Limerick Northern Distributor Road Plan

phog

If the council are even remotely interested in pedestrianising O'Connell St they'll have to get this road up & running.

If they don't want you going through the city then they'll have to give access to get around it.

marno21

phog wrote: »

If the council are even remotely interested in pedestrianising O'Connell St they'll have to get this road up & running.

If they don't want you going through the city then they'll have to give access to get around it.

This is a key point.

As long as O'Connell Street is a thoroughfare then it'll be difficult to ban cars from it.

The other issue with the NDR is it could shift traffic to facilitate toll dodging. If there is a drop in traffic volumes through the tunnel the state has to make up the difference so this will have to be ironed out also.

Daithi07

Does anyone know what the plan for the new road crossing on the old cratloe road and knocklasheen. Flyover or roundabouts? Thanks

Cookiemunster

Daithi07 wrote: »

Does anyone know what the plan for the new road crossing on the old cratloe road and knocklasheen. Flyover or roundabouts? Thanks

It will be a urban dual carriage way with cycle lanes and footpaths and the junctions will be roundabouts. There are maps on the LCCC site, but it seems to be down right now.

Reputable Rog

Daithi07 wrote: »

Does anyone know what the plan for the new road crossing on the old cratloe road and knocklasheen. Flyover or roundabouts? Thanks

Tunnel

Cookiemunster

There's to be an 'Information Afternoon' about the Coonagh to Knockalisheen section next Monday in the Greenhills. https://www.limerick.ie/council/newsroom/news/update-work-coonagh-knockalisheen-road

Cookiemunster

Cookiemunster wrote: »

There's to be an 'Information Afternoon' about the Coonagh to Knockalisheen section next Monday in the Greenhills. https://www.limerick.ie/council/newsroom/news/update-work-coonagh-knockalisheen-road

I had a quick peek in here. They're nearly finished phase 1, but the new embankment will need to be left to settle for 6-9 months before any construction can take place. They hope that phase 2 will begin next spring with an 18 month build time. So mid to late 2020 for the full scheme to be opened.

mdmix

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I had a quick peek in here. They're nearly finished phase 1, but the new embankment will need to be left to settle for 6-9 months before any construction can take place. They hope that phase 2 will begin next spring with an 18 month build time. So mid to late 2020 for the full scheme to be opened.

Am I wrong or does that seem wildly optimistic? Even setting aside the inevitable objections. Do they even have funding beyond phase 1?

Cookiemunster

mdmix wrote: »

Am I wrong or does that seem wildly optimistic? Even setting aside the inevitable objections. Do they even have funding beyond phase 1?

We're talking about the Coonagh to Knockalisheen part. Phase 1 is under construction and phase 2 to start next year. Planning and funding was secured years ago.

Glenomra

This is confusing. This phase two above refers to part two of the limerick distributor road Phase one, coonagh to knockalisheen. its like something out of Samuel Becket. This information night has nothing to do with the proposed Phase Two Road - knockalisheen to Lisnagry road which isn't even on the government ten year plan and imo never likely to be constructed in its entirety. The Shannon river crossing part of it, across a floodplain, is quite simply a non runner, though I accept that's a personal though informed opinion. I hope that clarifies what the current information night is about, namely coonagh to knockalisheen road, phase one of which is under construction and phase two of which will see the completion of that stretch of road.

mdmix

Yes thanks, that makes sense now. 4 years for a 2k stretch of road, that sounds more like limerick council.

Summerrose75

Does anyone know if plans are underway for phase 2 of this project, continuing to the Mackey roundabout.

73hdkgo

Summerrose75 wrote: »

Does anyone know if plans are underway for phase 2 of this project, continuing to the Mackey roundabout.

