quite a bit as it'll likely have to be elevated in parts to avoid flooding.

geotrig

this road really does need to go ahead in one form or another , I was parked on the corbally road for a bit on friday and was actully really surprised at how many articulated lorry and bit trucks use this road , its a road that is not built for that type of traffic .

zulutango

phog wrote: »

If high density and public transport investment is going to be the solution why shouldn't we all move to Dublin and close the rest of the country?

Can you elaborate on that? I don't get your logic.

BobMc

Cant see it happening myself, is there not also a ton of limitations with regards where the ESB are allowed or maybe concerned about where the bridge crossing is located to cross either the head or tailrace. Thats a huge impedement to this going ahead also. I do fee some sort of stop gap for Clare Access to both UL and that side of town would lighten the load going thru corbally for that side of town

Glenomra

it is understandable that people want to see the present Corbally traffic alleviated and would like to see the Distributor road being built. The problem with relying on that road is that people will have to wait at least a decade and almost certainly much longer to see it constructed. I am not an engineer or claim to be an expert on the road but i am well informed on it -having read every single page of the thousands of pages compiled by the planners on the road. sad, i know !. I am sharing a little of what i have learnt. people can accept or not.
Planners decided on a large road arc to bring as much land as possible within its orbit, for UL, housing and industrial purposes and avoiding built up areas to lessen opposition to the proposed road. Two problems arose, one outside of their control, one self-inflicted. The ESB refused permission for the road to cross over the headrace, over their earthen and concrete banks, warning of the danger of 'catastrophic' flooding if the banks were undermined by pile driving etc. Consequently the road has to through the outer part Parteen Village over the Tail-race an important ecological site. Many people in Parteen probably welcome the new road but enough people are angry at the idea of the proposed four lane dual-carriageway for the road to become a political issue there. However, this was not the planners fault. The second one is. They propose building the road through the Springfield floodplain across to Lisnagry - the same floodplain in which houses have been flooded [clonlare flooding] with so much negative publicity. They could have crossed the Shannon in other locations without affecting a floodplain but they went for the jugular. huge mistake imo. The contractors testing the soil in 2015 in Garraun townland had to go to record depths nationally to reach bedrock - from the accumulation of alluvial soil over millenia. To build a crossing on the Shannon at this point will involve enormous construction costs across almost two miles of this terrain. I am not detailing the objections from the Lisnagry end or the negative effects the road would have on the tunnel finances, which taxpayers subsidise, plus ecolological concerns re potential damage to a Special Area of Conservation, the alluvail site at the proposed Mulcair crossing etc etc. I am just highlighting how big a project this road will be. Certainly engineers can build it plus put in the banks to control flooding etc etc but it will be an enormousy expensive project, those in the know say a quarter of a billion - very difficult for any department to justivy on economic grounds. There is no point in pretending that it can be built within anything less than ten years - all going 'swimmingly well'. What causes some confusion, is that there is also Distributor Road Phase 1, which is due to start soon -Coonagh to Moylish. A friend of mine was ecstatic when he read in a local paper that the Distributor Road was about to be built within the next two years. I won't repeat his response when he heard that he would have to wait at least a decade for Distributor Road 2. If people want a solution tot he present traffic difficulties don't put all your faith in this road.

zulutango

If the money wasn't there to build the LNDR (and there's no guarantee that it is), what would be the measures that could be undertaken to solve the traffic issue?

Glenomra

I realize that I am like a broken record on this one. link the Larkin's cross to 'Burlington road' with the UL campus. all it will take is a single bridge over the Blackwater\canal a distance of tens of metres. improve the Clare access roads leading towards Corbally, from Broadford and from killaloe thereby enabling Ul students and staff living in Counties Clare and Tipperary to access the UL campus from the Clare side. that would enable people from cratloe, ennis, tulla etc etc to all reach UL quickly. That is one simple change that would make a great improvement for relatively little outlay.... as proposed by some councilors in county Clare. Personally, i could name many tens of students and staff members clogging up city routes getting to UL. i am sure other posters could identify other changes that would not require a decade long wait and expenditure of a quarter of a billion euro.

geotrig

5€ congestion charge into the city ...oh no wait that wont help though ,but it could solve the parking problem

phog

geotrig wrote: »

5€ congestion charge into the city ...oh no wait that wont help though ,but it could solve the parking problem

There's very little congestion in Limerick compared to other cities and there really isn't a parking problem other than illegal parking though on street parking can be difficult to find at times.

kilburn

Not to mention the countless amounts of people who use housing estates as car parks.....

geotrig

Calm down It's was meant to be taken as tongue n cheek

mdmix

im not a big fan of the NDR as it increases sprawl, but UL will not allow traffic to travel from Clare to Castletroy. This would reduce traffic coming from either direction on the dublin road but would dramatically increase traffic flow through UL, making things worse from their perspective.

There is the potential to build a car park on the north side of campus with the only entry/exit to Clare, meaning commuters would have to walk 15 mins to main campus. This could reduce the traffic around Castletroy but i could only see it as being a temporary measure. UL has went from 5 - 15k students in the last 15 years as is continuing to grow as is the surrounding area. Also, I'm told by staff that UL did run a park and ride shuttle from the Burlington industrial estate to north campus a few years back but it was cancelled due to lack of demand - so potentially this plan may not be enough.

If the above were to be successful it would have to be part of a major transport project involving continuous bus lanes from city centre to UL, cycle lanes from city centre to canal/river path to UL, and reopening of the black bridge to pedestrian/cyclist. Additional student beds either on campus or in the immediate vicinity of a bus stop would be a major plus. While i would much prefer something like this, i feel its beyond LCC.

Iang87

Well Lads,

Slightly off topic but has anyone any idea when the slip road by groody onto the Tipperary road going to open. Its been ready for at least a week

zulutango

The thing is that if there's 140 million to spend then there's far more sensible, more effective and less impacting projects than the LNDR. The idea that you solve traffic issues by building more roads is very backward.

geotrig

The idea you can solve it all without building roads is a bit backward also .

please do enlighten me to all these feasible sensible projects that could fix our problems ?i am genuinely interested !

I still think heavy freight on the corbally road is just too much and that goes for most residential areas that dont have roads for it .

Reputable Rog

Iang87 wrote: »

Well Lads,

Slightly off topic but has anyone any idea when the slip road by groody onto the Tipperary road going to open. Its been ready for at least a week

?

Iang87

Reputable Rog wrote: »

?

next to the new Northern Trust building as you come from Groody across to roundabout by B&Q.

I know this isnt the discussion but you lads seem to know what ye are talking about