Limerick Northern Distributor Road Plan

LeoD

topper75 wrote: »

Do you know anything about the costs of running a car?
People aren't buying them for the craic.
Driving around on clogged roads isn't done for fun.

You make it sound like a car is lazy option that you can easily coax people away from. Reduce volumes? what does that mean.

We're a two car family and overly dependent on our cars for everything which is why I want to see both local and national government seriously tackle this issue. As someone who uses a car for nearly 99% of my mileage, I would prefer if the LA stopped feeding everyone's habit (ie: providing more roads to drive to more dispersed amenities) and instead had a 40 year vision of where we need to be and started ploughing money into sustainable transport options. I drive to Citywest every week and the motorway widening project going on around Naas is depressing. Not only are they adding new lanes but also a new exit to access Kerry Group's Global Centre (and all the industrial land around it). This will only invite more and more traffic onto the M7 and further increase our car dependency.

Reduce volumes? That means reducing the number of trips made by car from 65% to 45% as set out in government policy. To do that, instead of driving so much, we use another form of transport. It doesn't mean getting rid of your car, just not using it for everything.

johnmolloy554

LeoD wrote: »

It doesn't mean getting rid of your car, just not using it for everything.

I see your point but as I'm a 15 minute drive from Limerick City Centre on a Saturday morning, there is no way I'm walking to the bus stop with children, waiting there for a bus and then enduring a journey as long as my car journey would have been. Oh, and then do it again on the way home.

I have lived in London and used public transport everywhere I went. Why? Because it was more convenient and FASTER. You need this to happen before more people like me will give up their cars.

keane2097

johnmolloy554 wrote: »

I see your point but as I'm a 15 minute drive from Limerick City Centre on a Saturday morning, there is no way I'm walking to the bus stop with children, waiting there for a bus and then enduring a journey as long as my car journey would have been. Oh, and then do it again on the way home.

LeoD wrote: »

It doesn't mean getting rid of your car, just not using it for everything.

.

LeoD

johnmolloy554 wrote: »

I see your point but as I'm a 15 minute drive from Limerick City Centre on a Saturday morning, there is no way I'm walking to the bus stop with children, waiting there for a bus and then enduring a journey as long as my car journey would have been. Oh, and then do it again on the way home.

I wouldn't blame you, or anyone else, for choosing to drive over the other modes of transport we have today. I would do the same if going with the family into town - I'd probably cycle if I was going in on my own but I'd only be doing it out of principle because the cycle infra between my house and town is either very poor or non-existent (I live about 6km from city centre). If we had safe cycleways leading into the city, cycling would become an option for my kids when they get to 7-8. If there was a frequent and direct PT option with bike parking heading into town that could also be an option. These things will never be an option however unless we stop pouring all our money into roads and motor traffic.

topper75

A political dream that refuses to accept realities of peoples' lives will remain just that, a dream.

People live where they live and they work where they work. I myself make EVERY journey of the week by car (bar a Sunday morning leisure trip on the bike around country roads).

Nothing is going to change this. There are thousands and thousands just like me who need congestion relief from their daily commutes. You can't wish this problem away. We need more roads, and roads with greater capacity. Any politician who attempts to pretend otherwise will never get any number next to their name by my pen.

phog

topper75 wrote: »

A political dream that refuses to accept realities of peoples' lives will remain just that, a dream.

People live where they live and they work where they work. I myself make EVERY journey of the week by car (bar a Sunday morning leisure trip on the bike around country roads).

Nothing is going to change this. There are thousands and thousands just like me who need congestion relief from their daily commutes. You can't wish this problem away. We need more roads, and roads with greater capacity. Any politician who attempts to pretend otherwise will never get any number next to their name by my pen.

The Green Party died a death a few elections ago - I really don't see them making a comeback in the short to medium term.

keane2097

What do we want? Congestion relief!
How do we want it? MORE CARS!

Mc Love

topper75 wrote: »

A political dream that refuses to accept realities of peoples' lives will remain just that, a dream.

People live where they live and they work where they work. I myself make EVERY journey of the week by car (bar a Sunday morning leisure trip on the bike around country roads).

Nothing is going to change this. There are thousands and thousands just like me who need congestion relief from their daily commutes. You can't wish this problem away. We need more roads, and roads with greater capacity. Any politician who attempts to pretend otherwise will never get any number next to their name by my pen.

No we dont need more roads or roads with greater capacity, see the link in my quote below:

Mc Love wrote: »

Another great article that states what the motoring lobby can't see
https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2015/11/californias-dot-admits-that-more-roads-mean-more-traffic/415245/

More roads will only add more congestion. Get a bike! Or use PT

kilburn

I dont buy this more roads more cars stuff.

You are always going to have roughly the same amount of people working and who can actually afford a car.

Where are all these cars going to come from to continue the current gridlock and back up the new ring road?

pigtown

kilburn wrote: »

I dont buy this more roads more cars stuff.