Clare CoCo provide summary updates on Phase 2 Knockalisheen to Mackey Roundabout every month, in their Chief Executive Reports under the Capital Projects section.

https://www.clarecoco.ie/your-council/about-the-council/chief-executive-reports/

73hdkgo

73hdkgo wrote: »

Clare CoCo provide summary updates on Phase 2 Knockalisheen to Mackey Roundabout every month, in their Chief Execuative Reports under the Capital Projects section.

https://www.clarecoco.ie/your-council/about-the-council/chief-executive-reports/

"Limerick Northern Distributor Road (Phase 2) – Project appraisal is nearing completion which will be followed by the preliminary design stage during the summer. The Preliminary Design phase facilitates the design of the new road within the route corridor which is now reflected in both the Clare and Limerick Development Plans."

damowill

ya its a long way from happening in my opinion. Especially with Clare County Council proposing a new 'town' on the Clare side of UL which Limerick County Council are not too happy with. That new town has no chance with the current road infrastructure in that area.
And LCC would basically be looking for grants for the new road, to the benefit of CCC and their new venture. I dont think they would be too inclined to push for it...

thesteve

damowill wrote: »

Especially with Clare County Council proposing a new 'town' on the Clare side of UL

Can you point me in the direction of any info on this topic by any chance?

73hdkgo

This is the only publication I've seen on it.

https://www.clarecoco.ie/planning/news/council-promotes-europe-s-first-21st-century-university-town.html

johnnyryan89

thesteve wrote: »

Can you point me in the direction of any info on this topic by any chance?

From the Clare Herald:

Clare County Council is seeking government approval to designate the University of Limerick (UL) campus in County Clare and the hinterland of the campus as an economic development zone with the capacity to generate 3,500 jobs.

Elected Members and the Clare County Council Economic Development SPC today backed the South Clare Economic Strategic Development Zone (SDZ) proposal, which has been targeted and zoned in successive Clare County Development Plans.

The Local Authority says the SDZ will be Europe’s first 21st Century University Town providing for a full range of living, working, amenity, social, cultural and recreational spaces integrated with a range of University facilities, including teaching, learning and research. The SDZ also will include the redevelopment and integration of the Errinagh canal, thereby providing the final inland waterway link between Lough Erne in County Fermanagh and Limerick City as well as the Shannon Estuary.



University of Limerick President, Dr Des Fitzgerald, said: “University of Limerick is delighted to support Clare County Council’s application to Government for the establishment of this Strategic Development Zone (SDZ) adjacent to the north campus of the university. UL works closely with both Clare County Council and Limerick City and County Council to fulfil its strategic development responsibilities in the Mid West. This designation would position UL as the first university to participate in an economic SDZ, complementing our longstanding commitment to the economic development of our region.”



“A strategic development of this scale, in a position so close to and including the university, would enhance our world-class educational and research proposition, would supplement our ongoing relationships with enterprise, industry and community, and would further establish UL as a hub for innovation.

“The announcement of the SDZ plan by Clare County Council is another milestone in the story of UL’s transformative impact on the economy of the Mid West and we look forward to the implementation of this over the coming years,” added Dr Fitzgerald.

Liam Conneally, Director of Economic Development, said: “Under this SDZ designation the site has the capacity to become a game changer both regionally and nationally. Orderly, planned development as envisaged in the legislation enabling designation as a Strategic Development Zone will see the site generate 3,500 jobs in addition to the employment generated in construction and spin-off. Investment in both foreign and indigenous industry will partner with the University in expansion, placement, research and careers.”

“The impact on Shannon Airport will be significant as the site’s industrial population focuses on international partnerships with the United States, Europe and the East. From a European perspective this is a project of scale. From a national perspective this is an exemplar project enabling an early start to the balanced regional development strategy and creating an early win for the vision set out for the Limerick Metropolitan Area as outlined in the National Planning Framework and the National Development Plan,” said Mr. Conneally.

Clare County Council will submit a formal application to Government for the designation of the South Clare Economic Strategic Development Zone (SDZ) in the coming weeks. If the application is successful, a detailed masterplan for the area will be developed by the Local Authority, in conjunction with UL, local landowners and other stakeholders.

