Limerick Northern Distributor Road Plan

damowill

Glenomra wrote: »

FYI. interesting experiment ongoing involving UL traffic management. Starting yesterday and running for a few weeks I think, Ul are releasing, 100 cars daily - the time frame and figure is unconfirmed- on to the Gillogue road [Burllington factory] to Larkin's Cross. this enables these Clare-bound cars get home much quicker. Supervised yesterday by gardai and their own personnel. The main problem lies with the old canal\Blackwater bridges. Probably an acceptance by UL that the Northern Distributor Road does not offer a solution to their traffic problems, at least for the next ten years. The amount of time within which the new roadd could be built allowing for everything going their way, planning, funding, lack of court appeals re floodplain etc. If UL were to build a bridge across the canal\blackwater linking the Gillogue road wiht their campus they could alleviate their congestion within two years. Every time I suggest same, I am told that UL cannot use the present Gillogue road. Yesterday, and this experiment proves that they can. Maybe the penny has dropped with UL. There is no need for a dual carriageway, destroying both a village and a Special Area of Conservation. use the existing infrastructure.

It would alleviate traffic im sure but they closed off access to that side of UL for a reason. The entire road infrastructure is inadequate so they would have to do more than just build a bridge. The existing roads are mere country lanes with just enough room for 1 car not to mind a van or lorry. The onus is on Clare County Council to improve this and to do so would require taking land from farmers in the area and dipping deep into their pockets. I'm sure they have been down this route before and would be met with fierce resistance from the locals living in the area.

Even if they did, there would probably be a traffic jam from the Pavilion all the way to Larkins Cross because not only would UL drivers use it but also those working in Castletroy & the National technology park.

If they were to open it up, it would have to be with a barrier with card machine so use is only for those working/studying in UL and not sure that is feasible.

Glenomra

interesting reply but the fact is the width existing Gillogue Route is far wider than the current road. This road was initially widened in the 1970s to allow lorry traffic access the enormous Burlington Fabric factory at Gillogue. Literally, hundreds of lorries used this road daily for decades, exporting cloth to destinations all over Europe plus cars for over 800 workers, circa 2,000 trips a day. Drive down the road and a casual observation will show that the field boundaries are far in off the road. there is no need to acquire any further land for road widening. Clare County Council subsequently allowed vegetation to encroach and consequently it is a relatively narrow road today. All that is required is some simple road works. Clare Council do not want this road to be redeveloped as it would negate their efforts to develop the nonsensical Distributor Road. Rather than giving commuters an attainable access road they concentrate on trying to develop the Unattainable [at least in my opinion].

A2LUE42

Glenomra wrote: »

interesting reply but the fact is the width existing Gillogue Route is far wider than the current road. This road was initially widened in the 1970s to allow lorry traffic access the enormous Burlington Fabric factory at Gillogue. Literally, hundreds of lorries used this road daily for decades, exporting cloth to destinations all over Europe plus cars for over 800 workers, circa 2,000 trips a day. Drive down the road and a casual observation will show that the field boundaries are far in off the road. there is no need to acquire any further land for road widening.  Clare County Council subsequently allowed vegetation to encroach and consequently it is a relatively narrow road today. All that is required is some simple road works. Clare Council do not want this road to be redeveloped as it would negate their efforts to develop the nonsensical Distributor Road. Rather than giving commuters an attainable access road they concentrate on trying to develop the Unattainable [at least in my opinion].

You forgot all the buses that used to bring workers to the factory too..

Glenomra

the fact that the few buses using the road could access it so easily proves my point that the road is plenty wide. Why doesn't the university introduce a few buses on it now, to allow staff\students quick access from UL.

zulutango

The solution to UL's traffic problems should not cost 140 million euro, which is the budgeted cost of the Northern Distributor Road. Put that money into sustainable transport infrastructure in Limerick and you will make it a fundamentally better, more prosperous city. On economic grounds alone the NDR doesn't come close to making sense.

Whats happening

Gillogue from Larkins is not the full journey.. That road is plenty wide bar a single narrow point.. The challange is the last mile from prior Gillogue factory or Kidstown to back of UL is very narrow including two narrow bridge that can only fit 1 car at a time.. That road beyond the bridges would only be able to take one way traffic without major work to widen

Reputable Rog

Glenomra wrote: »

interesting reply but the fact is the width existing Gillogue Route is far wider than the current road. This road was initially widened in the 1970s to allow lorry traffic access the enormous Burlington Fabric factory at Gillogue. Literally, hundreds of lorries used this road daily for decades, exporting cloth to destinations all over Europe plus cars for over 800 workers, circa 2,000 trips a day. Drive down the road and a casual observation will show that the field boundaries are far in off the road. there is no need to acquire any further land for road widening. Clare County Council subsequently allowed vegetation to encroach and consequently it is a relatively narrow road today. All that is required is some simple road works. Clare Council do not want this road to be redeveloped as it would negate their efforts to develop the nonsensical Distributor Road. Rather than giving commuters an attainable access road they concentrate on trying to develop the Unattainable [at least in my opinion].