You are always going to have roughly the same amount of people working and who can actually afford a car.

Where are all these cars going to come from to continue the current gridlock and back up the new ring road?

From all of the new car-centric developments that will inevitably be built along it

panda100

phog wrote: »

The Green Party died a death a few elections ago - I really don't see them making a comeback in the short to medium term.

Their last candidate in the GE in Limerick, James Gaffney, was excellent imo. Far better ideas and intellect than Willie and Maurice combined.

Mc Love

kilburn wrote: »

I dont buy this more roads more cars stuff.

You are always going to have roughly the same amount of people working and who can actually afford a car.

Where are all these cars going to come from to continue the current gridlock and back up the new ring road?

Oh ok just disregard all the previous examples of this happening! People dont even use the tunnel when if they did, and free'd up more space for pedestrians and cyclists it would be much better and safer for those commuting to work in the city

Cookiemunster

kilburn wrote: »

I dont buy this more roads more cars stuff.

You are always going to have roughly the same amount of people working and who can actually afford a car.

Where are all these cars going to come from to continue the current gridlock and back up the new ring road?

I actually don't think it's more cars, it's that people are more likely to drive if the road is there, so more car journeys are taken. It would take them out of the city though.

Mc Love wrote: »

Oh ok just disregard all the previous examples of this happening! People dont even use the tunnel when if they did, and free'd up more space for pedestrians and cyclists it would be much better and safer for those commuting to work in the city

Not enough people use the tunnel because of the toll. Although this is a case of a road being built and not used, so I'm not sure how it backs up your argument

Mc Love

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Not enough people use the tunnel because of the toll. Although this is a case of a road being built and not used, so I'm not sure how it backs up your argument

You just backed up my argument, more people would use it if there was no toll.. less people would come through the shannon bridge if it was reduced to just two lanes to allow for proper cycle/pedestrian access

marno21

The M7 is carrying 42000 cars per day between the Rossbrien jn and the Ballysimon jn. Yet in peak times the Childers Road and Dubin Road routes through the city are also jammed. It's also up from 39k in 2016.

zulutango

marno21 wrote:

The M7 is carrying 42000 cars per day between the Rossbrien jn and the Ballysimon jn. Yet in peak times the Childers Road and Dubin Road routes through the city are also jammed. It's also up from 39k in 2016.

Build more roads, get more cars.

Berty

To be fair the Tunnel will have a Toll for a long time to come, when it reverts to the council ownership like the M50 did I doubt the council would pass up the lucrative income.

I pass through the Toll at 8:30 and 6pm everyday and it's pretty busy. Both operator plazas each morning each could have 10 cars each at them. The income every minute at peak times is very high.

If all those cars continued through the city then it would be mental. We're way past boom time traffic, ballysimon at around 6pm heading Dublin direction can often be stopped in both lanes because of tailbacks leaving at Ballysimon.

Had the tunnel not be there I would be heading in ballysimon road(drop wife off) down Roche's street, out condell road and on the return probably through meelick towards obriensbridge to cross to Newport.

I worked in Shannon 99+01 and I still remember the madness when i lived in the city. There was not tunnel, not even flyovers in Shannon. If anybody can remember Shannon access and exit it was terrible.

Cookiemunster

Berty wrote: »

I worked in Shannon 99+01 and I still remember the madness when i lived in the city. There was not tunnel, not even flyovers in Shannon. If anybody can remember Shannon access and exit it was terrible.

Yep, the Condell road backed up all the way out and the Ennis Rd a car park every evening. I remember times when it took nearly an hour to get from the Coonagh RAB to the river. And the same going in and out of Shannon. 4km tailbacks between Ballycasey and the industrial estate every morning and evening.

zulutango wrote: »

Build more roads, get more cars.

42,000 cars not using the city streets. Limerick wouldn't have had it's recovery if it didn't have these roads.

phog

panda100 wrote: »

Their last candidate in the GE in Limerick, James Gaffney, was excellent imo. Far better ideas and intellect than Willie and Maurice combined.

The constituents overwhelmingly rejected him and his ideas.

phog

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Yep, the Condell road backed up all the way out and the Ennis Rd a car park every evening. I remember times when it took nearly an hour to get from the Coonagh RAB to the river. And the same going in and out of Shannon. 4km tailbacks between Ballycasey and the industrial estate every morning and evening.



42,000 cars not using the city streets. Limerick wouldn't have had it's recovery if it didn't have these roads.

How many more cars could we remove from the city if this road was completed. I think it's a prerequisite to pedestrianising O'Connell St.

kilburn

Mc Love wrote:

Oh ok just disregard all the previous examples of this happening! People dont even use the tunnel when if they did, and free'd up more space for pedestrians and cyclists it would be much better and safer for those commuting to work in the city

The studies are all from places like California where car ownership is on the extreme side

Mc Love

Cookiemunster wrote: »

42,000 cars not using the city streets. Limerick wouldn't have had it's recovery if it didn't have these roads.