Glenomra

I posted my opinion of the proposed road previously. Apologies for re-posting but my opinion hasn't changed and new posters might find it useful or not!!!

it is understandable that people want to see the present Corbally traffic alleviated and would like to see the Distributor road being built. The problem with relying on that road is that people will have to wait at least a decade and almost certainly much longer to see it constructed. I am not an engineer or claim to be an expert on the road but i am well informed on it -having read every single page of the thousands of pages compiled by the planners on the road. sad, i know !. I am sharing a little of what i have learnt. people can accept or not.
Planners decided on a large road arc to bring as much land as possible within its orbit, for UL, housing and industrial purposes and avoiding built up areas to lessen opposition to the proposed road. Two problems arose, one outside of their control, one self-inflicted. The ESB refused permission for the road to cross over the headrace, over their earthen and concrete banks, warning of the danger of 'catastrophic' flooding if the banks were undermined by pile driving etc. Consequently the road has to through the outer part Parteen Village over the Tail-race an important ecological site. Many people in Parteen probably welcome the new road but enough people are angry at the idea of the proposed four lane dual-carriageway for the road to become a political issue there. However, this was not the planners fault. The second one is. They propose building the road through the Springfield floodplain across to Lisnagry - the same floodplain in which houses have been flooded [clonlare flooding] with so much negative publicity. They could have crossed the Shannon in other locations without affecting a floodplain but they went for the jugular. huge mistake imo. The contractors testing the soil in 2015 in Garraun townland had to go to record depths nationally to reach bedrock - from the accumulation of alluvial soil over millenia. To build a crossing on the Shannon at this point will involve enormous construction costs across almost two miles of this terrain. I am not detailing the objections from the Lisnagry end or the negative effects the road would have on the tunnel finances, which taxpayers subsidise, plus ecolological concerns re potential damage to a Special Area of Conservation, the alluvail site at the proposed Mulcair crossing etc etc. I am just highlighting how big a project this road will be. Certainly engineers can build it plus put in the banks to control flooding etc etc but it will be an enormousy expensive project, those in the know say a quarter of a billion - very difficult for any department to justivy on economic grounds. There is no point in pretending that it can be built within anything less than ten years - all going 'swimmingly well'. What causes some confusion, is that there is also Distributor Road Phase 1, which is due to start soon -Coonagh to Moylish. A friend of mine was ecstatic when he read in a local paper that the Distributor Road was about to be built within the next two years. I won't repeat his response when he heard that he would have to wait at least a decade for Distributor Road 2. If people want a solution tot he present traffic difficulties don't put all your faith in this road.

zulutango

It's budgeted at 140 million euro (probably an underestimate).

It would be far more beneficial for Limerick if that was put into bus and bike infrastructure.

mdmix

The road and the proposed town in Clare could make welcome additions to the city, if properly planned. Unfortunately that’s not likely. Its clear that both limerick and Clare councils are thinking short term gains based on flawed thinking of the past. Phase 1 of this road is barely started and limerick council are already planning 800 houses along it, this is just the start. The road isint about reducing journey times or “building a knowledge corridor”, it’s about opening up cheap land for development. If phase 2 is built it will make congestion worse, not better. We’re 4 months on from the national Development plan which allocated Cork and Galway 200 million each for public transport, and no word from Limerick council on where we stand on this. I thought there would be uproar from councilors that we have no funds allocated yet, but just silence. You could be forgiven for thinking they don’t want the money.

Clare council are just as bad in their planning, they can somehow come to the figure of 3500 jobs in their press release but cannot come up with a population figure or even a give an idea of the proposed site area/size. They were well able to throw around buzz words like urban living but didn’t even mention transportation, so presumably those who live there will drive to work in Castletroy I.e to the technology park or UL.

pigtown

I agree. The university town would be a terrible idea for Limerick, great for Clare County Council though.

johnnyryan89

pigtown wrote: »

I agree. The university town would be a terrible idea for Limerick, great for Clare County Council though.