Hardly decades, it was open less than 10 years. You are right about Clare County Council allowing roads to narrow naturally, particularly in East Clare.
Drove that road at the weekend and was shocked at how narrow it has become.

Glenomra

Whats happening wrote: »

Gillogue from Larkins is not the full journey.. That road is plenty wide bar a single narrow point.. The challange is the last mile from prior Gillogue factory or Kidstown to back of UL is very narrow including two narrow bridge that can only fit 1 car at a time.. That road beyond the bridges would only be able to take one way traffic without major work to widen

agree completely. However, I can't see why the Clare Council can't build a bridge from Burlington across the canal to the UL campus. Very modest cost relative tot he hundreds of millions the Distributor road would cost, if ever built.

Cookiemunster

Glenomra wrote: »

agree completely. However, I can't see why the Clare Council can't build a bridge from Burlington across the canal to the UL campus. Very modest cost relative tot he hundreds of millions the Distributor road would cost, if ever built.

It's costing €40m to build a new bridge at Killaloe. It might well be cheaper than the NDR, but it would not be a modest cost by any means.

Whats happening

But the NDR with all its Pro's and Con's isn't a just a UL solution, it's a solution to the traffic situation that exists where massive volumes of cars / buses and trucks coming from Clare through Corbally to head towards the Dublin road direction, and some will say its not a solution, but will make things worse.

But if looking to tackle the bigger traffic issue, any bridge / road would need to be built from Gillogue all the way to the Dublin road to have any impact, if it only facilitates UL Staff and students then the return for the investment will be limited.

Glenomra

The Bridge at Killaloe is crossing the Shannon not the canal\Blackwater at Gillogue.

damowill

Glenomra wrote: »

interesting reply but the fact is the width existing Gillogue Route is far wider than the current road. This road was initially widened in the 1970s to allow lorry traffic access the enormous Burlington Fabric factory at Gillogue. Literally, hundreds of lorries used this road daily for decades, exporting cloth to destinations all over Europe plus cars for over 800 workers, circa 2,000 trips a day. Drive down the road and a casual observation will show that the field boundaries are far in off the road. there is no need to acquire any further land for road widening. Clare County Council subsequently allowed vegetation to encroach and consequently it is a relatively narrow road today. All that is required is some simple road works. Clare Council do not want this road to be redeveloped as it would negate their efforts to develop the nonsensical Distributor Road. Rather than giving commuters an attainable access road they concentrate on trying to develop the Unattainable [at least in my opinion].

As just mentioned, the road from the bridges to UL is where the road improvements would need to be made. Indeed it would be far cheaper than the NDR but the north side campus could be in gridlock if the number of cars in and out were not controlled.

Perhaps instead of (or along with) the road upgrade, they could use the car park at the Burlington Fabric factory, and use it as a park & ride, build a bicycle station and cycle lane & walk lane to UL. At least then it would be somewhat controlled. But what you dont want is someone, say working in Hamilton House in the Technology Park driving up through Plassey Road, through the campus and out Gillogue in the evening to get home.

zulutango

Whats happening wrote: »

But the NDR with all its Pro's and Con's isn't a just a UL solution, it's a solution to the traffic situation that exists where massive volumes of cars / buses and trucks coming from Clare through Corbally to head towards the Dublin road direction, and some will say its not a solution, but will make things worse.

But if looking to tackle the bigger traffic issue, any bridge / road would need to be built from Gillogue all the way to the Dublin road to have any impact, if it only facilitates UL Staff and students then the return for the investment will be limited.

I would be very surprised if a qualified, accredited transport planner would see the LNDR as a good solution to the problem.

phog

Glenomra wrote: »

FYI. interesting experiment ongoing involving UL traffic management. Starting yesterday and running for a few weeks I think, Ul are releasing, 100 cars daily - the time frame and figure is unconfirmed- on to the Gillogue road [Burllington factory] to Larkin's Cross. this enables these Clare-bound cars get home much quicker. Supervised yesterday by gardai and their own personnel. The main problem lies with the old canal\Blackwater bridges. Probably an acceptance by UL that the Northern Distributor Road does not offer a solution to their traffic problems, at least for the next ten years. The amount of time within which the new roadd could be built allowing for everything going their way, planning, funding, lack of court appeals re floodplain etc. If UL were to build a bridge across the canal\blackwater linking the Gillogue road wiht their campus they could alleviate their congestion within two years. Every time I suggest same, I am told that UL cannot use the present Gillogue road. Yesterday, and this experiment proves that they can. Maybe the penny has dropped with UL. There is no need for a dual carriageway, destroying both a village and a Special Area of Conservation. use the existing infrastructure.