Hilarious to suggest that roads caused the city recovery. Yet more people wont use the tunnel, a bypass of the city. OH had to come into the city from Shannon yesterday and traffic was bumper to bumper, all the way from coonagh roundabout to the bridge. How many of those 42000 cars arrive at their destination in the city? If there were adequate cycle/public transport, you could take a lot of those cars off the road by reducing traffic lanes in the city, force people to use the tunnel.

kilburn wrote: »

The studies are all from places like California where car ownership is on the extreme side

I think you'll find car ownership is pretty extreme here too. It's only when you realise it, you'll wonder how you never saw it. Just look at the M50.

kilburn

Mc Love wrote:

I think you'll find car ownership is pretty extreme here too. It's only when you realise it, you'll wonder how you never saw it. Just look at the M50.

We are not talking about the m50 or California we are talking about a Limerick City Northern bypass which will never be gridlocked

phog

Mc Love wrote: »

Hilarious to suggest that roads caused the city recovery. Yet more people wont use the tunnel, a bypass of the city. OH had to come into the city from Shannon yesterday and traffic was bumper to bumper, all the way from coonagh roundabout to the bridge. How many of those 42000 cars arrive at their destination in the city? If there were adequate cycle/public transport, you could take a lot of those cars off the road by reducing traffic lanes in the city, force people to use the tunnel.

Are you suggesting people queued to drive into the city then back out again to join the motorway just to avoid the toll?

zulutango

kilburn wrote:

We are not talking about the m50 or California we are talking about a Limerick City Northern bypass which will never be gridlocked

Just as the south ring road is never gridlocked ..

Cookiemunster

Mc Love wrote: »

Hilarious to suggest that roads caused the city recovery. Yet more people wont use the tunnel, a bypass of the city. OH had to come into the city from Shannon yesterday and traffic was bumper to bumper, all the way from coonagh roundabout to the bridge. How many of those 42000 cars arrive at their destination in the city? If there were adequate cycle/public transport, you could take a lot of those cars off the road by reducing traffic lanes in the city, force people to use the tunnel.
.

Except I never suggested it caused the recovery, but it definitely aided it. If we didn't have the road network and guaranteed connectivity to ports and airports a lot of FDI wouldn't have come to Limerick. And I come in the Condell Rd every evening (including yesterday) a have never seen traffic backup up to the Coonagh RAB. And that's with the current road works on the Ennis Rd.

Also the 42K aren't all traveling to the city. Plassey/Annacotty and Raheen are at either end of this route. People who work in these areas and live in county Clare/Limerick/Tipp use the road to get to their jobs rather than going through the city. Extra cycling lanes won't change this.

Cookiemunster

phog wrote: »

Are you suggesting people queued to drive into the city then back out again to join the motorway just to avoid the toll?

People do actually use the Dock Rd/Condell Rd to avoid the toll. Just not as many as is being made out.

kilburn

zulutango wrote:

Just as the south ring road is never gridlocked ..

Where is the south ring road grid locked ?

Mc Love

kilburn wrote: »

We are not talking about the m50 or California we are talking about a Limerick City Northern bypass which will never be gridlocked

Yeah where they've added more roads, more lanes, and then still wonder why there's still traffic jams, and gridlock

phog wrote: »

Are you suggesting people queued to drive into the city then back out again to join the motorway just to avoid the toll?

Yep - they do so on a daily basis. Both ways. And some folk incorrectly use the left hand lane on the bridge to bypass the traffic in the correct right hand lane, further increasing the backlog in the right hand lane.

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Also the 42K aren't all traveling to the city. Plassey/Annacotty and Raheen are at either end of this route. People who work in these areas and live in county Clare/Limerick/Tipp use the road to get to their jobs rather than going through the city. Extra cycling lanes won't change this.

What road? The condell road? When they could use the tunnel to get to the other side of the city.

kilburn wrote: »

Where is the south ring road grid locked ?

Have you travelled on it at peak rush hour in the evening? Many times heading in the castletroy direction, is the traffic bumper to bumper from the Rosbrien overpass to the Ballysimon interchange.

damowill

Cookiemunster wrote: »

People do actually use the Dock Rd/Condell Rd to avoid the toll. Just not as many as is being made out.

i know people who work in castletroy and drive through the city to get home to parts of Clare and avoid the tunnel. I'm sure all students in UL use the same route

I'd be ok with the LNDR if it was cheaper and if Clare Co Co hadnt plans for a University town, which will significantly impact traffic in the region. It will initially ease traffic but overtime i can foresee problems

Cycle and bus lanes would encourage Limerick city people to cycle or use public transport, and discourage those that avoid the tunnel, from using the city rat run. Far cheaper than the LNDR to boot....