Or great for the mid west region. If the city council pull their heads out of their asses could be good for them too.

Cookiemunster

mdmix wrote: »

. Phase 1 of this road is barely started and limerick council are already planning 800 houses along it, this is just the start.

Aren't they planned for Mungret?

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

Or great for the mid west region. If the city council pull their heads out of their asses could be good for them too.

The government needs to grow a pair of balls and abolish the counties as the local authorities and reorganise around the cities like the UK did in the 70s and 80s. The amalgamation of the councils was just a fudge that only half fixed Limericks planning issues. The whole idea that parts of Clare that are suburbs of Limerick can't be run from Limerick, because of historical GAA loyalties (which was one of the main objections to the boundary extension into Clare) is ridiculous.

Limerick, Galway, Cork and Waterford should be in charge of all of their suburbs and hinterlands regardless of which county they're in.

pigtown

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

Or great for the mid west region. If the city council pull their heads out of their asses could be good for them too.

No, the mid-west region can only compete with a strong Limerick city as its engine. Bleeding development out of it will be detrimental in the long term.

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The government needs to grow a pair of balls and abolish the counties as the local authorities and reorganise around the cities like the UK did in the 70s and 80s. The amalgamation of the councils was just a fudge that only half fixed Limericks planning issues. The whole idea that parts of Clare that are suburbs of Limerick can't be run from Limerick, because of historical GAA loyalties (which was one of the main objections to the boundary extension into Clare) is ridiculous.

Limerick, Galway, Cork and Waterford should be in charge of all of their suburbs and hinterlands regardless of which county they're in.

Absolutely. County boundaries are a ridiculous basis for effective and efficient governance but there's no way in hell it will change in the foreseeable future.

marno21

This new town idea on the Clare side of UL is total nonsense and should not be entertained. More sprawl is not the solution, any development like that should be encouraged onto the many brownfield sites near the city centre.

This Northern Distributor Road plan will only be of some merit if it is connected directly to the M7 with a proper junction. It'll be a total waste of money if its tacked onto one of the roundabouts on the Dublin Road.

zulutango

Cookiemunster wrote:

The government needs to grow a pair of balls and abolish the counties as the local authorities and reorganise around the cities like the UK did in the 70s and 80s. The amalgamation of the councils was just a fudge that only half fixed Limericks planning issues. The whole idea that parts of Clare that are suburbs of Limerick can't be run from Limerick, because of historical GAA loyalties (which was one of the main objections to the boundary extension into Clare) is ridiculous.

Limerick, Galway, Cork and Waterford should be in charge of all of their suburbs and hinterlands regardless of which county they're in.

We agree on something at last.

johnnyryan89

pigtown wrote: »

No, the mid-west region can only compete with a strong Limerick city as its engine. Bleeding development out of it will be detrimental in the long term.

Well unless the city council pull the finger out then that's what will happen, instead of stopping development because it might harm the city the city should be upping development and bettering its infrastructure to go along with developments like this.

zulutango

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

Well unless the city council pull the finger out then that's what will happen, instead of stopping development because it might harm the city the city should be upping development and bettering its infrastructure to go along with developments like this.

Not sure what you mean here. I think we should definitely be stopping development that will harm the city.

zulutango

marno21 wrote: »

This Northern Distributor Road plan will only be of some merit if it is connected directly to the M7 with a proper junction. It'll be a total waste of money if its tacked onto one of the roundabouts on the Dublin Road.

I think even at that the merit is questionable given that there is a way around the city already. The apparent justification is little more than to solve a traffic congestion problem in UL and Corbally, but I'd argue there are much, much less expensive ways to do that. On that basis alone it isn't justifiable. And then, further to that, it will have a huge negative impact by promoting sprawl and pulling growth away from the city. Sprawl will kill Limerick's and the Midwest's chances of being a major growth area, and car-centric infrastructure like the NDR goes hand in hand with sprawl.