You've confirmed yourself the flow was controlled, much easier then for the Gillogue road to cope with that sort of traffic than what the NDR is planned to carry.

Also do UL own enough land to build a bridge and road to get you direct from their campus to the Gillogue road at or near the old Burlingotn Factory - I don't think they do.

And of course there's no guarantee anything UL will want to build will be exempt for planning objections and delays.

BobMc

This is an interesting development, the no. 1 thing UL will want to avoid and also Clare Co. Co. is creating a rat run thru the campus. I think UL missed the boat and probably should have purchased Burlington in years gone past would probably have secured it for a good price too. I agree with another poster, some more formal park and ride scheme up that direction would help ease some of UL's traffic problems, But in saying that it would have to be before the two hump back bridges

BoardAtWork

BobMc wrote: »

This is an interesting development, the no. 1 thing UL will want to avoid and also Clare Co. Co. is creating a rat run thru the campus. I think UL missed the boat and probably should have purchased Burlington in years gone past would probably have secured it for a good price too. I agree with another poster, some more formal park and ride scheme up that direction would help ease some of UL's traffic problems, But in saying that it would have to be before the two hump back bridges

It wouldn't be too difficult for any entrance on the North campus to require a valid student/staff ID card to gain access.

The real issue is getting from UL to Burlington. Only minor works would be required to join the campus by the Thomond student village to Burlington. However, I doubt that they would be able to get planning considering the house in the middle of the Blackwater would have valid objections.

phog

BoardAtWork wrote: »

It wouldn't be too difficult for any entrance on the North campus to require a valid student/staff ID card to gain access.

The real issue is getting from UL to Burlington. Only minor works would be required to join the campus by the Thomond student village to Burlington. However, I doubt that they would be able to get planning considering the house in the middle of the Blackwater would have valid objections.

The pass could only work for vehicles that have a student/employee on board, lets say I want to visit, drop or collect someone in UL that route then is a good a useless but again the NDR is not just to alleviate UL traffic congestion

carbonceiling

Googlemaps have recently updated their satellite imagery of limerick.

You can see the progress made on the Northern Distributor road phase 1

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.6783379,-8.6727167,1283m/data=!3m1!1e3

zulutango

It's clear that it is going to open up huge tracts of land in Southeast Clare for low density development. Indeed the Council agrees that this is one of the reasons to build it. Planning at its worst.

nim1bdeh38l2cw

zulutango wrote: »

It's clear that it is going to open up huge tracts of land in Southeast Clare for low density development. Indeed the Council agrees that this is one of the reasons to build it. Planning at its worst.

You wouldn't be satisfied unless we all lived in townships and walked to work. In our bare feet.

zulutango

Nah, I just want to live in a thriving city which can offer a good life and employment to its citizens. Bad planning works against that.

Reputable Rog

zulutango wrote: »

It's clear that it is going to open up huge tracts of land in Southeast Clare for low density development. Indeed the Council agrees that this is one of the reasons to build it. Planning at its worst.

Small matter of the NPF, the RSES, the Limerick MASP and of course the NTA and ABP.
Coming the end of low density development in areas like this.

phog

carbonceiling wrote: »

Googlemaps have recently updated their satellite imagery of limerick.

You can see the progress made on the Northern Distributor road phase 1

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.6783379,-8.6727167,1283m/data=!3m1!1e3

I hope they get a move on and complete the full road. East Clare and Limerick are crying out for it.

Cookiemunster

zulutango wrote: »

It's clear that it is going to open up huge tracts of land in Southeast Clare for low density development. Indeed the Council agrees that this is one of the reasons to build it. Planning at its worst.

Actually this section of the road has got nothing to do with any of that. It was mandated by Regeneration to open up Moyross so that there was more than one way in or out.

It was originally planned as the Coonagh to Knockalisheen Road. The LNDR was tacked on at a later date.

zulutango

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Actually this section of the road has got nothing to do with any of that. It was mandated by Regeneration to open up Moyross so that there was more than one way in or out.

It was originally planned as the Coonagh to Knockalisheen Road. The LNDR was tacked on at a later date.

I know that. I wasn't referring to the first Phase, but to the LNDR through SE Clare.

zulutango

phog wrote: »

I hope they get a move on and complete the full road. East Clare and Limerick are crying out for it.

Unlikely to ever happen.

phog

zulutango wrote: »

Unlikely to ever happen.

I reckon it will, maybe not in the short term but it happen.

lazyman

Whereabouts will the new road join the knocklasheen road or does it flyover it?

phog

lazyman wrote: »

Whereabouts will the new road join the knocklasheen road or does it flyover it?

Somewhere between Bateman Park and the Direct Provision Centre

I doubt it will have a flyover but I don't know

Map

damowill

What does Phase 1 of the NDR road actually achieve? Cant see much usage and not sure where its going to alleviate traffic